Creche charging for child's place during closure.

cooperguy

If people want a professional childcare service then they need to pay the staff. If you want constantly changing, low skilled, temp staff looking after your children then make the pay as precarious as possible

lawred2

cooperguy wrote: »

If people want a professional childcare service then they need to pay the staff. If you want constantly changing, low skilled, temp staff looking after your children then make the pay as precarious as possible

Sigh

The childcare workers in many cases have been laid off already.

cooperguy

lawred2 wrote: »

Sigh

The childcare workers in many cases have been laid off already.

In those cases, where they happen, then that is a different conversation.

starbaby2003

cooperguy wrote: »

If people want a professional childcare service then they need to pay the staff. If you want constantly changing, low skilled, temp staff looking after your children then make the pay as precarious as possible

If a company treat their staff well and run into this unexpected situation where they unfortunately need to lay their staff off they will return when this is over. Where exactly are all these jobs the staff are going to run off too? The exact type of Crèches who treat their staff like crap are the ones who refuse to budge on fees as they have built up zero goodwill with staff.
Secondly the government will pay employers who continue to pay their staff.
What you are suggesting is that we the parents take all the burden and the crèche takes none.
Tell me why that is fair ?

Sleeper12

Daz_ wrote:

Don’t think anyone minds paying for Christmas - staff have to get paid hols too.

Daz_ wrote:

Ridiculous comparison to be honest .

Eh hello??

Every business in Ireland pays Christmas holidays. There is nothing unique in this.
Most businesses include the Christmas holiday pay in your weekly fees. Crèches are the only business that I have ever come across that. It's a ridiculous setup. You work out how much you need to charge for the year and devide it by the amount of weeks that you plan to be open. Staff still get paid for holidays but parents don't feel ripped off or cheated.

If you care to read my post again I didn't compare Christmas holidays to this situation. I pointed out that many parents signed a contract allowing crèches to charge at Christmas time and any time that the creche has to close.

I'm totally against these charges but the vast majority of parents definitely did sign a contract allowing this practice. Another poster claims that parents didn't agree to it but in fact most did.

Sleeper12

lawred2 wrote:

Not the same thing.

You misread my post. I didn't say that Christmas was the same as this. I said that it's in the contracts for Christmas closing (that's one thing) & then totally separate in the contract it states that you agree to pay for any days that the creche doesn't open.

Again I'm against the fees but most parents signed legally binding contracts allowing them to charge for days they close.

Millem

There had a consumer expert on the radio this morning (newstalk). It was in relation to gyms. Basically if the gym is closed because of the coronavirus you do not have to pay your monthly fee. You should cancel the direct debit. When it reopens restart payment.

Surely would the same apply to crèches? Most people sign a contract with a gym.

Sleeper12

Millem wrote:

Surely would the same apply to crèches? Most people sign a contract with a gym.

I agree but some parents are afraid that the creche will replace their child with another child if they don't keep paying.

Personally I think the crèches are playing a dangerous game. They had great support from parents about the insurance issue. It was the parents who forced the government to cough up money.

Millem

I just saw Derry Clarke and his wife on the late late. They said something something along the lines of.....if the government had ordered the restaurant to shut they could claim on their “business interruption insurance”.
Do crèches have such insurance?

Toastytoes

Derry Clarke on the Late Late now taking about closing his restaurant due to the virus and saying that if the government actually forced restaurants to close then they could claim for business interruption from their insurance.

Is it off the wall to think crèches should have similar insurance cover? They have been told to close so you’d expect them to be able to claim but by the sounds of things they don’t have comparable cover.

Toastytoes

Millem wrote: »

I just saw Derry Clarke and his wife on the late late. They said something something along the lines of.....if the government had ordered the restaurant to shut they could claim on their “business interruption insurance”.
Do crèches have such insurance?

Snap. I actually asked this on this thread a few days ago on this thread as I thought all businesses would have it as standard. Crèches are using parents as their business interruption cover in some cases here.

neris

Millem wrote: »

I just saw Derry Clarke and his wife on the late late. They said something something along the lines of.....if the government had ordered the restaurant to shut they could claim on their “business interruption insurance”.
Do crèches have such insurance?

if the creche was closed by the hse because of a case of in that creche they would be entitled to insurance but as they were just told to close down the insurers wont cover it. its the same issue the pubs are having.

staff have been put of temporary lay offs and most creches will expect those staff back to work when places reopen.

Millem

neris wrote: »

if the creche was closed by the hse because of a case of in that creche they would be entitled to insurance but as they were just told to close down the insurers wont cover it. its the same issue the pubs are having.

staff have been put of temporary lay offs and most creches will expect those staff back to work when places reopen.

I thought pubs were advised to close....but schools/crèches were closed by the government.

Crybabygeeks

We have paid ours in full for these two weeks but haven't heard anything yet from them on what the situation will be after that.

My proposal would be for the staff to avail of covid 19 payment and for parents to top up difference if that's what it takes. This whole situation sucks but I really don't think a creche can ask parents to pay 1k per month per child for a service they're not availing of...

Class MayDresser

We paid 75% for the two weeks until the 29th, received a mail last Thursday to say they'll be suspending all fees thereafter until they reopen.

GreeBo

rosmoke wrote: »

It's not my responsibility how they pay their staff, it's not my business to think about their profits or revenue.

I assume from this that you also don't think it's the creche owners responsibility to keep a place for anyone not paying them?

GreeBo

starbaby2003 wrote: »

If a company treat their staff well and run into this unexpected situation where they unfortunately need to lay their staff off they will return when this is over. Where exactly are all these jobs the staff are going to run off too? The exact type of Crèches who treat their staff like crap are the ones who refuse to budge on fees as they have built up zero goodwill with staff.
Secondly the government will pay employers who continue to pay their staff.
What you are suggesting is that we the parents take all the burden and the crèche takes none.
Tell me why that is fair ?

And if the staff go home to their own countries...then what?
It's naive to think they will all come back, let alone come back to the same creche

AdMMM

GreeBo wrote: »

I assume from this that you also don't think it's the creche owners responsibility to keep a place for anyone not paying them?

Surely the point is that nobody would be paying? If a parent won't (or very likely can't) afford to pay over the next few months, are there really other parents out there who would happily pay a deposit and keep paying monthly without getting any service whatsoever?

Both sides need to be fair here. I'm not looking to pay reduced fees because I want to save a few quid for a holiday - I need to pay reduced fees because my girlfriend's hours are cut and very likely soon to be temporarily laid off.

My own creche was initially relying on a small policy that was meant for red weather warnings to keep charging, but look to have rolled back on that. Fees while closed will be based on the new wage guarantee that the government will announce. We don't mind that as nobody will be out of pocket.

kingstevii

GreeBo wrote: »

And if the staff go home to their own countries...then what?
It's naive to think they will all come back, let alone come back to the same creche

How are they going to go back to their own country? Walk?

GreeBo

AdMMM wrote: »

Surely the point is that nobody would be paying? If a parent won't (or very likely can't) afford to pay over the next few months, are there really other parents out there who would happily pay a deposit and keep paying monthly without getting any service whatsoever?

Does it matter though?
The question was, do you expect the creche to keep your place if you are not paying them any money?
If so, why?

kingstevii wrote: »

How are they going to go back to their own country? Walk?

Probably use an airplane like most people I guess?
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/people-want-to-get-home-to-their-families-how-dublin-airport-is-coping-with-covid-19-1.4204589

neris

kingstevii wrote: »

How are they going to go back to their own country? Walk?

I know of staff from abroad in creches who thought this was a holiday and have gone back to visit family and now dont know when they,ll b back. Even though the company never put them on lay off and told them to be available for work

AdMMM

GreeBo wrote: »

Does it matter though?
The question was, do you expect the creche to keep your place if you are not paying them any money?
If so, why?




Probably use an airplane like most people I guess?
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/people-want-to-get-home-to-their-families-how-dublin-airport-is-coping-with-covid-19-1.4204589

You're coming at this from a really strange way. It's certainly not a black and white situation.

Would I expect a creche to keep a place for my child if I told them to go **** themselves and cancelled my direct debit? No, I wouldn't.

However, if I engaged with them, explained that we were both heavily affected by this but would be in a position to confirm either way once reopening dates are confirmed and we all know more about our own job situation? Yes, I would. Or at the very least come to some arrangement that suits us all.

starbaby2003

GreeBo wrote: »

And if the staff go home to their own countries...then what?
It's naive to think they will all come back, let alone come back to the same creche

Yet again the issue here is how Creches treat their staff. It is not mine or parents problem. On the second question do you expect creches to keep places, no but if everyone is pulling their DD what difference will it make. Everyone I have spoken to is cancelling theirs. They are just waiting confirmation of what exactly the crèche is planning on doing.

sphinxicus

AdMMM wrote: »

My own creche was initially relying on a small policy that was meant for red weather warnings to keep charging,

Our creche looks to be following this path also. Initially it was an "ask" for parents to continue paying so that staff can receive full wages. Now the communication has turned to quoting their "Exceptional Circumstances" i.e red weather warning part of their fee policy. I suspect that many parents have objected to paying full fees and this is their reaction to that.

It would be interesting to understand how far a policy that would be written for a weather event that would normally last a week or two at best (bar physical damage which would be covered under insurance anyway) can stretch. This will go on for months and I believe its unrealistic to expect fees to be paid to protect the workers saleries when many of the parents have already lost their own employment and will not be bailed out by their customers. Thats what the Government has welfare policies in place for.

mirrorwall14

We are being asked for 75% or 50% so they can keep paying staff wages. We’ll be told Wednesday. Our older boy was finishing with them at the start of April. Not sure how they’ll handle that

indenial

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

We are being asked for 75% or 50% so they can keep paying staff wages.

I don't understand why creche staff are expected to be paid in full when they are not working. I sympathise with them along with the 160,000 other people affected but I'm not in a position to supplement them. Apart from teachers I can't think of any other profession that is being paid now after being out of work due to COVID 19.

For example myself and my wife get a taxi every Saturday to town for dinner and it costs me 20 Euros for the taxi and 100 euros for the meal. Am I still expected to pay the taxi man and restaurant every Saturday until things get back to normal? This is essentially what is being asked by creches.

bluefinger

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

We are being asked for 75% or 50% so they can keep paying staff wages. We’ll be told Wednesday. Our older boy was finishing with them at the start of April. Not sure how they’ll handle that

Ours are finished end of may as we take them out over summer and then in to big school. Not heard anything from creche having paid in full for march. I imagine there's a lot of parents in the same boat if this carries into summer.

sphinxicus

indenial wrote: »

I don't understand why creche staff are expected to be paid in full when they are not working.

The crazy thing is... some staff are now minding the same parents children in their homes and taking cash ontop of their wages while the creches are closed.

indenial wrote: »

I sympathise with them along with the 160,000 other people affected but I'm not in a position to supplement them.

I certainly cant afford to pay fees when I myself have had to take reduced pay. I dont have some benevolent group of fee payers that are happy to pay me for reduced/no hours of work.

indenial wrote: »

Apart from teachers I can't think of any other profession that is being paid now after being out of work due to COVID 19.

Thats exactly the issue right there. Teachers are getting paid because they are paid by the Government, creches are mainly private therefore should be in the same group as the rest of those who were working in the private sector and now find themselves unemployed. They can claim benefit like everyone else. Parents should not be expected to foot a bill when we have already paid tax to fund the benefits system that all unemployed workers should now be claiming from.

CaoinDory

As a worker in a playschool, this is ridiculous. Weve all been told to sign on. No childcare facility should be allowed to do that!

mirrorwall14

I’m a teacher and I’m honestly working more hours than I would in school because prepping and correcting for delivery online is far far more time consuming than normal. On top of that I have my two kids with me because creche is closed. I have no childcare options because grandparents are obviously out. I’m rarely clocking off before 10pm as a result because the only solid block of work I can get done without the two kids hanging off me is after bedtimes 8-10pm. I worked Saturday while my husband minded them so I could catch up.

I’m being paid because I’m working. And I’m a public service worker. But it really sticks to be essentially blackmailed into losing my spot to hand over nearly 1k without any service in return? It’s madness