How will schools be able to go back in September?

daydorunrun

lulublue22 wrote: »

I actually think its nonsensical. Im in regular contact with my parents re online learning and issues arising from same. But updates re schools reopening / whats going to happen. No because Ive no idea until the dep issues guidelines re same. Now maybe I read it wrong but it seemed to me his issue with the principal was due to the principal not keeping parents informed of what is happening. We are in the middle of a global pandemic schools are closed and we are waiting on guidelines from the dep to reopen. I can image the uproar if any principal emailed the above. It would be seen as extremely condescending and patronising in the extreme.

Maybe I wasn't clear, my gripe was purely because of the tone and lack of any sort of acknowledgment of the current situation as regarding the kids needs for the next couple of months when sending a payment request for next year 3 months early.


I am in no way teacher bashing here either, this is down to a principle that is not a very good 'people person', she is by the way a brilliant educator. As I said before I don't need anybody to hold my hand here. Simple etiquette would normally dictate that if you were sending out a request for money early because of a very unusual situation you would also take the opportunity to wish people well, especially the kids because of the current situation, she just has a cold manner- I don't hold it against her as it really is a small thing and not making it into the whinge fest I was accused of.

There is way too much spikiness in here considering we all want the same thing.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Benimar wrote: »

Philip Nolan just said that as low as 1% could have had the virus in Ireland. He puts the maximum at 5%.

To use his exact words 'there is no immunity' if the virus starts to spread again.

I think they've proven that there is immunity in those previously infected but it's just a question of how long it lasts.

It's strange that Stockholm only had roughly 8% of population with antibodies from their sample and they didn't shut anything down.

I suppose we'll get a clearer picture from our own sample study in a couple of weeks.

kowloonkev

plodder wrote: »

If it weren't for other countries prepared to do these "experiments" then we wouldn't even know what we currently do about the rate of spreading among children. It was previously assumed (including by me) that children were super-spreaders and "petri-dishes". If every country followed us, then that would still be the conventional wisdom.

More importantly, the message coming from government consistently now is that we are going to have to live with the virus for a number of years. Widespread vaccine availability is still a long way off.

That means we are going to have to try things, and if they don't work, back off and try something else. Call it an experiment if you like.

Exactly. Of course Irish people already have a reputation for being cowardly and yet again the country is going to sit around and wait for other nations to play a hand and then we'll swoop in with what works and praise ourselves and judge the countries who got it wrong.

lulublue22

daydorunrun wrote: »

Maybe I wasn't clear, my gripe was purely because of the tone and lack of any sort of acknowledgment of the current situation as regarding the kids needs for the next couple of months when sending a payment request for next year 3 months early.


I am in no way teacher bashing here either, this is down to a principle that is not a very good 'people person', she is by the way a brilliant educator. As I said before I don't need anybody to hold my hand here. Simple etiquette would normally dictate that if you were sending out a request for money early because of a very unusual situation you would also take the opportunity to wish people well, especially the kids because of the current situation, she just has a cold manner- I don't hold it against her as it really is a small thing and not making it into the whinge fest I was accused of.

There is way too much spikiness in here considering we all want the same thing.

Then I misunderstood your post. Communication is badly needed during this time by both teachers and parents. Hopefully this is something that the principal may improve on over time.
In relation to spikiness I can only speak for myself . I find it demoralising and head wrecking the underlying anti teacher sentiment on boards in general and in particular by a cohort of posters on this thread. There are a number of posters who resort to anti teacher sentiment when any issues are raised. Allegations of bullying and toxic environment have been banded about when questioned on opinions which are posted as facts. Everyone is entitled to an opinion that does not make it a fact.
I find it frustrating as it inhibits any meaningful debate. Schools will need to return we need to do that in a way which will maximise teaching and learning while keeping everyone involved safe. At the end of the day most teachers are parents too - we are trying to do our best for our students while also ensuring our own children keep pace with work set. Not an easy task at all much like any other parent wfh.

kowloonkev

kandr10 wrote: »

I’m confident my child won’t be socially stunted though. She’s doing fine! I’m grateful for that. I know there’s plenty of kids, probably older than my own, who wouldn’t be coping as well. I also know I’m not in a minority though. I saw a couple of tv polls that indicated 80% of parents were happy to wait til sept and over 70% we’re happy at the rate at which restrictions were being eased. I know these are not official cso quality surveys or anything but it’s an indication. What have you seen to suggest most parents would want their kids back? Is it anecdotal?

Well nobody is going to know the impact on their children when they're at home without social experiences.

A poll might show 80% of people were happy to wait until September but did it show 80% would be unhappy to go back earlier? I'm not exactly sure how it was worded or if there were options. I have only anecdotal evidence so I wouldn't argue much over that.

Benimar

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

I think they've proven that there is immunity in those previously infected but it's just a question of how long it lasts.

It's strange that Stockholm only had roughly 8% of population with antibodies from their sample and they didn't shut anything down.

I suppose we'll get a clearer picture from our own sample study in a couple of weeks.

There may be immunity in those that had the virus, but with a minimum 95% of people not having had it, there is essentially no immunity in the community.

daydorunrun

lulublue22 wrote: »

Then I misunderstood your post. Communication is badly needed during this time by both teachers and parents. Hopefully this is something that the principal may improve on over time.
In relation to spikiness I can only speak for myself . I find it demoralising and head wrecking the underlying anti teacher sentiment on boards in general and in particular by a cohort of posters on this thread. There are a number of posters who resort to anti teacher sentiment when any issues are raised. Allegations of bullying and toxic environment have been banded about when questioned on opinions which are posted as facts. Everyone is entitled to an opinion that does not make it a fact.
I find it frustrating as it inhibits any meaningful debate. Schools will need to return we need to do that in a way which will maximise teaching and learning while keeping everyone involved safe. At the end of the day most teachers are parents too - we are trying to do our best for our students while also ensuring our own children keep pace with work set. Not an easy task at all much like any other parent wfh.

I am a joe soap, I've never worked as a teacher- I have chaired a PTA for 3 years so I may have a little more insight into the challenges of running a school than some. I have no problem in admitting that a teacher has a better idea than anybody else on the challenges and potential problems that might arise when trying to get kids back into the classroom. Having said that there are 1 or 2 on here (there always are!) that come off as dismissive when others try to make suggestions. I actually think the spikiness I was referring to is everywhere now (especially on boards), lockdown fatigue perhaps.

Hopefully one day soon we'll all look back and wonder what all the fuss was about, thankful that things panned out alright in the end!

morebabies

Does anyone know what other countries have done re:families with vulnerable members going back to school? My children are asthmatic, I'm asthmatic and going to be in my last trimester of pregnancy when the schools reopen. Nervous to say the least.

lulublue22

morebabies wrote: »

Does anyone know what other countries have done re:families with vulnerable members going back to school? My children are asthmatic, I'm asthmatic and going to be in my last trimester of pregnancy when the schools reopen. Nervous to say the least.

Unfortunately I don’t but I’m hoping it will be one of the areas that the dep will issue clear guidelines around. I’ve an asthmatic child and I’d love some clear guidance re her return to school and if my return will put her at risk.

eta I’m finding it difficult to source any definitive information on how at risk being asthmatic is. I find the whole thing confusing in terms of how at risk being asthmatic is if that makes sense.

Murple

kowloonkev wrote: »

Well nobody is going to know the impact on their children when they're at home without social experiences.

A poll might show 80% of people were happy to wait until September but did it show 80% would be unhappy to go back earlier? I'm not exactly sure how it was worded or if there were options. I have only anecdotal evidence so I wouldn't argue much over that.

The question that was asked was 'Should our schools open before September'. 18% said yes, 82% said no.
18,688 people voted.

plodder

My daughter, who is a primary teacher has asthma. So, we were worried about all of this, since asthma was assumed to be a risk category at the start. But, I remember reading somewhere that asthma sufferers haven't been hit harder than the general population, but the information is sketchy.

I would think that nobody is going to force children who their parents think are at risk to go back to school. I can't speak for teachers, but I think my daughter will go back (if she can).

Higgins5473

lulublue22 wrote: »

Unfortunately I don’t but I’m hoping it will be one of the areas that the dep will issue clear guidelines around. I’ve an asthmatic child and I’d love some clear guidance re her return to school and if my return will put her at risk.

eta I’m finding it difficult to source any definitive information on how at risk being asthmatic is. I find the whole thing confusing in terms of how at risk being asthmatic is if that makes sense.

I'm asthmatic and my 4 year old is severely asthmatic. I'm a teacher and my son is due to start school. There is very little conclusive information on anything with this disease at the moment. The Irish department of health (let alone dept of ed) will not have anything in terms of clear guidelines and risk regarding your child by September and if they do and you believe it you'd be very foolish. The demands on answers from supposedly intelligent people about this virus are bordering on ridiculous. The disease exists and is in its infancy, the instant answers and deliveries we are so used aren't going to happen.

morebabies

plodder wrote: »

My daughter, who is a primary teacher has asthma. So, we were worried about all of this, since asthma was assumed to be a risk category at the start. But, I remember reading somewhere that asthma sufferers haven't been hit harder than the general population, but the information is sketchy.

I would think that nobody is going to force children who their parents think are at risk to go back to school. I can't speak for teachers, but I think my daughter will go back (if she can).

I had a quick Google there, difficult to know since there are so many conflicting reports as so much is unknown. The 2 main points I picked up are: we're at no greater risk of catching it than anyone else, but, yes, it can trigger severe asthma symptoms in sufferers due to lung inflammation. Advice is to keep the asthma symptoms monitored and managed.

That could impact a lot of teachers / pupils then with moderate / severe asthma.

lulublue22

Higgins5473 wrote: »

I'm asthmatic and my 4 year old is severely asthmatic. I'm a teacher and my son is due to start school. There is very little conclusive information on anything with this disease at the moment. The Irish department of health (let alone dept of ed) will not have anything in terms of clear guidelines and risk regarding your child by September and if they do and you believe it you'd be very foolish. The demands on answers from supposedly intelligent people about this virus are bordering on ridiculous. The disease exists and is in its infancy, the instant answers and deliveries we are so used aren't going to happen.

I would hope that by August the dep will have guidelines around returning to school which will include provision for children / teenagers with underlying conditions. Dep of Health have already mentioned people with respiratory conditions including asthma as being in a higher risk category. A lot can change in terms of understanding this disease within the next 4 to 5 months. I will make my own decision based on dep guidelines and advice of my GP. The term I used I believe was guidelines not a personal risk assessment outlining in detail the risk to my particular child. You are free to accept not accept any guidelines outlined by the dep.

Higgins5473

lulublue22 wrote: »

You are free to accept not accept any guidelines outlined by the dep.

You are mixing up guidelines and directives, both have very different implications.

Teachers will get 'directives' to perform x,y and z. They will then have 'guidelines' on how to follow these directives.

How safe and how well these will be is anyone's guess and will be the same in September. So my point still is, expecting positive answers and reassurance by some dept of health/ed directive in late August will be at best; experimental, at worst; worthless. So stop kidding yourself that whatever they come up with will some kind of safeguard.

iamwhoiam

The NHS were advising only severe asthmatics to cocoon . They specified only those presently on oral steroids or recently needing oral steroids were in vulnerable category
That might be helpful to the posters who are worried

lulublue22

Higgins5473 wrote: »

You are mixing up guidelines and directives, both have very different implications.

Teachers will get 'directives' to perform x,y and z. They will then have 'guidelines' on how to follow these directives.

How safe and how well these will be is anyone's guess and will be the same in September. So my point still is, expecting positive answers and reassurance by some dept of health/ed directive in late August will be at best; experimental, at worst; worthless. So stop kidding yourself that whatever they come up with will some kind of safeguard.

I have no idea where you are getting the concept of reassurance and positive answers or that any guidelines will be totally risk free. That is not realistic at all. The dep will issue guidelines re returning to school informed by NPHET. It is not unreasonable to expect that these will include provision for children / teenagers with underlying health issues . At that stage it will be up to individual parents / teachers to make a decision based on their individual circumstances.
While I accept there will be an element of risk I sincerely doubt the dep of ed , health or NEPHT will willingly promote/ expect children / staff with underlying health conditions to return if there are serious concerns re the effects of covid 19.

I think at this stage we will have to agree to disagree.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

plodder wrote: »

My daughter, who is a primary teacher has asthma. So, we were worried about all of this, since asthma was assumed to be a risk category at the start. But, I remember reading somewhere that asthma sufferers haven't been hit harder than the general population, but the information is sketchy.

I would think that nobody is going to force children who their parents think are at risk to go back to school. I can't speak for teachers, but I think my daughter will go back (if she can).

They do have asthmatics listed in the high risk category so I think they will probably have separate guidelines for some groups like they have had throughout.

They have two degrees of risk by condition very high risk (cocooners) and high risk.

Asthmatics are specifically listed as high risk (but then severe respiratory conditions are very high risk so would depend on the severity of the asthma).

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/people-at-higher-risk.html

Seems like a bit of a minefield to try figure out how it's going to work for vulnerable people. I think some of it will probably come down to a personal decision and weighing up if the risk is acceptable to you. Hopefully by the time September comes we'll be in a good place and there won't be any major risk.

As far as I know approx 10% of the covid ICU admissions here had asthma as an underlying condition.

sideswipe

Disgusting what the ASTI are doing by not accepting a state indemnity in relation to LC grading. These are emergency times and it needs everyone to pull together. Colm O’Rourke saying on tv they have a policy of opposition, imagine if our frontline workers took this kind of stance when so much was asked of them during this pandemic.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

sideswipe wrote: »

Disgusting what the ASTI are doing by not accepting a state indemnity in relation to LC grading. These are emergency times and it needs everyone to pull together. Colm O’Rourke saying on tv they have a policy of opposition, imagine if our frontline workers took this kind of stance when so much was asked of them during this pandemic.

Unfortunately it's not surprising, deluded unions, really need a good dose of reality at this stage.

Disgraceful carry on and will leave a very bad taste, they'll have very little public support for anything like that given the circumstances that the entire country finds itself in.

There's a time and place and it's not now.

Windorah

sideswipe wrote: »

Disgusting what the ASTI are doing by not accepting a state indemnity in relation to LC grading. These are emergency times and it needs everyone to pull together. Colm O’Rourke saying on tv they have a policy of opposition, imagine if our frontline workers took this kind of stance when so much was asked of them during this pandemic.

How dare the ASTI ensure their members are not sued!!! The neck of them...

Windorah

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Unfortunately it's not surprising, deluded unions, really need a good dose of reality at this stage.

Disgraceful carry on and will leave a very bad taste, they'll have very little public support for anything like that given the circumstances that the entire country finds itself in.

There's a time and place and it's not now.

Have you actually read what the union are requesting??

daydorunrun

Windorah wrote: »

How dare the ASTI ensure their members are not sued!!! The neck of them...

Haven't been following it but have they not been offered indemnity by the state?

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Windorah wrote: »

How dare the ASTI ensure their members are not sued!!! The neck of them...

A state indemnity has been approved by government but no that's not enough, a union advising its members not to engage at a time like this is disgraceful (but like I said not at all surprising).

Everyone making sacrifices and pulling together all across the country. People risking their own lives and that of their families so they can care for others during the peak.

It's actually awful behaviour and people will remember it.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Windorah wrote: »

Have you actually read what the union are requesting??

TUI have accepted it and don't seem to have an issue.

Windorah

daydorunrun wrote: »

Haven't been following it but have they not been offered indemnity by the state?

Yes but that indemnity can be invoked and the teacher sued in his or her own right. The union is attempting to make that water tight and ensure no teacher can be sued due to predicted grading.

Windorah

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

A state indemnity has been approved by government but no that's not enough, a union advising its members not to engage at a time like this is disgraceful (but like I said not at all surprising).

Everyone making sacrifices and pulling together all across the country. People risking their own lives and that of their families so they can care for others during the peak.

It's actually awful behaviour and people will remember it.

Christ

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Windorah wrote: »

Christ

Imagine if nurses, doctors and healthcare workers took this stance.

Look out the window, the world has changed. Unfortunately there's not much time for union demands these days in any position.

Indemnity is good enough for one union but not for another, why is that?

Higgins5473

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

A state indemnity has been approved by government but no that's not enough, a union advising its members not to engage at a time like this is disgraceful (but like I said not at all surprising).

Everyone making sacrifices and pulling together all across the country. People risking their own lives and that of their families so they can care for others during the peak.

It's actually awful behaviour and people will remember it.

You're not only out of your mallet, you haven't the slightest breeze what you are on about. You're an embarrassment.

For a bit of variation, head over to the aviation thread and start giving pilots a load of abuse about why they aren't flying planes and give us a break for a bit.

daydorunrun

https://twitter.com/TonightVMTV/status/1263582228451332096?s=20