Call the Guards or no?

BanditLuke

deceit wrote: »

Their will be a lot of people serving prison time that work in the WHO when this is all done and dusted if their is any Justice. The head of the WHO was put their by China and they have been parroting everything China want them to say ever since. They are beyond useless and should not be trusted at this stage.

Any credibility they had has now vanished. When the world needed them they backed China and let the rest of us down.

theoneeyedman

After making a comment earlier, I see the members of the thought police have labelled me a conspiracy theory nutcase, among other things.
Now the comment was after another poster compared a lot of people's attitude to East Germany. My comment was made in that context, and in many ways the reaction to it backs up the opinion, where any individual thought is rounded upon and the poster in this case attacked.
I've not encouraged anyone to break the restrictions, but at the same time I find the whole judging attitude to anyone SEEN to not conform 100% distasteful TBH. We've given up a lot of rights to movement and assembly in recent weeks, driven by fear of the virus. Maybe it's justified, I don't know, and I'm complying, but we must be wary as a society, and keep out government and police force in check. Many governments have used fear to get their way over many centuries, and we must be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater with these regulations and how their implemented. Turning into a Stasi style society of twitching curtains and informants is not a good direction to be moving in, and anyone encouraging it through fear of either a virus if the old 'Reds under the Bed' fear mongering need to have a good look at themselves IMHO.

Mmmm_Lemony

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Oh no. Sorry Deebles. I'd argue you would in fact need to 'learn more about this situation'.

"There are few reports of laboratory-confirmed cases who are truly asymptomatic, and to date, there has been no
documented asymptomatic transmission"

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200402-sitrep-73-covid-19.pdf

If you are going to use this as evidence, at least read it first.

Pre-symptomatic transmission
The incubation period for COVID-19, which is the time between exposure to the virus (becoming infected) and
symptom onset, is on average 5-6 days, however can be up to 14 days. During this period, also known as the “pre-
symptomatic” period, some infected persons can be contagious. Therefore, transmission from a pre-symptomatic case
can occur before symptom onset.
In a small number of case reports and studies, pre-symptomatic transmission has been documented through contact
tracing efforts and enhanced investigation of clusters of confirmed cases. 12-17 This is supported by data suggesting that
some people can test positive for COVID-19 from 1-3 days before they develop symptoms.6,16 Thus, it is possible that
people infected with COVID-19 could transmit the virus before significant symptoms develop. It is important to
recognize that pre-symptomatic transmission still requires the virus to be spread via infectious droplets or through
touching contaminated surfaces.

In other words, 14 days (potentially) asymptomatic, and able to transmit the virus.

HamSarris

It would be an unwise move to report them from a cost-benefit analysis. The benefits are a theoretical reduced risk of spreading the virus which will be quickly offset when a high risk group comes to enforce the law at their house (i.e., the Gardai who have multiple contacts with people each day).

The costs are your neighbours holding a persistent grudge if they suspect you reported them, resulting in an atmosphere of tension every time you leave or enter your house or try to relax in the garden.

timmy_mallet

Mmmm_Lemony wrote: »

If you are going to use this as evidence, at least read it first.



In other words, 14 days (potentially) asymptomatic, and able to transmit the virus.

I'm glad we all agree based on your post that there is no evidence that asymptomatic transmission has any scientific backing.

Mmmm_Lemony

timmy_mallet wrote: »

I'm glad we all agree based on your post that there is no evidence that asymptomatic transmission has any scientific backing.

Wait, what? You provided the evidence. I'm convinced you still haven't read it, have you. Can you read this one line at least...

In a small number of case reports and studies, pre-symptomatic transmission has been documented through contact
tracing efforts and enhanced investigation of clusters of confirmed cases

I mean, in the report YOU posted it literally has reference to footnotes, which lists the evidence based scientific study! They aren't even hiding the evidence! It's right there!!!


Anyway....

There are stages to the lack of understanding.

Those that think it's all a global government/illuminati hoax.
Those that have somehow genuinely missed all the official pleas from government, HSE, WHO, people on the front line, all asking people to stay at home.
Those who are for the most part staying at home, but don't understand how contagious this virus is, irrespective of whether visible symptoms are there or not, and will pop over to a mate on the sly cause it can't do any harm, not realising they could be a factor in someone dying needlessly.
Those who don't fully understand, aren't happy with the situation as it is but are happy to do whats suggested and asked of them.

If you don't understand, get informed, read up on it. Actually read what the scienific community and the experts are saying about it. Because it's very f**king important. Lives depend on it. And if you don't want to understand and can't be arsed, then just stay the f**k home anyway.

There are a select few that understand, but don't really care about anyone else. Why should someone elses life get in the way of them having a bit of craic? These people are just a shower of c**ts.

deceit

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/science/when-i-look-at-the-viral-loads-we-find-in-elderly-people-it-is-mind-boggling-1.4224985?mode=amp

timmy_mallet

Mmmm_Lemony wrote: »

Wait, what? You provided the evidence. I'm convinced you still haven't read it, have you. Can you read this one line at least...



I mean, in the report YOU posted it literally has reference to footnotes, which lists the evidence based scientific study! They aren't even hiding the evidence! It's right there!!!


Anyway....

There are stages to the lack of understanding.

Those that think it's all a global government/illuminati hoax.
Those that have somehow genuinely missed all the official pleas from government, HSE, WHO, people on the front line, all asking people to stay at home.
Those who are for the most part staying at home, but don't understand how contagious this virus is, irrespective of whether visible symptoms are there or not, and will pop over to a mate on the sly cause it can't do any harm, not realising they could be a factor in someone dying needlessly.
Those who don't fully understand, aren't happy with the situation as it is but are happy to do whats suggested and asked of them.

If you don't understand, get informed, read up on it. Actually read what the scienific community and the experts are saying about it. Because it's very f**king important. Lives depend on it. And if you don't want to understand and can't be arsed, then just stay the f**k home anyway.

There are a select few that understand, but don't really care about anyone else. Why should someone elses life get in the way of them having a bit of craic? These people are just a shower of c**ts.

I mean, I dont know how many times I have to spell out the difference between asymptomatic and pre symptomatic.

hurikane

timmy_mallet wrote: »

I mean, I dont know how many times I have to spell out the difference between asymptomatic and pre symptomatic.

You lost this argument a long time ago.

seamusk84

HamSarris wrote: »

It would be an unwise move to report them from a cost-benefit analysis. The benefits are a theoretical reduced risk of spreading the virus which will be quickly offset when a high risk group comes to enforce the law at their house (i.e., the Gardai who have multiple contacts with people each day).

The costs are your neighbours holding a persistent grudge if they suspect you reported them, resulting in an atmosphere of tension every time you leave or enter your house or try to relax in the garden.

This. Just look after your family.

Nothing worse than having an air of tension with neighbors which goes on for years. We are awful for this type of thing in Ireland.

LionelNashe

The more people who follow the rules, the quicker we'll be through this, and the fewer people will suffocate to death with their lungs full of fluid. The more people who call the guards when they see somebody breaking the rules, the quicker we'll be out of this also. I'd nearly go as far to say that anyone who doesn't report infractions is part of the problem.

whisky_galore

LionelNashe wrote: »

The more people who follow the rules, the quicker we'll be through this, and the fewer people will suffocate to death with their lungs full of fluid. The more people who call the guards when they see somebody breaking the rules, the quicker we'll be out of this also. I'd nearly go as far to say that anyone who doesn't report infractions is part of the problem.

Mé Féinism, the "I saw nawtin" attitude and cute hoorism will cost us with body bags.

AtomicHorror

seamusk84 wrote: »

This. Just look after your family.

Nothing worse than having an air of tension with neighbors which goes on for years. We are awful for this type of thing in Ireland.

There are many things unimaginably worse than having an air of tension with your neighbours.

If they're selfish and arrogant enough to flout these basic rules in a time of unprecedented crisis, then they're likely the kind of neighbours someone would fall out with inevitably anyway. Would it be better to do it over trimming the hedge or a disputed extension?

As you say, we have local feuds a lot in Ireland, but at least this would have a point to it.

Dakota Dan

AtomicHorror wrote: »

There are many things unimaginably worse than having an air of tension with your neighbours.

If they're selfish and arrogant enough to flout these basic rules in a time of unprecedented crisis, then they're likely the kind of neighbours someone would fall out with inevitably anyway. Would it be better to do it over trimming the hedge or a disputed extension?

As you say, we have local feuds a lot in Ireland, but at least this would have a point to it.

Basic rules? Hardly

noddy69

LionelNashe wrote: »

The more people who follow the rules, the quicker we'll be through this, and the fewer people will suffocate to death with their lungs full of fluid. The more people who call the guards when they see somebody breaking the rules, the quicker we'll be out of this also. I'd nearly go as far to say that anyone who doesn't report infractions is part of the problem.

How does it end exactly ? How do we get out of it ?

hurikane

noddy69 wrote: »

How does it end exactly ? How do we get out of it ?

R0 becomes less than 1, by people staying at home or a vaccine.

If we can’t get the R0 below 1, then we keep it as low as possible to prevent even more deaths and wait for vaccine.

Only 2 day tripping cyclists this morning while out for my walk. Hopefully it’s a sign that the message is getting through.

TheCitizen

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Yes I know it's against the current restrictions but some people will decide to do that and otherwise adhere to all the other restrictions.

Just like the man I saw shopping in Aldi on Sunday.
He looked well over 70, based on the restrictions he should not have been in Aldi, but I didn't report him.

If we start reporting everyone each and every time we see someone ignoring the restrictions then people like the OP will get even more stressed because the Gardai will not be chasing up on all of them.

LOL I don’t think that’s the same thing as what the op is talking about? You can’t report someone for being in Aldi because you think they might look over 70? Not everyone looks their age

noddy69

hurikane wrote: »

R0 becomes less than 1, by people staying at home or a vaccine.

If we can’t get the R0 below 1, then we keep it as low as possible to prevent even more deaths and wait for vaccine.

Only 2 day tripping cyclists this morning while out for my walk. Hopefully it’s a sign that the message is getting through.

How do you keep R0 less than 1 without closing borders and keeping the lockdown in place ?
If you are keeping it in place , how long do you do that for ?

What if a vaccine is over a year away ( quite possible)

Fr Tod Umptious

TheCitizen wrote: »

LOL I don’t think that’s the same thing as what the op is talking about? You can’t report someone for being in Aldi because you think they might look over 70? Not everyone looks their age

The OP is talking about calling the Gardai on their neighbours because they see people in places they think those people should not be.

They have no context, background or anything.

Equally I saw a person in a place I thought they should not be, based on my opinion that they were over 70, because they looked well over 70.

I had no context or background or anything about the man I saw.

I'm all for breaking up some of the examples we have had on this thread like unofficial barbers, house parties of young people, turning cars back on the Cork-Kerry road with canoes on the roof.

But reporting a neighbour because they had someone else in their house is a stretch too far.

In East Germany it became so paranoid that people were reporting people because they thought they might have radical opinions, not because they did anything radical or published anything radical, just that they might be the type of person that would do something radical.

If we start reporting or neighbours because we think they are breaking the letter of the law, then where do we stop.

Do I report the man in the shop ?

Do I report the old woman out for a walk ?

Were does one stop ?

Mmmm_Lemony

timmy_mallet wrote: »

I mean, I dont know how many times I have to spell out the difference between asymptomatic and pre symptomatic.

I'm not sure there is any point but here goes...

Imagine this game.

It's Monday 1st of the Month. I give an envelope to each of 3 people; Person A, Person B and Person C. Each envelope is sealed and they can't open it. I will send an email on the following Friday (5th) that lists the contents of each of the envelopes.

Monday. 3 People, 3 envelopes.

Now, on Tuesday (2nd), each person then gives the envelope to a friend/relative/healthcare worker. A,B,C to Person X, Y and Z respectively. a-x, b-y, c-z

Tuesday, 3 new people have the envelopes.

Now, I'll let you in on a secret...1 envelope is empty. 1 has €1000 and another a bill for €1000. But as I said I don't reveal which envelope is which until the Friday! Thursday (4th). I ask Person A, B and C what they had in their envelopes. What do you think they said?

Thursday. Who has what?

It may turn out that Person A had nothing and passed on nothing. Person B had €1000 and passed it on. That person C had a bill and passed it on. Without knowing whats in the envelope it's impossible to know whats being passed on.


It's not a game though. And until you've been tested or develop symptoms, you can't know if you;
A: Have no virus at all
B: Are in early stages of the virus and will develop symptoms
or
C: Have the virus but will will never develop symptoms.

You simply can't tell without a test. And for us to test the entire population at our soon to be max test capacity of 4500 people a day, it would take 3 years. It's really as simple as this. If you stay at home, you won't pass the virus on. And if you are ignoring this, knowing full well that it's possible you could pass the virus on, then you are a c**t. There was plenty of them on the countries motorways yesterday evening and this morning.

hurikane

noddy69 wrote: »

How do you keep R0 less than 1 without closing borders and keeping the lockdown in place ?
If you are keeping it in place , how long do you do that for ?

What if a vaccine is over a year away ( quite possible)

Not my place to figure that out. I’m doing what is requested of me and staying home and having no visitors.

AtomicHorror

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Basic rules? Hardly

Would you call them complicated?

I didn't say they were easy or convenient, but they're certainly basic.

statto25

hurikane wrote: »

R0 becomes less than 1, by people staying at home or a vaccine.

If we can’t get the R0 below 1, then we keep it as low as possible to prevent even more deaths and wait for vaccine.

Only 2 day tripping cyclists this morning while out for my walk. Hopefully it’s a sign that the message is getting through.

Ah back to the auld cyclists again is it? Maybe they took the bikes to their mobile homes for the weekend?

Antares35

statto25 wrote: »

Ah back to the auld cyclists again is it? Maybe they took the bikes to their mobile homes for the weekend?

While I don't see any merit is singling out cyclists to bash, on the other hand, why are they supposed to be exempt from the restrictions? Do they travel too fast for the virus to shed? :pac:

statto25

Antares35 wrote: »

While I don't see any merit is singling out cyclists to bash, on the other hand, why are they supposed to be exempt from the restrictions? Do they travel too fast for the virus to shed? :pac:

They aren't but some people seem to believe that cyclists and runners are spewing the virus purposely like a fast moving human pandemic firing machine.

noddy69

hurikane wrote: »

Not my place to figure that out. I’m doing what is requested of me and staying home and having no visitors.

Right, so you see if you think about it's really not that simple.

I'm also staying in and exercising within the area I live.

There's a park nearby and I know some families that live 3k away using it....should I call the guards ? They live in apts with no garden , the kids need to get out ...but they are outside the 2k ?
No , it's none of my business , I don't own the area outside my home, I don't know the circumstances of those around me and I don't care. If I look after me and my family I am doing my bit, most others will to. If I start worrying what everyone else is doing I'll stress myself out for no good reason.

As long as people are doing their best to stay away from others as much as possible then that will slow the spread and take pressure off the health service, which is the point of the measures. It isn't to bring the RO down to get rid of the virus, that's not possible without stringent measures and complete loss of freedoms.

This virus is bringing out the worst in people. People in Kilkee, west Cork, Wexford and Dunlaoghaire believing they have a right to tell other Irish people to get out of an area that the people of the area don't own or have any right to as their own. Public land is public land , just because you happen to live in an area doesn't give you any right to tell other Irish people what they can and can't do ..it's disgraceful.
What's worse is people in those areas telling other people to get out of properties those people own, in that area.

Saying that ,those that travelled after the new laws are blithering idiots , and shouldn't have done so. Anyone who did after the law was put in place deserves the fine that comes with it.

We need to all do our own bit and stop the virtue signalling ****e

s1ippy

statto25 wrote: »

They aren't but some people seem to believe that cyclists and runners are spewing the virus purposely like a fast moving human pandemic firing machine.

It doesn't matter to me whether or not it's on purpose, if it's happening, which it is if they're asymptomatic carriers. It's not to bash joggers and cyclists for a laugh, it's because they're rapid-fire vectors of disease.

Antares35

statto25 wrote: »

They aren't but some people seem to believe that cyclists and runners are spewing the virus purposely like a fast moving human pandemic firing machine.

:D

Fair enough We see the odd cyclist up our way. Don't really mind them TBH (with the exception of last week when two went past me, one on either side of the road, preventing me from distancing from them :rolleyes:), but they tend to be lone travellers mostly, unlike the daytrippers with their hordes of kids who travel in packs :P

amadangomor

Called the Guards on kids playing football on the green. Five of them from three different houses.

Strange thing was when the Guards arrived the five of them went to one of their houses.

Hard to figure what was going on, only thing I could think was they were pretending to the Guards that they all lived in the same house.

statto25

s1ippy wrote: »

It doesn't matter to me whether or not it's on purpose, if it's happening, which it is if they're asymptomatic carriers. It's not to bash joggers and cyclists for a laugh, it's because they're rapid-fire vectors of disease.

During the course of this I've listened to as much talk radio as I can to get public opinion and it seems to be the fashion to fire in lycra clad coronavirus carriers and huffing and puffing spewing joggers as much as possible and its tiresome. I could start a rant here on kids in groups, church doors still being open, people in filling stations counting the change in your pocket they are so close the list is endless. Societal cop on is what will get us out the other side by washing hands, keeping distance, staying at home as much as possible but especially if you are sick, are in direct contact with vulnerable or if you cannot deal with the fact that people are not out to infect you. If you are that scared stay inside until this all blows over. Not the other way around which is how some people want it