Creche charging for child's place during closure.

Guffy

Got a text today from the manager advising that the "board of management" have decided that normal fees will apply during the school closure. Wtf? Is this being imposed by all creches? Paying for xmas week was bad enough but 2-5 weeks. They can feck off

_Brian

I’m well past that stage of my life but damn that’s hard to take.

Many households may be down in income because of kids home as someone needs to be with them.

Many people are being put on notice or reduced hours too.

ruwithme

Guffy wrote: »

Got a text today from the manager advising that the "board of management" have decided that normal fees will apply during the school closure. Wtf? Is this being imposed by all creches? Paying for xmas week was bad enough but 2-5 weeks. They can feck off

I agree with you completely. its gonna be dog eat dog in the time ahead. there will be a blood bath before this is all over. job losses e.t.c. they will be looking for children to fill places when through. best of luck.

Suckit

The place near us are charging reduced fees. No wages, no electricity etc. They haven't agreed a fee yet, but it will just be a fee to stop them from closure and and to keep everyone happy. It will be reviewed again on 1st April.

Minier81

Job losses is exactly why I am happy to pay my creche. I don't want the staff there to lose their jobs because they can't afford to keep them.

1874

Best part of 2.5 weeks, load of bollox.
Its a total cop out, get the "we have to pay staff and costs" etc, but I had been told previously that most staff dont even get paid if not in work!!
I came across this before when there was a closure and I was met with a point blank blunt response, I get they will have certain costs they will possibly pay on an ongoing basis, maybe monthly like insurance, but nothing like the complete costs put onto parents.

iwillhtfu

Minier81 wrote: »

Job losses is exactly why I am happy to pay my creche. I don't want the staff there to lose their jobs because they can't afford to keep them.

I've paid creche for the entire month of March and told by a staff member yesterday they're not getting paid during the closure. :rolleyes:

Guffy

Minier81 wrote: »

Job losses is exactly why I am happy to pay my creche. I don't want the staff there to lose their jobs because they can't afford to keep them.

Are the staff getting paid? Why aren't they signing on like everyone else? If my place closes i get nothing.

Gooey Looey

My wife is a community crèche worker, she's been told it's unsure whether she'll be paid in full, 70_80% of pay is the figure is all they can manage as they are seeking funding to cover more

c montgomery

My GF works in a creche, she's not getting paid.

My child attends a different creche, staff their won't be paid.

They were all in the dole office today

Sleeper12

My kids are in their late 20s but it irked my 25 years ago that crèches charged a fee to keep the place open for your child while they closed for two weeks at Christmas! Every other business in the world adds this to the weekly free and you don't feel so ripped off.

Can i suggest getting together with other parents and refusing to pay this money. It's a crazy fee BUT paying them for Christmas has gotten them in the habit of getting money for nothing

Sleeper12

As. Nancy Ragen says just say no

1874

Guffy wrote: »

Are the staff getting paid? Why aren't they signing on like everyone else? If my place closes i get nothing.

They proably should get something, I think the issue is that staff arent being paid and parenst are still expected to pay

c montgomery wrote: »

My GF works in a creche, she's not getting paid.

My child attends a different creche, staff their won't be paid.

They were all in the dole office today

Christ, you'd think they'd be able to sign on online, business should have an agreed code that its closed and no pay and then issue that to staff to submit online, save front of house staff in contact and people not getting payed being in contact with everyone, Im I the only one who thinks of this stuff??

Sleeper12 wrote: »

My kids are in their late 20s but it irked my 25 years ago that crèches charged a fee to keep the place open for your child while they closed for two weeks at Christmas! Every other business in the world adds this to the weekly free and you don't feel so ripped off.

Can i suggest getting together with other parents and refusing to pay this money. It's a crazy fee BUT paying them for Christmas has gotten them in the habit of getting money for nothing

Im outright going to start bringing this up with parents I come across, in front of the creche manager if need be, I know some will be like my wife and be too embarrassed to oppose it shut me down as ts an uncomfortable subject.

El Gato De Negocios

It's a hure of a situation. We pay a month in advance so March is paid already. If they tell us we have to pay the full fees for April I dont know what we will do. We are fortunate that our jobs will allow remote working for as long as it is required but the thought of paying €1600 in April with no benefit from it is sickening. The problem is if we decide to pull them out what do we do when (if) this dies down? The creche is great and most of the staff are lovely plus its difficult to find childcare where we are. I'd be happy enough to pay a reduced rate, maybe 60%, enough to pay staff but if this goes on long term I just dont know

Lux23

My brother is a childcare worker and he has had to sign on, I would be cancelling my Direct Debit if a creche said this to me.

mirrorwall14

I have zero issue paying fees IF the staff are being paid. I’ve a massive issue if they are not

Moonbeam

I feel the same, if staff are been paid then I could deal with it but no way would I pay it if the staff are being temporarily laid off.

Foweva Awone

Are there really creches out there charging full fees but not paying their employees? If so that's absolutely disgusting, to be honest I'd be taking my child out of there as a matter of principle.

I believe our creche is charging full fees but only so that they can keep paying their staff. They did invite any parents not being paid for this period to contact them privately to discuss options, which is decent of them.

Sleeper12

Exactly what would you be paying for if the creche is not open?

Any creche owner with a bit of cop on will have temporarily laid off all staff. Staff will get the dole for the few weeks and their tax free allowance for the few weeks will be spread out over the rest of the year. Most are on minimum wage so the dole won't be a massive drop in wages. Factor in no travel or lunch costs.

boc121

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Exactly what would you be paying for if the creche is not open?

Any creche owner with a bit of cop on will have temporarily laid off all staff. Staff will get the dole for the few weeks and their tax free allowance for the few weeks will be spread out over the rest of the year. Most are on minimum wage so the dole won't be a massive drop in wages. Factor in no travel or lunch costs.

How much is the dole for a creche worker?

Gooey Looey

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Exactly what would you be paying for if the creche is not open?

Any creche owner with a bit of cop on will have temporarily laid off all staff. Staff will get the dole for the few weeks and their tax free allowance for the few weeks will be spread out over the rest of the year. Most are on minimum wage so the dole won't be a massive drop in wages. Factor in no travel or lunch costs.

That's the attitude!

If the crèche is trying to pay it's staff then they should be supported if you can afford it, if you can't talk to them

sooty1

Quote: Staff will get the dole for the few weeks and their tax free allowance for the few weeks will be spread out over the rest of the year. Most are on minimum wage so the dole won't be a massive drop in wages. Factor in no travel or lunch costs.


What about creche workers who don't have the 2 years PRSI paid and have to apply for Jobseekers Allowance where their parents income is means tested - some of them will come with next to nothing .........So for lots of these workers there is a massive drop in wages.

Sooty

Sleeper12

sooty1 wrote: »

Quote: Staff will get the dole for the few weeks and their tax free allowance for the few weeks will be spread out over the rest of the year. Most are on minimum wage so the dole won't be a massive drop in wages. Factor in no travel or lunch costs.


What about creche workers who don't have the 2 years PRSI paid and have to apply for Jobseekers Allowance where their parents income is means tested - some of them will come with next to nothing .........So for lots of these workers there is a massive drop in wages.

Sooty

What would any other worker do in such situations? My daughter is in childcare & it seems that the vast majority were laid off around the country.

Sleeper12

boc121 wrote: »

How much is the dole for a creche worker?

About two thirds of their normal take home pay but they have no travel & lunch expenses. Maybe you don't realize how badly paid they are but going on the dole for a few weeks isn't going to make a huge difference to them at the end of the day.



As mentioned already my daughter is in childcare & again across the country many of the parents have engaged staff from their local creche to mind their children so both parents can still work. These deals were worked out on the QT earlier this week when the rumors of a shutdown started. My daughter is part of childcare Facebook groups with members all over Ireland & it looks like very few childcare workers will suffer. Many will make more tax free money over the next few weeks than they would if the creche was still open.

Balmed Out

sooty1 wrote: »

Quote: Staff will get the dole for the few weeks and their tax free allowance for the few weeks will be spread out over the rest of the year. Most are on minimum wage so the dole won't be a massive drop in wages. Factor in no travel or lunch costs.


What about creche workers who don't have the 2 years PRSI paid and have to apply for Jobseekers Allowance where their parents income is means tested - some of them will come with next to nothing .........So for lots of these workers there is a massive drop in wages.

Sooty

I think any drop in wages is far harder for lower paid workers, they won't have anything like the safety net others will and are more likely to be renting rather than owning their home.

AulWan

Cancel your direct debit or standing order.

But be prepared to have to look for a new place when business resumes as normal.

Daz_

AulWan wrote: »

Cancel your direct debit or standing order.

But be prepared to have to look for a new place when business resumes as normal.

That’s what we did and they have since been in touch Asking for reduced payment of 50e per child ..
no way I would pay full amount at this time

Guffy

Guffy wrote: »

Got a text today from the manager advising that the "board of management" have decided that normal fees will apply during the school closure. Wtf? Is this being imposed by all creches? Paying for xmas week was bad enough but 2-5 weeks. They can feck off

Our creche are not charging..
Letter sent out stated no staff wages. No creche fees for closure.

Sebastian Dangerfield

We got a call within 30 mins of Leo's speech to remind us that fees would still have to be paid - including the 7% increase announced a couple of weeks ago.

If only they were as quick to react when we had a question for them.

Sleeper12

Daz_ wrote: »

That’s what we did and they have since been in touch Asking for reduced payment of 50e per child ..
no way I would pay full amount at this time

That's a reasonable request but full fees is taking parents for fools

1874

Is there any legal recourse for this, have no alternative option, tbh, if they were paying staff, Id be less unhappy, but its not simple to get straightforward answer as staff are reluctant to give details, some may get paid and others not.

Toastytoes

AulWan wrote: »

Cancel your direct debit or standing order.

But be prepared to have to look for a new place when business resumes as normal.

If all parents cancelled their DD the crèche would be looking for new clients when business resumes. It works both ways, they can’t run a crèche with no kids. They should at least engage with parents and have a discussion about it. We were told pay up no choice. Full fees is taking the p.

Pawwed Rig

sooty1 wrote: »

Quote: Staff will get the dole for the few weeks and their tax free allowance for the few weeks will be spread out over the rest of the year. Most are on minimum wage so the dole won't be a massive drop in wages. Factor in no travel or lunch costs.

They would be taxable on their dole payments.

Daz_

Sleeper12 wrote: »

That's a reasonable request but full fees is taking parents for fools

Agreed -provided they are guaranteeing the staff wages

mdwexford

Don’t pay it.

This will go on for months. Are people really going to pay a fortune for nothing.

Die Hard 2019

Sleeper12 wrote: »

About two thirds of their normal take home pay but they have no travel & lunch expenses. Maybe you don't realize how badly paid they are but going on the dole for a few weeks isn't going to make a huge difference to them at the end of the day.



As mentioned already my daughter is in childcare & again across the country many of the parents have engaged staff from their local creche to mind their children so both parents can still work. These deals were worked out on the QT earlier this week when the rumors of a shutdown started. My daughter is part of childcare Facebook groups with members all over Ireland & it looks like very few childcare workers will suffer. Many will make more tax free money over the next few weeks than they would if the creche was still open.

Minimum wage is €363 take home

Sleeper12

Pawwed Rig wrote:

They would be taxable on their dole payments.

???

Dole isn't taxable.

bren2002

mdwexford wrote: »

Don’t pay it.

This will go on for months. Are people really going to pay a fortune for nothing.

When we get to the end of this fortnight and possibly to the end of Easter I'll reassess. For the moment though I'm happy to keep paying, I won't see a cut in pay so I'm happy to try and continue to meet existing obligations.

dubrov

I understand the whole rationale of paying creche workers and passing on the costs through fees but even then the creche must be making huge savings on insurance, food, heating, wear and tear etc.

Surely the fair middle ground is reduced fees to cover reduced running costs

eviltwin

Same as everyone else, we are expected to pay. I've already paid for March so I'm happy to let that go but if the closure extends into April it won't be possible. I would pay reduced rates but full fees is ridiculous, is it even legal?

Toastytoes

bren2002 wrote: »

When we get to the end of this fortnight and possibly to the end of Easter I'll reassess. For the moment though I'm happy to keep paying, I won't see a cut in pay so I'm happy to try and continue to meet existing obligations.

Can I ask are you still being paid if you stay home to mind the kids? I’m just curious of how people are managing. We will not be paid to simply stay home for childcare reasons, it’s either annual leave or completely unpaid.

Why are paying customers expected to use annual leave while staff in the crèche are not? It’s the crèche that’s closed. It’s not a good situation for anyone but our crèche won’t meet us any bit of the way.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Toastytoes wrote: »

Can I ask are you still being paid if you stay home to mind the kids? I’m just curious of how people are managing. We will not be paid to simply stay home for childcare reasons, it’s either annual leave or completely unpaid.

Why are paying customers expected to use annual leave while staff in the crèche are not? It’s the crèche that’s closed. It’s not a good situation for anyone but our crèche won’t meet us any bit of the way.

Unfortunately due to the complete lack of intervention by government in childcare for years, creches hold all the power and can dictate the terms. It drives me mad, but I dont see it changing anytime soon.

Toastytoes

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Unfortunately due to the complete lack of intervention by government in childcare for years, creches hold all the power and can dictate the terms. It drives me mad, but I dont see it changing anytime soon.

They have the upper hand in March as we’ve already paid but they’ll be depending on us paying our fees in April to survive. The balance will shift a little then.

pwurple

Full fees is a bit much if they are not paying staff, but any premises has overheads apart from staff.

Rent. Insurance. Electricity. Water. Tax. Gas.

Toastytoes

Sleeper12 wrote: »

???

Dole isn't taxable.

Dole is absolutely taxable. For someone who doesn’t have other earnings all year probably won’t earn enough to go over their tax credits but if you did you would absolutely pay tax on it and there is normally an adjustment of tax credits when someone returns to work to reflect the tax on the dole they received.

Toastytoes

pwurple wrote: »

Full fees is a bit much if they are not paying staff, but any premises has overheads apart from staff.

Rent. Insurance. Electricity. Water. Tax. Gas.

Parents have overheads too, mortgage, food on the table, house insurance, health insurance, electricity, gas, It’s not sustainable for parents who are taking unpaid leave to mind their child to continue paying full fees.

Apparently the matter is on the cabinet agenda for Monday so hopefully there’ll be some measures announced to help.

ax530

Ours charging 50% during these 2 weeks. Will pay staff one week and then lay them off guess with aim of re-employment when open again
Hope government can do something to help them out teachers are getting full pay while off.
Can expect if this goes on months some will not reopen

ax530

Ours charging 50% during these 2 weeks. Will pay staff one week and then lay them off guess with aim of re-employment when open again
Hope government can do something to help them out teachers are getting full pay while off.
Can expect if this goes on months some will not reopen

Sleeper12

ax530 wrote:

Ours charging 50% during these 2 weeks. Will pay staff one week and then lay them off guess with aim of re-employment when open again Hope government can do something to help them out teachers are getting full pay while off. Can expect if this goes on months some will not reopen

I wonder what will happen if the lock down is extended? Northern Ireland looks like they might close schools for 16 weeks in the coming weeks according to reports today

Pawwed Rig

Toastytoes wrote: »

Dole is absolutely taxable. For someone who doesn’t have other earnings all year probably won’t earn enough to go over their tax credits but if you did you would absolutely pay tax on it and there is normally an adjustment of tax credits when someone returns to work to reflect the tax on the dole they received.

In this scenario on the assumption that the person was on 20k they would pay tax at 20% with tax credits of €3,300. So a tax of €700. They may also pay USC and PRSI.
Their gross taxable salary will decrease by the difference in their wages lost and their dole for these weeks.

There will be tax payable and it will not be withheld at source like PAYE. Hopefully their payroll will make the necessary adjustments which does not leave any under payments at year end or else they could get a bill from Revenue next Feb or March

linpoo

Minier81 wrote: »

Job losses is exactly why I am happy to pay my creche. I don't want the staff there to lose their jobs because they can't afford to keep them.

Same....gonna pay as normal.

Sure with NCCS most people get a few quid off anyway.