FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

jimgoose

seamus wrote: »

...why are SF trying to form a government without FF?...

Because there's only one group SF hates more than FG, and that's... :pac:

Yurt2

jimgoose wrote: »

It's politics, yes, as expounded by professional politicians, you know, all the major parties, possibly even SF. You were expecting maybe brick-laying? Dentistry? Offshore sea-angling?? :pac:

Hint: Erwin Rommel didn't go about his business by running headlong for the first gap he saw.

To paraphrase from a movie where old Erwin features in, I doubt that Leo has read that son of a bitch's book.

If and when the electorate go back to the polls because Leo spurns both SF and FF, some of the posts on this thread will go off quicker than milk left out of the fridge.

It's looking like FF will refuse to do business with Mary Lou. If so, the questions I've posed in the thread will start coming into play and the heat of the media and the public will shift back to FG.

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

They didn’t even get 24 hours of happiness with the result! Back to moaning about the blueshirts. It’s glorious to watch to be honest.

The opposite. No such thing as a blueshirt being gracious in defeat. We've been dealing with spiteful little nasty digs. I say we, meaning everyone bar FG voters it seems although I do hold out that there are genuine sorts in the FG camp.
FG getting a drubbing has been akin to the Emperor's new clothes, had he never realised he wasn't wearing any.
It's everything and everyone's fault except FG and their ruinous two tier policies.

Ush1

jimgoose wrote: »

Because there's only one group SF hates more than FG, and that's... :pac:

Sinn Fein by name, Sinn Fein by nature...

jimgoose

Yurt! wrote: »

...the heat of the media and the public will shift back to FG.

So what you're saying is, when all the faffing about and tantrums are over, everyone could well turn back to FG saying something like "Daaaad!!! Come back, the electricity is cut off and the mortgage needs paying!!" :pac:

is_that_so

jimgoose wrote: »

The pot of shit is further agitated just now, it seems Brendan Howlin has stepped down.

They were out on all counts anyway, but he did talk up making arrangements with like-minded parties. Even so they need to figure out what it all means now for Labour.

Keyzer

wench wrote: »

Keyzer wrote: »

Idbatterim wrote: »

Now run the numbers for 101,000 , how much of the extra 1000 is deducted for tax, usc, prsi?

I make it 520.

So the marginal rate is over 50%

There are two tax rates in this country - 20% and 40%.

Then there is PRSI and USC.

A salary of €120K has total deductions of €48,911 - so total deductions as a percentage of salary (including USC and PRSI) is....

40.76%

Let me explain how I got that number (which is the right number) - (48911/120000) X 100

Reason I'm continually going on about this is you, along with the other poster on this topic, are wrong but you continue to spread misinformation and nonsense when you clearly don't have a clue how to perform basic calculations.

Which, in itself is bad enough, but other people believe this crap...

Mind boggling...

Yurt2

jimgoose wrote: »

So what you're saying is, when all the faffing about and tantrums are over, everyone could well turn back to FG saying something like "Daaaad!!! Come back, the electricity is cut off and the mortgage needs paying!!" :pac:

Not really

jimgoose

Yurt! wrote: »

Not really

But a bit like, right?

Yurt2

jimgoose wrote: »

But a bit like, right?

Jim, stay on topic if you can. I know it's been a difficult week for you and you have a lot of difficult emotions you're dealing with.

jimgoose

Yurt! wrote: »

Jim, stay on topic if you can. I know it's been a difficult week for you and you have a lot of difficult emotions you're dealing with

The only one dealing with "difficult emotions" is you, dear fellow, over your beloved Revolutionaries apparently suddenly shitting their collective britches!

solidasarock

Even if the election went to plan. I think a lot of people still expected a bumpy road ahead due to a combo of international and domestic factors.

FG doing everything it can to stay out of the next GOV seems like a driver jumping out of a car moments before it drives off a cliff, and then blaming the person left in the car for not turning the wheel quick enough.

Necro

Matt Barrett wrote:

The opposite. No such thing as a blueshirt being gracious in defeat. We've been dealing with spiteful little nasty digs. I say we, meaning everyone bar FG voters it seems although I do hold out that there are genuine sorts in the FG camp. FG getting a drubbing has been akin to the Emperor's new clothes, had he never realised he wasn't wearing any. It's everything and everyone's fault except FG and their ruinous two tier policies.

Ah lighten up Matt, ye will be scurrying back to the opposition benches in a few years at the most, enjoy your popularity while it lasts

With great power comes great responsibility

Heavy hangs the crown

blanch152

Yurt! wrote: »

Jim, stay on topic if you can. I know it's been a difficult week for you and you have a lot of trauma you're dealing with

Yurt! wrote: »

Jim, stay on topic if you can. I know it's been a difficult week for you and you have a lot of difficult emotions you're dealing with.

Trauma or difficult emotions?

It seems to me that you are becoming a little incoherent at the thought of Fine Gael going into opposition. Getting a little cold and lonely up there on the big boys seat where the decisions have to be made? That is certainly the sense I get around here.

blanch152

solidasarock wrote: »

Even if the election went to plan. I think a lot of people still expected a bumpy road ahead due to a combo of international and domestic factors.

FG doing everything it can to stay out of the next GOV seems like a driver jumping out of a car moments before it drives off a cliff, and then blaming the person left in the car for not turning the wheel quick enough.

If the cliff is far enough away, and the person left in the car doesn't have a clue about driving, then they will probably escape the blame.

storker

Necro wrote: »

Ah yeah, pure chancers the whole lot of em.

Just sat in the Dail and played checkers and the economy put itself back together without their help.

Seriously though....

How about relatively decent financial governance (bar the odd major mishap like NCH)

Such as...?

bunderoon

blanch152 wrote: »

If the cliff is far enough away, and the person left in the car doesn't have a clue about driving, then they will probably escape the blame.

SF dont have much of a chance in this anyway. FG, FF and the RTE will do everything possible to get in their way. The only ones that suffer is 'we the people'.

Necro

storker wrote:

Such as...?

A surplus in the budget for the first time in over a decade maybe?

I dunno, seems pretty fine to me.

blanch152

bunderoon wrote: »

SF dont have much of a chance in this anyway. FG, FF and the RTE will do everything possible to get in their way. The only ones that suffer is 'we the people'.

The biggest issue is that they never expected it and they are under-prepared and over-promised in an election they didn't expect to win.

storker

Mortelaro wrote: »

Wrong Question
You need to ask what they didn't do to ruin it and that would be try spend what we don't have

So it was the sitting oin the hands wot did it? I suppose it makes a change from complaining that FF weren't spending fast enough...

storker

Necro wrote: »

A surplus in the budget for the first time in over a decade maybe?

I dunno, seems pretty fine to me.

That's just a question of spending cuts. Where did the extra economic activity come from? The reduction in unemployment?

seamus

solidasarock wrote: »

Even if the election went to plan. I think a lot of people still expected a bumpy road ahead due to a combo of international and domestic factors.

FG doing everything it can to stay out of the next GOV seems like a driver jumping out of a car moments before it drives off a cliff, and then blaming the person left in the car for not turning the wheel quick enough.

You guys are great.

"If FF and SF make a balls of the country, that's definitely FG's fault".

Falling over yourselves to find a way to blame everything on FG and criticise them for leaving government when you've just overwhelmingly voted to get rid of them.

The numbers are there for the two largest parties to form a government. They should probably give that a go first.

When that fails, I'm sure FG will be opening to listening to any proposals.

wench

Keyzer wrote: »

There are two tax rates in this country - 20% and 40%.

Then there is PRSI and USC.

A salary of €120K has total deductions of €48,911 - so total deductions as a percentage of salary (including USC and PRSI) is....

40.76%

Let me explain how I got that number (which is the right number) - (48911/120000) X 100

Reason I'm continually going on about this is you, along with the other poster on this topic, are wrong but you continue to spread misinformation and nonsense when you clearly don't have a clue how to perform basic calculations.

Which, in itself is bad enough, but other people believe this crap...

Mind boggling...

And you keep missing the point that it is the marginal rate, ie, the rate you pay on the next euro of income.

Once you pass on to the higher rate, half of everything else you earn goes in deductions.

The table on page one here illustrates it nicely.
https://www.tasc.ie/assets/files/pdf/tasc_preserving_the_41_per_cent_tax_rate.pdf

Necro

storker wrote:

That's just a question of spending cuts. Where did the extra economic activity come from? The reduction in unemployment?

You seem to be describing good governance there to me

:pac:

Mortelaro

Yurt! wrote: »

As I suspected, it's all about party tactics and jockeying.

The maths are there for a government. It's not a government I'd like, but it's there for them.

FG wasted no time during the campaign telling us who they won't go to the dance with in the national interest, it will soon come time to tell us who they would be willing to go with if FF keep steady on their no SF stance.
.

During the debates Leo said he'd go in with FF as a very last resort
I doubt that very last resort will happen
A deal will be cut between FF SF and the Greens

The only issue I see with that is the Irish government's honest broker role in the Good Friday agreement
You couldn't have Mary Lou negotiating with herself
Something will need to be found around that

Fanny Wank

Necro wrote: »

A surplus in the budget for the first time in over a decade maybe?

I dunno, seems pretty fine to me.

The level of surplus vs the increase in tax take is pathetic (as current expenditure has simply increased to match increase in income and there's doubts over the Sustainability of some increases e.g. corporation tax)

Increasing the old age pension by 13 euro a week under FGs watch has probably added over 100bn to the state's liabilities in future years however

But like the children's hospital that's probably minor

storker

Necro wrote: »

You seem to be describing good governance there to me

:pac:

Indeed, but consisting of...? Economic activity isn't boosted by cutting spending.

If you're so sure that it was FG who caused the upswing in economic activity, you must know what were the policies and chain of cause-and-effect that led to it happening. So what were they?

blanch152

Fanny **** wrote: »

The level of surplus vs the increase in tax take is pathetic (as current expenditure has simply increased to match increase in income)

Increasing the old age pension by 13 euro a week under FGs watch has probably added over 100bn to the state's liabilities in future years however

But like the children's hospital that's probably minor

It could be worse, they could have promised to reduce the pension age........oh.....

Fanny Wank

blanch152 wrote: »

It could be worse, they could have promised to reduce the pension age........oh.....

And I'll be just as critical of any party pulling the strings if this happens. Anyhow this is a thread re FG I thought

Yeah FG did something stupid but but the other crowd. Usual nonsense

Keyzer

wench wrote: »

And you keep missing the point that it is the marginal rate, ie, the rate you pay on the next euro of income.

Once you pass on to the higher rate, half of everything else you earn goes in deductions.

The table on page one here illustrates it nicely.
https://www.tasc.ie/assets/files/pdf/tasc_preserving_the_41_per_cent_tax_rate.pdf

Did you actually read this article? Truthfully? Marginal tax rates mean nothing, it states this in the document.

Page 2:

Headline tax rates do not equal actual tax paid. Any move to raise the threshold at which the 41% income tax rate applies would lower the actual amount of tax paid even further than is already the case, which would imperil Ireland’s ability to provide public services, social transfers and public
investment.

A single person on €32,800 has a ‘marginal tax rate’ of 31% (income tax 20%, USC 7% and PRSI 4%) but pays no more than 18.9% of his or her gross income in taxes.

A single person on €33,800 has a ‘marginal tax rate’ of 52% (income tax 41%, USC 7% and PRSI 4%) but pays no more than 19.8% of his or her gross income in taxes.

In other words, what matters is the effective tax rate as a percentage of gross income, not headline or marginal rates.

Effective tax rate, which is exactly what I have been calculating. And even on 120K, its almost 12 points off 52%.

Before spreading mis-information and quoting documents you haven't read or understand, you need to educate yourself first on how tax/deductions are calculated.