The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

gaffer91

The facilities are in place for Dublin too as I've explained. They're perfectly adequate to facilitate multiple divisional sides across the different codes as I've said.

Voluntary amalgamations can of course be offered but as I said, Westmeath or whoever underperforming doesn't hurt the GAA, it's just bad for them. Whereas Dublin winning off a platform of unfair advantages (population, funding, playing at home etc) is bad for everyone, including Dublin.

Billy_the_Kid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121990015#Comment_121990015

That is incorrect. Those facilities do not belong to the GAA so they are not in place. It is far more practical for smaller counties to amalgamate than for larger counties to be split as the GAA already has facilities in place.

gaffer91

Well, that one is definitely incorrect. The facilities are in place as I've explained already. What facilities for training/matches do you think are not owned by the GAA? Think of clubs, Croke Park etc. Plus even the ones that are not owned by the GAA can still be used after a split. So certainly we can say with 100% accuracy the facilities are in place and sufficient for Dublin divisional sides to use after a split, for both training and matches.

Billy_the_Kid

That is incorrect. Setting up 3 brand new 'counties' with no stadiums, facilities or structures within the most expensive county is far less practical than amalgamating smaller counties with GAA stadiums and facilities already in place.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121990219#Comment_121990219

I agree with offering voluntary amalgamations as I've said, after a mandatory split of Dublin. The good news is the stadiums and facilities will exist and can be shared by new Dublin divisional sides as I've explained several times now. New structures for some administration would have to be set up, I'd grant you that, but would also be fairly straightforward. But the benefits to the GAA would be so enormous that it's a small price to pay.

You've yet to explain how the GAA doesn't own stadiums and facilities it clearly does also?

Billy_the_Kid

It is clear that it is far more practical for smaller counties to amalgamate than for larger counties to be split up as the facilities are already in place.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121990279#Comment_121990279

You see to be stuck on repeat my friend! I agree with voluntary amalgamations. Most people agree with amalgamations it seems actually it appears, it doesn't seem to be a bone of contention, on this thread at least.

But a split of Dublin should be mandatory, for the reasons already given and for the obvious benefits that would arise for the GAA. It really wouldn't be that much hassle, trust me.

Billy_the_Kid

It would be far more practical to amalgamate smaller counties than to split larger counties. However amalgamating or splitting counties will never happen .

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121990316#Comment_121990316

It would be more practical to split Dublin, plus the benefits to the GAA from that would be enormous whereas there'd be fairly minor from voluntary amalgamations.

I agree that splitting Dublin or amalgamating other counties is a long way off. Given that, how do you propose dealing with the nature, scale, combination and duration of Dublin's unique and enormous advantages in population, funding, home pitch advantage etc.?

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121990350#Comment_121990350

Dublin have a much bigger population but as has been pointed out to you multiple times by multiple people many of that population never have or never will play gaa for a variety of reasons .they get big funding in development grants to get coaches into schools where they otherwise mightnt have coaching occur. That isnt the case with many other schools in many counties around the country.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121983444#Comment_121983444

No, it wasn't. It was about getting out of Connaught, I've asked you about it multiple times, now, over a number of months. You even replied to me and spoke about Leitrim getting out of Connaught on at least one occasion (your answer to q4). You're trying to rewrite history now by claiming you were talking about helping them all along, not helping them get out of the province. That won't wash, I'm afraid.

So I haven't misrepresented you at all and my answers are both irrefutable and unchanging.

I have shown multiple times in single posts where you are claiming I said or implied certain things when I haven't. The evidence is there for everyone to see.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121983469#Comment_121983469

You said I went crazy. I asked you where. You provided a link to a post of mine, where I apparently 'dismissed' it. Dismissing something is not 'going crazy' by any stretch of the imagination. It is clear as day that you are attempting to misrepresent my words to paint yourself in a better light, you've done it again now with your final sentence in this post. Make me look like a hypocrite so that me pointing out all your hypocrisy isn't as damaging. You're even copying my words and posting style, trying to get a rise out of me. This isn't working. I'm now convinced you're a troll, on the wind-up.

I said sharing stadia isn't the done thing in GAA circles. You said it happens all the time. I asked where, and you spoke about soccer stadiums being shared. I said "Soccer?……cool, now do GAA" as that's what I was talking about. This is all a smokescreen to hide the fact that you cannot back up your argument about Dublin not having nay effect on the Connaught provincial championship.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121983481#Comment_121983481

How nice of you, to finally provide tacit admission that your words are just meaningless phrases without any foundation. Confessions of a troll.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121990350#Comment_121990350

I think you'll find that posters opposing splitting Dublin have no proposals to deal with any of this, but will try and divert the discussion with side issues about amalgamation etc.

The point is that in Ulster you have competition between teams with a total population about that of Dublin. You could amalgamate Leitrim and Fermanagh and make them competitive with Mayo or Tyrone, but this does not does not to address the problem in Dublin.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121990615#Comment_121990615

The large percentage of population who never plays GAA also holds true for other counties- it's not unique to Dublin. Even looking at registered members, it's far, far higher in Dublin than anywhere else. But it's the playing pool that is ultimately the most important and this is where Dublin's advantages are most apparent.

The issue with the Games Development funding was that it was unique to Dublin. If all counties had been equally funded, this wouldn't have been an issue, but Dublin alone were favoured, again. And the Games Development Funding absolutely helped the senior game- both by enhancing the overall quality within the county (again, not a bad thing if nationwide, but it wasn't) and reducing the opportunity cost from spending on the inter-county teams. What's your source for your last sentence? It sounds like something you are just making up to be honest.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121991750#Comment_121991750

I don't know what the confusion is here. The benefits are not exclusive to one another- yes, splitting Dublin helps the competition as a whole, yes, it helps Leitrim get out of Connaught, yes, it helps the game within Dublin- it helps all these areas. If I choose to zone in on one in a particular answer, it doesn't mean the other points don't also hold true. If I had to list every single benefit that comes from splitting Dublin every time I wrote about it, I would be writing all day. So splitting Dublin both helps Leitrim get out of Connaught and helps them in qualifiers, the League etc, and there are many more benefits besides.

I would never misrepresent you or anyone and definitely don't need to do so as the facts are on my side here- yes, Dublin are unfairly advantaged, and yes they should be split to help deal with this.

So you went crazy and dismissed it as I correctly pointed out. You said ""Soccer, eh? Cool. Now do inter-county GAA teams… See what I mean about cherry-picking?". You thought it was okay for you to use comparisons with soccer but not me- and, yes, that is hypocritical based on your own words. There is no reason, we can't compare for stadiums but not other parts of the sport- you're trying to backtrack now but you've been caught out.

I am not trolling, you just were repeating my words with nothing to back them up. It can be amusing, you've done a few times and dunnerc used to do it for basically every post. But the issue is when I say Dublin are unfairly advantaged and splitting them enhances the prestige, integrity and fairness of the All-Ireland, it's clearly true. Whereas when you jokingly assert the opposite you're just trying to troll by flipping the phrase around with nothing to back it up.

So now I've answered your post again, please explain how you propose dealing with Dublin's advantages in population, funding and playing at home?

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992383#Comment_121992383

Yeah I agree with you; I think the issue is some of the Dublin supporters here can't seem to even accept that the population, funding, home pitch etc are advantages, never mind that we should take steps to deal with them. All the arguments saying these are not advantages have been eviscerated countless times over the course of the thread but still people come back and just say the same things again.

I do think if counties want to voluntarily amalgamate, then they should be allowed, but the benefits will be fairly minor. Whereas splitting Dublin will be enormously beneficial, for every single county.

Billy_the_Kid

Some shock that New York were beaten by Mayo yesterday considering the huge population advantage, always playing at home and so much money that players are even flown over and paid to play club games ! ...Its almost like the only relevant metric is the actually playing population of a county.

Leroy42

What would the populations of a two-split or even four-split Dublin be and wouldn't they still be far superior to many counties?

And that is before we get into the issue of Dublin hurling which does not need a split so you may end up with different teams for different sports.

There is another element of a split that nobody seems to be considering. Due to its size, many very good players never get on the Dublin panel, but would probably get on many other panels. So far from splitting the current panel into 2 or 4, it might mean having 4 strong Dublins all competing. What would that do the AI competition that the semis might be and all Dublin affair? Leinster final between South Dublin and Fingal?

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992761#Comment_121992761

Oh the New York comparison has been dealt with numerous times already over the course of this thread, so I suggest you go and reread… How funding advantage do New York have? If we go by playing population we're also forced to conclude again that Dublin alone should be split though, not sure if you want to go down that route? I do, but I don't think you do.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992828#Comment_121992828

The divisional sides probably would be stronger than some counties, it's true, for now at least. But this is all the more reason for a split of Dublin- rather than concentrating the unfair advantages, you'd be dispersing them among several which is far, far better for the GAA. Plus it would help the tournament as a whole as there would no longer be one single team uniquely unfairly advantaged. Without a split, we'll see a decline in interest, participation, attendances etc. as we have already seen in Leinster.

Hurling does need to be split too- we're more concerned about competing off an unfair platform, rather than just who wins or loses every year. None of us have any problem with success, periods of dominance etc. as long as they come fairly. This hasn't been the case for Dublin though unfortunately.

Billy_the_Kid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992761#Comment_121992761

Now it was a big upset but tough to see Mayo get past the likes of Antrim who will surely walk the Ulster championship with their huge population advantage. There wont be a pallet burned for a week in Ballymena in celebration of Antrims inevitable Ulster success based on their huge population (all of whom like Dublin & New York definitely take part in Gaelic games) .

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993251#Comment_121993251

I wouldn't worry there- Antrim don't have the insane combination of advantages in population, funding and home pitch advantages over Mayo as Dublin do over everyone else, so they'll be competing on a level playing field at least.

Billy_the_Kid

Right thats just New York

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121994391#Comment_121994391

I'm glad you accept that point. It doesn't apply to New York either. Even on population, for the reasons that have previously been outline.

Dublin alone has the unique combination, nature, scale and duration of advantages.advantages in population, funding and playing at home. That's why people tend to focus on them, it's not out of animosity. It's also why Dublin alone should be split.

Billy_the_Kid

So with New York and London shocking early exits its clear Galway will win Connacht in football and no doubt Antrim , Cork and Dublin will win both the football & hurling in the other provinces with their massive population advantages.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121994669#Comment_121994669

Again, Dublin are the only county uniquely unfairly advantaged. Not just in population but funding, playing at home etc as well. Their unique set of circumstances doesn't apply to Antrim, Cork or Galway, or indeed any other county. That's what Dublin alone should be split.

Also, even in Dublin's case, the unfair advantages don't guarantee success- they just make it far more likely than if they were competing on a level playing field, and enable Dublin to win more games than they otherwise would, but they don't ensure it 100%. For instance, Dublin lost to Meath in 2010 (their last loss in the once great Leinster Championship) despite their unfair advantages.

Billy_the_Kid

Really unfair Kerry have to play football in a province with Cork and Limerick. No chance they can compete against those bigger populations. Hand the trophy to Cork.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992948#Comment_121992948

I agree, those Kerry divisional sides would be stronger than some counties. They also have agreed home stadiums. Let them loose on the Munster Championship and maybe a county other than Kerry would benefit.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121994669#Comment_121994669

Again we have diversion with ridiculous comparisons. How about we use the number of Irish passport holders in each as a basis for comparison? That gives some accommodation for immigrants etc in Dublin so that it only has one million to pick from.

Dickie10

would a more fair way to experiment be the introduction of a Dublin B team in Leiinster championship and League. such as O`Byrne Cup team that represents Dublin?

Billy_the_Kid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121995090#Comment_121995090

Same for Antrim?