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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

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    #9812
    Carfacemandog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    EltonJohn69 wrote: »
    Well Trump/fox news are going to go all in soon on hunter Biden..... whether it sticks or not.... Biden is going to have a rough time

    That one already washed off months ago though, if anything the optics of Trump getting impeached due tgo breaking the law over it has hurt him more I would say. And voting to acquit him despite admitting he was guilty has done significant damage to some senators in more moderate states who are up for election in November, where they have gone from being presumed to keeping their majority to the underdogs both in the polls and at the bookies.

    There's still quite a whole to go, but this is part of why Trumps campaign must be eager for a VP nominee to be named. Whomever it is, I can go do as guarantee they will be the main source of attack ads etc rather than Biden as they've just not been able to get anything to stick.


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    #9813
    Carfacemandog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    sid waddell wrote: »
    Trump has known about this since at least March.

    This month, June 2020, Trump implored for Russia to be readmitted to the G7.

    Well I mean of course. Trump is on record saying he trusts Russia over his own intelligence agencies, so its hardly surprising that he appears to be - yet again - siding with Russia over his own intelligence agencies.


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    #9814
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    Again you seem to think that all political and military moves are public knowledge.

    That's obviously not the case
    So your default response and defence is to assume, based on nothing, that Trump has done something behind the scenes to punish Russia?

    Why on earth would you assume that, given that there has been petty much zero pushback on Russian aggression of any sort by Trump over the entire course of his presidency, only what could be - at best - called appeasement?

    Trump is publicly calling for Russia to be readmitted to the G7.

    How does that square with any sort of "punishment" or any sort of push back?


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    #9815
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    sid waddell wrote: »
    So your default response and defence is to assume, based on nothing, that Trump has done something behind the scenes to punish Russia?

    Why on earth would you assume that, given that there has been petty much zero pushback on Russian aggression of any sort by Trump over the entire course of his presidency, only what could be - at best - called appeasement?

    Trump is publicly calling for Russia to be readmitted to the G7.

    How does that square with any sort of "punishment" or any sort of push back?

    You are assuming the government hasn't. You are assuming that all political and military moves are reported by the media.


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    #9816
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,569 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Trump's mishandling of this whole Coronavirus epidemic has been bad even for him. Trump had a platform that the economy was strong under him, and that was his ace in the hole. But while the coronavirus rages on, the economy is going to be on the ropes and constantly in this process of shutting down and restarting.

    So there's that - but we know that wearing masks helps stop the spread. It makes absolutely no sense that Trump would announce any skepticism about this. You could see a glimmer of logic in trying to get the economy to reopen early even if it's a vain hope that it won't be disastrous. There's no logic in being against the masks. None. Nada.

    Maybe he's just done with being president at this stage and wants to help sink his electoral chances, but still wants to look like he's fighting, so that the launch of the Trump News Network in 2021 will be a great success. Otherwise, his advisors are really failing him, or he really has gone off the deep end, mentally.

    If he wants to get his biggest, excuse the pun, trump card back, then it makes all the sense in the world to crush the curve as much as possible. He's actively killing his voters if this rips through conservative communities in Florida with large amounts of older people, for example. I say it again - his stance on masks is a kamikaze move of the highest order. Maybe someone here could educate me on the logic they think Trump might have with it, because I can see none from where I stand.


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    #9817
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    Carfacemandog wrote: »
    That one already washed off months ago though, if anything the optics of Trump getting impeached due tgo breaking the law over it has hurt him more I would say. And voting to acquit him despite admitting he was guilty has done significant damage to some senators in more moderate states who are up for election in November, where they have gone from being presumed to keeping their majority to the underdogs both in the polls and at the bookies.

    There's still quite a whole to go, but this is part of why Trumps campaign must be eager for a VP nominee to be named. Whomever it is, I can go do as guarantee they will be the main source of attack ads etc rather than Biden as they've just not been able to get anything to stick.
    Maybe they'll go with the calling a black woman a "whore" angle, as suggested by a poster here earlier.

    That should work.


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    #9818
    amandstu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭amandstu


    Carfacemandog wrote: »
    Well I mean of course. Trump is on record saying he trusts Russia over his own intelligence agencies, so its hardly surprising that he appears to be - yet again - siding with Russia over his own intelligence agencies.

    Should be very worrying to the USA that all any foreign country seems to have to do to counter any inconvenient American intelligence is to stroke Trump's ego and suggest that his own intelligence services are out to get him


    Well that is the suspicion.(unless Trump is just a victim of a specific form of TDS where beliefs have to fit in with expediency,)


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    #9819
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    You are assuming the government hasn't. You are assuming that all political and military moves are reported by the media.
    You're now suggesting that "government" is punishing Russia in secret without Trump's knowledge?

    That's quite the assumption indeed.

    Surely you'd categorise calling for Russia to be readmitted to the G7 as reward, not punishment?

    What has Russia done to justify such reward?


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    #9820
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,297 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    briany wrote: »
    Trump's mishandling of this whole Coronavirus epidemic has been bad even for him. Trump had a platform that the economy was strong under him, and that was his ace in the hole. But while the coronavirus rages on, the economy is going to be on the ropes and constantly in this process of shutting down and restarting.

    So there's that - but we know that wearing masks helps stop the spread. It makes absolutely no sense that Trump would announce any skepticism about this. You could see a glimmer of logic in trying to get the economy to reopen early even if it's a vain hope that it won't be disastrous. There's no logic in being against the masks. None. Nada.

    Maybe he's just done with being president at this stage and wants to help sink his electoral chances, but still wants to look like he's fighting, so that the launch of the Trump News Network in 2021 will be a great success. Otherwise, his advisors are really failing him, or he really has gone off the deep end, mentally.

    If he wants to get his biggest, excuse the pun, trump card back, then it makes all the sense in the world to crush the curve as much as possible. He's actively killing his voters if this rips through conservative communities in Florida with large amounts of older people, for example. I say it again - his stance on masks is a kamikaze move of the highest order. Maybe someone here could educate me on the logic they think Trump might have with it, because I can see none from where I stand.

    The mask thing is no more than image, same with walking slowly down the ramp because he didn’t want the media to get the photo, not that he didn’t want to fall but because he didn’t want the photo taken, same with the ridiculous medical reports. He only cares about putting out an image and it’s beyond anything rational. He is an old man and these things aside from the mask carry on should be okay but he’s made them an issue unnecessarily.


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    #9821
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    amandstu wrote: »
    Should be very worrying to the USA that all any foreign country seems to have to do to counter any inconvenient American intelligence is to stroke Trump's ego and suggest that his own intelligence services are out to get him


    Well that is the suspicion.(unless Trump is just a victim of a specific form of TDS where beliefs have to fit in with expediency,)
    It's almost like US national security has been and continues to be completely and willingly compromised by the US president himself on behalf of other countries.


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    #9822
    Midlife
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭Midlife


    The supreme Court ACA argument is a bit nuts if you think about it.

    1: Obama got a cross party senate majority to introduce the affordable care act.

    2: Trump (having promised to repeal and replace) couldn't get the votes from his own party so it stayed in legislation.

    3: Trump has now given up on senate process, despite still having a majority) and asked supreme court to just go ahead and overturn it to be replaced with unspecified stuff.

    Who said this isn't a slide towards authoritarianism again?


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    #9823
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,150 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    EltonJohn69 wrote: »
    Well Trump/fox news are going to go all in soon on hunter Biden..... whether it sticks or not.... Biden is going to have a rough time

    Undoubtedly they are, and it does appear that Biden is going to have an uphill battle.

    We are accustomed here to the general principle that whatever your politics and however you talk about your opponents, the bottom line is that it is pretty much true and provable what you say, and everyone is absolutely entitled to their vote. If anyone steps outside those parameters then the voting public will take it on board and show displeasure, generally regardless of party politics.

    When you are in a situation that one party maintains integrity - no matter how vicious the attack it is a basically fact based attack, and the other party is willing to use every dirty trick, blatant lie and childish abuse they feel like spreading then one of those two is apparently at a disadvantage.

    However the dirty tricks approach will eventually backfire, the silly nicknames will pall with all but the smallest, stupidest and most ill-educated core of the population and the vast bulk of people will realise that if they don't want to live in a banana republic then they mustn't vote in a chimpanzee.


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    #9824
    Carfacemandog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    sid waddell wrote: »
    Maybe they'll go with the calling a black woman a "whore" angle, as suggested by a poster here earlier.

    That should work.

    The same poster who was also asking what is so bad about Trumps use of 'kung flu' while decrying politicians from the other partt not acting in a manner and decorum becoming of their office?


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    #9825
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,118 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Drumpf as far out as 13/8 with the bookies now.

    All those donfans out there who are convinced he's going to be re-elected.... It's free money for ya


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    #9826
    amandstu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭amandstu


    sid waddell wrote: »
    It's almost like US national security has been and continues to be completely and willingly compromised by the US president himself on behalf of himself and other countries.
    FTFY:)


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    #9827
    amandstu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭amandstu


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Drumpf as far out as 13/8 with the bookies now.

    All those donfans out there who are convinced he's going to be re-elected.... It's free money for ya
    Would be interesting to get an analysis of the demographics where his support has weakened


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    #9828
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,051 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    How do you know nothing was done? Did Russia announce to the media that they were offering rewards to kill coalition troops? No
    Why would deity the UK or US announce to the media anything of the kind?

    Do you think everything that happens in politics or military moves are announced to the public? Especially something so sensitive

    Real life


    Something was done, Trump announced he was moving troops out of Germany, unilaterally handing Russia a strategic victory against NATO and he also lobbied again for Russia to be allowed back into the G7.

    He such a coward it's almost funny, well at least it's funny from this side of the world. Imagine being a family member of one of the service men and women killed in Afghanistan and now knowing that not only was your commander in chief told in march that Russia were paying cash money for dead Americans, that he was given a menu of options to choose from ranging from military to economic sanctions and he choose none, other than of course to suck up to Putin some more.

    What a leader.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #9829
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    StringerBell wrote: »
    Something was done, Trump announced he was moving troops out of Germany, unilaterally handing Russia a strategic victory against NATO and he also lobbied again for Russia to be allowed back into the G7.

    He such a coward it's almost funny, well at least it's funny from this side of the world. Imagine being a family member of one of the service men and women killed in Afghanistan and now knowing that not only was your commander in chief told in march that Russia were paying cash money for dead Americans, that he was given a menu of options to choose from ranging from military to economic sanctions and he choose none, other than of course to suck up to Putin some more.

    What a leader.

    Political move removing troops from Germany.
    Trump also recently announced he is sending more troops to Poland.
    You must have missed that one


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    #9830
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,051 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    Political move removing troops from Germany.
    Trump also recently announced he is sending more troops to Poland.
    You must have missed that one

    No I caught that announcement funnily.

    No relevance of course to the post you responded to, but then I didn't expect you to be able to defend the indefensible. I never do expect it of the Trump support.

    Just deflection, whataboutery and gymnastics.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #9831
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,051 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Drumpf as far out as 13/8 with the bookies now.

    All those donfans out there who are convinced he's going to be re-elected.... It's free money for ya

    I'm gonna back him myself at those odds in a two horse race considering the shenanigans you'd expect to be pulled! Might soften the blow somewhat if the worst comes to worst.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #9832
    amandstu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭amandstu


    StringerBell wrote: »
    I'm gonna back him myself at those odds in a two horse race considering the shenanigans you'd expect to be pulled! Might soften the blow somewhat if the worst comes to worst.

    Sadly that would not soften the blow.


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    #9833
    FVP3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭FVP3


    sid waddell wrote: »
    I would have thought that it would be highly noteworthy that Trump has seen fit to do nothing except continue to support the Russian regime despite that same regime offering and indeed paying bounty money to Taliban and others who kill US soldiers. It appears to be a prima facie smoking gun that the Russian regime holds severe compromising influence over Trump.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    The Russians are just reversing what the US did when Russia invaded. In fact the Americans pretty much created the islamic resistance there, they even got a movie out if it in Rambo III.


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    #9834
    Carfacemandog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    amandstu wrote: »
    Would be interesting to get an analysis of the demographics where his support has weakened

    It was a while back but the last had seen was essentially everyone bar Evangelicals, who were also his strongest base in 2016... which says a lot about evangelicals.


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    #9835
    FVP3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭FVP3


    Carfacemandog wrote: »
    It was a while back but the last had seen was essentially everyone bar Evangelicals, who were also his strongest base in 2016... which says a lot about evangelicals.

    All the swing states. He is toast, I think. Hasnt done much for his base and the economy can't save him now.


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    #9836
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,546 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    FVP3 wrote: »
    All the swing states. He is toast, I think. Hasnt done much for his base and the economy can't save him now.

    Even if the economy was stable, Trump's performance at his kitten soft town hall with Hannity should be worrying for anyone thinking of supporting him.

    When asked what his plans for a 2nd term he had nothing, no actual plan, no outline, nothing other than waffle.

    Why run for re-election if you don't have a manifesto to build for your "victory"?


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    #9837
    For Forks Sake
    Registered Users Posts: 11,494 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    amandstu wrote: »
    Would be interesting to get an analysis of the demographics where his support has weakened

    If I remember right, he's losing support amongst every demographic apart from poorly educated white males.


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    #9838
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    banie01 wrote: »
    Even if the economy was stable, Trump's performance at his kitten soft town hall with Hannity should be worrying for anyone thinking of supporting him.

    When asked what his plans for a 2nd term he had nothing, no actual plan, no outline, nothing other than waffle.

    Why run for re-election if you don't have a manifesto to build for your "victory"?

    Didn't be also say that Biden would win the election because people didnt love him (Trump) enough?

    "I don’t want to be nice or un-nice, okay? But I mean, the man can’t speak," Trump said, falling back on one of his repeated critiques of Biden. "And he's going to be your president 'cause some people don't love me, maybe, and you know, all I'm doing is doing my job."

    Not sure what being "un-nice" means... Is this a new thing? So much for Biden being a man who "can't speak" !!

    https://people.com/politics/trump-says-biden-going-to-be-your-president-because-some-people-dont-love-me/


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    #9839
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    Midlife wrote: »
    The supreme Court ACA argument is a bit nuts if you think about it.

    1: Obama got a cross party senate majority to introduce the affordable care act.

    2: Trump (having promised to repeal and replace) couldn't get the votes from his own party so it stayed in legislation.

    3: Trump has now given up on senate process, despite still having a majority) and asked supreme court to just go ahead and overturn it to be replaced with unspecified stuff.

    Who said this isn't a slide towards authoritarianism again?

    It's important to understand what the Republican party and right-wing US commentators mean when they talk about "freedom" and "liberty".

    It is not freedom and liberty as reasonable people would understand it.

    It is the "freedom" and "liberty" of corporate power to implement oligarchy without democratic check.

    It goes back to slavery times when John Calhoun propagandised in favour of such a definition of "freedom" and "liberty". His version of "freedom" and "liberty" was the freedom of the propertied, monied class to own slaves. He could not comprehend, or refused to comprehend, the concept that the slaves themselves should have freedom.

    And crucially, it meant that the propertied and the monied should never be subject to rules implemented by democracy. Calhoun and other such ideologues believed that democracy was "majoritarian tyranny".

    When the Supreme Court ruled in Brown v Board of Education in 1954 that school segregation was unlawful, the Calhoun type ideologists immediately called for schools to resist admitting black pupils, and those public schools which admitted blacks to be summarily closed down.

    Other segregationists called for public schooling to be abolished in favour of whites only segregation academies. Blacks should be left with no schooling at all. This "could not be racist" because it was a "market" solution.

    "Freedom" and "liberty" did not apply to the poor and the marginalised, who should be kept down by any means necessary.

    What "freedom" and "liberty" means in Republican parlance (and when I say Republican parlance I mean the parlance of the vast network of Koch and other oligarchy-funded libertarian think tanks and "foundations" and "institutes" with their Calhoun and Ayn Rand ideologies, because no other ideology is tolerated in the Republican party now), is freedom from the idea that the propertied and the monied should have any responsibility to society whatsoever.

    The words "freedom" and "liberty" as used in Republican parlance are authoritarian.

    This is what the demonisation of Medicare For All is about, and it's what the attempt to crush the ACA is about (ironically the ACA was originally brought in by a Republican, Mitt Romney, in Massachusetts, the same Romney now considered a heretic in the Republican party).


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    #9840
    extra gravy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,585 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    Midlife wrote: »
    Can you perhaps why the opiod crisis is a national one that needed a national response and you're claiming hospital policy is a national win for trump above but Covid is a state problem?

    Just curious as to the rationale.

    No response to this...what a surprise.


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    #9841
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,569 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Sand wrote: »
    Who is Trumps 'base' in 2020?

    Hardcore Republicans, most bigots/racists, people living where Trump has brought some jobs in, certain people living along the southern border who want that wall (see point 2), FB amateur (sort of redundant) conspiracy theorists, 'this'll show the lib-cucks'-merchants, people who think AntiFa is some massive threat to their country. People who think the Democratic party are a massive threat to their country.

    There may be some overlap between some of the different sectors stated above. Also, it's an incomplete list. And if you are someone who voted for, or would vote for, Trump and don't feel like you fit into any of these categories, it is, as stated, an incomplete list.


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