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Turas Nua
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13-02-2019 4:17pm#1Hi,
Just got a letter in the post yesterday to attend a group session next week followed by individual meetings.
Just a few questions..
How long after the group session will the individual meeting take place?
Do I need to bring anything with me to the group session?
What are people experiences of Turas Nua?0
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Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 80,009 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 79198
Hi,
Just got a letter in the post yesterday to attend a group session next week followed by individual meetings.
Just a few questions..
How long after the group session will the individual meeting take place?
Do I need to bring anything with me to the group session?
What are people experiences of Turas Nua?
1) about a week after
2) no
3) Useless shower that don't know what there doing with pointless courses.1 -
Sephiroth_dude wrote: »1) about a week after
2) no
3) Useless shower that don't know what there doing with pointless courses.
Thanks for your help!
Is it true that they apply for jobs for you?0 -
Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 80,009 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 79198
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Sephiroth_dude wrote: »Yup, even if you're not qualified for it.
Jeez, after doing a bit of researching - I am not hearing great things.
Any advice on how I should carry myself during the group session plus the one-on-one meetings?
If the apply for jobs for me, I hope they take into consideration that I don't drive and rely on public transport.1 -
Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 80,009 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 79198
Jeez, after doing a bit of researching - I am not hearing great things.
Any advice on how I should carry myself during the group session plus the one-on-one meetings?
If the apply for jobs for me, I hope they take into consideration that I don't drive and rely on public transport.
Just go along with them, attend the meetings etc, if a job is out of the way for you tell them that, I have, do what's best for you and dont let them bully you into taking a job that's not right or is difficult for you too get to.1 -
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Gympodie wrote:Any advice on how I should carry myself during the group session plus the one-on-one meetings?
Best thing to do is judge for yourself. You have to remember people online dont usually go online to voice good experiences. Most moaning online dont want to work so are obviously not happy about someone helping them.0 -
Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 80,009 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 79198
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Sephiroth_dude wrote:Pay no attention too this nonsense
Yea such nonsense telling someone to make up their own mind and not rely on ill advice from the few that seem to take pride and joy into finding something wrong in getting people work.
I was referred to job path years ago before TN and seetac existed. They where even more condesending back then and run by intreo. I mean ffs people moaning now that a private company are talking down to them (which i highly doubt unless your actively not trying to get work). Have you experienced the dole office????? Could you imagine them running job path instead?
After doing some research i found that you are refereed to them if you are long term unemployed and under 62 receiving a job seekers payment. So a recruitment agency are tasked with helping you get a job if you cant get yourself a job? Yea scandalous.
Whats even funnier is the lads on here screaming that they can get their own jobs. I mean ffs do it then!! If you could get your own job you wouldnt be sent to them.
I am an employer for a coffee chain in ireland and i would have no issue taking people that either worked in seetac or got help from them. I def wouldnt hire someone who puts so much effort into avoiding getting work. If your on job seekers allowance you are paid to seek a job. Simple as. You cant find one, a recruitment agency has been hired to help you.
And yes if you cant get a job in the sector you have been in you should look elsewhere. I was in management for 10 years before being unemployed. Had to start again at the bottom but worked my way back up. Thats life.0 -
Yea such nonsense telling someone to make up their own mind and not rely on ill advice from the few that seem to take pride and joy into finding something wrong in getting people work.
I was referred to job path years ago before TN and seetac existed. They where even more condesending back then and run by intreo. I mean ffs people moaning now that a private company are talking down to them (which i highly doubt unless your actively not trying to get work). Have you experienced the dole office????? Could you imagine them running job path instead?
After doing some research i found that you are refereed to them if you are long term unemployed and under 62 receiving a job seekers payment. So a recruitment agency are tasked with helping you get a job if you cant get yourself a job? Yea scandalous.
Whats even funnier is the lads on here screaming that they can get their own jobs. I mean ffs do it then!! If you could get your own job you wouldnt be sent to them.
I am an employer for a coffee chain in ireland and i would have no issue taking people that either worked in seetac or got help from them. I def wouldnt hire someone who puts so much effort into avoiding getting work. If your on job seekers allowance you are paid to seek a job. Simple as. You cant find one, a recruitment agency has been hired to help you.
And yes if you cant get a job in the sector you have been in you should look elsewhere. I was in management for 10 years before being unemployed. Had to start again at the bottom but worked my way back up. Thats life.
Some of what you say is undoubtedly correct but not all. The Dail had good reason for passing the vote to end referrals to JobPath by 81 to 42. Some of the practices of Seetac and Turas Nua with regard to the hounding of people to leave part time jobs which suited them and were what they trained for and within which they may very well have got their hands on a full time job - to be forced to leave these for dead end full time jobs in order that Seetac/Turas Nua got their money, was appalling. The insisting that people forego education in order to take dead end jobs, in some case, just short term contracts, was also appalling. When participants got jobs through their own efforts, the practice of hounding them and their employers in order to secure the payment for Seetac/Turas Nua was the worst of all. You say that you would give employment to Seetac/Turas Nua administrators and that is your choice. But I can tell you that I know of quite a few companies who, on receipt of applications for HR positions from present Seetac/Turas Nua administrators, do not even give them an interview because of the methods they have been trained to use in order to secure payment. The excuse of 'only following orders' is from a very dark time and the harder we try to put it behind us, the better.1 -
If you want to find a job they will help you. It's all down to your attitude going in.0
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Balagan1 wrote:Some of what you say is undoubtedly correct but not all. The Dail had good reason for passing the vote to end referrals to JobPath by 81 to 42. Some of the practices of Seetac and Turas Nua with regard to the hounding of people to leave part time jobs which suited them and were what they trained for and within which they may very well have got their hands on a full time job - to be forced to leave these for dead end full time jobs in order that Seetac/Turas Nua got their money, was appalling. The insisting that people forego education in order to take dead end jobs, in some case, just short term contracts, was also appalling. When participants got jobs through their own efforts, the practice of hounding them and their employers in order to secure the payment for Seetac/Turas Nua was the worst of all. You say that you would give employment to Seetac/Turas Nua administrators and that is your choice. But I can tell you that I know of quite a few companies who, on receipt of applications for HR positions from present Seetac/Turas Nua administrators, do not even give them an interview because of the methods they have been trained to use in order to secure payment. The excuse of 'only following orders' is from a very dark time and the harder we try to put it behind us, the better.
I just find all this kinda talk scare mongering. Just look at the parties who passed the vote. They are just sucking up to the voters. They have previous.
As for getting people to quit pt jobs? If someone has been in a pt job and there is no chance of going ft then yes they should leave. Why should the tax payer pay people to work part time just because it suits them. It would suit me to work part time but i need the money and dont think its right to claim job seekers when i am not seeking work.
I fail to see the dark arts. Sending people on training course when they are failing to get a ft job? I mean seriously. Tell me what they are doing wrong.0 -
If you want to find a job they will help you. It's all down to your attitude going in.
I wanted to find a job and found them hopeless. Went in with a positive attitude, cooperated as much as I could, travelled a good distance for the one interview they helped me to get so I definitely don't fit the work dodging profile that a few on here seem determined to lump everyone who dislikes the scheme into. Found a job myself after a few months and they were all over me trying to get info about it so they could claim they helped me. Useless shower.0 -
Yea such nonsense telling someone to make up their own mind and not rely on ill advice from the few that seem to take pride and joy into finding something wrong in getting people work.
I was referred to job path years ago before TN and seetac existed. They where even more condesending back then and run by intreo. I mean ffs people moaning now that a private company are talking down to them (which i highly doubt unless your actively not trying to get work). Have you experienced the dole office????? Could you imagine them running job path instead?
After doing some research i found that you are refereed to them if you are long term unemployed and under 62 receiving a job seekers payment. So a recruitment agency are tasked with helping you get a job if you cant get yourself a job? Yea scandalous.
Whats even funnier is the lads on here screaming that they can get their own jobs. I mean ffs do it then!! If you could get your own job you wouldnt be sent to them.
I am an employer for a coffee chain in ireland and i would have no issue taking people that either worked in seetac or got help from them. I def wouldnt hire someone who puts so much effort into avoiding getting work. If your on job seekers allowance you are paid to seek a job. Simple as. You cant find one, a recruitment agency has been hired to help you.
And yes if you cant get a job in the sector you have been in you should look elsewhere. I was in management for 10 years before being unemployed. Had to start again at the bottom but worked my way back up. Thats life.
I was sent to them after being unemployed for a month. If they were actually a recruitment agency that could do their jobs I wouldn't mind. During my few months with them I attended several courses that were of no use whatsoever to me such as writing a CV (despite attending courses to do this in the past which were infinitely more informative) interview "training" (again, despite having done this at a higher level before) and an inane online course about self belief.
They might do some good for people who have been unemployed for a while, but I personally found their pointless meetings to be more of a hindrance than a help.0 -
Doctor Jimbob wrote:They might do some good for people who have been unemployed for a while, but I personally found their pointless meetings to be more of a hindrance than a help.
And what about their job matching service? I am currently about to hire a couple of their customers through their employer services. Plus i get 10k towards each person for giving them full time. That certainly helped me decide..
You must have been on social welfare before that job or else on casual documents. Nobody gets referred after 30 days on social welfare.0 -
My girlfriend had to deal with them for awhile not too long ago. She had a horrible experience with them.
She once called them 3 days in advance to reschedule a one on one as my daughters creche was closed for renovations and I could not get the time off work. They said that was fine, but her social payment was cut by a third the following week and took 2 more weeks to get it returned to normal. They said straight out that they did not receive any phone call from her even though she showed them her call history as proof.
Once she arrived to attend a one on one to be told by the receptionist that her employment advisor was out sick and when she asked why she wasn't informed beforehand the receptionist just walked away from the window. My girlfriend had to travel 20km by bus to attend.
And now that's she had recently gotten a job (by herself) they are calling and emailing her asking for her employers details? She is not responding to them anymore but they don't give up?!0 -
My girlfriend had to deal with them for awhile not too long ago. She had a horrible experience with them.
She once called them 3 days in advance to reschedule a one on one as my daughters creche was closed for renovations and I could not get the time off work. They said that was fine, but her social payment was cut by a third the following week and took 2 more weeks to get it returned to normal. They said straight out that they did not receive any phone call from her even though she showed them her call history as proof.
Once she arrived to attend a one on one to be told by the receptionist that her employment advisor was out sick and when she asked why she wasn't informed beforehand the receptionist just walked away from the window. My girlfriend had to travel 20km by bus to attend.
And now that's she had recently gotten a job (by herself) they are calling and emailing her asking for her employers details? She is not responding to them anymore but they don't give up?!
tell her to block their numbers0 -
I just find all this kinda talk scare mongering. Just look at the parties who passed the vote. They are just sucking up to the voters. They have previous.
Every political party in the Dail other than Fine Gael is now in favour of ending JobPath. Only 42 of the 158 TDs in the Dail voted against ending referrals to JobPath this month, just over a quarter of our representatives. Clearly the vast majority of TDs think the €150mn spent to get 9% of the "clients" referred to JobPath jobs has been a waste.
I don't doubt that a few of the offices may be outliers and may have treated jobseekers well. But even leaving aside the social media (or forums) horror stories so many TDs from across the political spectrum have highlighted major issues with the program over the last year - its clearly rotten. Its days are numbered now at least.0 -
Some of what you say is undoubtedly correct but not all. The Dail had good reason for passing the vote to end referrals to JobPath by 81 to 42. Some of the practices of Seetac and Turas Nua with regard to the hounding of people to leave part time jobs which suited them and were what they trained for and within which they may very well have got their hands on a full time job - to be forced to leave these for dead end full time jobs in order that Seetac/Turas Nua got their money, was appalling. The insisting that people forego education in order to take dead end jobs, in some case, just short term contracts, was also appalling. When participants got jobs through their own efforts, the practice of hounding them and their employers in order to secure the payment for Seetac/Turas Nua was the worst of all. You say that you would give employment to Seetac/Turas Nua administrators and that is your choice. But I can tell you that I know of quite a few companies who, on receipt of applications for HR positions from present Seetac/Turas Nua administrators, do not even give them an interview because of the methods they have been trained to use in order to secure payment. The excuse of 'only following orders' is from a very dark time and the harder we try to put it behind us, the better.
Jobseekers is for people looking for full time work. Why should the taxpayer subsidise someone happy to work part time in a job?0 -
Doctor Jimbob
I wanted to find a job and found them hopeless. Went in with a positive attitude, cooperated as much as I could, travelled a good distance for the one interview they helped me to get so I definitely don't fit the work dodging profile that a few on here seem determined to lump everyone who dislikes the scheme into. Found a job myself after a few months and they were all over me trying to get info about it so they could claim they helped me. Useless shower.
My experience exactly replicates.0 -
Doctor Jimbob wrote: »I was sent to them after being unemployed for a month. If they were actually a recruitment agency that could do their jobs I wouldn't mind. During my few months with them I attended several courses that were of no use whatsoever to me such as writing a CV (despite attending courses to do this in the past which were infinitely more informative) interview "training" (again, despite having done this at a higher level before) and an inane online course about self belief.
They might do some good for people who have been unemployed for a while, but I personally found their pointless meetings to be more of a hindrance than a help.
Ah so you have no experience of being forced to use their 'service' and have a vested interest in ensuring they receive good publicity. Your nonsensical posts make sense now at least.
I finished a IT degree course 3 years ago and was unemployed during the summer for 8 weeks or thereabouts. I had one foot in the door of a paid internship with Accenture that October, as well as was on a panel for 2 separate civil service jobs.
Got the TN letter and went to the meeting and was shocked at how condescending and unhelpful the staff were. They rubbished my CV (which I had done by an IT recruitment consultant) and urged me re arrange it and make it messy and to change fonts, which I did, just to shut them up. Also wanted me to apply for manual labour jobs even though I have arthritis in my knees and can find walking a struggle on some mornings. I never actually sent out their crap version of my CV either mind fyi.
Got a full time, permanent job few weeks after (through no help of TN) and was then hounded by phone calls, emails and letters for a good 2 months for details of my new employer, so TN could grift the taxpayer out of money for finding me a job, despite them having 0 to do with me getting it.
Awful shower, all they care about is claiming the bonus. They have been found out to be falsifying figures of successful job finding running similar schemes in the UK.
FG government have so far paid e75 million to these private companies running these shambolic schemes since inception. That money would have been far better spent on actual useful training for unemployed folk.0 -
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splinter65 wrote: »Jobseekers is for people looking for full time work. Why should the taxpayer subsidise someone happy to work part time in a job?
Anyone securing, on their own, a part time job in their field - a field they went through education and training for - then forcing that person into a dead end full time job away from their field into something which does not suit them and which will stick out like a sore thumb on a CV, is not in the long term interests of that person or indeed the taxpayer who will end up supporting them on Disability payment or indeed pay any respect to an education for which they may have received grants. Giving them a chance to stay in the part time job, build up something relevant on their CV and hopefully supporting them to find a full time job in their field, would be the way to go. Instead, Turas Nua and Seetac administrators, with little training beyond the basic, were placed in the position of having to hammer square pegs into round holes and belittling and humiliating people. Hopefully, changes will be made and soon.0 -
splinter65 wrote: »Jobseekers is for people looking for full time work. Why should the taxpayer subsidise someone happy to work part time in a job?
Often part time work leads to full time work,or leads to a c.v with less gaps in, or just generally keeps the idea of a work ethic going.
Some people have child care to think about.0 -
zoe 3619 wrote:Often part time work leads to full time work,or leads to a c.v with less gaps in, or just generally keeps the idea of a work ethic going. Some people have child care to think about.
So tax payers should pay them to take it easy?
People working ft also pay for childcare.0 -
So tax payers should pay them to take it easy?
People working ft also pay for childcare.
JobPath have had 205,000 "clients" they've received fees for from the Irish government as of January 2019. They've only gotten 9%, or under 19,000, of these people full time jobs lasting 12 months or more. And they've cost the Irish state €150mn doing so. Thats almost 8,000euro per job.
Thats also assuming JobPath were directly responsible for getting all of these Jobseekers jobs - when the overwhelming evidence on boards.ie, in traditional media, and in the Oireachtas would suggest otherwise. Its likely only a fraction of these 19,000 jobs were actually facilitated by JobPath, further significantly increasing the cost-per-job to the Irish state.
Regardless of anyone's opinion on the benefits or not of job activation schemes in general, JobPath specifically has empirically proven to be an absolute waste of Irish taxpayer's money.0 -
I love when people start talking numbers and have no idea what they are on about.
Ok lets say they get 8k for every job that last 12 months or longer. How much does a welfare recipient get for 12 months on social welfare fill payment? Over 10k! So we save 2k a person if they only last 12 months. If they dont last 12 months then they dont get paid 8k at all.
Given the fact that a lot of these people have been receiving over 10k a year for a few years, it is a huge potential saving for the state.
At least think about the figures before spouting rubbish.0 -
Anyone securing, on their own, a part time job in their field - a field they went through education and training for - then forcing that person into a dead end full time job away from their field into something which does not suit them and which will stick out like a sore thumb on a CV, is not in the long term interests of that person or indeed the taxpayer who will end up supporting them on Disability payment or indeed pay any respect to an education for which they may have received grants. Giving them a chance to stay in the part time job, build up something relevant on their CV and hopefully supporting them to find a full time job in their field, would be the way to go. Instead, Turas Nua and Seetac administrators, with little training beyond the basic, were placed in the position of having to hammer square pegs into round holes and belittling and humiliating people. Hopefully, changes will be made and soon.
So you would discriminate then against people who don’t have further education or training behind them? You are saying that if you have qualifications then you should be allowed to work part time indefinitely and get state support but if you are just a school leaver and you get a part time job then different rules apply to you and you are eligible for JobPath?0 -
JobPath have had 205,000 "clients" they've received fees for from the Irish government as of January 2019. They've only gotten 9%, or under 19,000, of these people full time jobs lasting 12 months or more. And they've cost the Irish state €150mn doing so. Thats almost 8,000euro per job.
Thats also assuming JobPath were directly responsible for getting all of these Jobseekers jobs - when the overwhelming evidence on boards.ie, in traditional media, and in the Oireachtas would suggest otherwise. Its likely only a fraction of these 19,000 jobs were actually facilitated by JobPath, further significantly increasing the cost-per-job to the Irish state.
Regardless of anyone's opinion on the benefits or not of job activation schemes in general, JobPath specifically has empirically proven to be an absolute waste of Irish taxpayer's money.
You’re not allowing for the 1000s of people referred to JobPath who turned out to be not eligible for Jobseekers but eligible for another SW payment instead. It was only when JobPath started working with them that this was discivered.0 -
I love when people start talking numbers and have no idea what they are on about.
Ok lets say they get 8k for every job that last 12 months or longer. How much does a welfare recipient get for 12 months on social welfare fill payment? Over 10k! So we save 2k a person if they only last 12 months. If they dont last 12 months then they dont get paid 8k at all.
Given the fact that a lot of these people have been receiving over 10k a year for a few years, it is a huge potential saving for the state.
At least think about the figures before spouting rubbish.
8k is the absolute lowest possible figure. Its likely a multiple of that, given their lack of involvement in securing the jobs in so many of the cases. edit: actually just checked, the adjusted figure is now under 6% as of this month. So the minimum cost to the state is closer to 14k per "job".
The issue is most of these people in question also have not been "receiving over 10k a year for a few years". The JobPath "success" figures are almost all short term unemployed, they've failed miserably with the long term unemployed. So essentially the state is paying 14k per job to a private company to reward them for doing nothing - the Jobseekers would likely have found the jobs themselves anyway, given they were short term unemployed.
Thats why its such a waste of taxpayers money.
As of this morning - "ONLY 11,334 PEOPLE out of 206,000 who have taken part in JobPath sustained employment for over 12 months".
Thats a pretty horrific figure by anyone's standards.splinter65 wrote: »You’re not allowing for the 1000s of people referred to JobPath who turned out to be not eligible for Jobseekers but eligible for another SW payment instead. It was only when JobPath started working with them that this was discivered.
These people are revenue neutral at best for the state long term - short term them being referred to JobPath actually costs the state more, in the fees to JobPath, on top of them receiving their new SW payment. If lots of them are moving onto other higher paid SW payments like Carer's Allowance for example then its also revenue negative for the Irish state long term.0 -
splinter65 wrote: »So you would discriminate then against people who don’t have further education or training behind them? You are saying that if you have qualifications then you should be allowed to work part time indefinitely and get state support but if you are just a school leaver and you get a part time job then different rules apply to you and you are eligible for JobPath?
If you have an education and current qualifications and have a part time job in your field then, as I said, a chance should be given to continue in it and with support from JobPath to turn that into a full-time job or source one elsewhere but preferably in your field. Being forced out of their field and into full time work for which the person is vastly overqualified and unlikely to remain in, makes no sense.
If you are a school leaver with no training/skills who has taken a minimum wage part time job with no prospects and you would benefit from being sent on the kind of courses that JobPath can link you into to give you the skills to get a full time job relevant to the new training and skills acquired, then yes, I can see a case for being encouraged to take the courses and hopefully,source a relevant full time job.
The needs of both are equally important but they are different. Recognizing and working with that difference to achieve the best result for both is not discrimination. JobPath sees no difference.0 -
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jmcgill16 wrote:8k is the absolute lowest possible figure. Its likely a multiple of that, given their lack of involvement in securing the jobs in so many of the cases. edit: actually just checked, the adjusted figure is now under 6% as of this month. So the minimum cost to the state is closer to 14k per "job".
Ok so how much do they receive for a person who spends 12 months with them and gets no job?
They get paid based on job sustains meaning they get 8k for any customer spending 12 months in a job rather than 12 months on the dole getting 10k.
As for people not lasting 12 months in a job? The question needs to be asked why.
If you are a qualified barber and there are no jobs in barbering then look for another type of job. Dont just think that the state should pay for you just because the job you want doesnt exist.0
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