Turas Nua

Mr.H

jmcgill16 wrote:

8k is the absolute lowest possible figure. Its likely a multiple of that, given their lack of involvement in securing the jobs in so many of the cases. edit: actually just checked, the adjusted figure is now under 6% as of this month. So the minimum cost to the state is closer to 14k per "job".

I also have no idea where you are coming up with 14k

If a person is unemployed long term and suddenly gets a job because they have been forced to attend job path. Then yes TN or seetac deserve to be paid.

jmcgill16

Mr.H wrote: »

I also have no idea where you are coming up with 14k

If a person is unemployed long term and suddenly gets a job because they have been forced to attend job path. Then yes TN or seetac deserve to be paid.

Just over 11,000 people who have been referred to JobPath have gotten a long term job. The JobPath scheme to date has cost the Irish state €150million. This works out as a cost to the Irish state of almost €14k per job found.

And thats assuming JobPath were responsible for every one of those jobs, which is a huge leap of faith - given all the many reports of them hounding people to give them job details, for which they had no responsibility in getting. The likely cost per job actually sourced by JobPath to the Irish state is a multiple of that, ie €25k+.

The issue is over 80% of the people who were referred to JobPath, who are now in sustained duration employment, weren't long term unemployed. They were short term unemployed. So were highly likely to end up in jobs anyway, without being referred to JobPath - and without the government having to pay thousands of euros in fees to JobPath.

Thats why JobPath is such a waste of taxpayers money. If the scheme only targeted the long term unemployed, and had good rates of success with them, the debate would be very different.

Mr.H

Can you show figures that it targeted short term and not long term unemployed? Also your figure of 19k people has now dropped to 11k? How is this?

You are just making up figures and scenarios, and claiming them as fact.

What is your altetnative solution?

jmcgill16

Mr.H wrote: »

Can you show figures that it targeted short term and not long term unemployed? Also your figure of 19k people has now dropped to 11k? How is this?

What is your altetnative solution?

The very low confirmed number of only 11k jobs comes from new figures that were publicly covered in the media today: https://www.thejournal.ie/jobpath-2-4502466-Feb2019/

There are no publicly accessible figures that it targeted short term unemployed, but they exist. There is lots, and lots, of public anecdotal evidence that show it - have a look at reports of people here on boards.ie, on social media, constituents mentioned by TDs in the Dail etc.

The alternative solution is to use the already pre-existing employment support services - TUS, Local Employment Services, Solas etc, to target/assist the actual long term unemployed. Now that unemployment rates are almost back to boom time lows there is plenty of capacity in the system. Why pay private UK companies extremely high fees to do the job when there are state employees, who're already being paid, with the ability to do it?

Its far more financially efficient for the state, and better for the Irish taxpayer, to do that than letting JobPath enroll people who've been unemployed for 1 month, then claim credit (and thousands of euro in payments from the state) when they get a job - as short term unemployed they were always extremely likely to anyway.

Mr.H

So there is no evidence to back up the claim that its short term unemployed that are targeted other than hearsay by people with an agenda.

The figure reported today is just another figure thrown about that has no substance behind it. Its just another random figure to discredit them.

As for schemes like ce and tus. You know that people get stuck on those and never do anything with their lives yea? These are what wasting tax is about. Taking actual jobs and paying people an extra 20 quid to do them. Then those people gain nothing but a life of no real work.

Solas or fas has already shown to be a failure ran by the state. Having people working public sector doing these jobs is not the answer. At least in the private sector we can move those staff on when its mission complete. Instead of the old jobs for life.

Just look at the tds saying this stuff. They have history of playing to a certain demographic.

jmcgill16

Mr.H wrote: »

So there is no evidence to back up the claim that its short term unemployed that are targeted other than hearsay by people with an agenda.

The figure reported today is just another figure thrown about that has no substance behind it. Its just another random figure to discredit them.

The figures reported today are directly from JobPath themselves: they're far from "random figures" with "no substance behind it". They show that only 5.5% of those referred, 11k of 206,000, have gotten long term employment. Theres really no arguing with that - its very definitive empirical evidence of the failure of the program to justify the massive €150mn cost to the Irish tax payer.

As for schemes like ce and tus. You know that people get stuck on those and never do anything with their lives yea? These are what wasting tax is about. Taking actual jobs and paying people an extra 20 quid to do them. Then those people gain nothing but a life of no real work.

Solas or fas has already shown to be a failure ran by the state. Having people working public sector doing these jobs is not the answer. At least in the private sector we can move those staff on when its mission complete. Instead of the old jobs for life.

The facts don't support this at all. Ireland had essentially no unemployment for 6 years last decade when there were no private sector firms involved in social services. Given that its safe to assume the state services are more than capable of doing their job, and getting people employed, when they're not massively overloaded (as happened during the crisis).

Just look at the tds saying this stuff. They have history of playing to a certain demographic.

Every political party in the Dail, with the exception of Fine Gael, is now "saying this stuff". Its not some loony minority. Only 42 of 158 TDs voted last week in favour of keeping the program running. If almost 75% of our elected representatives are against JobPath, theres a sound reason for it. At this stage theres only a loony fringe minority in favour of keeping JobPath.

Worztron

Turas Nua is a subsidiary of Working Links (which became defunct last month) -- so how is TN still around?

splinter65

Worztron wrote: »

Turas Nua is a subsidiary of Working Links (which became defunct last month) -- so how is TN still around?

DEASP say their contract is with Turas Nua not Working Links.
It looks as if FRS recruitment will be taking TN over.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/emergency-talks-under-way-on-future-of-company-which-administers-half-of-jobpath-1.3798365%3fmode=amp

Worztron

splinter65 wrote: »

DEASP say their contract is with Turas Nua not Working Links.
It looks as if FRS recruitment will be taking TN over.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/emergency-talks-under-way-on-future-of-company-which-administers-half-of-jobpath-1.3798365%3fmode=amp

I though that if a parent company failed -- the subsidiaries would also fold.

lolo62

Worztron wrote: »

Turas Nua is a subsidiary of Working Links (which became defunct last month) -- so how is TN still around?

Because the Irish government is keeping them on the gravy train.

Johnnycanyon

I thought that turas nua lark was voted out in the dail by 84 to 42? If so why are they still operating, probably some of the blue shirts have a vested interest in them.

Wanderer78

Johnnycanyon wrote:

I thought that turas nua lark was voted out in the dail by 84 to 42? If so why are they still operating, probably some of the blue shirts have a vested interest in them.

It ll be here for a while yet, don't be surprised if it's still running next year

Jurgen Klopp

Got a job ages back on my own initiative and these jokers are still ringing to know who I am with and how many hours I'm working despite having sweet **** all to do with getting me my job

How do I end this craic? Just the complaints form via the department site or does anyone have a direct number to complain to the department and tell them to fcuk off?

I keep saying I'm only doing 15 hours a week as it gets them to feck off as they can't claim for less than 30 hours a week but it's getting annoying now

Edit: to be very clear I'm long signed off and am getting zero SW payments, no rent allowance nothing

WinnyThePoo

If your signed off. They have no power over you. You don't have to tell them anything, expect to feck off.

Unfortunately a pseudo recruitment company like that attracts grifters.

Jurgen Klopp

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

If your signed off. They have no power over you. You don't have to tell them anything, expect to feck off.

Unfortunately a pseudo recruitment company like that attracts grifters.

Oh I know but they keep ringing the latest was today as they "are updating their files and wanted to know if I had commenced full time employment or was still part time"

Chancers

Wanderer78

Jurgen Klopp wrote:

How do I end this craic? Just the complaints form via the department site or does anyone have a direct number to complain to the department and tell them to fcuk off?

Ignore their calls maybe and block their numbers, if possible

Majesty

Hi,

I am on that programme and I saw Jeff Rudd on facebook. Does anyone know if I can drop off that programme now? Since they just made that programme not mandatory ?

Plugguy

Majesty wrote: »

Hi,

I am on that programme and I saw Jeff Rudd on facebook. Does anyone know if I can drop off that programme now? Since they just made that programme not mandatory ?

Jobpath is mandatory if you want to keep your Jobseeker's. Where did you see that it isn't?

oceanman

just roll with them, its only once a month for a about ten minutes, pretend you are interested.

Majesty

Plugguy wrote: »

Jobpath is mandatory if you want to keep your Jobseeker's. Where did you see that it isn't?

Ok so can someone comment on what I saw on Jeff's Rudd facebook from February this year 7/2/2019?? I can't post links or images because I am new user sadly...
He is showing legal papers and saying that it was ruled out by the court that JOBpath is NO LONGER MANDATORY. Later on in his video he is saying that even tho that is illigal staff of Turas Nua is still informing people that this is the mandatory.

From post from 11 Feb he is saying:" This is exactly what was passed by JobPath Dail Motion, which then became legal and active.
Regarding Government and the department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection-they must:
-immediately cease all referrals to the JobPath service and end the mandatory nature of the scheme;
-end the contract with the JobPath providers as soon as possible without any extension;
-property resource and expad existing job activation schemes which are community-based.

In another post from 11 of Feb this year he is showing pic of The JobPath Bill legal documents which the most important section of it states that this is the law from 8th of Feb 2019 that Jobpath is no longer mandatory.

What are your thoughts on that guys?

Balagan1

Majesty wrote: »

Ok so can someone comment on what I saw on Jeff's Rudd facebook from February this year 7/2/2019?? I can't post links or images because I am new user sadly...
He is showing legal papers and saying that it was ruled out by the court that JOBpath is NO LONGER MANDATORY. Later on in his video he is saying that even tho that is illigal staff of Turas Nua is still informing people that this is the mandatory.

From post from 11 Feb he is saying:" This is exactly what was passed by JobPath Dail Motion, which then became legal and active.
Regarding Government and the department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection-they must:
-immediately cease all referrals to the JobPath service and end the mandatory nature of the scheme;
-end the contract with the JobPath providers as soon as possible without any extension;
-property resource and expad existing job activation schemes which are community-based.

In another post from 11 of Feb this year he is showing pic of The JobPath Bill legal documents which the most important section of it states that this is the law from 8th of Feb 2019 that Jobpath is no longer mandatory.

What are your thoughts on that guys?

Firstly, a look at the forum charter will let you know that this forum is not the correct place for this discussion.

The Motion was passed in the Dail but it has not come into force. It is never automatic. The Government is tied up in contracts with those delivering JobPath. It is an awful situation as JobPath has been discredited every which way but as you come asking if JobPath is still mandatory, then the answer is that, at present, yes, it is still mandatory and sanctions of reduction in Jobseekers payments apply to those refusing to engage or ceasing engagement.

Johnnycanyon

Just been reading on the Tipperary times that Turas Nua days are numbered, it will run until the end of the year and there will be no more people referred to them.

mike222

Hallelujah 🙌

killanena

I mentioned the trouble my girlfriend had with them earlier in the thread. She was asked to sign another contract 3 weeks ago. She refused and hasn't heard from them sense.

Mr.H

Johnnycanyon wrote:

Just been reading on the Tipperary times that Turas Nua days are numbered, it will run until the end of the year and there will be no more people referred to them.

So what will replace it? Or do you think nothing will?

Real question. What would you guys like to see replace it? How would you deal with long term unemployed who cant seem to get a job for whatever reason?

Worztron

Johnnycanyon wrote: »

Just been reading on the Tipperary times that Turas Nua days are numbered, it will run until the end of the year and there will be no more people referred to them.

Hi Johnnycanyon. No more people referred to them from last February or no more referrals by the end of this year?

Worztron

Are Seetec also on the way out?

Sonny noggs

Oh no, how will the likes of Jeff Rudd get a job now?

dhaughton99

Mr.H wrote: »

So what will replace it? Or do you think nothing will?

Real question. What would you guys like to see replace it? How would you deal with long term unemployed who cant seem to get a job for whatever reason?

A properly managed Jobbridge. Yes, the original was being abused, mostly by schools and health, the same way they use and abuse TUS. But properly policed, it could help the long term.

Faith+1

Johnnycanyon wrote: »

Just been reading on the Tipperary times that Turas Nua days are numbered, it will run until the end of the year and there will be no more people referred to them.

https://tipperarytimes.com/gerryan/community/winding-down-of-jobpath-and-turas-nua-is-a-very-welcome-development-mattie-mcgrath/