Why aren't you a vegan!?

gozunda

IrishKev wrote: »

Even if you take 'land use' out (much of which is clearing land for farming) agriculture still takes a massively negative toll on the planet, end of.

For somebody who clearly doesn't agree with vegans' principles, you sure do a lot of posting on their subforum. It's almost as if you enjoy bashing.

The fact is that all types of agriculture makes only a relatively small impact compared to the transport and energy sector - but more importantly agriculture feeds the worlds population of 7.7 billion. But hey none of that suits the propaganda does it?

But again incorrect. The land use given in that pie chart appears to include a whole range of non agricultural activities and again skews the figures to make it look like agriculture is a bigger emitter of ghgs than it actually is.

Btw I I have stated clearly I do not care what anyone chooses to eat - but do explain how the fuk has any of the above facts have to do with not "agree(ing) with vegans principles"? Yet More misinformation no? ... And allegedly that's 'bashing' ! lol.

'Ah I see thats more of attack the poster - very nice. Yes I do post about agricultural topics in a number of forums as that is the area I am interested in. But of course there will always be those who do not like discussion. But hey there you go

emaherx

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yes 11% now, but most of that is Coillte Sitka Spruce which isn't particularly good for the environment. Only a shameful 2% of Ireland has native trees.

Meath is one of the least forested county's in Ireland yet has the most hedgerows full of well astablished native trees. These do not appear as part of Ireland 11% forest cover but 22,000km of trees in a line form an important part of Ireland's carbon sinks but get 0 credit. Other countries claim more forest cover than Ireland but have no where near the amount of trees in their wide open flat farm land.

Hedgerows are perhaps the most characteristic feature of the Meath landscape and provide a value
refuge for biodiversity in a landscape dominated by large tracts of intensive agriculture contribute
positively to the landscape of Meath. In 2010 Meath County Council commissioned a tree, woodland
and hedgerow survey of County Meath1
to provide baseline ecological data on type, extent and
condition, of selected trees, woodlands and hedgerows. The survey estimated that are over 22,000
kilometres of hedgerow in the county which translates to an average length of 9.5 kilometres of
hedgerow per square kilometre of land, which is more than most counties in Ireland. In addition, most
Meath hedgerows are old – over 80% are shown as field boundaries on maps from the 1840s, and
many are likely to be much older than that and act as a significant ecological corridor. At least 36 species of trees and shrubs can be found in County Meath hedgerows.

Thelonious Monk

I don't know about the hedgerows thing but all you have to do is go over to England, London even, and see the amount of trees absolutely everywhere. Coming out of Gatwick, the surrounding areas are like the Black Forest compared to Ireland. The lack of trees in Ireland is an urban and rural problem.

emaherx

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I don't know about the hedgerows thing but all you have to do is go over to England, London even, and see the amount of trees absolutely everywhere. Coming out of Gatwick, the surrounding areas are like the Black Forest compared to Ireland. The lack of trees in Ireland is an urban and rural problem.

You are right you don't seem to know, but England which also has a lot of hedgerows has allot bigger fields in farmland meaning there are less hedgerows. 22,000km is significant and that's just one county. Trees don't remove any extra carbon by having them in a clump and calling them forest or having them in rows. Also many small wooded areas here with native species don't count on recorded forest.

Thelonious Monk

emaherx wrote: »

You are right you don't seem to know, but England which also has a lot of hedgerows has allot bigger fields in farmland meaning there are less hedgerows. 22,000km is significant and that's just one county. Trees don't remove any extra carbon by having them in a clump and calling them forest or having them in rows. Also many small wooded areas here with native species don't count on recorded forest.

Flying over Ireland you see feck all trees, flying over the South of England it looks quite forested. Everyone likes trees, we should be planting more.

emaherx

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Flying over Ireland you see feck all trees, flying over the South of England it looks quite forested. Everyone likes trees, we should be planting more.

From a quick google, it would seem England has less forest. The whole UK is only slightly better.

The area of woodland in the UK at 31 March 2019 is estimated to be 3.19 million hectares. This represents 13% of the total land area in the UK, 10% in England, 15% in Wales, 19% in Scotland and 8% in Northern Ireland.

maybe stop flying all over Ireland and the UK it's bad for the environment

There is 382,000km of hedgerows total in Ireland.

Thelonious Monk

Well maybe it's only that area that is so forested, I can't speak for the North of England.

emaherx

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well maybe it's only that area that is so forested, I can't speak for the North of England.

The point is Ireland's forests are smaller and more spread out it dosen't make them any less significant. Also trees in hedgerows are just as significant. I wont disagree about needing more but we have more than we are given credit for.

Belgium for example has 22% forest cover but they have very little almost no hedgerows through their farm land.

Bass Reeves

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I don't know about the hedgerows thing but all you have to do is go over to England, London even, and see the amount of trees absolutely everywhere. Coming out of Gatwick, the surrounding areas are like the Black Forest compared to Ireland. The lack of trees in Ireland is an urban and rural problem.

Looks can be deceiving. UK forrestry cover would be 13%. The most forestry is in Wales. They would not have the same density of Hedgerows as us. England itself has less than Ireland as has NI.

https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/tools-and-resources/statistics/statistics-by-topic/woodland-statistics/

A lot of climate change people have little real understanding of carbon sequestration. One of the biggest flaws in there assumptions taht all land is arable and capable of growing vegetable's grain and fruit.

If you look back at the natural history of a country you get a better idea of its capability to grow different crops. Ireland is not a great country to grow grains. Traditionally only oats and barley was grown, but the real upsurge in barley production happened in the south east after the English colonized us. Even to this day we cannot to grow wheat without using chemicals and most is for animal feed as it lacks the hardness to make really goof flour.

If you read the old books written by the monks, Fish, meat, fowl and dairy was the mainstay along with vegetable, fruit and Oats along with barley were the main carbohydrates. it was not until Sir Walter Raleigh introduced the humble spud we had a carbohydrate that was very efficient to grow in Ireland. This lead to a large population surge in the late 18th and early 19 century that was halted by the famine and we had a population decline until the mid 1900's. During the period when the spud was the main staple of the diet the Irish were the tallest population in Europe. This was due to a diet of potatoes with protein provided mainy by dairy( we exported huge amounts of butter so the butter milk provided the protein element). In general Beef and pork was salted for the British army but mutton, fish and shell fish were available during this period.

I suspect that if we all become Vegans we will need to import a large amount of them

wakka12

https://www.livekindly.co/europe-meat-consumption-dropped-20/?fbclid=IwAR2e2TkcLL0pFQnROuWfJ7rW9-c0SOdbD3hS55KdSamH1n6SSyAWvAKkvWA
Looks like this explosion in interest in climate change since September might actually be having a real effect. Europe's meat consumption has reduced by 20% in 3 months. Shows how different boards demographic is to real life, that a lot of people do care about the environment, maybe there is hope.

emaherx

wakka12 wrote: »

https://www.livekindly.co/europe-meat-consumption-dropped-20/?fbclid=IwAR2e2TkcLL0pFQnROuWfJ7rW9-c0SOdbD3hS55KdSamH1n6SSyAWvAKkvWA
Looks like this explosion in interest in climate change since September might actually be having a real effect. Europe's meat consumption has reduced by 20% in 3 months. Shows how different boards demographic is to real life, that a lot of people do care about the environment, maybe there is hope.

Who are you claiming dosen't care about the environment? Haven't seen too many here that meet that description. (There were a small few alright but I'm not sure they were serious) I personally take matters of the environment very seriously.

emaherx

wakka12 wrote: »

https://www.livekindly.co/europe-meat-consumption-dropped-20/?fbclid=IwAR2e2TkcLL0pFQnROuWfJ7rW9-c0SOdbD3hS55KdSamH1n6SSyAWvAKkvWA
Looks like this explosion in interest in climate change since September might actually be having a real effect. Europe's meat consumption has reduced by 20% in 3 months. Shows how different boards demographic is to real life, that a lot of people do care about the environment, maybe there is hope.

Just so you know, it might not actually be true.

https://www.vgn.news/all-news/fact-check-did-europe-s-meat-consumption-really-drop-by-20-over-three-months

wakka12

emaherx wrote: »

Who are you claiming dosen't care about the environment? Haven't seen too many here that meet that description. (There were a small few alright but I'm not sure they were serious) I personally take matters of the environment very seriously.

Literally the dozens of posters saying climate change isnt real,that the kids protesting are morons, that they think all this talk is just a fad, a scam , that Ireland is too small to effect the environment etc

emaherx

wakka12 wrote: »

Literally the dozens of posters saying climate change isnt real,that the kids protesting are morons, that they think all this talk is just a fad, a scam , that Ireland is too small to effect the environment etc

Yea, the hit and runners.
Of those of us actually engaged in conversation, the environment is an important issue, we don't deny climate change or agriculture having a role. But we also don't think a shift to an all plant diet is the solution.

gozunda

wakka12 wrote: »

https://www.livekindly.co/europe-meat-consumption-dropped-20/?fbclid=IwAR2e2TkcLL0pFQnROuWfJ7rW9-c0SOdbD3hS55KdSamH1n6SSyAWvAKkvWA
Looks like this explosion in interest in climate change since September might actually be having a real effect. Europe's meat consumption has reduced by 20% in 3 months. Shows how different boards demographic is to real life, that a lot of people do care about the environment, maybe there is hope.

'Explosion'?

So a vegan website is making the bizarre claim that meat consumption has somehow decreased 'by 20%" in Europe - as detailed by a "red meat industry rep' from New Zealand? And that piece of information is told by Charlotte - who "has an upper second class honors in History from Oxford Brookes University and a postgraduate certificate in Cultural Heritage from Winchester University. She loves music, travel, and animals. Charlotte resides on the South coast of the UK.

All righty then - Case closed! :rolleyes:

gozunda

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I don't know about the hedgerows thing but all you have to do is go over to England, London even, and see the amount of trees absolutely everywhere. Coming out of Gatwick, the surrounding areas are like the Black Forest compared to Ireland. The lack of trees in Ireland is an urban and rural problem.

As detailed perhaps best thing we could do might be to give up regular flying to make a big difference to climate change and appreciate what we have in what is a unique European agricultural landscape

Here is Luke Ming Flanagan detailing the importance of hedgerows in Ireland to the EU Parliament

Speaking in the European Parliament in Strasbourg at the Committee on Agriculture and Rural Affairs, the independent Roscommon MEP, Luke Ming Flanagan, raised the issue of Ireland’s hedgerows, which cover up to 6.4% of the land in Ireland, yet do not get factored into the percentage of tree cover in the Forestry Strategy.

In Ireland we often get hit with the figure of 11% tree cover or forest cover but our traditional hedgerows contain some of the most diverse and sustainable trees planted in Ireland.

gypsy79

Deleted User wrote: »

Would you be comfortable if dogs or horses or cats were farmed in accordance with the same methods, then, to add more diversity to our menus?

I have eaten two of these. And presume there is a reason why no one eats the third.

I really like one of them. The most common

gypsy79

Odelay wrote: »

Farm animals are often treated better than many humans. Given the choice of coming back as a dairy cow or someone in the third world, I’d prefer to come back as the cow.

How many times have you been to the third world?

Bass Reeves

wakka12 wrote: »

https://www.livekindly.co/europe-meat-consumption-dropped-20/?fbclid=IwAR2e2TkcLL0pFQnROuWfJ7rW9-c0SOdbD3hS55KdSamH1n6SSyAWvAKkvWA
Looks like this explosion in interest in climate change since September might actually be having a real effect. Europe's meat consumption has reduced by 20% in 3 months. Shows how different boards demographic is to real life, that a lot of people do care about the environment, maybe there is hope.

Even f it was true it will not matter (a F@@K) until the yanks put petrol and diesel to a dollar a litre. Unless fuel prices have changed in two years ( I doubt it with Trump) it about 80c/liter in US money at present. Until the yank changes his habit we are all p!55ing against the proverbial wind.

FeirmeoirtTed

wakka12 wrote: »

https://www.livekindly.co/europe-meat-consumption-dropped-20/?fbclid=IwAR2e2TkcLL0pFQnROuWfJ7rW9-c0SOdbD3hS55KdSamH1n6SSyAWvAKkvWA
Looks like this explosion in interest in climate change since September might actually be having a real effect. Europe's meat consumption has reduced by 20% in 3 months. Shows how different boards demographic is to real life, that a lot of people do care about the environment, maybe there is hope.

That article is the exact reason why people are so sceptical about journalism and everything science related today. You literally quoted whats written there as fact. That is being used by you to persuade people that Europe has reduced their meat consumption by 20 % in 3 months. Honestly do you think that is factually correct? We should question everything that's written by journalists and scientists today with a healthy amount of scepticism because opinion is all to often trotted out as fact to push personal agendas.

YFlyer

emaherx wrote: »

Who are you claiming dosen't care about environment?

Greta opponents and those complaining that the school kids left some litter behind during their day of protest.

YFlyer

gypsy79 wrote: »

I have eaten two of these. And presume there is a reason why no one eats the third.

I really like one of them. The most common

Why not eat cat?

emaherx

YFlyer wrote: »

Why not eat cat?

Be very hard to farm. Higher disease risk, not much meat on them. It's a ridiculous question.

gozunda

YFlyer wrote: »

Why not eat cat?

Why not eat rat? Or cacti? Or grass! Not everything makes for good eating you know. Just because something may be marginally edible ie rat - it does not follow that people should be obliged to eat it. Hmmm cacti sandwich - sounds lovely enjoy!

YFlyer

emaherx wrote: »

Be very hard to farm. Higher disease risk, not much meat on them. It's a ridiculous question.

Was asking the reason on gypsy79 behalf as well.

gozunda

YFlyer wrote: »

Was asking the reason on gypsy behalf as well.

Who?

YFlyer

gozunda wrote: »

Who?

gypsy79

YFlyer

gozunda wrote: »

Why not eat rat? Or cacti? Or grass! Not everything makes for good eating you know. Just because something may be marginally edible ie rat - it does not follow that people should be obliged to eat it. Hmmm cacti sandwich - sounds lovely enjoy!

The person ate horse and dog from the option of horse, dog and cat.

gozunda

YFlyer wrote: »

The person ate horse and dog from the option of horse, dog and cat.

And? Just because something is marginaly edible like rat etc doesn't make mean people 'have' to eat it. Its a crap argument tbh.

YFlyer

gozunda wrote: »

And? Just because something is marginaly edible like rat etc doesn't make mean people 'have' to eat it. Its a crap argument tbh.

Huh.