Why aren't you a vegan!?

YFlyer

Morris Moss wrote: »

Yes because it's farmers who dictate the price, good man, the ironic thing is farmers care for more animals than you or any other vegan ever will, if you think farmers are in it for money you really don't have the first clue about farming.

Farmers don't care for dairy cattle once production levels cease.

Xcellor

Hoboo wrote: »

You're talking about intensive factory farming.

The majority of dairy, beef and sheep farmers, where animals roam and graze, do it because it's tradition in the family. They more often than not have second jobs. Farm pays for itself with a bit leftover but sfa for the majority.

Ah come on dairy, beef etc roam because we have grass, it grows, it's cheaper to feed. Grass fed is practical and cost effective - if it wasn't, it wouldn't be done.

What about pigs? How often do you see herds of pigs grazing the fields? Do we care less about their welfare? They are natural foragers why don't we see them in the green fields?

emaherx

Xcellor wrote: »

Ah come on dairy, beef etc roam because we have grass, it grows, it's cheaper to feed. Grass fed is practical and cost effective - if it wasn't, it wouldn't be done.

What about pigs? How often do you see herds of pigs grazing the fields? Do we care less about their welfare? They are natural foragers why don't we see them in the green fields?

300 pig farms in Ireland out of the 172,000 farms even if they were all free range it's unlikely you'd see many. Again many of the mixed family pig/poultry cattle/sheep farms are now just cattle/sheep because they didn't want to compete with that particular market.

Thelonious Monk

The farmers who aren't in it for the money are driving tractors around Merrion Sq right now moaning about money and beef. Do they ever stop moaning? Clearly it's an oversaturated market. Change career. Then again by the look of these fellows I'm not sure what else they'd be cut out for.

emaherx

YFlyer wrote: »

Farmers don't care for dairy cattle once production levels cease.

Even animals marked for culling are cared for right up until they are slaughtered for meat.

Thelonious Monk

emaherx wrote: »

300 pig farms in Ireland out of the 172,000 farms even if they were all free range it's unlikely you'd see many. Again many of the mixed family pig/poultry cattle/sheep farms are now just cattle/sheep because they didn't want to compete with that particular market.

The vast majority of pig farms have 1000+ pigs. They never see the light of day. I mean why can't people just be happy with having pig once a week or so, do we really need to have everything made on this horrible industrial level?

emaherx

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The vast majority of pig farms have 1000+ pigs. They never see the light of day. I mean why can't people just be happy with having pig once a week or so, do we really need to have everything made on this horrible industrial level?

I actually won't disagree with either of you about how factory farming of pigs/poultry is a horrible practice. But fecked if I'm going to agree that 600 factory farmers represent how the other 172,000 farmers care for their animals.

YFlyer

emaherx wrote: »

Even animals marked for culling are cared for right up until they are slaughtered for meat.

Dairy cows are slaughtered once they can't produce milk.

Graces7

YFlyer wrote: »

Dairy cows are slaughtered once they can't produce milk.

not sure what your point is?

jimgoose

YFlyer wrote: »

Dairy cows are slaughtered once they can't produce milk.

I have it on good authority that McDonalds ends up buying a lot of tired old gals loaded up with antibiotics.

emaherx

YFlyer wrote: »

Dairy cows are slaughtered once they can't produce milk.

Yes, they are the cows marked for culling they are slaughtered for meat. Where do you think they go?

emaherx

jimgoose wrote: »

I have it on good authority that McDonalds ends up buying a lot of tired old gals loaded up with antibiotics.

You need to consult your good authority because they are full of poo.

jimgoose

emaherx wrote: »

You need to consult your good authority because they are full of poo.

Excuse me? I know a chap down East who's in that business, he most certainly is not "full of poo".

emaherx

jimgoose wrote: »

Excuse me? I know a chap down East who's in that business, he most certainly is not "full of poo".

Antibiotic use in animals is very regulated and tested for at the meat factories. Anyone sending cattle for slaughter loaded up on antibiotics will be guaranteed a farm inspection along with heatvy penalties.

jimgoose

emaherx wrote: »

Antibiotic use in animals is very regulated and tested for at the meat factories. Anyone sending cattle for slaughter loaded up on antibiotics will be guaranteed a farm inspection along with heatvy penalties.

The "ladies" would have been on heavy antibiotics during their dairying careers, of course it's well cleared out of them by slaughter.

emaherx

jimgoose wrote: »

The "ladies" would have been on heavy antibiotics during their dairying careers, of course it's well cleared out of them by slaughter.

So, what you are saying is McDonald's are buying up old cows and fattening them until they are fit and free of antibiotics?

If so you should have said that not the misleading way you put it earlier. Should also be noted milk is also tested for antibiotics and would have similar consequences for the farmer so they were hardly loaded up over their dairying careers.

jimgoose

emaherx wrote: »

So, what you are saying is McDonald's are buying up old cows and fattening them until they are fit and free of antibiotics?

If so you should have said that not the misleading way you put it earlier. Should also be noted milk is also tested for antibiotics and would have similar consequences for the farmer so they were hardly loaded up over their dairying careers.

What I am saying is that McDonalds are buying a lot of cheap beef from people like my acquaintance, who in turn buy knackered old cows from dairy farms.

emaherx

jimgoose wrote: »

What I am saying is that McDonalds are buying a lot of cheap beef from people like my acquaintance, who in turn buy knackered old cows from dairy farms.

It's not really what you said though is it?

jimgoose

emaherx wrote: »

It's not really what you said though is it?

I have no intention of arguing with you over semantics.

emaherx

jimgoose wrote: »

I have no intention of arguing with you over semantics.

Don't bother everyone else can read that you had it on good authority that McDonald's were buying cows loaded with antibiotics and then you changed your storey when you were called out on it. Think it's fine to leave it just there.

jimgoose

emaherx wrote: »

Don't bother everyone else can read that you had it on good authority that McDonald's were buying cows loaded with antibiotics and then you changed your storey when you were called out on it. Think it's fine to leave it just there.

Just repeating what I was told. I changed no "story", even when the Mighty Warrior "called me out". Jesus! :pac::pac::pac:

emaherx

jimgoose wrote: »

What I am saying is that McDonalds are buying a lot of cheap beef from people like my acquaintance, who in turn buy knackered old cows from dairy farms.

jimgoose wrote: »

I have it on good authority that McDonalds ends up buying a lot of tired old gals loaded up with antibiotics.

These are not the same.

jimgoose

emaherx wrote: »

These are not the same.

I don't care. Go outside and feel the rain. 'Bye!

emaherx

jimgoose wrote: »

I don't care. Go outside and feel the rain. 'Bye!

See ya,

Plumbthedepths

jimgoose wrote: »

I don't care. Go outside and feel the rain. 'Bye!

Hilarious you got caught out by someone who knows their stuff. lol.

jimgoose

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Hilarious you got caught out by someone who knows their stuff. lol.

I'd hardly call it "hilarious", now. Your man seems to be familiar with various rules and regulations, but he mightn't know his stuff quite as well as he thinks he does.

Plumbthedepths

jimgoose wrote: »

I'd hardly call it "hilarious", now. Your man seems to be familiar with various rules and regulations, but he mightn't know his stuff quite as well as he thinks he does.

I think it's hilarious that after you got caught you changed your story instead of putting down the shovel, but hey ho.

jimgoose

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I think it's hilarious that after you got caught you changed your story instead of putting down the shovel, but hey ho.

Good for you. Have fun!

_Brian

Lots of people here seem not to like the way they think farms run and farmers run their business.

Talking online about this stuff achieves nothing because anyone with a half knowledge of farming sees your information is second or third hand recounts of stuff that happens on factory farms in other countries. Quite a few people are embarrassing themselves saying cattle loaded with antibiotics are being killed in Ireland. Antibiotics are expensive here, prescription only and highly regulated and their use traceable from an animals birth to slaughter, it’s massive trouble for a farmer if they send an animal to slaughter within the withdrawal periods - massive.

The best advice is if you have an ideal farming practice you want to see happen, stop talking about it and go out and put your money where your mouth is.
If you want free range, organic, cage free, pasture fed or whatever, go out and find an Irish farmer doing this and buy their produce. Use your voting power to build a market, create demand and farms will shift production to fill the demand. Farmers can’t move to more expensive production methods without an appropriate market to sell produce into.

Currently 30% of organically produced meat in Ireland is killed commercially because there is no market.

At the last round of applications for the organics scheme 60 % of applicants who were eligible were rejected access, even though they met the application criteria - consumers aren’t buying the products.

So it’s very hollow to see non farming people here banging on about increasing farming standards when consumers aren’t willing to buy the products.

IK09

_Brian wrote: »

Lots of people here seem not to like the way they think farms run and farmers run their business.

Talking online about this stuff achieves nothing because anyone with a half knowledge of farming sees your information is second or third hand recounts of stuff that happens on factory farms in other countries. Quite a few people are embarrassing themselves saying cattle loaded with antibiotics are being killed in Ireland. Antibiotics are expensive here, prescription only and highly regulated and their use traceable from an animals birth to slaughter, it’s massive trouble for a farmer if they send an animal to slaughter within the withdrawal periods - massive.

The best advice is if you have an ideal farming practice you want to see happen, stop talking about it and go out and put your money where your mouth is.
If you want free range, organic, cage free, pasture fed or whatever, go out and find an Irish farmer doing this and buy their produce. Use your voting power to build a market, create demand and farms will shift production to fill the demand. Farmers can’t move to more expensive production methods without an appropriate market to sell produce into.

Currently 30% of organically produced meat in Ireland is killed commercially because there is no market.

At the last round of applications for the organics scheme 60 % of applicants who were eligible were rejected access, even though they met the application criteria - consumers aren’t buying the products.

So it’s very hollow to see non farming people here banging on about increasing farming standards when consumers aren’t willing to buy the products.

Schooled.