The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*
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As I've said before, the benefits from the improved prestige, integrity and fairness that would arise after Dublin have been split would be marginal to begin with but would become more pronounced as the years progress. Whereas splitting Dublin would result in less interest, less participation, less competitiveness, thereby harming all counties. Look at what has happened to the once-competitive Leinster Championship if you want to see the future. It's obvious there that not splitting Dublin, and allowing them to continue their dominance off their platform of unfair advantages, has caused immense harm and has made even the smaller counties like Longford, Louth etc. all less competitive. A split now would only have marginal benefits for them to begin with, but would become more apparent as the years progress- just like for Leitrim.
The benefits would be felt in different ways by different teams. So for most counties, as I've said, the enhanced prestige, integrity and fairness would result in more interest, participation and competitiveness. In Dublin's case, as the old unified county team would no longer exist, the enhanced prestige, integrity and fairness would be felt in players and supporters knowing they are now competing in a fair competition, being able to take legitimate pride in their successes (unlike currently), knowing they are not contributing to the decline of Gaelic games and many other things. Despite all their victories, there is one thing Dublin players have not felt recently- what winning an All-Ireland fairly feels like. This will no longer be the case after a split and would be the source of significant satisfaction for players, the likes of which they have never felt with Dublin, if a Dublin divisional side wins.
I answered your questions about which games Leitrim would hypothetically have won, why, how splitting Dublin helps the Connaught championship, etc. in my last post, so please read that for my response. You also blithely ignore the more obvious benefits from Leitrim playing a Dublin divisional side in the qualifiers. We can say one thing for absolute sure too- Leitrim don't benefit from Dublin not being split and continuing to play as a single entity. Not one little bit. So as a man who seemingly has a lot of concern for Leitrim, you should definitely be pushing for a split with me!
Now I've dealt with your questions comprehensively again, please outline how you propose dealing with Dublin's unfair population, funding and home pitch advantages.0 -
I answered this in my last post but you may not have seen it when you posted this to be fair. So here it is again for good measure:
As I've said before, the benefits from the improved prestige, integrity and fairness that would arise after Dublin have been split would be marginal to begin with but would become more pronounced as the years progress. Whereas splitting Dublin would result in less interest, less participation, less competitiveness, thereby harming all counties. Look at what has happened to the once-competitive Leinster Championship if you want to see the future. It's obvious there that not splitting Dublin, and allowing them to continue their dominance off their platform of unfair advantages, has caused immense harm and has made even the smaller counties like Longford, Louth etc. all less competitive. A split now would only have marginal benefits for them to begin with, but would become more apparent as the years progress- just like for Leitrim.
So in a game against Team A after a Dublin split, Leitrim will be more competitive now because of increased interest and participation. Whereas the reduced interest and participation will make them less competitive. There is also the intrinsic benefit of playing in a competition with increased prestige, integrity and fairness- nobody wants to compete in an unfair competition (well, maybe some Dublin fans do but that is another matter!).
If Dublin are split, and there is now 4 Dublin divisional sides, as Leitrim would have a better chance individually against any of those teams than they would against the current Dublin county side, they will be more competitive. So they'd benefit from having a better chance to win games and progress in the competition (and they're playing in a fairer competition which we've seen is an intrinsic good). And the increase in competitiveness would not just be because none of the Dublin divisional sides are not benefiting from the unfair advantages of the current Dublin team, but also because Leitrim themselves would be more competitive (like in Connaught). So I hate to say it but your assertion here is wrong unfortunately, 100% wrong.
You're ignoring why Dublin should be split 4+ ways. It's because of their unfair and unique advantages in population, funding and playing at home, the scale, nature, combination and duration of these advantages. It's not an ideal solution, and one I was reluctant to come around to, but sadly this is now the best option for the GAA to help all counties.0 -
I answered your questions about which games Leitrim would hypothetically have won, why, how splitting Dublin helps the Connaught championship, etc. in my last post, so please read that for my response.
I read it and, surprise surprise, you didn't…….this is you being intellectually dishonest, again. More fraud. You're claiming you answered a question comprehensively, when in reality, you gave a nonsense answer. You just said they would have won more, you didn't address which games, or why they would have performed better…….having a split Dublin in Leinster does fcuk all for the level of competition in Connaught.
You haven't responded to the point about how a team who didn't play Dublin would have fared better in a competition without Dublin. It's just nonsense. In soccer, would Ireland have gone further in Euro 2012 if France had been disqualified? No, because they weren't in our group and we didn't get out of the group so a good/bad/non-existent France HAD NO BEARING WHATSOEVER ON OUR TOURNAMENT. Same with Dublin and Leitrim for the past two decades.
So in a game against Team A after a Dublin split, Leitrim will be more competitive now because of increased interest and participation.
This is pure subjective speculation. You're literally making it up in your own head and presenting it as fact. You don't even know if there'd be more interest or participation. You're assuming there would have been and you're also assuming this would have made Leitrim better to the point that they would have won a game. This is a lot of assumptions.
You've also failed to address my point about how Leitrim's opponents would have been more competitive also, by your own reasoning. Therefore, they would not be more likely to win those matches, as their opponents would also be more competitive, again using your own logic. You're tying yourself up in knots trying to justify a contradictory position. The truth of the matter is that splitting Dublin would have done SFA for Leitrim during this period. Which goes against your entire reason for the split in the first place.
If Dublin are split, and there is now 4 Dublin divisional sides, as Leitrim would have a better chance individually against any of those teams than they would against the current Dublin county side, they will be more competitive.
More opinion being presented as fact. If Dublin were split, they'd have a better chance against any of the split sides than they would vs a full-strength side. This is true. But, that doesn't make them more competitive automatically. They had zero chance of meeting Dublin because they can't get out of Connaught. They would have still lost those games in Connaught, so they would have had zero chance of meeting one of the split sides. So their odds are still the same….i.e. zero.
They would also now have a 4 x higher chance of meeting one of the Dublin teams than they would of meeting, say, Louth or Offaly, who are better than Leitrim but worse than the Dublin sides. So a higher chance of meeting a team who could knock them out earlier, therefore less competitive.
Now I've dealt with your questions comprehensively again, please outline how you propose dealing with Dublin's unfair population, funding and home pitch advantages.
You haven't dealt with anything comprehensively, so I'll answer your questions in the same way you're answering mine: Having a full strength Dublin side improves the prestige, integrity and fairness of the competition and therefore increases the competitiveness of all teams in the All-Ireland. How's that for an answer? Bullshit, isn't it?
For the record, you've not mentioned or apologised for the fact that you were putting words in my mouth. You've ignored multiple points raised in my previous posts. You're regurgitating the same points again and again and calling them comprehensive answers, while simultaneously refusing to elaborate on those answers. This is the opposite of "comprehensive" and is exactly what I said you were doing in my post on Wednesday at 6.16pm.
And no mention of how having more teams who are better then them in the draw is actually worse for Leitrim. Again, you're ignoring the parts of the debate which are harmful to your argument and hoping they'll go away. This is you being a fraud again.
And no mention of how amalgamating smaller counties wouldn't achieve the same end-goal, as raised by gormdubhgorm.
Behaviour of a fraudster.
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I did answer it, quite comprehensively. I've addressed all of this countless times already. I've accepted I don't know which games they'd have won, or by how much, we can just comment in a general sense that they'd have been better off- just like we could only comment in a general sense that Dublin would have been worse off without Cluxton. The fact I am willing to recognise the limits of my knowledge should give you more confidence in my being correct: It shows I will never try to bullshit an answer. And I haven't done so.
I recall you going crazy before when I mentioned other sports as an example for how stadiums could successfully be shared before; so you're being a hypocrite again when you mention soccer. But as always, I'm happy to indulge you and provide a comprehensive response. In the case of the Euro 2012 tournament, it would depend on if France have insane advantages like for instance population, funding and hope pitch advantage for every game, had these advantages multiplied over decades as in Dublin's case. If the answers are yes on all counts, then yes, splitting France would have helped Ireland get out of their group, as there would be serious harm to the prestige, integrity and fairness from France's position which would by extension have reduced interest, participation and competitiveness of other teams, including Ireland.
I have addressed how it impacts Leitrim's competitiveness vs other counties but I will go into slightly more detail on this one. So I said how the benefits are different for Leitrim vs Dublin after a split- so while all teams benefit, the benefits may come in different forms e.g., finally winning fairly in Dublin's case vs finally winning more for Leitrim. But the benefits are also probably more for smaller teams- larger counties like Tyrone can still be somewhat competitive despite the grossly unfair status quo. Smaller counties like Leitrim have no hope and lose morale, reducing interest and participation. So while all non-Dublin counties benefit, smaller counties probably benefit even more- I want to help all counties, but I am happy if some of the benefits help the smaller, currently less competitive counties are helped more (same reason I want funding to be pooled and shared more equitably), I will concede that point. Also the benefits for non-Dublin counties can also differ- so while Leitrim will win more games, other counties may benefit from new rivalries- benefits to counties, but there are differences between the types of benefits.
Also you're misrepresenting my position- I want to split Dublin to help all counties, including, but not exclusively Leitrim- you're the one who keeps ranting on about them, you must be a Leitrim supporter deep down!
One thing you are missing is the All-Ireland is not just Provincials/Semi-finals/finals as before 2000- there are also qualifiers, group stages, QFs etc. So while we've already shown how Leitrim benefit from a split in Connaught, they also benefit in these other parts of the competition (e.g., playing a Dublin divisional side on a fair platform in a group game vs playing the current county team on an unfair platform). As I've said before, Leitrim have a far better chance of beating a Dublin divisional side, so even though there are more of them, their chances of winning more games, going further in the All-Ireland competition etc., go up, massively, so there is an additional benefit to them. So even though there are more divisional teams, Leitrim massively benefit from a split of Dublin here, again.
I do accept your answer is bullshit. I think the issue is you are focusing on the proposed measures to help the GAA and all counties. You haven't fully internalised and accepted that Dublin alone are unfairly advantaged in population, funding, playing at home- this is why I want them split, it is not out of animosity towards Dublin! It would be unfair of me to want say, Donegal, to be split because Donegal don't have the unique unfair advantages that Dublin do.
I didn't put any words in your mouth so I have nothing to apologise for. I am repeating myself but only because you ask the same questions over and over, no matter how many times I have comprehensively dealt with them! I am patient, and I want to help you out where I can, but I can only tell the truth- I can't concede a point or deny the truth just so you will stop asking. Integrity has to extend to all aspects of life, not just the All-Ireland.
I am in favour of voluntary amalgamations as I've said. But only after/in conjunction with a mandatory split of Dublin.0 -
@Yeah Right Just to give you a shorter answer for how benefits can differ between counties after a Dublin split, even though all counties ultimately benefit, as I think this is being lost in all the comprehensive detail I am providing in my answers to you. (These are just a small number of examples, this is a far from exhaustive list)
Dublin are split:
Benefits to Leitrim: Increased participation and interest as prestige, integrity and fairness of competition has improved. Improved competitivenes, likely to win more matches in coming years
Benefits to Kildare: Get to compete in a fairer Leinster competition. New, exciting but now fair rivalry develops between Kildare and West Dublin divisional side
Benefits to Dublin divisional sides: Now winning All-Irelands fairly, if they do win. Players finally able to take legitimate pride in their successes, unlike at presentGeneral benefits: More faith in the integrity of competition. More prestigious tournament as a result.
etc, etc.
So we see different benefits here, but the point is all counties are clearly helped.0 -
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I did answer it, quite comprehensively. I've addressed all of this countless times already. I've accepted I don't know which games they'd have won, or by how much, we can just comment in a general sense that they'd have been better off
"I don't know which games they would have won, or by how much, or how they would have won them, all I know is they would have won them"……..is not a comprehensive answer, no matter how many times you say it is. It sounds like you're scrambling, trying to cover for the fact that they wouldn't have won any extra games. Which, again, means your argument is invalid from the top down. The only reason you won't admit they wouldn't have fared any better without Dublin is because it destroys your entire starting point for the split. But you keep restating the opposite, even though you have no evidence or reasoning or logic to backup your point. Nothing. All you have is that the integrity and the fairness would be improved, therefore, everyone's chances would be better. This stance doesn't hold up to any scrutiny,. which is why I keep asking you about it. Hand-waving it away is not a comprehensive answer.
And no, you can't say in a general sense they'd have been better off, because you have refused AGAIN to speak about how their opponents would also have benefitted (in your words). If two teams benefit, then nobody benefits relative to each other. So again, more assertions that are just your own ramblings, masquerading as fact.
I recall you going crazy before when I mentioned other sports as an example for how stadiums could successfully be shared before
Not me. But this is another example of you putting words in my mouth.
In the case of the Euro 2012 tournament, it would depend on if France have insane advantages like for instance population, funding and hope pitch advantage for every game, had these advantages multiplied over decades as in Dublin's case. If the answers are yes on all counts, then yes, splitting France would have helped Ireland get out of their group
Do you honestly believe this? Let's suppose that they were at an advantage, for the sake of argument…….How would we have played better without France in the other side of the draw? Which games would we have played better in? Why would our opponents have played worse in those games? How many more goals would we have scored? Why didn't we score those goals in the actual matches we played? Which team would not have gotten out of the group, seeing as we're now getting out of the group? If you cannot provide any of the above (not all of them, ANY of them) then you have nothing to back up your assertion that we'd make it out of the group.
As I've said before, Leitrim have a far better chance of beating a Dublin divisional side, so even though there are more of them, their chances of winning more games, going further in the All-Ireland competition etc., go up, massively, so there is an additional benefit to them. So even though there are more divisional teams, Leitrim massively benefit from a split of Dublin here, again.
You're only partially responding to the points being made. Again. And claiming that you're providing comprehensive answers. Again. You're also completely contradicting yourself.
As I've said before, Leitrim have a far better chance of beating a Dublin divisional side, so even though there are more of them, their chances of winning more games, going further in the All-Ireland competition etc., go up, massively, so there is an additional benefit to them. So even though there are more divisional teams, Leitrim massively benefit from a split of Dublin here, again.
You're only partially responding to the points being made. Again. And claiming that you're providing comprehensive answers. Again. You're also completely contradicting yourself. Are you honestly saying that Leitrim would have more chance of making it to the All-Ireland Final if they were in the QF if the other teams left were Mayo, Kerry, Clare, Fermanagh, Cavan, Dublin, Laois…….than they would be if you replaced Laois, Clare and Cavan with Dublin B, C and D? That’s delusional.
didn't put any words in your mouth so I have nothing to apologise for.
You said: “And we don't even have to consider how splitting Dublin would help Leitrim in qualifiers, All-Ireland series etc as even you, in your hopelessly partisan view, can clearly see the benefits from splitting Dublin to Leitrim”
I never once said I can clearly see the benefits of splitting Dublin for Leitrim. Not once. You claimed I did, ergo putting words in my mouth. You also claimed just now that I went ballistic about sharing grounds, which I did not.
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@Yeah Right here is where you dismissed the stadium comparison as not being applicable as it wasn't gaelic games. So looks like I was right again unfortunately. I'll accept your apology in advance! But it's fine, we all make mistakes, misremember things, including me. The important thing is that we try to do better in future.
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Exactly, I don't know the games they would have won. In the same way we don't know which games Dublin would have lost had Cluxton not been there- we just know they would have lost some. You already accept the point about Cluxton. The logic is the exact same for Leitrim. I've already dealt with how the benefits may differ by county- please reread my last couple of posts for some insight there.
As above, with the France comparison, I don't think you like comparison with other sports? So not sure I should answer this question, by your rules. But as above, I'm not sure which games we'd have done worse in- just that it would have happen. Like with the Cluxton analogy which you already accepted as being totally correct. The damage to prestige, integrity and fairness from a uniquely advantaged French team would have damaged our performance levels, just as competing in a fairer tournament would have enhanced them, probably more than the better teams. Looking it up, Italy won that tournament. So the benefits to Ireland, would likely have been greater than in Italy's case here for instance. But anyway, as somebody once said "Soccer, eh? Cool. Now do inter-county GAA teams… See what I mean about cherry-picking?"
In the scenario you just gave- for one thing, Leitrim would have been far, far more likely to have made it to that stage of the tournament. So they'd already have benefited. And they'd have a more likely chance of proceeding further. It would be equally likely they'd get drawn vs a Dublin divisional side, which they'd have a better chance of beating. Even if not, as in your case, as I said already, they'd already have benefited by making it that far- plus would have more morale going into the match, and all the othe reasons I've explained countless times that would have helped them in Connaught/ the Qualifiers.
You said you accepted that Leitrim would have a better chance vs a Dublin divisional side vs the currently unified Dublin team (plus it is now a fair contest). So you absolutely accepted this point. The benefits are enormous here, anyone can see it! See my other post about sharing grounds. As I said, no issues with making mistakes, we all do it, but we need to learn so we can enhance our conversation going forward.0 -
@Yeah Right Also, how do you propose dealing with the unique combination, nature, scale and duration of advantages that Dublin have over every other county in population, funding and home pitch advantages? I think in our discussion you may have missed that question (hopefully by accident)!
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Personally think the All-Ireland, while it was always a bit of a joke, has become more of a joke in recent years.
The likes of Kerry and Dublin will be allowed a nice easy run into it. They will easily beat teams in the early rounds while resting players or against a background of heavy training. In Connacht or Ulster, teams like Mayo, Galway, Derry, Donegal, Tyrone will need to hit the ground running or else risk a long trip to the quarter finals. If they lose in the province, it could be curtains.
The league is a much better competition. It would be great to see Sam Maguire awarded to the winners, at least on a trial basis. It would be more competitive.
In the current championship Dublin and Kerry seem to have gained an advantage, and I can see both being there or thereabouts at the business end.
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So, you initially said that I went crazy, now you're saying I dismissed it? Which is it?
I never went crazy, that's you putting words in my mouth.
Again.
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You went crazy and dismissed it as being relevant. Both are accurate in this case. As I said, it's okay but you did previously think comparisons with soccer were irrelevant. Now you think they are. Which is it?
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You already accept the point about Cluxton.
No. I didn't. More words in my mouth.
we just know they would have lost some
No, we don't. They would have been weaker, but there is no guarantee they would have lost games that they actually won.
The logic is the exact same for Leitrim. I've already dealt with how the benefits may differ by county- please reread my last couple of posts for some insight there.
The logic is completely different, you're only claiming it's the same.
If Dublin had no Cluxton in the team, they DEFINITELY would have been a weaker team because he's the best keeper of his generation, maybe ever.
If Dublin had been dissolved in 2003, there is no way you (or anyone) can honestly say that Leitrim would DEFINITELY have made it out of Connaught, because they weren't playing Dublin at any stage in those games. Their opponents would have been the same and the results would have been the same because Dublin being in Leinster doesn't affect what happens in Connaught. It simply doesn't, it's a completely different competition with different teams.
I'm not sure which games we'd have done worse in- just that it would have happen.
I asked which games we'd have played better in, not worse. How do you know it would have happened? What happened in those matches that was affected by France? The correct answer is nothing.
Like with the Cluxton analogy which you already accepted as being totally correct.
Nope, I did not. That's three times in the space of two posts you've put words in my mouth after claiming you didn't do it and had nothing to apologise for.
The damage to prestige, integrity and fairness from a uniquely advantaged French team would have damaged our performance levels,
Absolute conjecture. Load of bollocks, really,.
So the benefits to Ireland, would likely have been greater than in Italy's case here for instance.
Why? How? You keep pulling this crap out of your hole with absolutely nothing to back it up. You're literally inventing stuff to back up your argument, because you have nothing else. We had played 2 matches and already been knocked out of the tournament by Spain and Croatia before France played their second game. We were already out. France had no impact on our tournament. Literally zero.
In the scenario you just gave- for one thing, Leitrim would have been far, far more likely to have made it to that stage of the tournament.
Another one pulled from your hole. How would they have been? What results would have gone their way that didn't? If you can't point to any then you can't say they'd have qualified.
It would be equally likely they'd get drawn vs a Dublin divisional side, which they'd have a better chance of beating.
That's terrible maths. They would have had three times the chances of drawing a Dublin side than any other county. And are you honestly trying to claim that they'd fare better against Dublin's divisional sides than they would versus Clare or Laois? I'll have what you're smoking, please.
You said you accepted that Leitrim would have a better chance vs a Dublin divisional side vs the currently unified Dublin team (plus it is now a fair contest).
Correct, for once. Now, what did I say immediately after that? I said they'd be worse off against that divisional side than they would against the other mid-tier counties that they could possibly play and would, overall, be worse off. So, no, I didn't accpt that point, which makes it 4 times in the one post you've misrepresented what I said. I'll thank you to give that over, please.
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this is all, literally, your imagination being spunked out onto a page. The creative writing forum is thataway.
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That is not going crazy. You're an expert at misrepresentation.
I said comparing the groundsharing that goes on in Soccer is not a valid comparison with what you were proposing the Dublin teams would do at the time. I never said comparisons with soccer were irrelevant. That's your lack of reading comprehension and propensity for misrepresentation rearing it's ugly head again.
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This one I did answer. Here it is again, seeing as you havethe reading comprehension of a 4 year old.:
Having a full strength Dublin side improves the prestige, integrity and fairness of the competition and therefore increases the competitiveness of all teams in the All-Ireland.
You called it bullshit, but It's hard to keep track of all the nonsense you post when all you post is nonsense, I suppose.
Post edited by Yeah Right on3 -
The issue you initially mentioned was if it would help them in Connaught (not that they'd have made it out, where the gains are even more obvious). And yes, we can say that due to Leitrim's improved interest and participation, their performances would have been enhanced in the event of a Dublin split. This is because the Provincials feed into, and are part of, the All-Ireland. So splitting Dublin helps all aspects of the competition.
Re: France, as above 2nd paragraph. But really we'd have to imagine a scenario where France are unfairly advantaged like Dublin are for it to be a proper analogy. If they were unfairly advantaged like Dublin, then yes a split would have aided our performances. Just like with Leitrim in Connaught. And again, I'll remind you of your own words "Soccer, eh? Cool. Now do inter-county GAA teams… See what I mean about cherry-picking?"
Re: Dublin divisional sides, same answer as before: As Leitrim have a better chance of beating any of them individually, and it's a Cup competition, and now it's a fair tournament and all the benefits to Leitrim that come with that apply here too, absolutely their overall chances would be helped vs the status quo. They've no hope at all vs Dublin currently so any improvement in chances is a massive improvement. And the no hope currently comes from a totally stacked playing field in favour of Dublin.
So I haven't misrepresented you at all and my answers are both irrefutable and unchanging.Post edited by gaffer91 on0 -
No rebuttal from you then- I'll accept this as a tacit acceptance of the real but differing benefits to all counties that will come from a Dublin split. I genuinely do believe anyone with an open mind will be able to convinced on this issue so I will take this as a sign of progress!
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You initially denied it happened, now you're trying to pretend you didn't mean it. You didn't like evidence of where stadium sharing works perfectly well in a real-world sporting setting so you went crazy and dismissed it. You said "Soccer, eh? Cool. Now do inter-county GAA teams… See what I mean about cherry-picking?".
So you did say that soccer isn't a relevant comparison. There's no reason this would be the case for stadiums but not other aspects of the sport. It is hypocritical but I am still happy to engage in this debate on your terms. But there can be no doubt about you going crazy and dismissing it, it's plain for all to see.0 -
That's funny but come on, we need to have this debate properly, not just repeat meaningless phrases without any foundation. This would hold true, if Dublin weren't unfairly advantaged. But unfortunately this is not the case, so sadly they need to be split.
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Also ties into my other points about the amount of Revenue Dublin bring into the GAA directly and indirectly, attendances, sponsorship, viewing figures etc.
It is just a fact that Dublin football has the best "brand value" of any county in the GAA. Love them them or hate them people tune in.
And the fact that without Dublin GAA there would be far less players produced from Dublin that play their football for weaker counties.
Also Dublin football provides a great service for intercounty players who live or work in Dublin. And want to maintain or improve their level by playing club football in Dublin. It again indirectly benefits other counties.
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A Dublin "spilt" would leave a massive void in the GAA even beyond the Dublin team itself. What would fill that void? It would probably be the worst decision in the GAA since the advanced mark!
Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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Not going to happen lad in my lifetime or my grandchildrens lifetime, and beyond.
If it did it would be the end of the GAA.
As a matter of interest where does Dublin Hurling fit into this fantasy of yours?
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I asked yer man that as well but he did not answer it - surprise surprise.
If there is ever a Dublin spilt it could take 50 years for any new Dublin counties to settle, by which point the GAA would have lost ground to Soccer, Rugby etc.
I thought about it and if Dublin was spilt for football it would mean for Hurling. Because administrators would be stretched hurling would become a complete afterthought, because of the enormous resources required to create these mythical new Dublin "counties". Brand awarmess, logistics, sponsorship, administration, stadiums, playing pitches, office space etc.
Given that Dublin hurling is the sport of hurling's last hope of any real growth of the game outside of it's traditional base. It would basically mean that hurling in Ireland stays static at best. Or an enormous potential hurling player base is lost to the game. Which of course means that if any of the other "the traditional" hurling counties drop off like Offaly again. that hurling could be in serious trouble.
It mean that hurling could quickly become an endangered sport dependant on a very small geographic area, with a small population base.
Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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Amalgamation of smaller counties makes far more sense than splitting larger counties. The newly amalgamated counties would already have training facilities and county grounds to play in. Splitting larger counties like Dublin, Cork or Antrim would leave more unnecessary facilities needing to be built. Not a runner.
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Most of what you're citing here just reflects Dublin's population and funding advantages and are grounds for a split more than anything else. It's probably true to say that without a split popular interest, and by extension revenue, for all counties, and the game as a whole, will decline massively in the short to medium term, as has happened in Leinster already. Not splitting Dublin would probably the worst decision in the GAA since allowing massive overfunding of Dublin vs every other county since the mid-2000s!
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Definitely not a fantasy, just a proposal to help the GAA in all counties. This is just a friendly discussion, none of us are in a position to influence the GAA (as far as I know). I think it's probably truer to say that without splitting Dublin, the inter-county game will wither and die. The real fantasy is assuming Dublin have won their titles fairly.
Hurling has already been discussed multiple times so I would suggest going back over the thread. Long story short, we'd have to assess their funding vs the footballers to assess the most beneficial number of divisional sides (may be 3 rather than the 4+ that is clearly warranted for the footballers), but they should also be split (for refernece, even pre overfunding from the mid-2000s, I was in favour of a two-way split of Dublin; sadly the events of the last few decades have meant a much larger split is now warranted).
Also I fully accept that a split of Dublin is a long way off, there was some momentum building around 2020 but it has more or less died off. It definitely should still happen though, for the good of the game.0 -
So this has also been discussed numerous times and it's been concluded that there is no need for new grounds for matches/training after a split of Dublin as existing facilities are adequate on a shared basis. Also, as Dublin are the only team unfairly advantaged, they're the only team who should be split, so no need to factor in Cork or Antrim.
Definitely voluntary amalgamations should be offered, after a mandatory split of Dublin. The reason for this is because Westmeath for instance underperforming doesn't damage the prestige, integrity and fairness of the All-Ireland, whereas Dublin competing off a platform of unfair advantages does massive harm on all those areas.0 -
None of that is correct. 4 counties (across both codes) can not train and play in one counties facilities. It is far more practical for smaller counties to amalgamate than for larger counties to be split.
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It's 100% correct. For training, decent club/University facilities will be sufficient and matches, which are relatively rare in Gaelic Football vs other sports in terms of number per year, can be easily organised in such a way that facilitates all of the Dublin divisional sides in Croke Park/ Parnell Park. It really wouldn't be that much hassle. Teams like AC and Inter Milan share their stadium and it's no issue at all. Also if the GAA is really serious about making the competition fairer, the Dublin divisional sides would be playing away from home a lot more frequently than the current Dublin team, making it easier still.
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No that is incorrect. It is far more practical for smaller counties to amalgamate than for larger counties to be split as the facilities are already in place.
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