How will schools be able to go back in September?

Dublingirl80

From September on if they offered a choice of either 350 covid payment to teachers (who for the first time since all this would be officially off work due to covid) or to work in unsafe conditions that are being suggested , I know which most people would choose. Then you'll have no teachers, no online teaching and lots of people on the covid payment and no childcare which seems to be the main issue for lots of working parents. Realistically a teacher could also go work in a local shop in safe conditions and wait this all out. I think people would want to improve their attitudes. If they think criticising and saying tough luck go do what you're told is going to get thousands of people to work in unsafe conditions. And before you mention all the people who have had to work in unsafe conditions, if people in the meat factories had been protected by issues being highlighted and the public supporting them then maybe there wouldnt have been thousands of cases there. People probably cared more that their burgers wouldnt go out of stock.

Lillyfae

History Queen wrote: »

My local primary schools caretaker only works 5 hours per week. Lots of small schools have similar arrangements.

Needs to be a person on site to solve problems, that should definitely be addressed. Sitting in a room with vomit all day is barbaric. Call another teacher, or the principal or whoever. Poor children.

Dublingirl80

Lillyfae wrote: »

Seriously, there’s no caretaker? Couldn’t you give them a quick buzz to let them know there’s vomit on the floor and they need to get their sawdust and mop?Schools are underfunded and buildings are seriously lacking, I’ll give you that, but
there is no need to exaggerate the situation.

It's not a caretakers job to clean vomit by the way. Teachers usually do it. Funny how the same people everyone calls so lazy happen to also clean up your kids vomit without anyone even realising it's a common enough part of the job.

Dublingirl80

Lillyfae wrote: »

Needs to be a person on site to solve problems, that should definitely be addressed. Sitting in a room with vomit all day is barbaric. Call another teacher, or the principal or whoever. Poor children.

You seem to not realise this is literally the tip of the iceberg as far as issues.

History Queen

Dublingirl80 wrote: »

From September on if they offered a choice of either 350 covid payment to teachers (who for the first time since all this would be officially off work due to covid) or to work in unsafe conditions that are being suggested , I know which most people would choose. Then you'll have no teachers, no online teaching and lots of people on the covid payment and no childcare which seems to be the main issue for lots of working parents. Realistically a teacher could also go work in a local shop in safe conditions and wait this all out. I think people would want to improve their attitudes. If they think criticising and saying tough luck go do what you're told is going to get thousands of people to work in unsafe conditions. And before you mention all the people who have had to work in unsafe conditions, if people in the meat factories had been protected by issues being highlighted and the public supporting them then maybe there wouldnt have been thousands of cases there. People probably cared more that their burgers wouldnt go out of stock.

Even if that were used to try "force" teachers in to the classrooms (I say that with inverted commas as any teacher I know doesn't need forcing) it still won't get students back in to classrooms. Teachers will be there, but schools will not go against health and safety measures so that means the whole cohort of students wouldn't be in ie. part time education or blended learning. The only way to open schools fully is have the guidance change, allowing that to happen. OR the Dept could try fund schools to comply with the current guidance.

BonsaiKitten

Lillyfae wrote: »

Needs to be a person on site to solve problems, that should definitely be addressed. Sitting in a room with vomit all day is barbaric. Call another teacher, or the principal or whoever. Poor children.

Oh I agree but again this comes down to Govt funding like so many other issues mentioned in the thread. In many schools the principal is a teaching principal so have their own class to teach and as for other teachers...who would they be? Very few schools just have staff floating around the place.

Lack of staffing will be problematic for schools trying to keep up the cleaning next year. A lot of schools have cleaners only a few hours a week.

History Queen

Lillyfae wrote: »

Needs to be a person on site to solve problems, that should definitely be addressed. Sitting in a room with vomit all day is barbaric. Call another teacher, or the principal or whoever. Poor children.

Unfortunately this is a very small problem in the realms of Irish Education. There are many many more pressing issues all of which come down to lack of investment in education.

KerryConnor

It's not exaggerating Lillyfae. Last year a child was sick at the back of the room and I threw newspaper on it, moved kids and dealt with it at break. It wasn't a big deal and that's how schools operate. Our caretaker (400 kids) works partime, split shift 7 til 10 then back for a couple hours in the afternoon. Every adult in a school is flat out supervising their own kids and duties. Took me a while to get used to that level of busyness when I started working in a school environment. That's how schools work and that's why extra staff would be essential to running a school (and I mean every child in all day, every day, which is what we all want and need) while coping with new challenges and restrictions Covid will place on staff.

Lillyfae wrote: »

Seriously, there’s no caretaker? Couldn’t you give them a quick buzz to let them know there’s vomit on the floor and they need to get their sawdust and mop?Schools are underfunded and buildings are seriously lacking, I’ll give you that, but
there is no need to exaggerate the situation.

wirelessdude01

Our cleaner has 15hrs a week to clean 8 mainstream classroom, 16 toilets, 2 SET rooms, an aistear room, staffroom, the corridors and the reception office.

downthemiddle

Dublingirl80 wrote: »

You seem to not realise this is literally the tip of the iceberg as far as issues.

A typical week could include a couple of pukers, one soiler, an outbreak of headlice, ringworm, impetigo, a child protection disclosure, a parent who is uncontactable when their child needs to go home sick, broken heating system, additional children to teach because of the substitute crisis, blocked toilets and an overloaded curriculum.
Other weeks things can get really bad.

Dublingirl80

History Queen wrote: »

Even if that were used to try "force" teachers in to the classrooms (I say that with inverted commas as any teacher I know doesn't need forcing) it still won't get students back in to classrooms. Teachers will be there, but schools will not go against health and safety measures so that means the whole cohort of students wouldn't be in ie. part time education or blended learning. The only way to open schools fully is have the guidance change, allowing that to happen. OR the Dept could try fund schools to comply with the current guidance.

Well I think any job that is unsafe by health and safety guidelines and people are not given an alternate option is forcing people. Optional leave and covid payment for example could be a fair alternative. But there wouldn't be enough staff so it wouldn't work.

Lillyfae

Dublingirl80 wrote: »

You seem to not realise this is literally the tip of the iceberg as far as issues.

Evidently. No school will be able to reopen by the sounds of things. The management of them is shocking without any pandemic.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Dublingirl80 wrote: »

It's not a caretakers job to clean vomit by the way. Teachers usually do it. Funny how the same people everyone calls so lazy happen to also clean up your kids vomit without anyone even realising it's a common enough part of the job.

If it common enough why is there no plan for it happening?

A small cleaning kit in each class wouldn't be too much trouble now would it?

Dublingirl80

Lillyfae wrote: »

Evidently. No school will be able to reopen by the sounds of things. The management of them is shocking without any pandemic.

Lilyfae you could always turn your hand to managing it. The funding is just not enough. There lies all the issues.

Lillyfae

Dublingirl80 wrote: »

It's not a caretakers job to clean vomit by the way. Teachers usually do it. Funny how the same people everyone calls so lazy happen to also clean up your kids vomit without anyone even realising it's a common enough part of the job.

Funny how people who go into primary teaching don’t realize that children sometimes puke either.

Dublingirl80

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

If it common enough why is there no plan for it happening?

A small cleaning kit in each class wouldn't be too much trouble now would it?

Funny how people who struggled to look after their own kids and do their jobs ar home now are acting like 28 kids and cleaning vomit is such a piece of cake. People do sort out the issues but there can be many issues at the same time. Eg a kid vomited you also need to phone the parents etv look after them and 27 other kids, supervise them all because if anyone slips and you're gone there is an insurance claim. You have literally no idea.

Dublingirl80

Lillyfae wrote: »

Funny how people who go into primary teaching don’t realize that children sometimes puke either.

Who didn't realise? You're the one who seemed to think that was what caretakers are for???

wirelessdude01

I once had a child puke all over me while having an inspector visit. Had to continue teaching until break time.

Dublingirl80

Just to put it into perspective. Think how common on current situations with no distancing it is for children to get headlice. Now imagine it was covid 19 not headlice. That is the reality.

Lillyfae

Dublingirl80 wrote: »

Lilyfae you could always turn your hand to managing it. The funding is just not enough. There lies all the issues.

I’m not attacking you. You’re a teacher so it’s definitely not your job. I think a big problem is that the principal is a teacher too. Wouldn’t it be more useful to have a management specialist (ie someone who has education in facilities, procurement and people management) than an ex teacher who is up to date with their cpd?

Lillyfae

Dublingirl80 wrote: »

Who didn't realise? You're the one who seemed to think that was what caretakers are for???

It was when I was in school. Every school should have a bloody caretaker.

Dublingirl80

Lillyfae wrote: »

I’m not attacking you. You’re a teacher so it’s definitely not your job. I think a big problem is that the principal is a teacher too. Wouldn’t it be more useful to have a management specialist (ie someone who has education in facilities, procurement and people management) than an ex teacher who is up to date with their cpd?

Yeah this would be great. There are also school nurses at least part time In other countries. This would be so useful for every school now to have one even shared part time.

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

I’m not attacking you. You’re a teacher so it’s definitely not your job. I think a big problem is that the principal is a teacher too. Wouldn’t it be more useful to have a management specialist (ie someone who has education in facilities, procurement and people management) than an ex teacher who is up to date with their cpd?

That would sort of ape the UK system. Trust me we don't want that coming in here. Schools run as businesses and pitted against each other for funding. A discussion for a totally different thread though.

downthemiddle

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

If it common enough why is there no plan for it happening?

A small cleaning kit in each class wouldn't be too much trouble now would it?

What a startling insight. Do you think the vomit magically disappears all on its own?
I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence of your claim of strike action. Surely you don't make statements you can't substantiate.

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

That would sort of ape the UK system. Trust me we don't want that coming in here. Schools run as businesses and pitted against each other for funding. A discussion for a totally different thread though.

I think that sounds great, even with the obvious bias in your post.

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

I think that sounds great, even with the obvious bias in your post.

Having taught in the system I think I've more knowledge rather than bias. Check out any of the Educating series from either BBC or Channel 4 to see what happens when schools are run as businesses.

BonsaiKitten

Lillyfae wrote: »

I think that sounds great, even with the obvious bias in your post.

You shouldn't, our system routinely outperforms them and they have a higher teacher burnout rate. Something we can ill afford - we don't have enough sub teachers as it is.

What you want is a full time admin principal for every school. I think every principal in the country would be in agreement with you on that one. Again, it comes down to the Government being willing to pay for it (and for full time cleaners/caretakers/nurses). That is where the ire should be directed, not at schools who are trying to cope as best they can.

s1ippy

downthemiddle wrote: »

If you feel health and safety guidelines shouldn’t apply to schools contact your local TD and ask them to table a private members bill to that effect. I’m sure most teachers would be delighted to have their lunch in peace instead of having to do yard duty.

Wouldn't even work because insurance is too expensive. Unless you made parents sign a waiver saying that school staff are not responsible for anything that happens to their child on the premises. That would actually solve a heap of problems.

Orchids wrote: »

Hazmat suit for all staff????

Brilliant I've never heard this suggested before, if you can provide hazmat suits I suggest you write to the department.

Millem wrote: »

Maybe it’s the 2% restoration on the 1st of October? The one ALL public sector employees will be getting.

Yeah and they all deserve it except teachers because they're the scum of the earth if posters in this thread are to be believed.

Hubertj wrote: »

That’s what it really comes down to. Unions holding the public to ransom for a pay increase. And this comes after them having months off work on full pay. Quite sickening really.

Reported: This person is flaming and knows it, as they have been repeatedly told that teachers aren't off work. If people repeatedly claimed about Apple employees or any other workers that they were off for months while they were working from home they'd probably have litigation against them but this thread exists solely for people to attack teachers.


Posters who are intentionally posting false information over and over again even after correction are just here to antagonise teachers when this really should be a discussion on what can be done as opposed to how bad teachers are. Just an opinion.

Lillyfae wrote: »

Seriously, there’s no caretaker? Couldn’t you give them a quick buzz to let them know there’s vomit on the floor and they need to get their sawdust and mop?Schools are underfunded and buildings are seriously lacking, I’ll give you that, but
there is no need to exaggerate the situation.

I genuinely laughed out loud at this poster thinking a caretaker would be available in a school, especially to clean up puke. Can you imagine it. Schools I worked in about eight years ago you'd have to go around with a hammer beating in sharp nails sticking out of things and if you wanted a notice board or coat hooks up, you were purchasing and hanging them yourselves.


Think about all the issues in your workplace and now imagine how much worse they'd get if there was no funding, 90% of the people in the building were liable to stick their fingers in plug sockets or encounter similar danger at any moment and most of your colleagues don't have expertise in anything except telling other people what to do. That's why I left teaching.

Lillyfae

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

You shouldn't, our system routinely outperforms them and they have a higher teacher burnout rate. Something we can ill afford - we don't have enough sub teachers as it is.

What you want is a full time admin principal for every school. I think every principal in the country would be in agreement with you on that one. Again, it comes down to the Government being willing to pay for it (and for full time cleaners/caretakers/nurses). That is where the ire should be directed, not at schools who are trying to cope as best they can.

Somebody else brought up the UK, not me, but there are plenty of other countries where schools are run in this way where the outcomes are fine.

No I don’t want an admin principal. I just don’t think a teaching qualification and career is sufficient to be the principal of a school, and that is what every school in the country has.

downthemiddle

Lillyfae wrote: »

Somebody else brought up the UK, not me, but there are plenty of other countries where schools are run in this way where the outcomes are fine.

No I don’t want an admin principal. I just don’t think a teaching qualification and career is sufficient to be the principal of a school, and that is what every school in the country has.

How would you define the role of the principal?