“Ireland has a rape culture”

Hal3000

cloudatlas wrote: »

Isn't 'rape culture' a term that also covers all forms of dehumanising women and their experience such as by using language like all the pejorative terms ('bitch', 'slut' 'brazzer' etc.,) which is labelled 'banter' but only serves to dehumanise the woman along with saying that certain services shouldn't be provided, articles shouldn't be published etc.,
If the accused isn't found guility then the woman is a 'liar' and her bad experience is negated.

Is it ? So name calling now equates to rape ? I don’t agree at all with ever dehumanizing anyone, but these terms are defined by laws not by some outraged snow flake somewhere that decided name calling is potentially rape. I would define name calling as you did above a very dehumanizing act, but it is certainly not rape. We will be going down a dangerous path trying to lump in such actions under a very serious offense.

The chan chan man

Careful...there once was a boy who cried wolf..

Danzy

Omackeral wrote: »

We do not live in a rape culture.

Allow me to go at this from another angle. I work as a Prison Officer. Rapists in prison are seen as the lowest of the low. They are scum. Murderers are miles above them. What does that tell you? Sex offenders are the only category of prisoner requiring their own prison, with the exception of republican subversives, but that's politics. Imagine that though, their own prison because even the dregs of society won't accept them. Rapists aren't accepted in decent society and aren't accepted in indecent society. Nobody likes them. Nobody.

We do not live in a rape culture.

People who talk about rape culture, white privilege, the patriarchy etc always tend to be from very well to do areas.

Their views can only be formed by a limited life experience and a need to judge those down the ladder from them.

anewme

cloudatlas wrote: »

Isn't 'rape culture' a term that also covers all forms of dehumanising women and their experience such as by using language like all the pejorative terms ('bitch', 'slut' 'brazzer' etc.,) which is labelled 'banter' but only serves to dehumanise the woman along with saying that certain services shouldn't be provided, articles shouldn't be published etc.,
If the accused isn't found guility then the woman is a 'liar' and her bad experience is negated.

This thread is a typical example of dehumanizing.

Posters making and thanking the opinion "I love raping".

What does that promote?

Not banter and should not be seen as.

Hal3000

anewme wrote: »

This thread is a typical example of dehumanizing.

Posters making and thanking the opinion "I love raping".

What does that promote?

Not banter and should not be seen as.

Few morons - Trolls on here, haven’t you noticed yet ? Please don’t embarrass yourself further by suggesting anyone abides by a rape culture here.

JohnMc1

Danzy wrote: »

People who talk about rape culture, white privilege, the patriarchy etc always tend to be from very well to do areas.

Their views can only be formed by a limited life experience and a need to judge those down the ladder from them.

This is the Modern Leftists in a nutshell. Sheltered and pampered. The vast majority of Antifa are trust fund babies. Yet they have the nerve to call everyone else privileged.

cloudatlas

Calhoun wrote: »

If it is then we really do have problems, the meaning of rape being diluted down so much it loses the importance of the act.

I thought what you described though was more misogyny but could be wrong.

No I'm pretty sure sociologists use the term to encompass victim blaiming, slut shaming and societal misogyny possibly leading to sexual abuse /rape as one of the consequences of those societal norms.

Omackeral

anewme wrote: »

Posters making and thanking the opinion "I love raping".

What does that promote?

What that does is show how ridiculous the term rape culture is.

For example, You might say we live in a drinking culture. Birthday? Drink. Anniversary? Drink. Funeral? Drink. Work bonding night out? Drink. We DO NOT live in a rape culture. Birthday? Nah no rape. Anniversay? I'll pass on the old rape. Funeral. Rape wouldn't really be appropriate would it? Work bonding night out? Be a bit of awkward tension Monday morning if you suggested going for a few rapes with the colleagues.

Nobody likes rapists. That was the poster's point I'm sure. It's fine to use dark humour to show up silly and stupid claims IMO.

anewme

Well, how do you know 100% if you are not the poster? It's not worth taking a chance on. How can you stand for someone s character on an anonymous message board?

Someone saying ' I love raping" is inviting questioning.

Outside of that, too many excuses around here for mysogonostic behaviour and not enough calling people out on it.

Silentcorner

anewme wrote: »

Well, how do you know 100% if you are not the poster? It's not worth taking a chance on. How can you stand for someone s character on an anonymous message board?

Someone saying ' I love raping" is inviting questioning.

Outside of that, too many excuses around here for mysogonostic behaviour and not enough calling people out on it.

The word misogynistic has lost all meaning...it has been used too often for way too many trivial things...it has lost its power.

Somebody could accuse me (or any man) of being a misogynist I wouldn't bat an eyelid anymore...the person calling me that would be a moron!

anewme

Silentcorner wrote: »

anewme wrote: »

Well, how do you know 100% if you are not the poster? It's not worth taking a chance on. How can you stand for someone s character on an anonymous message board?

Someone saying ' I love raping" is inviting questioning.

Outside of that, too many excuses around here for mysogonostic behaviour and not enough calling people out on it.

The word misogynistic has lost all meaning...it has been used too often for way too many trivial things...it has lost its power.

Somebody could accuse me (or any man) of being a misogynist I wouldn't bat an eyelid anymore...the person calling me that would be a moron!

That's your choice and interpretation.

It does not change the meaning of the word because you interpret it in your own way.

Omackeral

anewme wrote: »

Well, how do you know 100% if you are not the poster? It's not worth taking a chance on. How can you stand for someone s character on an anonymous message board?

Someone saying ' I love raping" is inviting questioning.

anewme wrote: »

That's your choice and interpretation.

It does not change the meaning of the word because you interpret it in your own way.

Speaking about changing meanings of words. The word culture in rape culture is an absolute misnomer. Culture is defined as a set of beliefs, customs or behaviors shared by peoples. What section of society in this country promotes rape can I ask? What group of people find forced penetration of another acceptable? Where are the fortnightly organised meet-ups of all these like-minded individuals? Where are their forums? Where are their meeting halls? Where is their media outlet? If you can give me answers to all those questions, then maybe I'll find the term a little more palatable. Until then, nah.

Someone saying ''I love raping'' is daft too by the way but I'm guessing it's most likely said in a tongue-in-cheek manner.

Wibbs

anewme wrote: »

Someone saying ' I love raping" is inviting questioning.

Mostly only if one is a member of the twitterati angling for likes. To most anybody else it's a "joke", one in poor taste depending on context most certainly, but not some judgement on wider society. And certainly not an indication of some misogynist patriarchy that's being wished into existence by some, when the actual evidence and facts are significantly greyer than such simplistic if easy to swallow comfortable notions. Then again people tend to prefer easy to swallow secondhand notions that are comfortable for them and what they already believe.

The very fact that rape as a word and subject is a dogwhistle for all sorts of rending of garments and gnashing of teeth and rated, outside of law, as "worse than murder" is but one example of the focus. Never mind that actual rapists are hated and under near constant threat of harm within and without our prison system shows more of the actual culture than the henny penny sky is falling down narrative of "rape culture" among the permanently anxious, neurotic and offended.

Is sexual assault a problem? Of course it bloody well is. Duuhhh. So are many other crimes against the person, but we don't live in a "crimes against the person culture" either.

Outside of that, too many excuses around here for mysogonostic behaviour and not enough calling people out on it.

Oh give me an ever loving bloody break. There are enough handwringers to go around in the online world, only too happy, nay salivating at the thought of fighting the good fight agin any "ist" and "istic" description you care to muster.

That's your choice and interpretation.

It does not change the meaning of the word because you interpret it in your own way.

I do hate to break it to you, but that's how words and concepts work. You are doing the exact same thing.

Silentcorner

anewme wrote: »

That's your choice and interpretation.

It does not change the meaning of the word because you interpret it in your own way.

I know it does not change the meaning of the word, I said it has lost its meaning, the word is meaningless....9 year old girls use it in classrooms these days to describe things they don't understand!

I know why you are using that word, it has been normalized by media and modern day outrage/hysteria culture....it says a lot more about you than it does about the people with which you refer.

anewme

Omackeral wrote: »

anewme wrote: »

Well, how do you know 100% if you are not the poster? It's not worth taking a chance on. How can you stand for someone s character on an anonymous message board?

Someone saying ' I love raping" is inviting questioning.

anewme wrote: »

That's your choice and interpretation.

It does not change the meaning of the word because you interpret it in your own way.

Someone saying ''I love raping'' is daft too by the way but I'm guessing it's most likely said in a tongue-in-cheek manner.

Do you know this person?

Can you vouch for them 100%?

Guessing its tongue in cheek leaves too big of a gap.

I've trained in a professional capacity in this area and everything you and Wibbs are saying here is totally against what I've been trained in.

How do you know better than professionals?

hetuzozaho

Wibbs wrote: »

Mostly only if one is a member of the twitterati angling for likes. To most anybody else it's a "joke", one in poor taste

I think the term rape culture would include rape jokes. From the definitions I've read online?

Feel this thread may be using different definitions - it's often useful for people to agree on such a thing before starting a debate.

I even see the twitterati denying the existence of rape culture(angling for likes as you say) and then asking what it means in their next tweet.

Omackeral

anewme wrote: »

Do you know this person?

Can you vouch for them 100%?

Guessing its tongue in cheek leaves too big of a gap.

I've trained in a professional capacity in this area and everything you and Wibbs are saying here is totally against what I've been trained in.

How do you know better than professionals?

I hope you just trained and aren't trusted to advise or educate on these matters because your attitude is frankly deluded at best and dangerous at worst. Your post is also skirting around everything put to you in that you absolutely ignored the most salient points put forward regarding culture and acceptance of rape.

Veritas Libertas

anewme wrote: »

I've trained in a professional capacity in this area and everything you and Wibbs are saying here is totally against what I've been trained in.

I don't mean to pry or be rude, but what training did you receive and from what awarding body?

(Just what is relevant to what has already been said)

Calhoun

cloudatlas wrote: »

No I'm pretty sure sociologists use the term to encompass victim blaiming, slut shaming and societal misogyny possibly leading to sexual abuse /rape as one of the consequences of those societal norms.

Well then as i said we really are trying to undermine the severity of the act in and of itself by trying to nail on every possible slight on women equating to it.

I can understand if a person committed the act and those comments were used to describe the victim. In that case we agree that is rape culture but if a person calls another loose in one form of the other i don't think its the same thing. Especially calling someone a bitch that doesn't make sense at all.

Calhoun

Omackeral wrote: »

I hope you just trained and aren't trusted to advise or educate on these matters because your attitude is frankly deluded at best and dangerous at worst. Your post is also skirting around everything put to you in that you absolutely ignored the most salient points put forward regarding culture and acceptance of rape.

The dangerous thing is attitudes like this are what leads to public bodies becoming institutionally corrupt, in the UK the crown prosecution service had allot of their rape cases thrown out or overturned because it was found they withheld evidence that proved innocence of the accused.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

pebbletroy wrote: »

<edit> post that just got me permabanned from the forum... </edit>

Boards doesn’t suit you.

Try 4chan.

Veritas Libertas

Calhoun wrote: »

The dangerous thing is attitudes like this are what leads to public bodies becoming institutionally corrupt, in the UK the crown prosecution service had allot of their rape cases thrown out or overturned because it was found they withheld evidence that proved innocence of the accused.

I don't trust feminist 'data' anymore. I did a deep dive into this a few years ago, trying to get the bottom of it.

Apparently in the questionnaires they leave questions purposefully ambiguous so that they can interpret the data to suit their needs. This type of 'science' would not be accepted anywhere else.

Like past surveys on campus sexual assault respondants were not asked whether they were raped or sexually assaulted. Such direct questions are known to yield low numbers of victimization. Instead the authors asked if the students experienced a range of behaviours from forced penetration to things like unwanted touching, grabbing, kissing. If someone rubbed up against you in a sexual way at a party; that could count.

-Christina Hoff-Sommers(The Factual Feminist)

If anyone believes I'm wrong, I'm happy to change my mind if someone can point me to some proper science regarding this issue.

20Wheel

The Factual Feminist....

wait.

what?

Veritas Libertas

20Wheel wrote: »

The Factual Feminist....
wait.
what?

Sommers' positions and writing have been characterized by the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy as "equity feminism".
(A classical-liberal or libertarian feminist perspective holding that the main political role of feminism is to ensure that the right against coercive interference is not infringed.)

Sommers has contrasted equity feminism with what she terms victim feminism and gender feminism, arguing that modern feminist thought often contains an "irrational hostility to men" and possesses an "inability to take seriously the possibility that the sexes are equal but different".

1800_Ladladlad

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

You people are so poisonous, it's incredible.

'Man-hating' - you can't stand it that women actually have rights and that men sometimes (sometimes being the key word here) end up paying for their criminal acts against women

'abortion loving' - you can't stand it that women are allowed to decide what happens to their own bodies and would prefer for them to have children they can't cope with, even in cases of rape or serious health issues, than have any say in the matter

'immigrant loving' - just say you're a racist and a xenophobe and hate anyone not like you

#metoo - yeah, just take a hashtag aimed at raising awareness of how common sexual assault/harassment is and insinuate that it's some kind of attack on men

career female - you think women aren't actual real people with rent and bills to pay just like men. God forbid any woman would want a life that doesn't revolve around raising children and cleaning the house.

Why don't you try the Daily Mail? Plenty of your sort over on their comment section.

joeguevara

How can something that happened two decades ago have any determination on modern culture. The fact that the Belfast trial was used to base this assumption is crazy especially considering the verdict (I am aware that there is an argument that the verdict could be seen as making certain actions seem acceptable).

A rape culture would mean that there is a collective belief that non-consexual sex is acceptable in Irish society. I cannot comprehend that people believe that.

Yes people are raped. Yes people are scared to come forward. But no its not acceptance. People do bad things. But they are the outside. It is never considered normal.

Victims of such a heinous act will obviously see things through that experience. This lady who felt the Belfast trial raised all her emotions is a good example. Every headline she read brought things back. It's more likely people would focus on similar stories and then correlate that to modern culture. But that doesn't make it true. If my house was burgled I would then be affected by every burglary story or case and that would make me believe we have a burglary culture. It is sloppy journalism and a dangerous headline.

Veritas Libertas

cloudatlas wrote: »

If the accused isn't found guility then the woman is a 'liar' and her bad experience is negated.

Maybe by some, but is labelled a hero in other circles.

• Dr. Christine Blasey Ford Is An American Hero HuffPo
• Ford has faced aggression and ridicule, as well as support and admiration Guardian
• The hero Christine Blasey Ford The Week
• Why Dr. Christine Blasey Ford is an American Hero Changewire

joeguevara

People saying feminism is an underlying issue is also incorrect. Feminism has so many different types and genres. I find Catherine McKinnon thesis absolutely abhorrent as she believes that every act of sex with a man is considered rape because a woman cannot consent because she has been downtrodden by men since the dawn of time.

But feminism where the basis is equality sits well with me. People who denigrate a movement because they dislike some aspects of it are close minded at best and mysoginistic at worst.

Rape and indeed all sexual assault trials are a different beast to all other criminal trials though. Because in the majority of cases it is a he said v she said basis of evidence. If someone is found not guilty then it is inferred (whether you like it or not) that the other person lied. It is rare that sex is denied and all about consent. That is different to say a murder case where it could be about men's Rea to whether the person was even there.

To say Ireland has a rape culture is saying that our society is abhorrent. It is not accepted or promoted. And to base it off this article is ludicrous.

anewme

Calhoun wrote: »

Omackeral wrote: »

I hope you just trained and aren't trusted to advise or educate on these matters because your attitude is frankly deluded at best and dangerous at worst. Your post is also skirting around everything put to you in that you absolutely ignored the most salient points put forward regarding culture and acceptance of rape.

The dangerous thing is attitudes like this are what leads to public bodies becoming institutionally corrupt, in the UK the crown prosecution service had allot of their rape cases thrown out or overturned because it was found they withheld evidence that proved innocence of the accused.

Attitudes like what exactly?

Maybe look inwards.

So, the poster who writes, I love raping is using dark humor but the poster who asks do you know this for definite must be deluded.

El_Duderino 09

noel1980 wrote: »

"Consent classes should be given in primary schools, she believes."

Consent should be included in teaching about sex, relationships and sexuality. So age appropriate discussion of consent should begin in primary school. It’s a pretty important concept and lots of people’s understanding of consent is very fuzzy.