Covid-19; Impact on the aviation industry

Calina

sparrowcar wrote: »

I wasn't suggesting you were arguing.
Just pointing out that the 2015 deal was when the Irish state still had some influence.

I don't think it did tbh.

sparrowcar

Calina wrote: »

I don't think it did tbh.

You could be right.

We will see much more of this over the next few months in many industries not just aviation. Anyone getting 5/6/7 weeks per year is doing very well. Many companies are going with statutory end of conversation. Harsh times ahead.

Jack1985

The Irish Gov hadn't had influence for years in EI with its reduced shareholding prior to sale. EI dropping the SNN-LHR route in 2007 for a period is testament to that.

The difference between now and 2015 was the financial health of the company.

Acosta

Jack1985 wrote: »

They haven't pulled anything the vast majority of Ireland routes are suspended due to floored demand.

Aer Lingus Regional have launched Belfast services which were being planned back in March post the collapse of Flybe.

They have temporarily anyway. But suspended would have been a better way to put it. The Cork based planes are now in Belfast.

WishUWereHere

Just seen this on Sky News:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-entire-flight-to-cardiff-told-to-self-isolate-after-seven-confirmed-covid-19-cases-12059838

Anything but good news for the aviation industry.

Jack1985

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Just seen this on Sky News:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-entire-flight-to-cardiff-told-to-self-isolate-after-seven-confirmed-covid-19-cases-12059838

Anything but good news for the aviation industry.

This will happen, as it will happen in any setting i.e. restaurants/gyms it doesn't warrant mass hysteria.

How many actually contract the virus, if any post 14 days won't be brought to your attention via Sky News.

Jack1985

Acosta wrote: »

They have temporarily anyway. But suspended would have been a better way to put it. The Cork based planes are now in Belfast.

Cork has 3 stationed Stobart aircraft. Belfast will have 5 eventually, Dublin has 6 but currently just two are in operation in Dublin.

Airline fleets are fluid especially in the Republic and it's not a case of Belfast taking aircraft from anywhere. Stobart have the capacity to be able to station the above amount of aircraft in those bases as specified.

Locker10a

Acosta wrote: »

They have temporarily anyway. But suspended would have been a better way to put it. The Cork based planes are now in Belfast.

Stobart actually have a surplus of aircraft as some were on contract for Flybe, so those planes will be deployed in Belfast

billy few mates

gral6 wrote: »

When these idiots are gonna come up with updated list of green countries? It is not even funny anymore, total failure and shambles.

The problem is we wouldn't even make it onto our own green list now. When the list first came out we were at 4.7 cases per 100,000 (Malta was about 2.5, UK was 25) at the time. They initially planned to only have countries with a figure similar or lower than ours but eventually decided to settle for countries with a figure less than 10.
Today we're at 31.2, Malta is at 101.5 and the UK is now less than us at 23.0.


https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

Marcusm

sparrowcar wrote: »

DAA is a semi state and EI is privately owned by IAG. Different parameters at play.

DAA is supposed to be COMMERCIAL semi-State so theoretically it should not have the resources a comparable non-state owned company has to finance redundancies.

smurfjed

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Just seen this on Sky News:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-entire-flight-to-cardiff-told-to-self-isolate-after-seven-confirmed-covid-19-cases-12059838

Anything but good news for the aviation industry.

this will go one of two ways, if 7 people got onboard whilst sick and got off without infecting anyone else, its not a major issue, but if a large number of the others passengers now test positive, then aviation has another massive problem.

WishUWereHere

smurfjed wrote: »

this will go one of two ways, if 7 people got onboard whilst sick and got off without infecting anyone else, its not a major issue, but if a large number of the others passengers now test positive, then aviation has another massive problem.

Agree Smurfjed. Whatever the outcome is, this kind of news is not what airline bosses want to hear /listen/read.

TRANQUILLO

I feel sorry for pilots and engineers who have pumped hard earned cash into type ratings and training for the industry to collapse around them like this. Nowhere to emigrate to and no equivalent industry to immediately transfer their skills/qualifications to. While the virus is a natural phenomenon the response has been wholly man made and to get the dole rate as it currently is , is a slap in the face for these people who are suffering at the expense of draconian interventionist policies.

To go from a 6 figure salary to 208 euro a week in an industry that was booming in December is a bitter pill. I myself got an 11k 2019 performance bonus in January and now find myself unemployed with no where to go.

1123heavy

Indeed, we were one of the highest tax payers in the country and we took nothing out of the system (no medical cards, HAP etc) and we are now the least entitled of all, getting a pittance for all of our contributions.

gral6

I hate the way this gov treated aviation industry here in Ireland. Total shambles

bk

1123heavy wrote: »

Indeed, we were one of the highest tax payers in the country and we took nothing out of the system (no medical cards, HAP etc) and we are now the least entitled of all, getting a pittance for all of our contributions.

I've always argued that we should implement the Swedish unemployment payment model, much fairer IMO.

If you have been working more then a year and are made unemployed, you receive 80% of your salary for the first 100 days, 70% for 200 days after that, only after that does it fall to the base rate of unemployment payments.

Tenger

Another aviation related ripple from Covid.
Thompson Aerospace based in Craigavon, who manufacture the Business class seats used by Aer Lingus (As well as JetBlue and Qantas among others) are planning to lay off a lot of staff.

Limpy

I hope it works out for all involved in the aviation industry, When this ****e is over the Boom will be back again. Hopefully the damage will be reparable.

HTCOne

Tenger wrote: »

Another aviation related ripple from Covid.
Thompson Aerospace based in Craigavon, who manufacture the Business class seats used by Aer Lingus (As well as JetBlue and Qantas among others) are planning to lay off a lot of staff.

This time last year people were whinging about EI-GEY not having the EI J class because there was a 5 year waiting list to get Thompson Aero seats. Just shows the utter devastation occurring within the industry, 5 years of work up in smoke.

Jack1985

Ryanair expected to initiate further cuts to/from ROI. Hardly surprsing load factors generally to/from Ireland are terrible, below 20% is typical. No confirmation of percentage cuts on top of the 20% already initiated.

smurfjed

HTCOne wrote: »

This time last year people were whinging about EI-GEY not having the EI J class because there was a 5 year waiting list to get Thompson Aero seats. Just shows the utter devastation occurring within the industry, 5 years of work up in smoke.

How can this be the case? If they had a 5 year backlog, i can see that reducing to 4 years or 3 years, even 1, but how does it drop to the degree where they are laying off staff?

smurfjed

Jack1985 wrote: »

Ryanair expected to initiate further cuts to/from ROI. Hardly surprsing load factors generally to/from Ireland are terrible, below 20% is typical. No confirmation of percentage cuts on top of the 20% already initiated.

Their stock price is reflecting this.

Cookiemunster

smurfjed wrote: »

How can this be the case? If they had a 5 year backlog, i can see that reducing to 4 years or 3 years, even 1, but how does it drop to the degree where they are laying off staff?

Airlines going bust or cost cutting and cancelling orders will drop that order book pretty fast.

HTCOne

smurfjed wrote: »

How can this be the case? If they had a 5 year backlog, i can see that reducing to 4 years or 3 years, even 1, but how does it drop to the degree where they are laying off staff?

As I recall they had major contracts underway with Swiss, Lufthansa, Austrian and Delta among others. As Cookiemunster says cancelled aircraft orders and airlines going under is a big problem, but there’s also entire fleets of A330s/757s/767s/777s etc that may have been about to undergo a major cabin overhaul but instead are being mothballed. Delta were just finishing putting in a new premium cabin on the 777s before deciding to scrap them, the 767s were up next, but there’s no certainty whether they’ll even be flying after CARES expires so that’s on hold.

TRANQUILLO

Limpy wrote: »

I hope it works out for all involved in the aviation industry, When this ****e is over the Boom will be back again. Hopefully the damage will be reparable.

I'd like to think that something can be done with regards to recency because there are no jobs and its hard to get work without being up to date on you recency or logbook . If im unemployed for another year my ratings will all lapse rendering me less employable than the next man. Its a downward spiral.

AnRothar

bk wrote: »

I've always argued that we should implement the Swedish unemployment payment model, much fairer IMO.

If you have been working more then a year and are made unemployed, you receive 80% of your salary for the first 100 days, 70% for 200 days after that, only after that does it fall to the base rate of unemployment payments.

30years ago we had a tiered system where unemployment BENEFIT was linked to previous salary.
This was seen by some as "unfair".

Over the years since the differential has been eroded to the situation we now have that you will only qualify for "BENEFIT" for approximately 9 months then you must seem means tested " jobseekers allowance ".

cson

smurfjed wrote: »

How can this be the case? If they had a 5 year backlog, i can see that reducing to 4 years or 3 years, even 1, but how does it drop to the degree where they are laying off staff?

Simple example; Air France in 2019 had committed to refurbing the A380 fleet (~10 aircraft), they each have 80 J class seats, so that's 800 seats that potentially were on order that are now struck off the order book now that AF have retired the fleet and they're being scrapped in NOC (depending on the lessor). I don't have any accurate idea how long it takes to manufacture a seat, but I'd speculate there's a fair few months work in 800 seats.

billy few mates

cson wrote: »

Simple example; Air France in 2019 had committed to refurbing the A380 fleet (~10 aircraft), they each have 80 J class seats, so that's 800 seats that potentially were on order that are now struck off the order book now that AF have retired the fleet and they're being scrapped in NOC (depending on the lessor). I don't have any accurate idea how long it takes to manufacture a seat, but I'd speculate there's a fair few months work in 800 seats.

Plus they probably had already sourced all the materials to build those seats which their own suppliers would be unlikely to take back as they'll now be in trouble themselves. There'll be other companies affected too, Thomson basically only build the seats and install the seat electronic units but the IFE components are usually provided by different companies, Thomson just fit them for the customer to the manufacturers spec, they don't do IFE themselves.

California Dreamer

Are CityJet all but gone?

goingnowhere

You won't see CityJet operating any flights under the brand anymore

Aer Lingus terminated the LCY Avro franchise/lease arrangement as did Brussels Airlines when COVID hit