Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

salmocab

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Trump hatred?

You or who ever are fixated on Trumps poor management at the start of the epidemic. Cases got out of control because he started slow. I get it.

Look at what washappening to cause numbers to rise
New cases were dropping for the past few weeks. States in reopening phases but nobody mixing . Then the protests started and spread to 2000 towns and cities in just over a week and lasting weeks.

Now cases rising. Not a coincidence. It's the cause

Trump hatred causes people to lose rationality.

It’s not the cause it’s a cause. They opened too early is a cause too. They didn’t wait long enough but rushed to open back up.
Trump love causes people to lose rationality.

Midlife

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

I don't think there were a million people at the rally.

Trumps rally is another spreading event. That was one event in one city for one night.

The protests were in 2000 cities and towns for weeks and still going in parts!
Come on

You are seriously using trump hatred to fool yourself into not seeing clearly. 2000 cities and towns for weeks.

Yes and the president showed as much responsility as the protestors. Would you agree? Perhaps not as he was instigating mass gatherings rather than just attending one.

I believe states like florida and texas closed down well after Ireland and went to open up well before too.

Part of it is that many of the people in the US are ungovernable when it cones to social responsibility but Trump has messed up this crisis from start to finish. It has really shown him up to be rather useless.

Carfacemandog

TomOnBoard wrote: »

For clarity, I would add Christian evangelicals and fundamentalists of all stripes..

briany wrote: »

Yes, that's a big one. I'd say there's a good overlap with them and hardcore Republicans, as well.

They also have a huge overlap with racism, after all opposition to the desegregation of schools that a
Sid waddell talked about a few posts before yours is literally what they were founded upon as a political movement. They were actually largely ok with abortion at the time of Roe v. Wade only a few years earlier, and put all their eggs in the Reagan basket despite him being quite pro choice during his time as senator, presicely because he was happy to play up to their racism and opposition to desegregation, something even the likes of Nixon wouldn't entertain.

That's not to say that every Evangelical in the US is a racist - man they backed Reagan against (Carter) is probably the most religious president in the modern history of the United States, perhaps the most decent person to be US President in living memory, and an Evangelical. But the religious right? Absolutely. It is a movement that was explicitly founded on racism and opposition to desegregation.

Worth a read - https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133

aloyisious

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

I also blamed Trumps leadership and handling at the start when it counted.

It's in the previous page or 2

One thing is obvious at the moment: Trump, as president of the U.S, is not stepping up to the plate even now to the simple extent of saying to his fellow citizens "wear masks if you wish to do so in order to protect yourselves and others from infection by Covid-19. I myself do not choose to but that is my choice for me. You must make your own choice based on the fact that Covid-19 is a killer which will take your life and the lives of people you know".

Trump has full knowledge of what Covid-19 is doing in the here and now to the people and nation he is obligated to protect and serve. Taking the action outlined above would serve to make up for his lack of leadership and act as part apology for his failure since the start of the year in respect to Covid-19 and all those who have fallen to it. His failure to do so is inexcusable.

Leroy42

I found the WH very interesting. They effectively acknowledged to core point of the story, that Russia was offering inducements to the Taliban to kill US service personel, but made the claim that Trump or Pence had not been informed.

First off, I would have expected at least some sort of comment on the Russia bit. No condemnation, no statement that Trump will discuss directly with Putin or that the Russia Ambassador is being called to the WH. No hint that they might even be slightly annoyed. The statement seemed to aimed squarely at distancing Trump and Pence from it, so in effect about self protection rather than the wider issue.

And that is if one is to believe that they were not informed. But not being informed raising very serious questions. Given that Trump has worked hard on enhancing the relationship between Russia and the US, at what point was the decision taken to not inform POTUS of this very serious situation? Surely even someone in the military could see how this would look terrible for a POTUS working on bringing Russia back into the fold when behind the scenes Putin is clearly double crossing him?

And if serious and credible threats to US personnel in war zones is not being passed on, what else is being withheld from the WH?

The statement, which is of course aimed primarily at protecting the WH itself, actually raised some fundamental and serious questions about the military, the CiC control, his CoS etc. But as usual Trump's initial response is claim no knowledge, and thus no responsibility.

If I was in the US military, particularly if I was assigned to Afghanistan, I would be openly questioning whether the POTUS had my back at all.

Leroy42

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Well it's all just opinion and speculation. It might be it might not. Right now we dont know any different and considering how fast the news moves we may never know .

Right, so you have no actual input at all to give so you just type in some nonsense babble?

OK, noted.

But on the off chance that you actually follow the news have you anything to say on the matter at all? The WH statement acknowledges that the issue is correct, they are only denying that Trump and Pence knew about it.

So that part if not speculation. And within my post I made the point that taking that line raises very serious questions in terms of the military, the CIA and the WH. That is not speculation, that is based on the WH claiming they were not informed.

I see the issue of whether Trump knew of not as a side show. Trump is made aware of lots of things and takes no action (Covid-19 being the biggest example) so even if he knew I have no confidence that he would do the right thing.

But even the statement points to the fact that he did know. If he didn't know, and was only now finding out, I would have expected a more robust statement about bringing it up directly with Putin, that no POTUS can stand by any country targeting our citizens. But it never mentions any of that, or that they are stepping up military security and discussing next steps with military leaders.

Instead the statement simply tries to distance Trump for the whole affair. He doesn't care, except that it might potentially look bad for him.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Serious posts only please. It'd be very much appreciated if people didn't dump tweets here. Thanks.

Some posts have been deleted.

hotmail.com

aloyisious wrote: »

One thing is obvious at the moment: Trump, as president of the U.S, is not stepping up to the plate even now to the simple extent of saying to his fellow citizens "wear masks if you wish to do so in order to protect yourselves and others from infection by Covid-19. I myself do not choose to but that is my choice for me. You must make your own choice based on the fact that Covid-19 is a killer which will take your life and the lives of people you know".

Trump has full knowledge of what Covid-19 is doing in the here and now to the people and nation he is obligated to protect and serve. Taking the action outlined above would serve to make up for his lack of leadership and act as part apology for his failure since the start of the year in respect to Covid-19 and all those who have fallen to it. His failure to do so is inexcusable.

Just the madness of America is that some people are wearing masks because Trump isn't.

Masks at best, reduce the spread by a tiny percentage. The focus on masks has become a new culture war nonsense American media thrive on.

hotmail.com

hotmail.com wrote: »

Just the madness of America is that some people are wearing masks because Trump isn't.

Masks at best, reduce the spread by a tiny percentage. The focus on masks has become a new culture war nonsense American media thrive on.

It's not media driven, Birx and Fauci both encourage the wearing. Health officials across the globe recommend it. They're mandatory on public transport in many countries including the UK and Ireland. So yes, I would trust public health officials over your opinion or Trump's.

hotmail.com

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's not media driven, Birx and Fauci both encourage the wearing. Health officials across the globe recommend it. They're mandatory on public transport in many countries including the UK and Ireland. So yes, I would trust public health officials over your opinion or Trump's.

It's not mandatory here yet and hardly anyone is wearing them.

So you take advice from US public officials?

sid waddell

It's now around 36 hours since the story about Russia paying bounties to the Taliban to kill US soldiers went public.

What has Trump done or even said in response?

To the best of my knowledge, the answer is nothing.

Are there people who still labour under the delusion that Trump being compromised by Russia was/is all a hoax?

How can anybody still seriously believe this?

sid waddell

Trump has retweeted a video in which one of his supporters shouts "white power".

In his comment over the video he types "Corrupt Joe is shot."

I don't feel I should have to expand any further about how dangerous and appalling this sort of racist, far right rhetoric is.

This is a simple "you're either against evil or you're with it" situation.

Leroy42

1 thing I never understand is that people accept that surgeons wear masks, dentists etc. They have never brought it up as a freedom issue in the past.

Yet Trump seems that wearing a mask is unnecessary and suddenly people are questioning the rationale behind it.

Even if it only reduces the risk by a tiny amount, it is hardly a major inconvenience so why bother to fight against it? Even if it makes no actual difference except to keep everyone aware of social distancing etc, isn't that useful?

Clearly the value of masks was downplayed at the start by many. But as understanding of the virus increases and efforts are made to reopen it would appear that the trade off is that people need to wear masks.

For many the lockdown was very difficult and yet when given the opportunity to return to more normal they are freaking out about a piece of cloth.

It seems that many in the US have forgotten what freedom actually means. Freedom does not give you licence to put others in danger.

ancapailldorcha

There is a whole forum on this site regarding the Covid-19 pandemic. Please keep this one focused on Trump. Posts deleted and a user has been banned.

briany

Leroy42 wrote: »

Even if it only reduces the risk by a tiny amount, it is hardly a major inconvenience so why bother to fight against it? Even if it makes no actual difference except to keep everyone aware of social distancing etc, isn't that useful?

It's the hill they've chosen to die on. To wear a mask would be, at most, a minor imposition on their freedom. It seems like the kind of thing that is related to this pervasive idea in the American right that the Coronavirus is really a made up thing and to do anything that is recommended to prevent its spread is to kowtow to fear mongering.

But their claims are obvious b***s**t, and if they're that worried about their freedom, then it's funny they don't apply that philosophy across the board. Maybe Trumpers are just more used to the curtailing of freedoms that were introduced by the Patriot Act even though that was far bigger than simply being asked to wear a face mask in public. I suppose that once it doesn't involve messing with the second amendment or isn't in their FB feed that month, they're blind to it.

Trump should change tack and encourage all his followers to wear face masks, help crush the curve and get America's economy back on track. Well, that's what he ought to do if he wants an easier path to reelection, anyway.

Carfacemandog

I'll just leave this here. Desperate ploy to get people to talk about anything but his subservience to Putin?

https://twitter.com/KatyVotingBlue/status/1277225441657577475

Midlife

One month on since Trump ordered the reopening of churches (funny how that wasn't a state level issue)

An outbreak at a Pentecostal church in Oregon, where hundreds of worshipers resumed gathering over Memorial Day weekend, forced an entire county to return to phase one of its reopening after local officials traced 258 cases of Covid-19 back to the facility. In West Virginia, six health departments across the state have reported coronavirus outbreaks linked to churches. One of them, a Baptist church in Greenbrier County, had 34 congregants test positive for the virus. And in Texas, which hit an all-time high of new cases last week, health officials have received numerous reports of church-related exposures.

extra gravy

Midlife wrote: »

One month on since Trump ordered the reopening of churches (funny how that wasn't a state level issue)

Do we have a list of what Trump supporters class as state level issues? Or do they pick and choose when it suits them?

moon2

States in reopening phases but nobody mixing

<Snip a line to make a point>

Now cases rising. Not a coincidence. It's the cause
.

You failed to take into account the multitude of voices saying states were reopening far too soon.

The US never had cases under control, and Trump was pushing for reopening while they were still on the rise.

I don't think you need to go further than this to explain why cases are rising. The is further reenforced by the locality of these cases. They're worst in states which reopened first.

aloyisious

Mindful of the Mod's warning about not bringing in the -19 issue into the Trump discussion, and that I'm not going to go looking for the recent pages concerning the future of Trumps campaign manager, does the cancellation of two of the V/P's visits to different states as part of Trumps re-election campaign signal a change in course for the campaign? Has the other major U.S issue caused a major bleed of support from GOP "swayable" voters AND other undecided voters?

If there is a change in course, it would need the approval of Trump himself, if it to have any chance of success. I can't imagine Pence and his own team running off with designs of their own without a major row between Trump and Pence.

Has the attack by Trump on mail-in voting been a factor in swaying voters intentions?

aloyisious

sid waddell wrote: »

Trump has retweeted a video in which one of his supporters shouts "white power".

In his comment over the video he types "Corrupt Joe is shot."

I don't feel I should have to expand any further about how dangerous and appalling this sort of racist, far right rhetoric is.

This is a simple "you're either against evil or you're with it" situation.

According to a report on MSN [origin Reuters] he's deleted the tweet, which would obviate any such action by Twitter Admin but that might not stop it from pursuing the issuing of the tweet, given it's reference to Joe.

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/trump-retweets-then-deletes-video-of-supporter-shouting-white-power/ar-BB164lxd?ocid=msedgntp

stinkypinky

Haven't heard much about this, it will give Trump and Republicans plenty of ammunition.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/25/politics/new-jersey-attorney-general-announces-voting-fraud-charges/index.html

A city councilman and a councilman-elect are among the four people charged with voting fraud related to the May 12 municipal election, New Jersey Attorney General Gurbir Grewal announced Thursday.

Paterson City Councilman Michael Jackson, Councilman-Elect Alex Mendez, Shelim Khalique and Abu Razyen have been charged with criminal conduct involving mail-in ballots during the election.

Midlife

extra gravy wrote: »

Do we have a list of what Trump supporters class as state level issues? Or do they pick and choose when it suits them?

It's basically anything he can just have someone write an executive order to make him sound decisive and effective.

Like protecting statues or opening churches.

Quin_Dub

stinkypinky wrote: »

Haven't heard much about this, it will give Trump and Republicans plenty of ammunition.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/25/politics/new-jersey-attorney-general-announces-voting-fraud-charges/index.html

A city councilman and a councilman-elect are among the four people charged with voting fraud related to the May 12 municipal election, New Jersey Attorney General Gurbir Grewal announced Thursday.

Paterson City Councilman Michael Jackson, Councilman-Elect Alex Mendez, Shelim Khalique and Abu Razyen have been charged with criminal conduct involving mail-in ballots during the election.

To be honest , all that proves is how difficult it is to get away with.

They were caught red handed, rather easily - They system works and shows that it is next to impossible to commit large scale fraud with mail-in/absentee ballots successfully.

Quin_Dub

This is a headline article on Fox News today.

A stretch of lackluster polling for President Trump has some Republican operatives nervous about the president’s reelection prospects in November – with some even floating the possibility for the first time that Trump could drop out if his poll numbers don’t rebound.

“It’s too early, but if the polls continue to worsen, you can see a scenario where he drops out,” one GOP operative who asked to remain anonymous told Fox News.

“I’ve heard the talk but I doubt it’s true,” another said. “My bet is, he drops if he believes there’s no way to win.”

You can view this two ways - It's a warning shot to Trump (and to his base) from his key supporters to buck up his campaign or it's the beginning of a shift away from him to try to protect to the wider GOP.

Either way - This admission of the current reality on Fox is an interesting development.

Procedural question - If Trump did decide to throw in the towel , how would that work in practice?

Can they simply select someone else or would they have to re-run some kind of Primary again?

Penn

Quin_Dub wrote: »

This is a headline article on Fox News today.




You can view this two ways - It's a warning shot to Trump (and to his base) from his key supporters to buck up his campaign or it's the beginning of a shift away from him to try to protect to the wider GOP.

Either way - This admission of the current reality on Fox is an interesting development.

Procedural question - If Trump did decide to throw in the towel , how would that work in practice?

Can they simply select someone else or would they have to re-run some kind of Primary again?

I don't think he'll drop out for the simple reasons that the worse his polling gets, the more his underlings will try sugarcoat them or only show him polls which favour him to keep him happy, and I don't think he'd ever truly accept that he's not actually doing well and might actually lose. The fact he mostly came from behind in 2016 and knows how to game the media and advertising, plus has enough of a rabid fanbase that he believes is larger than it actually is simply because it's louder.... I don't know if he actually believes he might lose. I think he'll still believe he can turn things around up until the point where it's too late to pull out without it being painfully obvious why. At which point he'd lose but call into question the result (I don't think he'd legally challenge it, but just complain that the Democrats stole the election with the fake news and mail-in ballots etc and they got away with it etc).

If he's going to pull out, he'd need to do it soon to maintain any kind of illusion that he's not doing it because he knows he'd lose but rather for (insert bullsh*t reason his followers would lap up).

If he did leave at this stage, I think it'd just go to Pence. Maybe not automatically, but enough of the GOP would throw in behind him to try keep their chances afloat rather than letting someone else challenge Pence for it, and Pence would do whatever the GOP wanted provided he kept the nomination.

Quin_Dub

Penn wrote: »

I don't think he'll drop out for the simple reasons that the worse his polling gets, the more his underlings will try sugarcoat them or only show him polls which favour him to keep him happy, and I don't think he'd ever truly accept that he's not actually doing well and might actually lose. The fact he mostly came from behind in 2016 and knows how to game the media and advertising, plus has enough of a rabid fanbase that he believes is larger than it actually is simply because it's louder.... I don't know if he actually believes he might lose. I think he'll still believe he can turn things around up until the point where it's too late to pull out without it being painfully obvious why. At which point he'd lose but call into question the result (I don't think he'd legally challenge it, but just complain that the Democrats stole the election with the fake news and mail-in ballots etc and they got away with it etc).

If he's going to pull out, he'd need to do it soon to maintain any kind of illusion that he's not doing it because he knows he'd lose but rather for (insert bullsh*t reason his followers would lap up).

If he did leave at this stage, I think it'd just go to Pence. Maybe not automatically, but enough of the GOP would throw in behind him to try keep their chances afloat rather than letting someone else challenge Pence for it, and Pence would do whatever the GOP wanted provided he kept the nomination.

I agree - I don't think he will either , but the fact that Fox News are even willing to have a discussion of this nature is a striking shift in their reporting.

eldamo

Carfacemandog wrote: »

I'll just leave this here. Desperate ploy to get people to talk about anything but his subservience to Putin?

https://twitter.com/KatyVotingBlue/status/1277225441657577475

I came here to talk about how awful it is that this story went off the front pages so quickly, for a school teacher this could have been career suicide, let alone the president of the united states.


I really hate this added layer of intrigue. I can't decide which is scarier, that this is all intricately thought out, or just the randomly firing neurons of a dotard....

For Forks Sake

And when you thought things couldn't get any more surreal in the land of Trump

Iran issues arrest warrant for Trump, asks Interpol to help

An Iranian prosecutor said the country had issued an Interpol arrest warrant for United States Donald Trump for his role in the assassination of a leading military commander earlier this year.

The Tehran prosecutor, Ali Alqasimehr said the international warrant included Trump and more than 30 others allegedly involved in the 3 January drone strike that killed General Qassem Soleimani, commander of Iran’s clandestine overseas paramilitary force, the official Islamic Republic News Agency (IRNA) reported on Monday.

Tea drinker

Carfacemandog wrote: »

I'll just leave this here. Desperate ploy to get people to talk about anything but his subservience to Putin?

https://twitter.com/KatyVotingBlue/status/1277225441657577475

Subservience to Putin? I mean *maybe* US is subservient to a foreign power but it's unlikely to be Russia.