FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

efanton

As I said earlier I read that article a few months ago. Simply cannot find it. Wish I had bookmarked it.
in it they broke own every cent that found its way to government. That included income tax from labour cost , capital gains tax , fees, stamp duty etc etc.
Whether money goes to central or local government really isn't an argument. It is money collected by the state.

I'm prepared to accept it might not be the 40%, even though that what I read but I guess without the link I will have to concede that. but its certainly far greater than 25%.

The point I made in the first post was the government could help the housing crisis by reducing the taxes and fees collected by the state making new property cheaper rather than build thousands of social houses.

Would you not agree that reducing taxes and fees on new homes , or removing stamp duty for first time buyers might be part of the solution to the housing crisis. If new homes are cheaper more can afford to buy them or qualify for a mortgage.

Would you prefer the government to be building affordable homes instead?

markodaly

efanton wrote: »

As I said earlier I read that article a few months ago. Simply cannot find it. Wish I had bookmarked it.
in it they broke own every cent that found its way to government. That included income tax from labour cost , capital gains tax , fees, stamp duty etc etc.

If that is the case, why should we not exclude all essential workers from paying all and any kind of tax!?
It's a stupid argument, if an article made that point.

Whether money goes to central or local government really isn't an argument. It is money collected by the state.

In the context of this argument, when we are talking about the Dail and FG it does matter. People often conflate the two levels of government, as if there are no LA's out there collecting money from people.

I'm prepared to accept it might not be the 40%, even though that what I read but I guess without the link I will have to concede that. but its certainly far greater than 25%.

You have no idea what the real figure is because you cannot substantiate it nor find any reference to it.

The point I made in the first post was the government could help the housing crisis by reducing the taxes and fees collected by the state making new property cheaper rather than build thousands of social houses.

Perhaps it could. I would not care too much if the government gave developers a VAT holiday or something like that, but do you who would be giving out abaout it the most?
The very same people in this thread giving out about FG!
That is the sad truth of the matter.
Can you imagine the press if FG gave their perceived 'rich' buddies a handout? Christ, the likes of RBB and Paul Murphy would cream themselves.

Would you not agree that reducing taxes and fees on new homes , or removing stamp duty for first time buyers might be part of the solution to the housing crisis. If new homes are cheaper more can afford to buy them or qualify for a mortgage.

Part of the solution perhaps, but the savings would be nowhere near as much as you think, and there is zero guarantees that the savings would be passed onto buyers.

Would you prefer the government to be building affordable homes instead?

With what money.

See this is the nubb of your argument.
"Make housing cheaper by making it all tax free"
Then
"Get the government to build more houses"

You do realise that the less money the government has, the fewer houses it can afford to build? You do get that principle, right?

The biggest cost of housing is land prices. I would suggest we look at that, before going down your road.

efanton

markodaly wrote: »

Part of the solution perhaps, but the savings would be nowhere near as much as you think, and there is zero guarantees that the savings would be passed onto buyers.



With what money.

See this is the nubb of your argument.
"Make housing cheaper by making it all tax free"
Then
"Get the government to build more houses"

You do realise that the less money the government has, the fewer houses it can afford to build? You do get that principle, right?

The biggest cost of housing is land prices. I would suggest we look at that, before going down your road.

I agree, there will not be as much money to invest in capital expenditure as there might have been without the virus epidemic.

The issue is though, that thankfully there has not been a mass die off. The problems that were there before the virus will still be there once we return to normality they simply will not disappear with the virus.

We will still have a housing crisis and it will still have to be dealt with in some way. Personally I am open to anything thing that will deal with that, I'm not stuck on a 'the only solution is to build 100,000 houses' solution.
I do believe we are going to have to find a way to build significant numbers of homes, but personally I would sooner see that as some will be social housing and some will be affordable homes sold at near cost so that those working but unable to qualify for a mortgage currently have a chance at home ownership.

This virus crisis has not finished yet, and we will not see the true effect on the private rental market until this epidemic is behind us. I think we will see a lot of landlords simply pulling out of the market because they cannot carry the losses that many landlords will have to endure during this crisis.

There has to be other ways to reduce the need for a massive social housing building programme and that was why I suggested that the government could look at reducing taxation on both new homes and rental properties. That in itself will not solve he problem but it might reduce the number of homes that might need to be built.

THe AIB produced a pretty good report back in January regarding the housing market but it appear to have fallen on deaf ears.
https://aib.ie/content/dam/aib/corporate/docs/real-estate-finance/aib-housing-market-report-jan-2019.pdf

McMurphy

Ballso wrote: »

I think in the midst of all this we can all agree that tan commemoration ****e they tried to pull was ****ing moronic. Absolute tone deaf morons.

The press are still taking the piss on this one actually, this headline caught my eye getting my coffee fix this morning.





No doubt taking another swype at charlie and Leo's brain fart.

markodaly

McMurphy wrote: »

No doubt taking another swype at charlie and Leo's brain fart.

Or maybe its a tabloid pun.

Not everyone is obsessed about FG as the few in here, McMurphy.

markodaly

efanton wrote: »

I agree, there will not be as much money to invest in capital expenditure as there might have been without the virus epidemic.

The issue is though, that thankfully there has not been a mass die off. The problems that were there before the virus will still be there once we return to normality they simply will not disappear with the virus.

We will still have a housing crisis and it will still have to be dealt with in some way. Personally I am open to anything thing that will deal with that, I'm not stuck on a 'the only solution is to build 100,000 houses' solution.
I do believe we are going to have to find a way to build significant numbers of homes, but personally I would sooner see that as some will be social housing and some will be affordable homes sold at near cost so that those working but unable to qualify for a mortgage currently have a chance at home ownership.

This virus crisis has not finished yet, and we will not see the true effect on the private rental market until this epidemic is behind us. I think we will see a lot of landlords simply pulling out of the market because they cannot carry the losses that many landlords will have to endure during this crisis.

There has to be other ways to reduce the need for a massive social housing building programme and that was why I suggested that the government could look at reducing taxation on both new homes and rental properties. That in itself will not solve he problem but it might reduce the number of homes that might need to be built.

THe AIB produced a pretty good report back in January regarding the housing market but it appear to have fallen on deaf ears.
https://aib.ie/content/dam/aib/corporate/docs/real-estate-finance/aib-housing-market-report-jan-2019.pdf

In summary, the AIB report is decent enough but remember they are a bank and have a certain vested interest in some of their recommendations being carried out.

Not everyone either should be a property owner. Its good that most people can be and are I suppose but there will always be a 20-30% of people who for various reasons will not or ever be home owners.

The two biggest issues to my mind are land costs and density. Put simply we build too many of the wrong homes in the wrong places.
Tax breaks could work, for example for FTB who work. But they have to be nuanced and help those who actually can afford a home and need a home.

Jinglejangle69

For some people who hate FG and Leo they really dedicate most of their day in here talking about them!!

Its weird it really is.

Why let something you hate so much consume so much of your time?

Like do yous act do anything else all day long except argue about FG and Leo!?

I dunno, we are living in a crazy world at the moment so.....

Yurt2

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

For some people who hate FG and Leo they really dedicate most of their day in here talking about them!!

Its weird it really is.

Why let something you hate so much consume so much of your time?

Like do yous act do anything else all day long except argue about FG and Leo!?

I dunno, we are living in a crazy world at the moment so.....

Because your posting history doesn't suggest you do precisely that with SF.


Right Ted.

McMurphy

Yurt! wrote: »

Because your posting history doesn't suggest you do precisely that with SF.


Right Ted.

Not just Sinn Fein, 1000s of posts berating people on welfare, social housing tenants, lately been displaying a bit of a stiffy for people formerly on trolleys who have been sent the fcuk home - theyre now being described as wasters who never should have been in a hospital to begin with.

Some posters on this site might very well post stuff about Leo or FG, pointing out their inaction and failures, even if it is half hearted taking the piss.

Other posters on this site post nothing but hate and bile towards their fellow citizens.

I'm happy with my own posting history on this site, my conscience is clear, I'd have no problem slagging leo to his face on some of his failure's and lack of actions.

I'm not so sure others would be as comfortable calling someone whose had to fall back on social welfare or be languishing on a trolley a waster, a scrounger, or not having any self responsibility.

I'll take my position of poking fun at those who govern over the latter - all day everyday tbh.

efanton

markodaly wrote: »

In summary, the AIB report is decent enough but remember they are a bank and have a certain vested interest in some of their recommendations being carried out.

Not everyone either should be a property owner. Its good that most people can be and are I suppose but there will always be a 20-30% of people who for various reasons will not or ever be home owners.

The two biggest issues to my mind are land costs and density. Put simply we build too many of the wrong homes in the wrong places.
Tax breaks could work, for example for FTB who work. But they have to be nuanced and help those who actually can afford a home and need a home.

I totally agree with you there.

Young couples and singles do not need 3 bed semi detached's with wacking great gardens. Nor do young singles fortunate enough to be able to stretch to a mortgage. I'm all for building more apartment style housing as long as they do not have walls of paper and not these 'open plan' efforts where a developer gets lazy and the only walls in the apartment are the ones around the bathroom. They would be cheaper than the traditional house and that would make the difference for many allowing they to buy a home that they otherwise could not afford. In the UK and Europe these were sold as starter homes allowing people to get their foot on the property ladder.
With an incentive such as no stamp duty for FTB, or tax breaks for developers who built such communities of a sufficient standard what's not to like about them as long as they ensured sufficient parking.

Also something that hasn't taken off here in Ireland would be smaller units built as small communities for the elderly. These made a lot of sense, many had a full-time warden to keep the place tidy and make sure the needs of the elderly were being attended to, they would have community nurses visit on certain days which made health care easier and cheaper to deliver for state, and released bigger homes to the market for those with families.

Lived in Europe for a good few years and lived in 3 fantastic apartments. Solid walls so you could hardly hear the neighbours, reasonably big so you didn't feel like you were living in a rabbit hutch, and no garden a bonus for me as I hate the idea of gardening, but there was a fully equipped and fenced in play area for the kids with seating and tables and permanent BBQ's so families could sit outside and eat their lunch or spend an afternoon in the sun or a warm evenings together. These types of homes would make a lot of sense here in Ireland, we'd just need to import the weather :P

The problem we have in Ireland is as you have said land is so expensive. Developers will build 3 bed detached or semi detached with gardens and drive because its these that allow for the greatest profit margin. The government really need to give developers some way of building smaller or more compact homes and still make a similar or better profit margin for a similar plot of land.

With regards social housing, these too need to be built smaller. There is no need for social housing to be 1200 sq ft or have wacking great gardens.
building smaller and cheaper is the way to go with regards to social housing in my opinion. They also need to built more 1 and 2 bed accommodations, not everyone on social welfare has kids so why give 2 and 3 bed homes to single individuals on social welfare. They have to at the moment because there is no alternative, but it is a complete waste of precious resources.

smurgen

Love the way FG and their journalists/ spin units are now shaming people regarding staying inside for the weekend making a big noise about holiday homes and having Garda issue fines etc while flights and Ferry's still arrive from the U.K,one of Europe's hotspots for Covid.

mattser

smurgen wrote: »

Love the way FG and their journalists/ spin units are now shaming people regarding staying inside for the weekend making a big noise about holiday homes and having Garda issue fines etc while flights and Ferry's still arrive from the U.K,one of Europe's hotspots for Covid.

Where are people being shamed to stay inside ? I agree about the UK scenario.

smurgen

mattser wrote: »

Where are people being shamed to stay inside ? I agree about the UK scenario.

Seeing ALOT of pontificating from the establishment mouthpieces e.g Ciara Kelly about it but they're deathly silent on flights etc coming from hotspots and PPE shortcomings mind. Low hanging fruit again I suppose. I agree with the 2km rule and agree with the fines but I find the selective outrage interesting.

Ballso

smurgen wrote: »

Love the way FG and their journalists/ spin units are now shaming people regarding staying inside for the weekend making a big noise about holiday homes and having Garda issue fines etc while flights and Ferry's still arrive from the U.K,one of Europe's hotspots for Covid.

SF lads edging closer to Gemma O'Doherty style conspiracy theories every day it would seem. Desperate to stay relevant.

smurgen

Ballso wrote: »

SF lads edging closer to Gemma O'Doherty style conspiracy theories every day it would seem. Desperate to stay relevant.

What part is untrue?

Mortelaro

smurgen wrote: »

What part is untrue?

Maybe the implication that people entering the country don't self isolate ?

smurgen

Mortelaro wrote: »

Maybe the implication that people entering the country don't self isolate ?

More so than people in the country?there's logic

Mortelaro

smurgen wrote: »

More so than people in the country?there's logic

Well the NPHET advice is for self isolation now if you are on one of the few flights or boats entering
They're also advising not to go to holiday homes
Both are also on that advice the governments instructions
Gardai have the power to detain
So please do inform if you think a public health guideline is being breached which today again was the Garda commissioners advice

blanch152

Ballso wrote: »

SF lads edging closer to Gemma O'Doherty style conspiracy theories every day it would seem. Desperate to stay relevant.

Default reflex always comes out in a time of crisis.

So much for their concern for the Irish trying to get back home.

smurgen

blanch152 wrote: »

Default reflex always comes out in a time of crisis.

So much for their concern for the Irish trying to get back home.

Weeks into lock down?

James Brown

If FG are involved in the next government after the crisis begins to subside, how will they be able to bring hospital staff, amenities and funding back to the crisis level it was before the Covid19 crisis?
As with housing, it seems their answer is to give use of private clinics and hospitals to the public to make up any shortfalls, all funded through the tax payer. This will speed up the inevitable collapse of the country. I guess the strategy will be bleed as much public money out for private friends as possible and when the arse falls out state it was Lehmans Covid19 what did it. I can't see joe public buying it considering the players.
Fiscally conservative how are you...

I agree with the current moves to keep people from travelling unless needed, thankfully FG no longer have their Tans policing the countryside but at least they got in one of their own to head the police force.

Edgware

Hopefully Gerry Adams wont be stopped on his way to his holiday home in Donegal and/or Louth. It might damage the Peace Process

FrancieBrady

Edgware wrote: »

Hopefully Gerry Adams wont be stopped on his way to his holiday home in Donegal and/or Louth. It might damage the Peace Process

I'd say Gerry is in his holiday home already laughing at how his party is occupying space in FG and FF heads. :D

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

Weeks into lock down?

Eh, yes. Have a relation who was furloughed in the UK only yesterday, and family are trying to get her home now.

Shows how much you know.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'd say Gerry is in his holiday home already laughing at how his party is occupying space in FG and FF heads. :D

Wouldn’t be surprised, he has always had a disregard for the well-being and safety of ordinary people. Like Mary-Lou, he is undoubtedly looking after number one rather than thinking of the rest of the country.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

If FG are involved in the next government after the crisis begins to subside, how will they be able to bring hospital staff, amenities and funding back to the crisis level it was before the Covid19 crisis?
As with housing, it seems their answer is to give use of private clinics and hospitals to the public to make up any shortfalls, all funded through the tax payer. This will speed up the inevitable collapse of the country. I guess the strategy will be bleed as much public money out for private friends as possible and when the arse falls out state it was Lehmans Covid19 what did it. I can't see joe public buying it considering the players.
Fiscally conservative how are you...

I agree with the current moves to keep people from travelling unless needed, thankfully FG no longer have their Tans policing the countryside but at least they got in one of their own to head the police force.

I can see you and a few others becoming voices in the wilderness on this as you repeat your discredited ideas.

We have learned the hard way that three months of Sinn Fein policies on free healthcare, freezing rents and big increases in social welfare punch a huge hole in the States finances that is not sustainable - could be as much as 40bn for the year.

efanton

blanch152 wrote: »

I can see you and a few others becoming voices in the wilderness on this as you repeat your discredited ideas.

We have learned the hard way that three months of Sinn Fein policies on free healthcare, freezing rents and big increases in social welfare punch a huge hole in the States finances that is not sustainable - could be as much as 40bn for the year.

What is wrong with freezing rents?
You do realise that is not the same as not paying rent.

jimmycrackcorm

Idbatterim wrote: »

its very interesting, because there is allegedly no money for anything really, up to a few weeks ago and now they can pull twenty two billion euro plus out of their ass? quite interesting...

It's a simplistic train of thought.

Say my car is a few years old but fill paid for and I need it for work. Suddenly it breaks down but the repairs cost means I need to take out a loan and buy a new car.

According to your train of thought, I should just go out and buy a new car regardless of how my existing car is, because I can somehow pull the money out of my ass.

Therefore, everyone should just go out and buy brand new cars.

efanton

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's a simplistic train of thought.

Say my car is a few years old but fill paid for and I need it for work. Suddenly it breaks down but the repairs cost means I need to take out a loan and buy a new car.

According to your train of thought, I should just go out and buy a new car regardless of how my existing car is, because I can somehow pull the money out of my ass.

Therefore, everyone should just go out and buy brand new cars.

But it is not necessarily a case of pulling money out of thin air is it?
This country spend a whopping 80 billion a year.

I am absolutely certain in there is money that could easily and reasonably re-allocated. We give 15 million to greyhounds each year, and I daresay there are hundreds of other unnecessary spending that the country makes that could be reduced or removed and reallocated.

Surely it all about priorities. I think everyone agrees that money will always be found to cover the priorities.

What is in question is what is a priority? What are we prepared to sacrifice, if anything, in order for the priorities to get precedence?
There different people will agree or disagree. Its not really a question of can we afford it, its a question of what is a priority and should we afford it at the expense of something else?

piplip87

McMurphy wrote: »

Not just Sinn Fein, 1000s of posts berating people on welfare, social housing tenants, lately been displaying a bit of a stiffy for people formerly on trolleys who have been sent the fcuk home - theyre now being described as wasters who never should have been in a hospital to begin with.

Some posters on this site might very well post stuff about Leo or FG, pointing out their inaction and failures, even if it is half hearted taking the piss.

Other posters on this site post nothing but hate and bile towards their fellow citizens.

I'm happy with my own posting history on this site, my conscience is clear, I'd have no problem slagging leo to his face on some of his failure's and lack of actions.

I'm not so sure others would be as comfortable calling someone whose had to fall back on social welfare or be languishing on a trolley a waster, a scrounger, or not having any self responsibility.

I'll take my position of poking fun at those who govern over the latter - all day everyday tbh.

No it's actually bang on to call out those wasters who have been on Jobseekers for 5, 10 even 15 years. It's absolutely bang in to call these people on their utter disregard for the working person in this country. These lads live him social housing while those who contribute and pay tax are shafted left, right and centre just so these lads can keep living it up...... Speaking about getting shafted left, right and centre there's also you g ones who get fixed at 17 and get all handed out to them and a forever home ... Again paid for by those struggling to pay their own bills.

There's also plenty of people who do go to A&E with absolutely no need to see a GP never mind a trip to the hospital. People are presenting to A&E with fecking headcolds and tummy bugs. It's fairly obvious it's the same people who are clogging up testing for COVID 19.

It all boils down to a sense of entitlement certain sections of society have. They want all the rights of living here but none of the responsibility. Yet all they do is give out and moan about the Gubberment, even thought the Gubberment is providing them with housing, (more than likely in arrears), Dole, Household benefits packages, back to school, free health care and in some cases plenty of free legal aid.

Do you think it's fair that somebody who left school at 16, Hit by a Mickey at 17 and again at 19,21,25 and 27 is deserving of TaxPayers money to bring up her childer while the rest of us hard working tax payers dread the next round of bills ?