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How will schools be able to go back in September?

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    #5012
    BonsaiKitten
    Registered Users Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭BonsaiKitten


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Somebody else brought up the UK, not me, but there are plenty of other countries where schools are run in this way where the outcomes are fine.

    No I don’t want an admin principal. I just don’t think a teaching qualification and career is sufficient to be the principal of a school, and that is what every school in the country has.

    And yet you've demonstrated already that you know very little about the running of a school. Forgive me if I don't take your views on appropriate qualifications for principals all that seriously.


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    #5013
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    What a startling insight. Do you think the vomit magically disappears all on its own?
    I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence of your claim of strike action. Surely you don't make statements you can't substantiate.

    They said they have to wait to clean it up as did other teachers. It's easy enough to just get it sorted there and then if they had the means to.

    It's not exactly rocket science.

    Evidence of claim of strike action? Evidence? Give it a few weeks.


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    #5014
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    That would sort of ape the UK system. Trust me we don't want that coming in here. Schools run as businesses and pitted against each other for funding. A discussion for a totally different thread though.

    Doesn't sound like a bad idea, might shake things up a bit.

    Our education system badly needs an injection of funding but it also needs to have some independent leadership which might come from a business based model rather than what we have currently.


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    #5015
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    How would you define the role of the principal?

    Facility and procurement expert with management capabilities.


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    #5016
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,422 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

    Evidence of claim of strike action? Evidence? Give it a few weeks.

    So you can tell the future so?


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    #5017
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Facility and procurement expert with management capabilities.

    You don't place any value on their ability as educators?


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    #5018
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,422 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Facility and procurement expert with management capabilities.

    How do they fulfill the role of teaching principal so which is the case in well over half the primary schools?


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    #5019
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    Evidence of claim of strike action? Evidence? Give it a few weeks.

    You need to cut that fringe girl. It is clearly interfering with your view of the world.


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    #5020
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    You need to cut that fringe girl. It is clearly interfering with your view of the world.

    Why because I don't share your views?

    Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one but they all think each others stink. :)


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    #5021
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    You don't place any value on their ability as educators?

    No, because they shouldn’t be educating. They should be running a school. There’s plenty of work in that.


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    #5022
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    No, because they shouldn’t be educating. They should be running a school. There’s plenty of work in that.

    So who has overall responsibility for the quality of teaching and learning in the school?


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    #5023
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    So who has overall responsibility for the quality of teaching and learning in the school?

    The department of education.


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    #5024
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,422 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    You need to cut that fringe girl. It is clearly interfering with your view of the world.

    You also forgot that it leads to inventing stories regarding strikes 😂


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    #5025
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    Why because I don't share your views?

    Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one but they all think each others stink. :)

    Nothing to do with my views and all to do with you continuously making unsubstantiated comments.
    I'm afraid I don't share your expertise on ar**holes.


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    #5026
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,422 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    The department of education.

    Think they meant within a school?


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    #5027
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    The department of education.

    Can you suggest how that structure should be managed in over 4,000 schools?


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    #5028
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Think they meant within a school?

    The department of education have inspectors, right?


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    #5029
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    The department of education have inspectors, right?

    So the role of the inspector is to manage the quality of teaching and learning in an individual school?


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    #5030
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    Can you suggest how that structure should be managed in over 4,000 schools?

    However the department of education sees fit. I would imagine that it would be pretty similar to now.


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    #5031
    KerryConnor
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭KerryConnor


    See attached government expenditure on education by Country - you can see ireland is well down - literally the lowest expenditure along with Romania.

    Everyone wants kids back full time by late August .. So we should presuise government to put the money and staff into it. Teachers aren't asking for pay rises (which someone here suggested) but funding for more staff and resources which will benefit our kids massively . And will allow staff to ensure health and safety protocols are followed and our communities are protected from surges in the virus. Those suggesting schools are low risk should look outbreaks in israel.

    Simply getting kids to wash hands is impossible without 2 adults in room. You cant allow a trail of kids out to loos to wash hands safely without someone supervising. The kids start messing, water ends up on the floor someone might slip(talking from experience a boy in 2nd whacked his head off wall of bathroom a couple years ago and had to go to AnE) . Maybe Covid will be the opportunity to improve our schools.


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    #5032
    BonsaiKitten
    Registered Users Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭BonsaiKitten


    This would be the same Dept of Ed who have continuously gone out of their way to avoid taking any responsibility or giving concrete guidance during the pandemic.

    I wouldn't be putting my faith in them to properly oversee all the schools in the country...


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    #5033
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    So the role of the inspector is to manage the quality of teaching and learning in an individual school?

    It’s kind of like that now, right? Primary and secondary schools both have standardized testing that highlight issues in learning. If there’s an issue with the teaching that’s easy to discover and assess.


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    #5034
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »
    Why because I don't share your views?

    Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one but they all think each others stink. :)
    ?? Assholes don't have the capacity to think.


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    #5035
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    s1ippy wrote: »
    ?? Assholes don't have the capacity to think.

    They can't read either :rolleyes:


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    #5036
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    KerryConnor wrote: »
    See attached government expenditure on education by Country - you can see ireland is well down.

    Everyone wants kids back full time by late August .. So we should presuise government to put the money and staff into it. Teachers aren't asking for pay rises (which someone here suggested) but funding for more staff and resources which will benefit our kids massively

    That is completely shocking and I 100% support adequately funding schools. The whole system and it’s facilities need to be razed to the ground and totally overhauled. This is a first world country, for Gods sake! We’re on a par with Romania here...


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    #5037
    BonsaiKitten
    Registered Users Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭BonsaiKitten


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    It’s kind of like that now, right? Primary and secondary schools both have standardized testing that highlight issues in learning. If there’s an issue with the teaching that’s easy to discover and assess.

    The primary purpose of Drumcondra/ Sigma/ Micra tests is as a means of screening children to determine who might need additional supports. It's not a check up on the school, it assesses the kids relative to national progress.

    Now, if the class drops as a whole then the principal might look into why - but sometimes a drop is expected (like with the revised Drumcondras last year). Often an individual drop in STEN can be attributed to issues on the day. It's good to have some kind of standardised test I think but I wouldn't treat them as the be all and end all.


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    #5038
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,422 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    It’s kind of like that now, right? Primary and secondary schools both have standardized testing that highlight issues in learning. If there’s an issue with the teaching that’s easy to discover and assess.

    Not used for that purpose at all.

    testing can be used to support
    assessment of children’s progress and achievement, and to extend and enrich their
    learning.

    The above is taken from a document on the NCCA website.


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    #5039
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    That is completely shocking and I 100% support adequately funding schools. The whole system and it’s facilities need to be razed to the ground and totally overhauled. This is a first world country, for Gods sake! We’re on a par with Romania here...

    Just noticed that it’s %GDP aswell, real two fingers to the children of this country.


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    #5040
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    BonsaiKitten wrote: »
    The primary purpose of Drumcondra/ Sigma/ Micra tests is as a means of screening children to determine who might need additional supports. It's not a check up on the school, it assesses the kids relative to national progress.

    Now, if the class drops as a whole then the principal might look into why - but sometimes a drop is expected (like with the revised Drumcondras last year). Often an individual drop in STEN can be attributed to issues on the day. It's good to have some kind of standardised test I think but I wouldn't treat them as the be all and end all.

    Actually was wondering do you think they will run the tests for this year once the schools are back up and running?

    I've found these tests very useful to see if anything is slipping and catch it before it becomes a bigger problem.


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    #5041
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,422 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    BonsaiKitten wrote: »
    The primary purpose of Drumcondra/ Sigma/ Micra tests is as a means of screening children to determine who might need additional supports. It's not a check up on the school, it assesses the kids relative to national progress.

    Now, if the class drops as a whole then the principal might look into why - but sometimes a drop is expected (like with the revised Drumcondras last year). Often an individual drop in STEN can be attributed to issues on the day. It's good to have some kind of standardised test I think but I wouldn't treat them as the be all and end all.

    In my humble opinion they are a complete loads of sh!te. Some parents place far too much value in the stens. They are just a snapshot on a given day. Sometimes they equate to what you see during the school year and correspond to class based assessments and sometimes they don't. I always put a letter in with my reports basically telling parents not to put too much emphasis on the stens that their child got.


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