Creche charging for child's place during closure.

Water John

I think everyone has to play fair here. Something like half seems about right, ATM. Also I think their will be some system put in place to use these workers to look after the children of medical personnel. So the creche may not be out of any wages if the system is joined up. The creche provides the workers to mind children in peoples homes. The Govn't provides the insurance and the wages.
So it could end up being a much smaller, retainer fee to the creche.
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0318/1123846-social-protection/

somesoldiers

Arciphel wrote: »

So in this scenario, parents continue to pay the creche, the creche pay the employees and then at some stage in the future the creche owner will receive the €203 per worker per week refund. Are they then going to divide that up and give it back to the parents who paid their fees during the closure? Are they going to give it to their employees? No, they are most likely going to trouser it. The only people who will get punished here are the parents who continue to pay the fees.

Assuming that (unfortunately) most creche staff are on minimum wage that means their pay is about €414 a week. Deduct €203, it's about half. Taking into account the reduction in utilities, food etc. it seems a common sense solution would be to pay half fees during the closure, if you can. I am being off the wall here?

Also the crèches get government support which they will continue to get during the closure ( or that was the situation earlier in the week at least). ECCE payment of 3 hours per day per qualifying child 3-5 during term time and €20 percent for under 3’s all year round.
Ours have said that this makes up30% of their fees

L'prof

We've paid up for March and I'm ok with that but I see this situation running through the summer. I'd have to seriously consider changing shifts at work and switching to part time in the creche or completely pulling the plug. We've already had to take enough days off work due to regulations around high temperatures, etc. There are plenty that can well afford it and also have a good network of family in the local area to help out when needs be. We're not in either of those positions

pavelpro

Can creche/after school ask for the prove that You lost job to asses your credibility to pay?

I am thinking to give a month notice as we already paid for March and it will be half a month for April to get free from them. I understand their situation but with my wife loosing her job i am not in position to pay them at all. I dont think i will have any difficulty to sign in again if only they not going to take it personally.

salmocab

pavelpro wrote: »

Can creche/after school ask for the prove that You lost job to asses your credibility to pay?

I am thinking to give a month notice as we already paid for March and it will be half a month for April to get free from them. I understand their situation but with my wife loosing her job i am not in position to pay them at all. I dont think i will have any difficulty to sign in again if only they not going to take it personally.

They won’t take it personal they are a business. They may not be around when you try to go back.

sentient_6

I'm switching to working evenings and my wife will stay working days so we can alternate minding the little one, its going to annoy me greatly if this goes into April and if im expected to pay while I end up looking after her all day from usually half 6 in the morning and then working an 8 hour evening.

There has been total silence from the creche and I'm apprehensive to ask because they can be tetchy to say the least.

L'prof

L'prof wrote: »

We've paid up for March and I'm ok with that but I see this situation running through the summer. I'd have to seriously consider changing shifts at work and switching to part time in the creche or completely pulling the plug. We've already had to take enough days off work due to regulations around high temperatures, etc. There are plenty that can well afford it and also have a good network of family in the local area to help out when needs be. We're not in either of those positions

Our crèche has just informed us that they won’t be charging us past 29th of March and will be keeping places. Wasn’t expecting that. Very happy

Arciphel

L'prof wrote: »

Our crèche has just informed us that they won’t be charging us past 29th of March and will be keeping places. Wasn’t expecting that. Very happy

Very decent of them. Are they a chain of creches or a sole operator?

L'prof

Arciphel wrote: »

Very decent of them. Are they a chain of creches or a sole operator?

Sole operator as far as I know

AdMMM

We've paid for this month but will have to contact them about next month because of how uncertain the wages are for us.

I know places are hard to come by for child care, but if closures continue into next month, they wouldn't be able to get in any new kids until they open again. It works in everyone's favour to reach a compromise here.

salmocab

AdMMM wrote: »

We've paid for this month but will have to contact them about next month because of how uncertain the wages are for us.

I know places are hard to come by for child care, but if closures continue into next month, they wouldn't be able to get in any new kids until they open again. It works in everyone's favour to reach a compromise here.

Some won’t open again though. There does need to be a compromise but some won’t reopen. It’s going to be a mess with both parents and providers suffering.

lawred2

Guffy wrote: »

Got a text today from the manager advising that the "board of management" have decided that normal fees will apply during the school closure. Wtf? Is this being imposed by all creches? Paying for xmas week was bad enough but 2-5 weeks. They can feck off

We've gotten some wishy washy buying for time email where the subject of collecting fees was swerved..

With no end in sight to this before September at the earliest, that ten grand we would have paid is staying in our pockets.

One months notice in and direct debit to be cancelled..

Olivia Pope

Our creche contacted today. We have to pay until the end of March as they are paying all staff a full wage until the end of March. We don't have to pay anything after April 1st. One of the creche workers babysits for me and she has confirmed to me that they are being paid until the end of the month. I am happy with that and relieved. One less bill for awhile. This is in Cork City, southern suburb.

lawred2

Olivia Pope wrote: »

Our creche contacted today. We have to pay until the end of March as they are paying all staff a full wage until the end of March. We don't have to pay anything after April 1st. One of the creche workers babysits for me and she has confirmed to me that they are being paid until the end of the month. I am happy with that and relieved. One less bill for awhile. This is in Cork City, southern suburb.

I'd be happy with that.

As it stands, our creche looks like it has no such intentions. Staff are off the payroll next week.

nthclare

When those creches reopen they'll be glad of the money.
They won't be inundated with people banging down their doors that's for sure.

There's going to be a lot of graduates from child care courses who'll more happily work for less than the going rate if the job situation is dire come September.

Friends of mine in the last few weeks are gone from taking home €700 a week to 203 as there's no work for them.

And they've mortgages, rent, and their own families to look after.

Being practical when this settles back to some normality the competition will be fierce and there will be a price war for services.

appledrop

I'm fuming over our creche. We paid March in full + were told to pay April as normal. I contacting them + said I would have no problem paying fees for April if closure remained as not their decision to close once I knew staff were getting paid.

Well I got a response back admitting that staff were told to contact social welfare but could we continue to pay April fees so they could top up staff social welfare.

Wtf. If they already told them to contact social welfare they must have laid them off so why are they then looking for fees. Im so upset for the staff who are being treated like this. They are amazing + shouldn't be worrying about their jobs on a time like this.

I'm going to contact local T.D aswell+ send them a copy of email. I know cornavirus is most important thing at the moment but government better tackle this when over.

1874

Sleeper12 wrote: »

All indicators are pointing to schools not reopening until September. Primary school might make it back for a few weeks in June.

The EU travel ban is for 30 days initially and might be extended. This is a very strong indicator that crèches will be closed for at least another month but probably longer AND the 30 day ban hasn't even started yet. The lock down in China is still in place so again this points to at least two to three months but probably longer. Northern Ireland are taking about closing schools for four months when they do decide to close them. England are taking about 4 months forced isolation for OAPs and people who are at risk.

There is absolutely nothing in the media or coming from the government that suggests that this will end within the next month. Gardai and health board have leased vehicles for an initial four months.

I suggest that you plan for an initial two months with the possibility of it going four months

I think this will go on, and either the Childcare place we use is clueless, has their head buried in the sand or what I think is most likely, they are giving out no information because they just hope/expect parents to keep paying out which is a completely unrealistic situation. I fully expect to get an email containing a veiled threat about our childs place near the end of the month or at the very last minute to put fear into parents who wont have enough time to think it through. I have no intention of being blackmailed.

amadangomor wrote: »

It really is amazing that people are being asked to pay for a service when they are not getting said service.

It is not any consumers of a service's responsibility to pay staff wages when not availing of a service. There are social supports which are set up to deal with situations like this.

This will go on until the summer at least so no creche until September probably and when they do reopen they will be crying out for children to fill the places as the economy will be in trouble with unfortunately many people unemployed.

Don't fall for any emotional blackmail employed by the creches to make you feel like you should pay to keep a place or to contribute to their employees wages

Agreed,

Arciphel wrote: »

So in this scenario, parents continue to pay the creche, the creche pay the employees and then at some stage in the future the creche owner will receive the €203 per worker per week refund. Are they then going to divide that up and give it back to the parents who paid their fees during the closure? Are they going to give it to their employees? No, they are most likely going to trouser it. The only people who will get punished here are the parents who continue to pay the fees.

Assuming that (unfortunately) most creche staff are on minimum wage that means their pay is about €414 a week. Deduct €203, it's about half. Taking into account the reduction in utilities, food etc. it seems a common sense solution would be to pay half fees during the closure, if you can. I am being off the wall here?

I dont expect that off the business we deal with, half cost, not likely, I see no reason in subsidising their business obligations when no service is possible, not even half, especially as we have heard nothing from them, other than the last parting comment by the manager saying its unexpected (not in my opinion) and not their fault (neither is it any parents fault).

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

If our creche is anything to go by, they will play hardball with every parent and tell them that everyone else is paying in full, even if that is not the case. They big up things like bringing the kitchen and facilities up to the required standards like they're doing us a favour.
That's why I will be monitoring here closely and engaging with as many other parents in our creche as possible.

Id like to be able to get in touch with parents, not really much opportunity, other than a passing hello when classes were on, everyone is just busy coming and going in my experience. I think the business in question will play hardball like you say.

youcancallmeal wrote: »

Our creche sent an email shortly after the closure last week to ask us to keep paying so they can pay their staff. We had already paid March fees for our 2 kids but considering not doing so from April omwards. Realistically the creches are going to be closed for months and our job security is tenous at the moment. Like everything Coronavirus related it's a **** situation but I can't justify paying full amount for service we aren't getting

Initially, the Govt responded too little, too late, now they are over doing it, while I agree with social isolationat the moment, Im beginning to wonder if it would be better to maintain whats going on for a time to "flatten the curve" to allow the health service to cope better, but after that to encourage social isolation more for people at risk. Ive been told children can be carriers, but they and other people of a certain age or even health category aren't affected. Im beginning to think this situation has gone past the point where continued isolation will actually help in the longterm.

L'prof wrote: »

Our crèche has just informed us that they won’t be charging us past 29th of March and will be keeping places. Wasn’t expecting that. Very happy

This is realistic and very sensible on their part, no one need pay for a service they cant avail of, no worry or concern about getting customers for them.

Water John

I'm beginning to think this situation has gone past the point where continued isolation will actually help in the longterm. 1874 Quote.

Really dangerous thinking. We know about 20% of positive tests need hospitalisation. The number is going up exponentially. If we reach 15,000 positives by the end of the month, about 3,000 will have been hospitalised. Worse is the number needing ventilators, which we don't have.
Medics in a few weeks may have to decide, basically who lives and dies. I'm not being alarmist. Our only action that can limit the number infected is, social isolation.

1874

Water John wrote: »

I'm beginning to think this situation has gone past the point where continued isolation will actually help in the longterm. 1874 Quote.

Really dangerous thinking. We know about 20% of positive tests need hospitalisation. The number is going up exponentially. If we reach 15,000 positives by the end of the month, about 3,000 will have been hospitalised. Worse is the number needing ventilators, which we don't have.
Medics in a few weeks may have to decide, basically who lives and dies. I'm not being alarmist. Our only action that can limit the number infected is, social isolation.

As I said, in the longterm, as at that point, so many people will have gotten it and hopefully have developed some kind of immunity, and until a vaccine is developed, now is not longterm.

Now, isolation, absolutely,
Im suggesting, down the road, those that are most likely to be affected might be better or essential to isolate themselves AND also potentially first in line to receive a vaccination.
We cant all stay isolated forever,
It will be said its easy for me to say, but I was full on early on for banning flights from affected areas, closing down large gatherings and not allowing entry or Quarantining or returning anyone immediately who arrives here from those places (unfortunately there is nor ever was any plan for that), seems we could have the ability and spaces but no will (infrastructure/reserves/plan) to carry it out, and as drastic as that seems even now it would have done a lot more to flatten the curve and protected vulnerable people more before we got to where we are now.

Jem123

My creche is charging full fees for the 2 weeks. I will pay for those 2 weeks then will have to stop as my salary has been reduced by 50%. Working from home and minding 3 kids

Neyite

Ours is a small local indie creche, run by a local lady. There's not much other local alternatives so it's really a matter of us supporting each other.

The owner has asked for half fees to the end of the month to allow her to pay staff and to pay pressing overheads so that's fair. And they've offered private childcare to anyone who has to work such as nursing or emergency services, which is fairly sound of them.

Financially (for now!) we are not impacted by C19 and can work from home so while I only use a small amount of afterschool I let them know that I intended to pay as usual based on that. Apparently quite a few other parents have offered similar and I hope more do if they can. It's more about ensuring we have a creche when all this is over.

polydactyl

I had no problem paying for the full two weeks of March as we are still earning but as we both work front line for the HSE we both need to go in to work in all this so need to arrange alternate childcare. I certainly can’t afford to pay the Creche and in addition someone else to mind my kids regardless of them losing a place. I’ll have to risk it if that’s the case. I could manage reduced fees possibly while paying someone else but can’t do both.

jlm29

polydactyl wrote: »

I had no problem paying for the full two weeks of March as we are still earning but as we both work front line for the HSE we both need to go in to work in all this so need to arrange alternate childcare. I certainly can’t afford to pay the Creche and in addition someone else to mind my kids regardless of them losing a place. I’ll have to risk it if that’s the case. I could manage reduced fees possibly while paying someone else but can’t do both.

I wonder have the government any plans to help people in your situation. It’s crazy that they’re paying teachers full wages, paying crèche workers whatever benefit they’re getting and you’re having to worry about this, in addition to all the other worries your job brings at the moment. Similar problems for shop workers, and all essential services that can’t operate from home. There surely should be some arrangement for the above to offer some childcare, however it would be rolled out, using school or crèche buildings. I’ll be in a similar position in a few weeks as will be returning to work post mat leave. My childminder may still take my kids, but she’s >60, so I’d really rather not ask.

salmocab

jlm29 wrote: »

I wonder have the government any plans to help people in your situation. It’s crazy that they’re paying teachers full wages, paying crèche workers whatever benefit they’re getting and you’re having to worry about this, in addition to all the other worries your job brings at the moment. Similar problems for shop workers, and all essential services that can’t operate from home. There surely should be some arrangement for the above to offer some childcare, however it would be rolled out, using school or crèche buildings. I’ll be in a similar position in a few weeks as will be returning to work post mat leave. My childminder may still take my kids, but she’s >60, so I’d really rather not ask.

The answer isn’t using school or crèche buildings as the mixing of children is why they are closed down.

jlm29

salmocab wrote: »

The answer isn’t using school or crèche buildings as the mixing of children is why they are closed down.

I’m not suggesting that the schools should reopen, but if every teacher in my sons school took just four children in a class room, they could be kept >2M apart, and there would be 40 children that frontline workers wouldn’t be stressing about what to do with in the day times. For insurance reasons etc, we couldn’t exactly ask our kids teachers to pop over to our house to mind them.
I’m not saying this is the answer, I’m just saying that if this is going to be ongoing, and it is, someone needs to come up with a system that supports frontline workers rather than adding childcare to a long list of worries

salmocab

jlm29 wrote: »

I’m not suggesting that the schools should reopen, but if every teacher in my sons school took just four children in a class room, they could be kept >2M apart, and there would be 40 children that frontline workers wouldn’t be stressing about what to do with in the day times. For insurance reasons etc, we couldn’t exactly ask our kids teachers to pop over to our house to mind them.
I’m not saying this is the answer, I’m just saying that if this is going to be ongoing, and it is, someone needs to come up with a system that supports frontline workers rather than adding childcare to a long list of worries

It’s not the answer, children need to be kept apart and that wouldn’t happen in your scenario. There does need to be something setup alright and I’d think childcare workers that are Garda vetted and probably on either reduced payments or SW minding at the child’s home is far more feasible than opening places that are shut to stop the spread.

jlm29

salmocab wrote: »

It’s not the answer, children need to be kept apart and that wouldn’t happen in your scenario. There does need to be something setup alright and I’d think childcare workers that are Garda vetted and probably on either reduced payments or SW minding at the child’s home is far more feasible than opening places that are shut to stop the spread.

Except that if the carer trips and breaks their leg whilst minding the kids, there’s no insurance cover in place.

salmocab

jlm29 wrote: »

Except that if the carer trips and breaks their leg whilst minding the kids, there’s no insurance cover in place.

So you want someone to come up with a system but think that insurance is insurmountable? People look after kids in people’s homes every day I’d be confident something could be easily done on that score.

jlm29

salmocab wrote: »

So you want someone to come up with a system but think that insurance is insurmountable? People look after kids in people’s homes every day I’d be confident something could be easily done on that score.

No, I don’t think it’s insurmountable. I just think we’ve proven in this country time and time again that it tends to be a major issue.

salmocab

jlm29 wrote: »

No, I don’t think it’s insurmountable. I just think we’ve proven in this country time and time again that it tends to be a major issue.

I’d say insurance would be one of the simplest parts to sort out.