The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

Billy_the_Kid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001083#Comment_122001083

Liberty Saint's Rugby Club, Kevins hurling club, Sporting Liberties and countless others in the area are not all wrong on this. Its freely available to look up. Invisible force field preventing kids going from the Liberties to phoenix park? no just hundreds of junkies, countless main roads to cross, homeless drinkers, flashers and general scumbags. God forbid they have a grass pitch in an area where thousands of kids live. You may have had to travel 10 miles to your local GAA club in the country which is a decent distance but its hardly credible that your kids did not have a closer grass area to play football/hurling on.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001083#Comment_122001083

A very middle-class attitude, let them drive (eat cake). Most of the working class in Dublin 8 don't drive.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121995224#Comment_121995224

Drop the passive aggressiveness around this issue. You may consider my point a joke, but given the level of success of Kerry in Munster for nearly 150 years, it is not a joke to the other counties there, and it is less of a joke to the neutral than your ideas of what to do with Dublin.

The Kerry divisions already exist, nothing wrong with putting them forward as alternative counties. They had to ban them from club championships because they were unfairly dominating so they are more than a club.

MayoAreMagic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121998489#Comment_121998489

In fairness, it is a fairly nonsensical example when you drill down into it. It is just a postal district. A far more pertinent question is how far from a gaa pitch/facilities is any one person in Dublin 8? - I bet it is a far shorter distance than the majority of people on the rest of the island.

The fact these these kinds of fake news-esque points are wheeled out so often tells you all you need to know about the side against Dublin being split. Someone else mentioned splitting Kerry into divisional sides, seemingly, just because they have them. It doesn't make any sense to anyone, including the people saying it, if we are honest about it. They just come across a bit disingenuous. There is no issue with admitting that objectively speaking, Dublin should very probably be split into 2 county teams and that within a couple of years they would probably both have been in a final - maybe even together. It isnt as if some randomer admitting it online is going to result in the thing actually happening ffs.

MayoAreMagic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121997687#Comment_121997687

Agreed on games development monies, sponsorship money, taxpayers money - surely the rest of the country should be expecting a better return on their investment!
On that topic, another trope that gets thrown out so often is that Dublin simply have a great generation of players at present ( a generation spanning 13 years with an average age that is actually reducing apparently - go figure), but this ignores the fact that this 'generation' of players are in fact the guys who have come out the other end of the games development investment. These are not once in a generation players but rather the living and breathing evidence of the success of the system put in place at a huge expense. Has nobody ever stopped to notice how un-Dublin-esque a player Con O'Callaghan is? Or Kilkenny? Or Murchan? Jonny Cooper, John Small etc. etc. These guys are the living breathing results of the investment in coaching rather than the freakish once off that so many peddle them to be. Dublin players were traditionally like Mayo players - they would do something great then make a slight mistake or try something they shouldn't etc. Maybe be slightly too reliant on one foot etc. It has been coached out of them and the results are what we see today.

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002331#Comment_122002331

Eh ?? Where did you pull that from. D 8 is not some third world country. Of course people drive. I've lived in D8 for almost 20 years. It's not full of junkies, scumbags and flashers as some other poster declared (assuming he is not saying that tongue in cheek). It is as respectable as any other part of Dublin.

Assuming that you have some basis for saying that most of the working class don't drive (😂😂), surely there are other ways to get around - walk, cycle, public transport etc. Which is obviously not a luxury in more rural areas.

munster87

2028 AI final, Dublin vs Feale Rangers

munster87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003332#Comment_122003332

It appears you have an apt username for a 20 year veteran of the area…apparently

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002337#Comment_122002337

This is brilliant stuff, this Dublin wit! Yourself and Billy_the_kid should do a comic duo, deliberately misunderstanding things will have comedy-goers falling around with laughter I'm sure.

As always, the issue is not success, but rather whether teams are unfairly advantaged. As Dublin are the only team unfairly advantaged (population, funding, home pitch advantage, possibly facilities too as we've discovered in our discussion with Billy_the_kid), they're the only team who should be split.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003328#Comment_122003328

Yes, there can be absolutely no doubt by now that the games development funding has helped massively for Dublin in their recent success. Both in the way you have mentioned but also reducing the opportunity cost from other spending and also just generally enhancing the game within the county, raising standards for all players.

The sad thing is that this would be a very positive thing, if it wasn't Dublin alone. The GAA made the decision to favour the already most advantaged county in the country over everyone else. Before this level of exclusive funding I was only in favour of a two-way split of Dublin. Now, sadly, a 4+ split is required to remedy the unfairness in Gaelic games.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001961#Comment_122001961

This has been dealt with by other posters. You're exaggerating the lack of, and distance from, facilities in order to pretend that Dublin are not uniquely unfairly advantaged, and you've been found out, badly.

There is access to better facilities across Dublin than in every county. And let's not forget the greatest facility of all that the GAA built- Dublin's de facto home stadium of Croke Park where Dublin play at home for all their finals and semi-finals.

Billy_the_Kid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004298#Comment_122004298

Found out ?- it has been verified by TDs , Dublin City Council and every sporting body in the area and can be easily confirmed by a simple google search. To claim that kids in Dublin city have better access to facilities than every other county shows what a complete and utter spoofer you are.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121995230#Comment_121995230

Not true of handball, far bigger playing population outside of Ireland than in Ireland.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004298#Comment_122004298

Actually this annoys me and I'll tell you why.

North Inner City Dublin is the poorest area in the entire country, and has been for decades if not centuries.

We keep hearing about how the GAA is this great community driven organisation (which it is) - but in the very poorest part of the entire country there is no GAA facility.

Correction, there is no GAA facility that local people can use.

How exactly is Croke Park a facility to Dublin GAA - its not in any way. Local clubs have Zero access to Croke Park. And ironically in the local parish where Croke Park exists - there is no GAA club. Kids who live near Croke Park play soccer for Belvedere FC or Sherrif FC, or they box for Corinthians or Saviours. There is no GAA (scoil ui chonaill being nominally on NCR but actually out in Clontarf). Meanwhile you have this magnificent pitch sitting there empty for 300 days of the year.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003332#Comment_122003332

https://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/newsevents/documents/census2016summaryresultspart2/Chapter_8_Travel_patterns_and_car_ownership.pdf

Just the CSO

"In 2016, 76.6 per cent of households in urban areas
owned at least one car compared with 91.0 per cent of
households in rural areas, a pattern largely caused by
the low car ownership in the cities. For example, 33.7 per
cent of households in the administrative area Dublin City
stated that they did not have a car in 2016."

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23776902-car-ownership-in-dublin-central

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004283#Comment_122004283

Unfairly advantaged by being in a small hurling-dominated province which has resulted in overwhelming levels of success over the centuries. Time to put an end to it, I say.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992634#Comment_121992634

The confusion is because you keep backtracking and changing your angle as each previous angle gets shown up for the nonsense that it is.

We've been talking about a hypothetical situation, where Dublin GAA were disbanded in 2003. I asked you how much more likely Leitrim would have been to get out of Connaught in the 20 years since then. You are adamant that they would have, you said "they'd have gone further in the competition at least some of the time, if Dublin had been split. They'd have won more matches". When asked to back this up, you failed. You refused to say which matches and gave some vague nonsense about the overall fairness and integrity of the competition. This is patently absurd.

The bottom line is a weak/strong/split/non-existent Dublin would have had no bearing on Leitrim's fortunes over the past 20 years BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T PLAY AGAINST DUBLIN DURING THIS TIME. So, everything else being equal, they would have fared the same as they did in real life….i.e. failed to get out of the province every single year.

You are making a claim and have nothing to back it up other than "the improved fairness and integrity blah blah blah", which is complete bollocks. A fairer competition doesn't mean Leitrim are suddenly beating Mayo. Or Galway. They simply aren't gonna turn into a better team because Dublin are no longer playing in another province, because the relative strength of Dublin has no bearing on Leitrim's games. None. Literally zero. Anyone with two eayes can see this, even you, but you won't admit that because it scuppers your entire argument.

I would never misrepresent you

cool, lets see how long that lasts……

So you went crazy

…..literally the start of the next sentence. I never went crazy about anything. You are attempting to weaken my argument by painting me as a madman, when I never did what you're claiming I did….i.e. misrepresenting me. QED.

You said ""Soccer, eh? Cool. Now do inter-county GAA teams… See what I mean about cherry-picking?". You thought it was okay for you to use comparisons with soccer but not me- and, yes, that is hypocritical based on your own words. There is no reason, we can't compare for stadiums but not other parts of the sport- you're trying to backtrack now but you've been caught out.

More misrepresentation. I never said it wasn't okay for anyone to use anything, you're again trying to paint yourself the victim here. You spoke about the new Dublin divisional side sharing grounds. It was pointed out to you that this is a ridiculous situation, and a completely new arrangement. You claimed it happens all the time, and, when pressed, pointed to fcukin AC Milan and Inter. That's why I said "soccer…eh?". Because you'd claimed groundsharing for intercounty teams happened all the time, but then gave a soccer example.

You also claimed, seeing as we're on the soccer angle still, that a weaker France would have meant Ireland made a better fist of it in the Euros. I pointed out that Ireland were already eliminated from the competition before France had played their second match but, as usual, you didn't have an answer for that and you dropped it like a hot snot. Not even you can defend that stance.

I am not trolling, you just were repeating my words with nothing to back them up. 

I provided the exact same back up as you did, using the exact same words and with the exact same supporting material….aka sweet fcuk all. Gladly, you've now admitted that you have nothing to back up your "integrity and fairness" bollocksology.

So now I've answered your post again, please explain how you propose dealing with Dublin's advantages in population, funding and playing at home?

Splitting Dublin would harm the fairness, integrity and prestige of the competition, and would therefore be harmful to the competition as a whole. I propose doing nothing, bar maybe abolishing the provincials and going to an open draw in the All-Ireland. That would end Kerry's meal-ticket into the knock out stages of the competition though, so you wouldn't want to see that, I'm sure.

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005226#Comment_122005226

You said most of the working class in Dublin 8 don't drive. That extract you took from an out of date document shows that almost 4 out of 5 households in Dublin have a car. And, if I understand it correctly, it advises that a third of households in administrative Dublin don't have a car. On that basis, two-thirds of households do have a car. Therefore is a child in a household wishes to play GAA, the majority of households have the means of a car to drive them to and from training and matches.

So what exactly is "administrative Dublin". Is it specifically Dublin 8? I don't see any reference to Dublin 8 in the 8-year-old document.

Of course, all of this is overridden by the fact that in the city, a car is not needed to bring anyone teenage years and older to GAA training and matches. They can walk, cycle, get public transport etc.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004496#Comment_122004496

You've been found out in the sense you gave a misleading statistic about a particular part of Dublin which other posters have proven still leaves people in that region with better access to facilities vs people around the rest of the country. You tried to convey the impression that people in Dublin 8 are worse off compared to people elsewhere.

Also, Dublin is not just Dublin 8. Dublin as a whole has far, far better facilities across the county than any other county. Plus they are easier to access. So you've been badly found out in your claims here.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004540#Comment_122004540

I don't think that's true. Are you confusing Olympic handball with Irish handball maybe?

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004553#Comment_122004553

This has been dealt with by other posters in responses to Billy_the_kid, where he was badly found out: access to facilities in Dublin, even the poorer parts is far better than across the country. And then if we take Dublin as a whole, the superior access within Dublin becomes even more obvious. Just because within a particular region like Dublin 8 there may be fewer pitches, doesn't change the fact that the facilities as a whole are much better.

Croke Park is a Dublin facility in the sense they play their home games there, even in the NFL. The GAA paid for this. So if we're factoring in facilities spending by the GAA across counties, we have to include Croke Park for Dublin to be fair and accurate- so once again we see Dublin being uniquely unfairly advantaged by the GAA.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005233#Comment_122005233

Another hilarious post, keep it up! We can't get enough of this Dublin wit!

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006277#Comment_122006277

I've explained countless times how Leitrim are helped if Dublin are split. I'll do it again now though to help you learn the truth about the GAA.

Dublin are uniquely unfairly advantaged vs every other county in the GAA. These advantages include, but are not limited to, the unique combination, scale, nature and duration of their advantages in population, funding (by the GAA, Irish government and their sponsors), home pitch advantages, and more. While they don't win every single game, there can be no doubt that these advantages have played a large role in their recent successes. This is why neutrals like myself want to split Dublin- by dispersing the advantages among several teams, rather than concentrating them in one, we reduce the impact of these unfair advantages. This enhances the prestige, integrity and fairness of the competition.

This enhanced prestige, integrity and fairness is instrinsically good for the competition as a whole- it's far better for any competition to be fair than unfair for instance. So any team who participates benefits from this in a general sense. I can't recall if you contested this point but this is generally accepted by all but the most partisan of Dublin fans so I assume you accept it too if you want the GAA to be helped.

It also helps Leitrim specifically as the enhanced prestige, integrity and fairness will increase interest and participation within the county (as players, coaches, supporters etc. now know they are no longer competing in an unfair competition). This will increase their chances of success both within Connaught and beyond; it'll be marginal to begin with but will become more apparent as the years progress. Just like the inverse- Dublin's unfair advantages were small initially but become more and more apparent as the years went on. Even though Dublin don't compete in Connaught, as Connaught feeds into the All-Ireland, the benefits of splitting Dublin are felt there too. Larger benefits will be felt in the qualifiers, group stages, semi-finals etc. It's fair to say that splitting Dublin is one of the few reforms the GAA can make to help every single county.

One thing about the 2003 hypothetical is I don't want Dublin to just be abolished, I want them to be split. I have no animosity towards Dublin and definitely want players from within Dublin to keep challenging for Sam Maguire, just fairly, unlike at present. The France/Ireland 2012 group stage hypothesis also applies if France are unfairly advantaged like Dublin are, for much the same reasons as above. But it is likely that Dublin's unfair advantages are probably unique in sport.

You did go crazy and dismiss the shared stadiums idea. As a reminder, you furiously said ""Soccer, eh? Cool. Now do inter-county GAA teams… See what I mean about cherry-picking?" when I'd proven how shared stadiums were workable in sports. Like Billy_the_kid, you were badly caught out and shown to be hypocritical as you'd previously said soccer comparisons were not relevant. And now you are trying to backtrack. There is no reason stadium sharing would not be relevant but not other parts of the sport. I think you should just concede you were wrong here, your excuses for your crazy dismissal are a bit undignified. As I said, we all make mistakes, I've made many myself (although not about Dublin's unfair advantages and the need to split them to help the GAA in all counties).

I've said numerous times I'm in favour of getting rid of the provincials. The provincials to semi-final only route hasn't existed since 2000, bar the covid years so your info is a little out of date. But Dublin's unfair advantages have persisted year in, year out, right up to present day and have in many ways become even more pronounced over the years. That's why splitting Dublin should be the top priority for the GAA.

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121639478#Comment_121639478

I hope we lose my 20 point's this weekend. Any less I'll be disappointed. COYBIB.

I was offered tickets for this match and proudly refused. Not even worth the time never mind money. The one biggest rivalry in the GAA ruined.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009457#Comment_122009457

This is completely bizarre nonsense. No other way to describe it.

Leitrim's ambitions probably stretch to reaching Division 2 oneday and maybe winning another Connacht title. What Dublin do or don't do has no effect on Leitrim.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009687#Comment_122009687

Where's that sense of humour gone? No, it's just a summary of how Dublin's unfair advantages are harming Gaelic games and how splitting them, while far from ideal and a conclusion I was reluctant to arrive at, helps Leitrim and indeed all counties.

One thing is for sure though; not splitting Dublin will be catastrophic for the GAA. We're already seeing some terrible consequences (e.g., the decline of the once-great Leinster Championship).

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009457#Comment_122009457

You haven't explained anything once. All you've done is give your opinion………..i.e. spout a load of subjective rubbish that has zero basis in reality, is completely unquantifiable and is submitted without evidence, which means it can be dismissed without evidence.

Your first three paragraphs are a steaming pile of shite, to be honest. Wishy-washy nonsense, splitting Dublin or abolishing them altogether would have had zero impact on Leitrim, because Leitrim never played Dublin in that period. Why won't you admit this? Oh right, because the whole raison d'etre for your crusade of splitting Dublin is to help the smaller teams, when, in reality, it won't help them at all.

You can keep copying and pasting it all you want, and you can keep saying "i've explained this in depth countless times" all you want, that doesn't make it true.

It also helps Leitrim specifically as the enhanced prestige, integrity and fairness will increase interest and participation within the county (as players, coaches, supporters etc. now know they are no longer competing in an unfair competition). This will increase their chances of success both within Connaught and beyond; it'll be marginal to begin with but will become more apparent as the years progress.

Let's pretend this is true for a second. By your logic, this would also help Leitrim's opponents in the exact same way and for the exact same reasons, correct? So, are these teams helped MORE than Leitrim or LESS? And why do you think this, what reasoning are you using to back up this opinion?

I have no animosity towards Dublin

[Citation needed]

and definitely want players from within Dublin to keep challenging for Sam Maguire, just fairly, unlike at present.

Translation: Kerry have only beaten Dublin once in the last 15 years and I want to go back to the good old days, the Dubs must be cheating, there's no way they can be better than our own local lads, shure everyone knows we're the best.

The France/Ireland 2012 group stage hypothesis also applies if France are unfairly advantaged like Dublin are, for much the same reasons as above. But it is likely that Dublin's unfair advantages are probably unique in sport.

You've dodged the question again. In what way would Ireland have played better if France had been disqualified from the tournament, given the fact that Ireland were already knocked out before France played their second match, after drawing their first one?

Would we have conceded fewer goals? Scored more? Would our opponents somehow have played worse or would we have been improved? How? Why?

The correct answer is it wouldn't have had an effect. You know it, I know it, the Dog on the street knows it. The matches played by a team in a certain group/pool is completely 100% unaffected by the matches or teams in a different group/pool. This is 100% undeniable fact. You are denying it, though, because to do otherwise means you're undermining your entire argument.

It's actually pitiful watching you refuse to acknowledge this at this stage. You're a laughing stock.

You did go crazy and dismiss the shared stadiums idea. As a reminder, you furiously said ""Soccer, eh? Cool. Now do inter-county GAA teams… See what I mean about cherry-picking?" when I'd proven how shared stadiums were workable in sports.

In what world does that qualify as going crazy? You're making assrtions again with nothing to back them up.

Also, You didn't prove how shared stadia works in the GAA because no other inter-county teams share the same ground, which is what you had originally claimed.

And now you are trying to backtrack.

And now you're trying to use my own arguments against me, but, alas, like everything else you've put forward so far, it is not backed up by anything.

There is no reason stadium sharing would not be relevant but not other parts of the sport.

This is a clusterfcuk of a sentence, grammatically, like a double-negative wet dream, but anyway…….I never claimed that other comparison with other sports is not relevant, you're making that up and using it as a stick with which to beat my argument down, because you have nothing of substance otherwise.

I think you should just concede you were wrong here, your excuses for your crazy dismissal are a bit undignified. As I said, we all make mistakes, I've made many myself.

I never went crazy and never made a mistake. You are pretending I did because your argument is in the toilet, so you're trying to claim the high ground. This is not working.

You'll have to do better, I'm afraid. Your trolling is getting too obvious now, once we dig below the surface. But that's hwat happens when your opinion is a pile of shite that has nothing to back it up. Hey ho.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122010185#Comment_122010185

One thing is for sure though; splitting Dublin will be catastrophic for the All-Ireland SFC, the Leinster SFC, the GAA, and, most especially, Dublin GAA. Any team winning a competition where the best team aren't allowed to compete because of petty begrudgery from their once-biggest rivals will have an asterisk hanging over their heads forever. This is horrendous for the integrity, fairness and prestige of any such competition and will, overall, lead to far worse consequences than a few lads deciding not to declare for Leitrim.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009381#Comment_122009381

Could you define what you mean by 'access to facilities'.

Regarding your point on Croke Park - its a moot point really. There are maybe 20,000 active gaa players in Dublin. Just because 0.001% of those players, albeit the most elite ones, get to play a handful of games there each year under the mantle of 'home games' in the league, you are saying therefore its a Dublin facility. If its a Dublin facility, why is the all ireland play there - according to you its a dublin facility so move the all ireland series elsewhere…. no one will win this argument, and personally I kind of think its a red herring, but you think different….

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009519#Comment_122009519

Thanks for sharing , up the Royal.