The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*
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Only in your head your head paddy your a "real pub talk" man. Student's are professional now are they. No Kildare or Meath person goes to college do they??? You are really running down those counties.
You must not go to Maynooth Univeristy very often
That is the problem with Kildare and Meath masses it is talk no action. Similar mindsets no real plan, no real structure, no real tactical nous, no development of youngsters. Just moaning from fans. It is impossible to debate with that level of stupidity.
This thread should be renamed "The notions and dreams of Meath and Kildare". The fans seem to have expectations above their stature. Clearly both counties are not being run correctly.
Kildare's only period of success after 1928. About 70 years was as result of blow in's and "blow in" top class manager. What was he paid under the counter we don't know and can only speculate. Think of it, 70 years!
Meath's only relatively recent success after a period of 20 years of doing nothing of note from the late 1960's to the late 1980's was because a home grown class manager. An innovator. Meath have done no innovation since. And have done nothing for the guts of another 20 years not counting the stolen 2010 Leinster Final. Now Meath have had a similar gap. That is not unknown to Meath historically.
Kildare should get Pat Gilroy in and Meath should get Jim Gavin in. Both counties are badly in need of structure and Gaelic Football expertise. Kildare and Meath need men in the know. And all the help they can get. If both counties are not willing to amalgamate this could be solution. At the very least perhaps Jim Gavin could shadow Colm O'Rourke to make sure he is following Dublin's style correctly. And they should improve defensively and tactically as result.
Money won't help counties that are not run correctly. In Africa the missionaries not only build wells for the less fortunate they teach them how to build their own. Meath and Kildare are now Africa's suffering severe famines calling for help. Dublin should heed that call. Jim Gavin and Pat Gilroy should be asked to save both counties since they are not capable of it themselves.
Otherwise Meath should just focus on the likes of the Tailteann Cup every few years that is their "All Ireland".
I am sure there was some great celebrations when Meath won the O'Byrne Cup in 2016 after 10 years. And an unprecedented one close after in 2018.
Kildare had great day's winning back to back O'Byrne Cup's in 2013 and 2014.
That is those teams level. And success is all relative. I am sure they were proud days for those involved.
When Meath got promoted to division 1 in 2020 after a 14 year wait. that was achievement that was progress. That is the sort of level Meath GAA is at.
Meath can also focus maybe the women's football, where the base of players and standard is much lower, not as punishing.
Kildare are consistently great at the racing.
(Niall Slipper's Madden)
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Maybe both counties should stick to what they are good at, if they don't get the two Dublin greats into babysit them.
"Stay in your lane" and lower your expectations a bit. Because historically that is how Kildare and Meath football go decades of noting of note. Unless exceptional management take over. And currently Kildare and Meath have none of that calibre. As simple as that.
Those counties should not be looking enviously at Dublin's achievement and hard work but trying to emulate Dublin in being the best that they can be. That is Colm O'Rourke's mindset. He knows that all success is relative.
Post edited by gormdubhgorm onGuff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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I have already explained the funding issue Dublin have had economies of scale that other counties do not have to suffer or understand. The cost of living in Dublin, the extremely strong competition from other sports, the population size, the cost of land, the cost of buildings, the vast GAA wastelands in Dublin that need development.
From the article above -
"The challenges facing the GAA in big cities and towns are completely at odds with the challenges the association encounters in rural areas. Stripped right back, the basic problems are: urban clubs have a growing playing membership but not enough playing space, while rural clubs have a dwindling playing membership but plenty of playing pitches."
From the article above -
“Dublin GAA continues to grapple with the critical issue of the lack of availability of land for the provision of suitable facilities for the playing of our games at all levels and standards for both male and female players,” he stated.
“Basically, there is very little available land and if suitable land comes on the market, the price is usually prohibitive. The constant – and even rising housing demand – means that this situation is likely to continue and possibly worsen."
https://1ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fsport%2Fgaelic-games%2F2023%2F01%2F19%2Fall-challenges-are-different-for-gaa-clubs-in-na-fianna-we-crave-space%2F
(article with paywall removed)
From the aritcle -
"The funny thing is, if you were to draw a red line around the catchment areas for Sean McDermotts in Monaghan and Na Fianna in Dublin, you’d probably capture more or less the same square acreage of Irish soil. The Seans are serviced by the villages of Threemilehouse and Corcaghan and the five kilometres or so of hairy drumlins that lie between them. Na Fianna’s hinterland is most of what sits between Phibsboro and Collins Avenue, a broadly similar distance."
"But in population terms, you’re talking about less than 1,000 people in rural Monaghan compared to anything between 80,000 to 100,000 in Dublin 9 and 11. Two vastly different communities and yet both have one GAA club to serve them. For rural clubs, sympathy towards the challenges faced by Dublin super-clubs will be naturally in short supply. But first-world problems don’t go away just because you call them that"
"In Na Fianna, we crave space. We have two caged astro pitches to keep things going through the winter. Starting back next week, they’ll be full every night with various age groups crammed in, elbow to elbow. It’s not ideal, it’s just what’s possible."
"A major problem is keeping everyone connected. Na Fianna have just short of 4,000 members. We have about 1,000 kids playing every week and close to 400 adult players. Each age group is basically its own republic – it’s difficult for our 2015 girls to feel that they’re part of the same organism as, say, the 2011 boys or the U-16 camogie teams. Everybody knowing everybody’s name is something that comes for free in a club like the Seans. In all truth, it’s not really possible at Na Fianna"
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Per capita 60 full time GAA coaches is noting of note for Dublin given the size of the population. In fact Dublin need more clubs there is only 134 clubs in Dublin in comparison to Cork who have 259.
From the article above -
"The GAA in Dublin isn't thriving in the way the national media would lead you to believe. It has huge problems. Large areas of the city have no GAA at all.
"Finglas, with a bigger population than Leitrim, has only one GAA club, Erins Isle. Clondalkin, with a population of nearly 50,000 also has only one club, Round Towers, Jim Gavin's club. Neither club has competed at the top level of Dublin GAA for many years."
"In working class areas of Dublin, the GAA is seriously under threat, and the powers that be appear to be silent on this and are prepared to concede these heavily populated areas to soccer. Over the years, both Gaelic Games and soccer have done a decent job in deprived areas of Dublin. To lose an established body like the GAA will lead to serious social consequences for those same areas down the road."
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Having a full time CEO does not make Dublin "professional" it makes Dublin more secure in it's administration of amateur players. Also a marketing department in Dublin makes sense, it brings more revenue into Dublin GAA which is about a fifth of the size of the population of the country. That revenue goes back into Dublin GAA grassroots and the GAA itself.
Due to the success of Dublin's marketing and nous the GAA have saw fit to cut Dublin's funding by 450,000 euros in 2022. That is a large amount of money Dublin GAA have indirectly saved the GAA by virtue of their approach to marketing and administration - which have yielded success.
It is no accident that more and more country players have started to play their club football in Dublin. Those players are availing of Dublin facitilies and expertise. Most recently Shane Walsh (Kilmacud/Galway), Hennelly (Raheny/Mayo) and soon to be Damien Comer (Kilmacud/Galway).
Should Dublin GAA turn those players away? Depriving them of a chance to play top class club football while living or working in Dublin?
Should the GAA destroy Dublin? Dublin are the reason football has evolved and improved to where it is today. Dublin GAA brings in by far the most revenue to the GAA.
Many counties are drains on the resources of the GAA but Dublin are by far the biggest contributor to the GAA finances and grassroots. The money Dublin earn Dublin put back into the GAA. 5m income and 4m spent in 2021 for example.
Multiply those figures year and year out say 1.5m by 10 or 15 years. And it is really Dublin GAA that is keeping a large section of the GAA as whole afloat.
And that is before we even get into the amount of revenue Dublin bring the GAA through attendances. Besides Mayo who have a fanatical support. Without Dublin the GAA would be in serious financial trouble over the years.
Post edited by gormdubhgorm onGuff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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You are of course correct that particular poster @gaffer91 has a certain pattern of posting. And modus operandi
Claims to want "fairness" -
Contradiction 1)
Wanting a mandatory spilt of Dublin ONLY, and a "voluntary" amalgamation of other counties.
When asked to explain this contradiction why is one voluntary and one mandatory?
The poster then says says Dublin have caused irreparable damage to the GAA and cites the ruining of the "prestige" of Leinster. The poster them went silent when questioned on how Dublin have helped Gaelic Football evolve to the current level at the top tier of the game. The poster in question then repeats themselves two or three times without addressing the point raised.
"Provincial championships" conflicting statements
Contradiction 2)
However, this then leads on to the next illogical argument made by that poster, @gaffer91. As the poster has repeatedly assured the thread that they believe that the provincial championships structure should be revamped.
But if the poster really believes this why is the poster worried about the "prestige" of Leinster? Surely given the poor level of standard of the province it will only hasten a revamped provincial system. The poster has yet to answer this dichotomy.
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Look at the poster @gaffer91 previous posts they have just under 1000 listed (post site relaunch at the time of writing) if we look at what posts that poster was involved with "discussions" on we get a very clear picture of the posters agenda - 2015 twice, 2019 once and 2020 once. All one after another on the posters profile page. All created by the same poster and all being Dublin "off field" related.
Now we can only speculate why this particular poster has such an obsession with Dublin GAA. Particularly Dublin off the field matters. It is noticeable that I have never once seen this particular poster in the main Dublin GAA thread in all my years of posting there. Again you have to question why is that? Why do we not see @gaffer91 with many varied discussions on various GAA threads. Why is there a singular clear pattern?
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When asked to clarify posts and is pinned down to try and explain the "logic" on this current "Dublin Domination" thread we get the following from @gaffer91
Repetitive and/or vague obfuscation - repeating the same posts, going vague saying they were addressed in other posts. Assuring the thread that they "have nothing against Dublin"
Then when that does not work and they do not want to reply to a logical point made, @gaffer91 resort to the final step - Outlandish Non Sequitur statements.
Such as - "Splitting Dublin will help Leitrim" "How can you not see that??" etc
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However, in this case that ridiculous non sequitur actually again contradicts @gaffer91.
As the posters previously confused premise that "Dublin have caused irreparable damage to the GAA" can be disproven by the simple case study of Leitrim.
Why? The answer is simple.
Leitrim's most successful year in the history of Gaelic games came in 1994 when they won the Connacht Title. Why is that relevant to Dublin? Well the GAA had a special "parentage rule since the 90's. Where Dublin born and bred players but with Leitrim parentage could play for Leitrim, for example.
From the article above written in 2011-
"The GAA approved the adoption of the parentage rule in the early 90’s at national level with several weaker counties profiting as a result. Dublin-born duo Declan Darcy and Jason Ward both proved major assets to Leitrim in the Connacht championship while more recently former Dublin underage star John Coughlan played at midfield for Offaly."
Declan Darcy is now a living legend for fans of his parent's county.
The development of Declan Darcy to that high level would not have been possible only for the fact he was coached in the Dublin GAA system.
Meanwhile…… in the 1960's a man called Colm O'Rourke born in Aughavas Leitrim 1957, moved to Skyrne County Meath. He became and integral part of a very successful Meath side. O'Rourke never once played for the county of his birth….
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So you have to wonder who cares about the weaker counties? Who cares about Leitrim?
Ask the Dub Declan Darcy, who no doubt is forever grateful of Dublin GAA's benevolence in allowing him to play for Leitrim.
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Other counties benefiting from Dublin produced players still goes on today in many weaker counties - look at this list from 2019.
It really shows up the falsehood from gaffer91 that Dublin GAA have caused "irreparable damage" to the GAA. Not only have Dublin being integral to the evolution of tactics in Gaelic Games. Dublin are also key to producing players for weaker counties as well. That is the reality of part Dublin GAA plays in Gaelic Football.
The evolution of Stephen Cluxton 2001 -2016 and the goalkeeper role in Gaelic Football.
Dublin's tactical nous a man down v Kerry 2019 AI Final Game 1 (Cluxton used as the 14th outfield man for Dublin)
Post edited by gormdubhgorm onGuff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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I have the poster @gaffer91 on ignore now as it is clear there is no sincerity what so ever in that particular poster. I would also question whether the poster has any real interest in the GAA at all. As the posters sole focus seems to be Dublin and Dublin off the field issues. The fact profiles can no longer be hidden does have it's advantages.
The poster does not even want Dublin to get a new stadium if spilt. There is no talk of the logistics of a Dublin spilt who will fund it? The GAA? The poster not only wants Dublin spilt but spilt into divisions. What would this mean for Dublin hurling? Real hurling people nationally have for years being hoping for a consistent strong Dublin hurling team. How would a Dublin GAA split affect Dublin hurling administratively? Currently Dublin GAA run both football and hurling. However with any split it will mean a dilution of Human Resources. That is just a fact.
The poster falls to see how the amount of funding given to Dublin was and is necessary due to economies of scale and issues unique to Dublin.There is no talk of how a Dublin spilt would affect the GAA. What other county would bring in as much revenue for the GAA? Which directly and indirectly goes back into other counties. What other county would fulfil that void for the GAA?
That particular poster refuses to acknowledge (even once) the amount of development done by Dublin GAA for the GAA as a whole. The poster refuses to acknowledge how Dublin brings more funding and revenue back to the GAA than any other county. This is despite Dublin funding being cut by 450,000. Many other counties run deficits and are supplement by the GAA and indirectly by Dublin GAA. GAA HQ's biggest earner (both directly and indirectly). It also most populous area of the country. Crucial to the survival and betterment of Gaelic Football.
The truth is Dublin are a net contributor to the GAA directly and indirectly.. Many other counties are drains on GAA finances. They are net recipients rather than net contributors.
It is not lost on me that JP McManus giving every county in Ireland 1m for their clubs has meant that many get much more per capita than others due to the number of clubs and population etc. It will be very revealing in subsequent years to see which counties used the funding successfully for their clubs/infrastructure. Or which counties clubs wasted the finances received as there was not those capable enough within the clubs to benefit from it.
It will certainly weed out the well run clubs in counties, v the ones that are run on a wing and prayer.
As a whole as the DCC is very well run as other posters have pointed out. However, instead of saying "well run" they use the term "professional" which itself is untrue as we all know the players are amateurs. We had another poster pointing out the list of professions of the Dublin players from 2017 included students. And students are "professional" apparently! Playing fast and loose with the definition of the word. Completely ignoring the fact that counties all over Ireland have had and do have students playing for them at one time or another.
That is the level of debate on this thread. If you go back much earlier on this thread you will see how poor the knowledge posters had of Gaelic Football and Gaelic Games. Using Declan Darcy as a point to try and disparge Dublin football with. Calling him a Leitrim man. But not knowing anything of the GAA parentage rule.
The whole goal of many on this thread is to paint Dublin football as some form of bogeyman. To disparage achievements to fail to acknowledge the importance of Dublin GAA (in particular football and to a lesser extent hurling).
The whole objective of many on this thread is to call for the destruction of Dublin Football. With no talk of the consequences, no talk of a plan, or no talk as to how the GAA could replace such a void both practically and structurally. What would sponsors and marketeers make of a spilt. Would it discourage or encourage a sponsor to be drawn to a smaller unknown brand?
It is very noticeable that when possible amalgamations of other weaker counties are mentioned posters go quiet. Something which can be done far more practically than “spilts”, as stadiums or land could be sold off where required. Or stadiums could be used in rotation.
The new geographical areas could be a larger county at national level. With each county (as is) within that "constituent county" maintaining some autonomy. For trials of players and so on.
Imagine the excitement for a new Leinster North East team consisting of Meath, Kildare, Louth and Armagh would create for example. The trials from each county for the new LNE team could be televised as a series on TG4 each week bringing in even more revenue. Ultimately improving the infrastruture and standard within those counties. Louth are struggling to fund a new ground, while Kildare, Meath and Armagh are among the biggest underachievers in Gaelic Football with no real success for decades at senior level. Eventually a competitive team that could challenge teams such as Kerry, Dublin and Tyrone could be created. It could be easily done just for a national level amalgamation, keeping the counties as is for the provincials if they wish. It would strengthen the GAA nationally, not weaken it.
The truth is Kildare, Meath and Armagh do not look capable of having the rise that Derry has had in recent years going from Div 4 to winning Div 1, challenging for Sam, AND winning the all-ireland club championship.
The truth is the administrators, managers etc in Kildare, Meath and Armagh are just not as capable as Derry. Nor does it look like they will be in the foreseeable future. That is not a Dublin issue that is their own county's ineptitude over many decades. But yet it is much simpler narrative for some to create the Dublin bogeyman.
Post edited by gormdubhgorm onGuff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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