CoVid19 Part XII - 4,604 in ROI (137 deaths) 998 in NI (56 deaths)(04/04) **Read OP**

kilkenny31

Roger_007 wrote: »

I hate that word ‘cocooning’. Let’s call it what it is, it’s effectively the imprisonment of the most vulnerable and fragile people in society and for those who live alone, it’s solitary confinement. We may argue all we like that it’s for the greater good but we cannot ignore the damage that’s being done to the mental health of those who have to suffer it. Isn’t it ironic that in the penal systems of most countries, solitary confinement is not used any more because it is deemed to be too mentally destructive.
One of the, (possibly unintended), consequences of the present policy is if it successful we will end up with a cohort of people who will not be allowed to see the light of day until the disease is completely eradicated, (or a vaccine developed), because they will have no immunity.

Yes but its the only strategy we have. At present they are already imprisoned and so are the rest of us. I personally think it's going to have to come to personal choice. I know an old lady who loves alone. In her mid 80's she regualry tells her daughter she'd rather be dead then keep living like this. She lonely, her family drop food to her door. My partner works as a nurse and she tells me its common for older people to say to her if she's hooking them up to a drip that it's a waste using it on them and it's never in a depressing way they all say they have had a good long life. I think forcing the elderly into cocooning is cruel. Let them decide, maybe someone in their late 80's or 90's would rather be surrounded by their families with the risk of catching this disease rather then being isolated for most of this year.

cian68

The One Doctor wrote: »

People who commit suicide very rarely leave a note. It's not like TV or the movies.

It not being like TV or the movies is exactly why I don't think it's right to guess the reason for a suicide.

BanditLuke

MadYaker wrote: »

The Chinese will probably have a “vaccine” before the end of year I’m sure

Hopefully. They seem to have pulled up the drawbridge after the mess they'd made anyway.

Fakediamond

yourdeadwright wrote: »

We can nott emulate South Korea they planned for a break out since 2015, Impossible to expect to catch up on 5 years work in a couple of weeks in the middle of a world crisis ,

I’m not arguing with that, but there is much more we could do, their chief expert says everyone should wear masks and eye protection, glasses are fine. Increase the testing levels, trace and isolate accordingly. Quarantine or enforce self-isolation of new arrivals for two weeks, monitor their movements by apps, continue to avoid crowded social environments, such as pubs, etc.

While we may not have enough masks for everyone, I will be wearing a scarf and glasses next time I go shopping and washing the scarf when I get home.

His key advice is still the basic one of washing hands and external clothing after being in public areas.

Underground

I've been feeling this weird mixture of luck that I haven't caught this thing yet and fear that maybe I do have it and am just in the incubation period.

Reading the IT this morning and it says there's a five year old in ICU with this, just horrible.

GooglePlus

The One Doctor wrote: »

People who commit suicide very rarely leave a note. It's not like TV or the movies.

Exactly, so the stories about it all being a result of the economic woes and the virus are just speculation.

You don't just throw yourself in front of a train when things get bad, the poor man obviously had a lot of other things on his plate.

Away With The Fairies

kilkenny31 wrote: »

Yes but its the only strategy we have. At present they are already imprisoned and so are the rest of us. I personally think it's going to have to come to personal choice. I know an old lady who loves alone. In her mid 80's she regualry tells her daughter she'd rather be dead then keep living like this. She lonely, her family drop food to her door. My partner works as a nurse and she tells me its common for older people to say to her if she's hooking them up to a drip that it's a waste using it on them and it's never in a depressing way they all say they have had a good long life. I think forcing the elderly into cocooning is cruel. Let them decide, maybe someone in their late 80's or 90's would rather be surrounded by their families with the risk of catching this disease rather then being isolated for most of this year.

It's not imprisoning. They're safer at home.

BanditLuke

Underground wrote: »

I've been feeling this weird mixture of luck that I haven't caught this thing yet and fear that maybe I do have it and am just in the incubation period.

Reading the IT this morning and it says there's a five year old in ICU with this, just horrible.

I think it's really important to remember those type of cases are very much the exception to the rule. The vast vast majority of people will catch this and no more than a very mild flu, head cold or no symptoms at all.

Musefan

ZX7R wrote: »

Very sad indeed it struck a personal cord with me,
He left a wife and two kids behind.
But it is not as clear cut as been posted in the articles,it seems the poor man had other problems related to his personal trans actions

I think that is what is most important.

Suicide is by and large a multifactorial issue. We don't know how much someone's cup is already full with other concerns, before something like this comes along, and then it becomes too much.

Distress levels are very high at the moment, and although COVID-19 might not be the sole reason someone is feeling very low, the additional layer of stress and worry is something that can really leave personal coping resources very low.

Ger Roe

dublinlive.ie have published a frightening account from a Covid-19 patient in James Connolly Hospital.

"You are so sick, struggling to breathe. You have no energy to even sit in the bed and chest pains that terrify you.

"Then you hear you are positive for COVID-19 and they just walk away."

She said that everyone in the ward is afraid.

"You hear older people and young men and woman crying. We all cried. But you have no energy to get up to ask them if they are OK," she said.

She added that the sense of isolation is frightening.
"There are no family members to hold your hand and say: 'It will be OK.'"

"You can’t ring home most of the time because you can’t speak. You have no breath in your body to talk," she added.

She praised the medical staff who are fighting on the front line.

"The staff are unreal, True warriors. You know they are scared but they are still there helping you. But you also know you are like a leper," she said.

"Your bed can’t be changed. Only one nurse, gowned up, can come into the room. God love them."

"You feel so bad, guilty. You have done nothing wrong but the guilt is eating you up because you know these people are risking their lives and then there is the guilt because you know you have infected your family."

The article also claims that patients that are confirmed positive, but do not require hospital treatment, are sometimes going home in buses and taxi's because family members will not collect them.

All very concerning - both the symptoms descriptions and the risks of travelling on public transport.

voluntary

iwillyeah1234 wrote: »

Newsflash ( via RTE) : Dominic "Herd Immunity" Cummings has the corona.

Holy Karma :pac::pac::pac:

Marsden35

Nice little manufacturing boost for China. Making millions of masks and other Corona-related equipment for Europe :rolleyes:

Like torching your home and then offering to sell you buckets of water to put it out.

jam_mac_jam

Marsden35 wrote: »

Nice little manufacturing boost for China. Making millions of masks and other Corona-related equipment for Europe :rolleyes:

Like torching your home and then offering to sell you buckets of water to put it out.

I hope after this we re assess how much of manufacturing capabilities resides in China and how helpless the west is at the moment.

kilkenny31

BanditLuke wrote: »

I think it's really important to remember those type of cases are very much the exception to the rule. The vast vast majority of people will catch this and no more than a very mild flu, head cold or no symptoms at all.

Yeah. It's hard to get that point across. Children die of the flu each year but it's never a cheap newspaper headline. It's unlikely that someone healthy under the age of 60 with no underlying conditions will die of this and that is always important to state.

Peppa

Some good news perhaps? I heard this briefly mentioned on Newstalk today but haven't seen it posted here. Apologies if I missed it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.breakingnews.ie/world/breathing-machine-developed-in-under-100-hours-to-help-covid-19-patients-990916.html

boetstark

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

It's not imprisoning. They're safer at home.

Two things
If they end up in a coffin it's the ultimate isolation
Also do people really think its OK for our elderly to stroll around in public spreading this virus.
Insisting on going out because they cannot sit on their arses for a few weeks is so selfish

BanditLuke

kilkenny31 wrote: »

Yeah. It's hard to get that point across. Children die of the flu each year but it's never a cheap newspaper headline. It's unlikely that someone healthy under the age of 60 with no underlying conditions will die of this and that is always important to state.

If it bleeds it leads.

Antares35

Roger_007 wrote: »

I hate that word ‘cocooning’. Let’s call it what it is, it’s effectively the imprisonment of the most vulnerable and fragile people in society and for those who live alone, it’s solitary confinement. We may argue all we like that it’s for the greater good but we cannot ignore the damage that’s being done to the mental health of those who have to suffer it. Isn’t it ironic that in the penal systems of most countries, solitary confinement is not used any more because it is deemed to be too mentally destructive.
One of the, (possibly unintended), consequences of the present policy is if it successful we will end up with a cohort of people who will not be allowed to see the light of day until the disease is completely eradicated, (or a vaccine developed), because they will have no immunity.

That's because it is.

I think most people will value their lives over their mental health for the time being. No point dying gasping for air knowing you still had your liberties. They aren't cocooning people to punish them. This thing is sweeping through nursing homes in Spain, killing so many people that the bodies cannot even be collected in good time, but you want to be offended on behalf of an entire cohort of our population because you think they are soft in the head and will crack if they have to stay in for a while.

We are all going to suffer mentally on some level because of this. People are out of jobs and have possibly lost their entire livelihoods. Parents are cooped up at home with children too young to understand why they cannot visit granny. Those of us who are pregnant take a risk attending antenatal appointments and look likely to have to give birth without our partners by our side.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Roger_007 wrote: »

I hate that word ‘cocooning’. Let’s call it what it is, it’s effectively the imprisonment of the most vulnerable and fragile people in society and for those who live alone, it’s solitary confinement. We may argue all we like that it’s for the greater good but we cannot ignore the damage that’s being done to the mental health of those who have to suffer it. Isn’t it ironic that in the penal systems of most countries, solitary confinement is not used any more because it is deemed to be too mentally destructive.
One of the, (possibly unintended), consequences of the present policy is if it successful we will end up with a cohort of people who will not be allowed to see the light of day until the disease is completely eradicated, (or a vaccine developed), because they will have no immunity.

Well, considering that catching coronavirus would be certain death for me, I'll take the solitary confinement.

iguana

Ger Roe wrote: »

The article also claims that patients that are confirmed positive, but do not require hospital treatment, are sometimes going home in buses and taxi's because family members will not collect them.

All very concerning - both the symptoms descriptions and the risks of travelling on public transport.

Which again is something that could be helped massively if people who had the virus actually knew they had it. I guarantee we'd have absolutely no issue putting together a volunteer 'taxi' fleet of people with immunity who would drive currently infected people home from hospital. If the UK's antibody tests prove effective, hopefully the DoH here will order them too and we can do the same. It makes a lot of sense for us to wait and see if they prove effective in the UK's tests before ordering them ourselves. But hopefully they will be effective and we follow the British lead if they are. People with immunity could make a huge difference in the short to mid-term as volunteers and as people who can help kick start the economy.

Antares35

Roger_007 wrote: »

The Swedish approach is much better in the long run. They are advising their people to behave sensibly and by and large, they are doing it. You just have to trust people.

Yeah, one look at the Glendalough and Dun Laoghaire car parks last weekend will tell you that trusting people is not a strategy

wakka12

Roughly the same amount of people have died in the European UNion over the last 28 days from coronavirus as youd expect to die from flu in a whole year. So I guess that comparison can stop

Antares35

boetstark wrote: »

Two things
If they end up in a coffin it's the ultimate isolation
Also do people really think its OK for our elderly to stroll around in public spreading this virus.
Insisting on going out because they cannot sit on their arses for a few weeks is so selfish

I think you can apply this across the board TBH. It wasn't the elderly out in temple bar 2 weeks back having the craic and wearing fake haz chem suits, nor was it the elderly out in their droves at Glendalough queuing for ice-creams and chips.

is_that_so

Here's a piece on the Swedes. The fact that so many of them live alone may be a factor.

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200328-how-to-self-isolate-what-we-can-learn-from-sweden

Talisman

Deleted User wrote: »

The number of critically ill Covid-19 patients in intensive care units (ICU) was more evenly spread, with the youngest aged between five and 14. Thirty-three were aged between 45 and 64, and 24 people were over 65.

The HSE said it was preparing for a surge of coronavirus cases with 1,200 critical care beds, but could not say by how much the State’s ICU capacity would be exceeded at peak.

ICU concerns
Some 88 Covid-19-infected patients were in ICU on Saturday and there were 167 ICU beds still available, as the HSE scales up the number of critical care beds with life-saving ventilators.

There are some details of real ICU capacity at present, not the "around 500" figure as stated by Paul Reid and Anne O'Connor. Old habits die hard and it would appear that the HSE is still continuing to spin aspirational numbers as current capacity.

boetstark

Antares35 wrote: »

I think you can apply this across the board TBH. It wasn't the elderly out in temple bar 2 weeks back having the craic and wearing fake haz chem suits, nor was it the elderly out in their droves at Glendalough queuing for ice-creams and chips.

Absolutely, that applies to all society not just elderly.

Gods Gift

Did they ever find Batman?

tobefrank321

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I hope after this we re assess how much of manufacturing capabilities resides in China and how helpless the west is at the moment.

PPE is the one that stands out for me. We don't even have the manufacturing capacity here to make simple medical masks.

People can rightly criticise the Chinese but only for them, we'd have no PPE. Shocking.

Rob A. Bank

boetstark wrote: »

Two things
If they end up in a coffin it's the ultimate isolation
Also do people really think its OK for our elderly to stroll around in public spreading this virus.
Insisting on going out because they cannot sit on their arses for a few weeks is so selfish

You really don't understand the concept... do you ?

NIMAN

I find it strange to hear about old people cocooning, yet adverts from supermarkets telling us that the first few hours of opening is for older folk.