How will schools be able to go back in September?

wirelessdude01

JDxtra wrote: »

The schools have no intention of bringing students back. I've to go and collect books/art/belongings of my kids this week from our primary school as they are clearing out for the end of the school year.

Officially we aren't allowed open until the start of the new school year at the moment.

Would you prefer if we didn't allow you to come collect their belongings?

ldy4mxonucwsq6

JDxtra wrote: »

Because working parents are over stretched - I am working full time and being a parent for multiple primary school children. The expectation is that my normal paid work is completed, in addition I have to be a parent (of course) and spend time with the children - and also complete at least some school work with them (it's emailed to me weekly).

There are only so many hours in the day. This has already gone on for an extended period of time with doubt now cast on what will happen in September.

Between myself and my partner we can manage school holidays and occasional illnesses etc - but 5 months of no school (or more!) is pushing the limits.

I think this is the position for a lot of people across the country and while we juggle normally around school etc this has pushed many to the limit.

I can't work from home and neither can my partner so while we can try to work opposite shifts and take leave etc we'll eventually get to the point where its not possible to do that anymore.

No school, childcare or grandparents means that couples in a similar position, one of them will have to take a hit and probably lose their job if this continues.

That equals more people on jobseekers, less tax being paid etc and new jobs will be hard to find.

Leroy42

JDxtra wrote: »

Because working parents are over stretched - I am working full time and being a parent for multiple primary school children. The expectation is that my normal paid work is completed, in addition I have to be a parent (of course) and spend time with the children - and also complete at least some school work with them (it's emailed to me weekly).

There are only so many hours in the day. This has already gone on for an extended period of time with doubt now cast on what will happen in September.

Between myself and my partner we can manage school holidays and occasional illnesses etc - but 5 months of no school (or more!) is pushing the limits.

I understand how hard it seems, and I am in the same boat, but given the choice I would much prefer to continue on like this then risk the lives of others, especially those that I know and love.

In terms of sacrifices, it really isn't that bad. Think of it as a unique situation where you get to spend more time with your children. This is time most parents never get. You get to watch them learn, to understand their problems and successes.

We normally miss out on all of that. We send them to school and they come back knowing about time, or Irish, or addition or whatever.

Is it a change? Sure. Is it difficult, no doubt at all. Does it get massively frustrating, you bet. But if the biggest issue I have at the end of this is that I got frustrated because I spent more time with my children then that is a pretty good deal to me.

Just as their schooling has changed, your work needs to change. 20 minutes on work 10 minutes with the kids possible? Maybe morning for you, afternoon for the partner and then vice versa?

Use this time to get the kids involved in your work, in their education. Make it a game. Get them making you tea, doing some chores.

If all that is not possible, then forget about school. They will learn plenty just by spending time with you. Involve them in cooking, using the weighing scales, filling the measuring jug, counting out the chicken nuggets. Get them to help make the shopping list.

Get them to write a story of the last walk in the park, or the time they saw the squirrel, or how the dog loves jumping in the pond.

Take them out to the yard and use the hose to spray them with water. Let them free on the gardening.

If all of that, none of it, or some of it, is not enough, it is perfectly fine to sit them downin front of the TV and let them watch. Even stuff that seems silly or pointless. This is a strange time, we all need to adjust and accept that there is only so much we can do.

But one thing I am pretty certain of. The lack of the rush each morning when we all have to get ready for school and work. All running around telling them repeatedly to get dressed, brush teeth, comb hair, where is your book, what do you mean you were supposed to have a project today!, get in the car, get your bag, get out, don't cross there, look there is your friend, see you later, not having that but a much more relaxed and easy going start to the day when we have time to ask how they are, how they slept, about their dreams, allow them to wear PJ's if they wish.

That is unique and something they will forever look back on with happiness and you as well.

beggars_bush

If I were under pressure with working from home I would cut back on the supervised chool work being done.
And explain why to the school

wirelessdude01

beggars_bush wrote: »

If I were under pressure with working from home I would cut back on the supervised chool work being done.
And explain why to the school

No primary school or its teachers should be putting additional stress or pressure on their students or their families. That is the approach that I am taking anyway.

jrosen

Leroy42 wrote: »

I understand how hard it seems, and I am in the same boat, but given the choice I would much prefer to continue on like this then risk the lives of others, especially those that I know and love.

In terms of sacrifices, it really isn't that bad. Think of it as a unique situation where you get to spend more time with your children. This is time most parents never get. You get to watch them learn, to understand their problems and successes.

We normally miss out on all of that. We send them to school and they come back knowing about time, or Irish, or addition or whatever.

Is it a change? Sure. Is it difficult, no doubt at all. Does it get massively frustrating, you bet. But if the biggest issue I have at the end of this is that I got frustrated because I spent more time with my children then that is a pretty good deal to me.

Just as their schooling has changed, your work needs to change. 20 minutes on work 10 minutes with the kids possible? Maybe morning for you, afternoon for the partner and then vice versa?

Use this time to get the kids involved in your work, in their education. Make it a game. Get them making you tea, doing some chores.

If all that is not possible, then forget about school. They will learn plenty just by spending time with you. Involve them in cooking, using the weighing scales, filling the measuring jug, counting out the chicken nuggets. Get them to help make the shopping list.

Get them to write a story of the last walk in the park, or the time they saw the squirrel, or how the dog loves jumping in the pond.

Take them out to the yard and use the hose to spray them with water. Let them free on the gardening.

If all of that, none of it, or some of it, is not enough, it is perfectly fine to sit them downin front of the TV and let them watch. Even stuff that seems silly or pointless. This is a strange time, we all need to adjust and accept that there is only so much we can do.

But one thing I am pretty certain of. The lack of the rush each morning when we all have to get ready for school and work. All running around telling them repeatedly to get dressed, brush teeth, comb hair, where is your book, what do you mean you were supposed to have a project today!, get in the car, get your bag, get out, don't cross there, look there is your friend, see you later, not having that but a much more relaxed and easy going start to the day when we have time to ask how they are, how they slept, about their dreams, allow them to wear PJ's if they wish.

That is unique and something they will forever look back on with happiness and you as well.

Im almost lost for words and I think your post shows a total lack of understanding to what is actually involved for many working parents. You think people can work for 20 mins and then tap out? Throughout the day?

I think your ideas are great btw but to think that a parent with a full time job can simply play in the garden, have their kids cook and bake throughout the day whist also being accountable to deadlines, conference calls etc simply does not add up.
What is actually happening right now is parents up at 5.30/6am before their kids so they can get a kick start on the day, they are working much later into the night just to get their job done. I know parents who are working from 5.30am and not stopping until 11pm at night. Its only a matter of time before those parents burn out.
Companies are also tracking this is the background. Identifying groups and individuals who are falling below the expected % output. How long do you think companies will be prepared to put up with this?

Im very lucky, we both have great flexibility and my kids are older so can be left alone for periods of time and also left to do their school work. Im also not back until July. But when the restrictions start to lift more and we have more and more parents due back to work there will be many who simply wont be able to return if their kids are not in school.

jrosen

And just to be clear im not blaming anyone im simply pointing out what I believe to be a ticking time tomb.

Paddygreen

beggars_bush wrote: »

If I were under pressure with working from home I would cut back on the supervised chool work being done.
And explain why to the school

All the lazy parents will be using that excuse. Have you ever heard of multitasking? It is perfectly possible to work from home, educate the kids and do all the housework at the same time. Pull the finger out.

MerlinSouthDub

downthemiddle wrote: »

Can I clarify that you are urging the Department of Education to ignore the advice of Tony Holohan and NPHET?

Tony Holohan has no qualifications in epidemiology. He and NPHET have made huge errors in managing this crisis, particularly in relation to nursing homes and general poor planning on the provision of PPE

22 European countries have schools and creches open to some degree.

We absolutely should challenge whether Tony Holohan knows better than the CMO in each of those 22 countries.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Paddygreen wrote: »

All the lazy parents will be using that excuse. Have you ever heard of multitasking? It is perfectly possible to work from home, educate the kids and do all the housework at the same time. Pull the finger out.

Please let us know how since you think its a simple matter of multi tasking, because I'm the complete opposite of a lazy person and there just aren't enough hours in the day right now and I know I'm not alone in this.

plodder

Worth pointing out as well that if schools were to reopen early, it wouldn't be obligatory to send your kids. People who are coping well with the current environment and feel their kids are able to work well remotely and aren't stressed by it, could keep their kids at home or only send them in one day or two days a week.

uli84

Well they should go-back as they go-back in any other September, What do you mean by “be able”? in Sweden they never closed, there are 25-28 kids per class and the end of the world didn’t happen.

Leroy42

uli84 wrote: »

Well they should re-open as they re-open in any other September, in Sweden they never closed, there are 25-28 kids per class and the end of the world didn’t happen.

And if they reopen, and your child gets sick and dies, do you think a 'give it a go and see approach' will have been worth it?

uli84

Leroy42 wrote: »

And if they reopen, and your child gets sick and dies, do you think a 'give it a go and see approach' will have been worth it?

Yes, that’s what I think, i’m sorry. And it’s not ‘give it a go and see approach' - There are countries where schools never closed and most where the schools are back opened as of today and September is a long long way so plenty of time to assess the risk

plodder

Leroy42 wrote: »

And if they reopen, and your child gets sick and dies, do you think a 'give it a go and see approach' will have been worth it?

NPHET aren't even worried about that. Primary school children are around 1% of hospitalised cases, and 0% of deaths here.

DSN

Leroy42 wrote: »

If all that is not possible, then forget about school. They will learn plenty just by spending time with you.

But how long do you think we can 'forget about school' for?
You are deluded. 20 mins work, 10 mins 'tap out'!

I just hope the Govt & Dep of Ed get their act together & make a plan (and stick to it!) to get schools back full time in Sept.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Please let us know how since you think its a simple matter of multi tasking, because I'm the complete opposite of a lazy person and there just aren't enough hours in the day right now and I know I'm not alone in this.

Don't feed....

s1ippy

I'm just staggered at the amount of parents here who simply can't make their situations work. I have a lot of sympathy but just like in every other sector, getting angry about it isn't going to change the realities of the situation. There has to be compromise between employers and parents, everybody is in the same situation.

I would suggest laws be brought in to protect workers against dismissal because they're parents, but there are already supposed to be laws in place for that, it's just very hard to enforce because of the competitive nature of employment. In a capitalism-fuelled society, everyone is expendable.

The argument in the last few pages seems to have become less about child welfare or education and more about getting them out the door, no matter the cost. It's an incredibly sad state of affairs.

Leroy42

DSN wrote: »

But how long do you think we can 'forget about school' for?
You are deluded. 20 mins work, 10 mins 'tap out'!

I just hope the Govt & Dep of Ed get their act together & make a plan (and stick to it!) to get schools back full time in Sept.

Seriously, do you want me to give you exact instructions to cover every possible scenario? That exact situation doesn't work for me therefore the very idea can be dismissed!

It was an example. Simple as. If that isn't workable think of something else.

At the end of the day, they are your children and the situation is as it is. If they cannot find a solution for reopening in September, what then? You just going to give up? Ignore the children? Come on, I find it hard as well but it cannot be beyond us all as parents to work out some solution, not matter how imperfect.

Lyle

Leroy42 wrote: »

And if they reopen, and your child gets sick and dies, do you think a 'give it a go and see approach' will have been worth it?

uli84 wrote: »

Yes, that’s what I think, i’m sorry.

jesus f*cking christ above

You think it's worth your child's death? And your post has two Thanks. Whatever impact this has on kids, it is not a fate worse than death, but you would accept the risk to the life of your child as a fair trade to prevent an as-yet-undefinable (in the long run) impact on their educational/social/psychological lives. Efforts can be made through the rest of their life to repair any damage done. If they're dead, they're dead. Your child. Dead. You're fine with it. I cannot wrap my head around this.

uli84

Lyle wrote: »

jesus f*cking christ above

You think it's worth your child's death? And your post has two Thanks. Whatever impact this has on kids, it is not a fate worse than death, but you would accept the risk to the life of your child as a fair trade to prevent an as-yet-undefinable (in the long run) impact on their educational/social/psychological lives. Efforts can be made through the rest of their life to repair any damage done. If they're dead, they're dead. Your child. Dead. You're fine with it. I cannot wrap my head around this.

But there isn’t any death risk if there was a great death risk, no I wouldn’t send him/her

ldy4mxonucwsq6

uli84 wrote: »

But there isn’t any death risk if there was a great death risk, no I wouldn’t send him/her

Yeah I think people are forgetting the risk of infection and/or death is decreasing all the time and was never high for children anyway.

Very dramatic for posters to suggest that parents don't care or are happy to risk their child dying when that's nowhere near the reality. Completely ott.

JDxtra

Nobody wants their kids to die. Nobody wants kids just out the door. Yes, it’s nice not to have to rush to/from work and school.

Working parents are juggling employment/parenting/home school. Employers AND employees need to be reasonable and flexible during these times. However it’s not feasible for many to be spending time baking cakes etc. during a working day. A working day is about putting in extra hours getting the paid employment done so there is enough time left for parenting and home school.

There just needs to be light at the end of the tunnel for working parents. It can’t be “bring your kids to work day” every day for the foreseeable future. Schools/teachers/the department have plenty of time to come up with a reasonable plan.

jimmytwotimes 2013

What part of, teachers won't be part of the planned return, do people not understand?

The return date will come from government and that will only come from the government. It will be September as the natural break of the summer lasts til then.

Planning for the return will happen from the level of Principal to ETB (if applicable) to BOM to Dept. Teacher input won't be asked for or appreciated.

If you don't understand this, you're not aware of the structure of education these days

kandr10

JDxtra wrote: »

Nobody wants their kids to die. Nobody wants kids just out the door. Yes, it’s nice not to have to rush to/from work and school.

Working parents are juggling employment/parenting/home school. Employers AND employees need to be reasonable and flexible during these times. However it’s not feasible for many to be spending time baking cakes etc. during a working day. A working day is about putting in extra hours getting the paid employment done so there is enough time left for parenting and home school.

There just needs to be light at the end of the tunnel for working parents. It can’t be “bring your kids to work day” every day for the foreseeable future. Schools/teachers/the department have plenty of time to come up with a reasonable plan.

I agree with you. The pressure on a lot of my family members and friends is quite high. They’re spending shifts working and juggling minding kids etc. It’s tough and you end up feeling like you’re not doing either your job or your parenting well enough.
However I also know that the companies these people work for have already issued guidelines around the return to work and for all of them it’s working from home indefinitely as the office spaces they’re in can’t accommodate large numbers with social distancing. Where that leaves them with childcare I don’t know. A lot of them have kids still in crèche and that’s not been ironed out either. However their employers have at least started making plans.
My employers (dept of Ed) have made no such communication with the principal or teachers and are leaving us completely in the dark as far as how we return to work. We had the chance to give feedback to the into but I don’t know what came of that. If you think we have any say in what happens you’re mistaken.
I don’t think it’s good enough to say what’s working in Denmark should be done here. A lot of European countries are ahead of us in terms of tackling the virus. Yes it’s great to learn from what they do but we would be applying similar criteria in a different context (taking class sizes, building sizes etc into account). It’s not as easy as taking a carbon copy and doing the same thing here.
As far as social distancing not working, it would certainly be difficult but it looks like most establishments are going to be operating on that basis so why throw caution to the wind and neglect it in schools? If it’s recognised as not necessary generally, fair enough. Very hard to justify doing away with it in schools if it has to be adhered to elsewhere.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

kandr10 wrote: »

However I also know that the companies these people work for have already issued guidelines around the return to work and for all of them it’s working from home indefinitely as the office spaces they’re in can’t accommodate large numbers with social distancing. Where that leaves them with childcare I don’t know. A lot of them have kids still in crèche and that’s not been ironed out either. However their employers have at least started making plans.
My employers (dept of Ed) have made no such communication with the principal or teachers and are leaving us completely in the dark as far as how we return to work.

That's great if you work in an office but quite a great many parents don't have the option to work from home at all. So there is no plan to return to work as they have been working through this whole thing.

kandr10

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

That's great if you work in an office but quite a great many parents don't have the option to work from home at all. So there is no plan to return to work as they have been working through this whole thing.

I’m sorry I don’t quite understand you. Do you mean you can’t work from home and have to go into work? In which case I’d imagine childcare is a nightmare. Or do you mean you can’t work from home and have been put out of work as a result?
I can’t imagine how difficult it is for the families who can’t work from home and are on the unemployment benefit instead. The stress of that on top of everything else must be awful.
I do count myself lucky that my partner and I are able to continue working and being paid. We’re very fortunate as are a lot of office workers, as you say.
My point was more around getting clarity from an employer though which is what I feel I’m lacking. Worse positions to be in though - I’d be the first to say it!
The sooner the government gets the finger out with making a plan around childcare and education the better for everyone it seems.

History Queen

If this is the case there'll be a huge knock on effect on lots of workplaces, including schools.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/medical-advice-suggests-tds-cant-spend-two-hours-day-dail-chamber-1017532?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1589896918

ldy4mxonucwsq6

History Queen wrote: »

If this is the case there'll be a huge knock on effect on lots of workplaces, including schools.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/medical-advice-suggests-tds-cant-spend-two-hours-day-dail-chamber-1017532?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1589896918

It's complete rubbish any excuse, try telling that to people who've been working full days next to others throughout the whole pandemic as plenty of workers have been.

Add to that most other European countries have a 1 metre social distancing requirement.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

kandr10 wrote: »

I’m sorry I don’t quite understand you. Do you mean you can’t work from home and have to go into work? In which case I’d imagine childcare is a nightmare. Or do you mean you can’t work from home and have been put out of work as a result?

Picture a family where both parents are frontline/essential workers, there are quite a many families in this position and while working opposite shifts and taking leave etc means there's a juggle to manage, it's not sustainable long term.