Covid-19; Impact on the aviation industry

bombs away

Tenzor07 wrote: »

"Could return"..... "Too early.."Certainly, at some stage over the next number of months"... "wouldn't give an exact date" ... " “But, the exact date we have to hold back on. "“So, let’s just take it step by step."....

How can anyone listen to this Government? Ryan is only focused on reducing carbon emissions and would love noting better than to have a tiny aviation sector and people holidaying locally only.

Suppose the main positive to take from it is that they are talking about it. And as the Covid passports come on stream and will be enshrined in European legislation, any traveller who qualifies for one can’t be refused one from their respective government.

Tenger

bombs away wrote: »

Suppose the main positive to take from it is that they are talking about it. And as the Covid passports come on stream and will be enshrined in European legislation, any traveller who qualifies for one can’t be refused one from their respective government.

Indeed. I’ve no respect for Eamon Ryan but at least the conversation about aviation and travel is happening. The IT article featuring Simon Coveney was very bleak with a headline of “travelling abroad is against the law”

basill

MOL has business pax now eh. That brought a chuckle.

Chris_5339762

basill wrote: »

MOL has business pax now eh. That brought a chuckle.

Probably quite a few. Any business travel I've done has been on Ryanair "book the cheapest"

Nijmegen

basill wrote: »

MOL has business pax now eh. That brought a chuckle.

Quite successfully so, I would say - once they introduced assigned seats, priority queueing and a few other bits and pieces, like the ability to have rebookable tickets, Ryanair became pretty accessible for most business travelers. I found them easier to use in some instances than others, eg having easier to use airports in some places (once you get over the fact that it's a shed, and realise that means there's a straight line 50 meters from the front door to the airplane). Probably the biggest harm to them of late has been that the priority queue is now as long as the regular one.

Blut2

I'd never use them on a route I can claim miles for flying with a legacy airline if I have an equal choice. But I've personally flown them quite a few times on business travel when either they fly to an airport thats better logistically, or they have more convenient flight times flying to a main airport.

I'd rather an Aer Lingus flight over a Ryanair one at roughly the same time, to the same location, any day. But if the EI flight is at 6am, and the FR one is at lunch time... I'm flying FR.

L1011

There are some business heavy routes like DUB-BSL - pharma industry - where they go direct (In normal times) and nobody else does. Plenty of circumstances where business travelers may use Ryanair.

The Ryanair flight being at lunchtime on a route is a reason that route generally won't, though

bk

When people think of business travel, they are usually thinking of something like silicon valley executives flying Business or first class to SFO.

But in reality it is an entire spectrum of business travel, with the other end being lots of ordinary folks like sales people, consultants, technicians, etc. flying to the likes of London for meetings every few days in the "cheap" seats.

BigMoose

Or in my case flying to SFO to my silicon valley HQ down the back in the cheap seats...

I also (used to!) use Ryanair a fair bit for business travel but agree with what others have said, if there's an EI flight to the same destination I'll choose it for collecting the miles. But often there isn't and Ryanair it is. But choose a seat near the front, make some effort not to be at the back of the long priority queue so my carry on can go vaguely near me and expense whatever food/drink I fancy on board and it's not a bad experience..!

goingnowhere

BigMoose wrote: »

Or in my case flying to SFO to my silicon valley HQ down the back in the cheap seats...

I know that feeling all too well, just about bearable on s Saturday and way nicer than the old days of LHR or ORD routines. Was told to stay quiet about riding in business when EI upgraded me... 3/5k was heaven on the way out.

The loop over Menlo Park on approach was always fun for the facebook and googlers on board.

EI was making a profit on SFO on a full J cabin and freight in the hold, each cheap seat sold was effectively profit, so the J cabin is going to be fairly light going forward. The cheap seat riders like myself will get one trip a year not 2-3 as before so the economics will be interesting and its going to be challenging outside of Summer to have the 95% load factors, the SFO flight went out full regularly

bk

BigMoose wrote: »

Or in my case flying to SFO to my silicon valley HQ down the back in the cheap seats...

LOL, yep same here. Noise cancelling headphones make it just about bearable.

goingnowhere wrote: »

The cheap seat riders like myself will get one trip a year not 2-3 as before so the economics will be interesting and its going to be challenging outside of Summer to have the 95% load factors, the SFO flight went out full regularly

Yeah, same here, most likely once a year rather than a few times a year going forward.

California Dreamer

Ryanair may cancel Irish routes over quarantine

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0425/1211998-ryanair/

More bluster from Ryanair. Pushing the same rhetoric they been doing for years. Anything to get a mention in the media.

IngazZagni

California Dreamer wrote: »

Ryanair may cancel Irish routes over quarantine

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0425/1211998-ryanair/

More bluster from Ryanair. Pushing the same rhetoric they been doing for years. Anything to get a mention in the media.

Hardly bluster when they've actually done it... All those routes cancelled for May according to the app.

IngazZagni

IngazZagni wrote: »

Hardly bluster when they've actually done it... All those routes cancelled for May according to the app.

and plenty more beside. Those 9.99 tickets count for nothing when they've cancelled the flights

PommieBast

Grim piece in the FT about banks slashing business trips by 50% of 2019 levels.
It is behind a hard paywall so unreadable but it can be summed up as a mix of cost-cutting and greenwash, which I have long suspected were the real reasons.

California Dreamer

IngazZagni wrote: »

Hardly bluster when they've actually done it... All those routes cancelled for May according to the app.

But it was always going to happen either way. EI have cancelled a lot up to June but my point was Ryanair go for the BIG news all the time in an effort to get media coverage.

davebuck

California Dreamer wrote: »

But it was always going to happen either way. EI have cancelled a lot up to June but my point was Ryanair go for the BIG news all the time in an effort to get media coverage.

Have to be honest I agree witgh Ryanair on this one the lack of a roadmap for aviation to start the return to travel is hard to believe and terrible for all the workers who are connected to aviation and the wider tourism business.
Aer Lingus have already warned of the loss of more routes and jobs as well due to then lack of clarity on the return to travel so I think it's just a case of calling it out rather than Big news.

California Dreamer

davebuck wrote: »

Have to be honest I agree witgh Ryanair on this one the lack of a roadmap for aviation to start the return to travel is hard to believe and terrible for all the workers who are connected to aviation and the wider tourism business.
Aer Lingus have already warned of the loss of more routes and jobs as well due to then lack of clarity on the return to travel so I think it's just a case of calling it out rather than Big news.

Ok so, maybe i am just sick of the usual Ryanair schtick when it suits their agenda.

Beechwoodspark

California Dreamer wrote: »

Ok so, maybe i am just sick of the usual Ryanair schtick when it suits their agenda.

Same here. Ryanair have behaved particularly badly during the pandemic

So many have told me they will boycott Ryanair for many years/life after this cr*p from them

Beechwoodspark

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

So many have told me they will boycott Ryanair for many years/life after this cr*p from them

Have you been getting out and about much in the lockdown to talk to all these people in a socially distant manner or just reaching out to them through Skype? Knowing your distaste for Ryanair if I met you'd I'd just be inclined to agree with you if put on a spot just so that I could avoid uncomfortableness.

duskyjoe2

I don’t think it’s big news from ryanair or a scoop - like AL they are hurtin and will in a heart beat follow the scent of revenue . With zero road map on the horizon and an inept minister at the helm in the biggest crisis ever for the aviation industry, I really despair.

john boye

California Dreamer wrote: »

Ok so, maybe i am just sick of the usual Ryanair schtick when it suits their agenda.

Ryanair's years of using the media to threaten airports/governments etc probably don't help them here. Any warnings can just come across as the same old bleeting we've heard for years

Tenger

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

......
......
......
So many have told me they will boycott Ryanair for many years/life after this cr*p from them

Cheap tickets in the future will do wonders to overturn such views.

Blut2

Plenty of people on the internet, and in real life, regularly claim they're going to boycott Ryanair. But pretty much every year they're still Europe's most successful airline.

At the end of the day the vast, vast majority of people choose with their wallet when push comes to shove, not their morals.

Beechwoodspark

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Have you been getting out and about much in the lockdown to talk to all these people in a socially distant manner or just reaching out to them through Skype? Knowing your distaste for Ryanair if I met you'd I'd just be inclined to agree with you if put on a spot just so that I could avoid uncomfortableness.

Well. Since you ask.

Yep. I work on a daily basis for an essential industry (groceries/food). I observe social distancing at all times.

I would prefer to work from home and it was working well while I did but in July last year I was more or less threatened with the sack unless I resumed my travelling role.

Nijmegen

California Dreamer wrote: »

Ryanair may cancel Irish routes over quarantine

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0425/1211998-ryanair/

More bluster from Ryanair. Pushing the same rhetoric they been doing for years. Anything to get a mention in the media.

On the one hand, they have been putting their money where their mouth is re moving the fleet, bases, etc. On the other hand, they are nimble AF and will fly back in the moment they see Wizz or EasyJet decide to pitch a tent in Dublin as the market demand returns. The issue is more for jobs in Ireland servicing them than the availability of bucket and spade routes when the pandemic abates.

PommieBast wrote: »

Grim piece in the FT about banks slashing business trips by 50% of 2019 levels.
It is behind a hard paywall so unreadable but it can be summed up as a mix of cost-cutting and greenwash, which I have long suspected were the real reasons.

I was in some meetings with several banks recently discussing corporate banking needs. Every one of them talked about green credentials, green loans, greening your investments, capital to support green programmes. You'd almost think there was a wave of tax breaks coming for the activity or something....! But yes, it is genuinely front of mind in the corporate zeitgeist at the moment - and it's never great news when the right-on corporate social responsibility types have their most ardent supporter in the CFO as they cut out all those travel expenses.

Chris_5339762

Absolutely Everyone in Ireland will want to go to Spain after all this is over. Ryanair will be back in like a shot, faster than AL and faster than any others. O Leary knows this too.

gral6

Joe Walsh tours and the 10 company names it trades under has gone bust.
More to follow...

Masala

gral6 wrote: »

Joe Walsh tours and the 10 company names it trades under has gone bust.
More to follow...

They were on Ryanair hit list I would say anyway.... got an email from Ryanair yesterday WARNING against using Travel Agents / Tour Operators for Ryanair flights giving impression that they won’t work with passenger if any problems

L1011

gral6 wrote: »

Joe Walsh tours and the 10 company names it trades under has gone bust.
More to follow...

You're still thread banned you know. I'll "let you away" with it this time but next time is a card. Do not reply to this post

conor_mc

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Absolutely Everyone in Ireland will want to go to Spain after all this is over. Ryanair will be back in like a shot, faster than AL and faster than any others. O Leary knows this too.

Don’t forget though that the economic objective/jobs angle is to have aircraft and therefore jobs based in Dublin.

Ryanair will be back on DUB-Spain routes for sure, but what if they just operate them with Spain-based aircraft and crew? That is the risk.

arccosh

I've only ever come across one person who went through the "I won't fly Ryanair" threat....and they genuinely did it.... to the point where we met up with them in Leeds and they chose to fly into Manchester and get the train to Leeds to avoid using Ryanair, even though Ryanair flew to Leeds....

That's the sort of back bone nobody has.

Tenzor07

conor_mc wrote: »

Ryanair will be back on DUB-Spain routes for sure, but what if they just operate them with Spain-based aircraft and crew? That is the risk.

I guess they can service Dublin from any base, though STN and BGY ...

I can see them basing more aircraft in those airports to meet demand, maybe fly in some aircraft for parking and servicing in Dublin...

Unless of course this Government lifts MHQ for EU countries and adopts any common travel passes too... may rescue some of the season for travel abroad here...

arccosh

If there is a sniff of a profit, Ryanair will be back.... it's not like Heathrow where if you leave you give up slots

MrMusician18

arccosh wrote: »

I've only ever come across one person who went through the "I won't fly Ryanair" threat....and they genuinely did it.... to the point where we met up with them in Leeds and they chose to fly into Manchester and get the train to Leeds to avoid using Ryanair, even though Ryanair flew to Leeds....

That's the sort of back bone nobody has.

Well yes and no. Ryanair did change tack regarding customer service a few years ago, trying to brush off the crass don't care about customers image it had created over the previous decade. And the reason they did that was because it was hurting their growth. They saw that they were losing customers to rivals with a more relaxed attitude and shareholders were sick of it. It wasn't because people wouldn't fly with them, they noticed that they had to keep fares significantly lower than rivals in order to entice passengers so they would put up with the additional stress that comes with flying with them.

So it wasn't I'll never fly Ryanair, it was "for only £30 more, I'll fly easyJet/AL and I'll have a nicer experience"

mr.anonymous

IAA reports a €900k loss for 2020. Traffic down from 1.17mil to 498,000 flights (2019-2020, 60% decrease). The Authority says a restart of aviation in summer should be a priority.

Also, from their annual report:
The IAA will split in to two entities - one for regulation, one for ANSP.
New tower in Dublin will be fully operational this year.

Darwin

Cookiemunster wrote: »

838,644 first doses administered as of Friday. 250,000 a week is the target that they've set. If they push out the second dose of Pfizer past 4 weeks (which is rumoured to be happening), the 80% will have had their first dose well before the end of June.

Didn't take too long for NHPET to acknowledge that is being optimistic:

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0428/1212527-vaccine-ireland/

Noxegon

MrMusician18 wrote: »

So it wasn't I'll never fly Ryanair, it was "for only £30 more, I'll fly easyJet/AL and I'll have a nicer experience"

In recent years I've found there's little if no difference in experience between Aer Lingus short haul and Ryanair.

MrMusician18

Noxegon wrote: »

In recent years I've found there's little if no difference in experience between Aer Lingus short haul and Ryanair.

That was the desired outcome, Ryanair improved their customer service and dropped the Paddy Power-esque marketing to make themselves "friendlier".

Those that avoid Ryanair now are those customers that they've annoyed. With the friendly approach, the idea is that there are fewer of those, so they only now need to be a little rather than a lot cheaper to win custom.

The stupid brash behaviour comes out the odd time as you can take the man out of the bog but not the bog out of the man - no matter how much customer and PR training they've got.

Inquitus

Noxegon wrote: »

In recent years I've found there's little if no difference in experience between Aer Lingus short haul and Ryanair.

Same applies to pretty much all short haul in Europe, BA v Aer Lingus v Ryanair et al. There are a few notable exceptions like Lufthansa who will still offer you a nice bottle of Warsteiner, but for most Dublin outbound flights the only difference is how far the walk to the gate is.

Kcormahs

Inquitus wrote: »

Same applies to pretty much all short haul in Europe, BA v Aer Lingus v Ryanair et al. There are a few notable exceptions like Lufthansa who will still offer you a nice bottle of Warsteiner, but for most Dublin outbound flights the only difference is how far the walk to the gate is.

Lufthansa group is introducing Buy on board services on SH across all its 4 flag airlines including Lufthansa (Brussels Airlines had already adopted this much before it was acquired by the group).

Thank covid19 for that one.


https://www.exyuaviation.com/2020/11/lufthansa-group-to-adopt-buy-on-board.html?m=1

cson

I'd actually take an FR seat (and moreso EI) over the genuinely horrendous Recaro slimlines that BA put into their A32Xneo's. I had the misfortune of having to an FCO-LHR segment on one a couple of years ago. Comparable to Spirit Airlines.

PommieBast

cson wrote: »

I'd actually take an FR seat (and moreso EI) over the genuinely horrendous Recaro slimlines that BA put into their A32Xneo's. I had the misfortune of having to an FCO-LHR segment on one a couple of years ago. Comparable to Spirit Airlines.

My lasting memory of BA is them not offloading hold luggage at LHR for something like 4 hours, and as a result missed the last trains/coaches. Cue £125 taxi ride..

L1011

General FR/EI/BA/Etc comparisons to another thread please

davebuck

Not really good news for Ireland in the current conditions quote from the DAA below.

A year ago Dublin ranked fifth in Europe in terms of connectivity to the US and we are now at number 15 and that’s slipping quickly.”

The greater the uncertainty, the more likely airlines were to reduce services into Ireland, he said: “About 10 days ago a very large US carrier significantly restricted capacity into Ireland for the summer of ’21. For goodness sake, Aer Lingus have just repositioned some of their aircraft into Manchester.

arccosh

unfortunately it pivots on an EU consensus on opening up, which pivots on the vaccine rollout...

May was supposed to be the big month air travel starts to resume, but with low vaccine rollout numbers across the EU, I see that slipping....

all eyes will be on the UK, as they still seem to be on course.... but without the EU fully on board, their opening up will be hindered also.

Beechwoodspark

PommieBast wrote: »

My lasting memory of BA is them not offloading hold luggage at LHR for something like 4 hours, and as a result missed the last trains/coaches. Cue £125 taxi ride..

Had a similar dismal experience with BA. Never again

Chris_5339762

arccosh wrote: »

unfortunately it pivots on an EU consensus on opening up, which pivots on the vaccine rollout...

...and this governments inevitably dallying over a re-opening of travel, regardless of EU rules

Inquitus

The EU Commission has recommended easing restrictions on non-essential travel from overseas.

Under the plans, anyone who has received the last dose of an EU-approved vaccine at least two weeks beforehand will be permitted to travel.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56970398

Requires 2 doses of all 2 dose vaccines and only granted 2 weeks after the 2nd dose, at least in it's current proposed form, this seems to apply to those from outside the bloc, it is not clear what the agreement is for intra-EU travel and how Schengen v Non-Schengen may impact things. Still pretty grey but looking more hopeful!

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0503/1213468-european-travel-commission/

HTCOne

Inquitus wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56970398

Requires 2 doses of all 2 dose vaccines and only granted 2 weeks after the 2nd dose, at least in it's current proposed form, this seems to apply to those from outside the bloc, it is not clear what the agreement is for intra-EU travel and how Schengen v Non-Schengen may impact things. Still pretty grey but looking more hopeful!

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0503/1213468-european-travel-commission/

I can see Ireland failing to take part in any scheme allowing unrestricted travel for those fully vaccinated for a few months yet, only because those who’ll be waiting til Q3 for their second dose would likely go ballistic.

Were it up to me, we’d have announced it already, and be doing everything we can to attract the yanks in like the Spanish, Greeks, French & Italians have already announced from June.