Got to love the left.

Hector Savage

B0jangles wrote: »

That is not a word I use.


I repeat - anyone who spent more than 5 minutes looking into Donald Trump's lifetime of boasting, lying and serially going bankrupt, and thought 'This man is competent to be president', is severely, profoundly lacking in critical judgement.

Indeed, see my above post, how much are people shooting themselves in the foot that they would have rathered vote for this clown then Hillary ??!! - how broken is the US democratic party that they would do that ???

Still, I did have hope that in the 4 years between 2016-2020 the democrats would get their act together and get a good candidate with sensible traditional left policies .... - sadly not, they are still hissy fitting over Trump and Russian bot nonsense.

Hector Savage

Brian? wrote: »

Even Antifa aren’t an homogeneous group. More of a loose coalition of fringe groups. I disagree with some of their methods, but I agree with their cause. Everyone should be anti fascist.

I feel you’re generalising too much. Like a lot of people do. So it reaches the point where every stupid protest or online outrage is seen as a true representation of how the entire left behave.

I went to a school with a moron that could have just as easily been a neo nazi skinhead - he was a total football hooligan knacker always getting in fights.
The club he supported is a well known Dublin club with links to antiFa .. so I guess thats what he has aligned himself with now.

I knew him in the 90s and he was certainly no beacon of tolerance, he was always telling n*gger jokes and was a notorious homophobe.

So don't think AntiFa are some sort of moral authority on this !!

And another thing "Anti fascist" should be a default view for any reasonable person for ****s sake, I get suspicious when someone has to advertise it.

Hmmmm I must remember to put "Anti murder" and "Anti GBH" on my SM profiles :rolleyes:

mcmoustache

Auguste Comte wrote: »

That's why Renua, the PD's etc have been so successful.

For what it's worth, the PDs were my kind of party. I get painted as a lefty due to my dislike of Trump. By Irish standards, I lean right but the American right at the moment is a bit bonkers. The worry about the the left right now is way overblown compared to direction in which Trumpers want to take the world. While the crazy left is concerned with pronouns, the crazy right is stealing children from asylum applicants. There's a big difference in scale here.

B0jangles

Hector Savage wrote: »

Indeed, see my above post, how much are people shooting themselves in the foot that they would have rathered vote for this clown then Hillary ??!! - how broken is the US democratic party that they would do that ???

Still, I did have hope that in the 4 years between 2016-2020 the democrats would get their act together and get a good candidate with sensible traditional left policies .... - sadly not, they are still hissy fitting over Trump and Russian bot nonsense.

They were not forced to vote for Trump; they chose to.

Now that is it obvious to everyone (except maybe 2 scoops) that he is totally, grotesquely unfit for the role, people are running around making excuses for why they voted for the compulsive liar and obvious conman.


Looking at America's problems and seriously thinking Trump could fix them is like realising you have dandruff, setting your head on fire, then saying its my fault you have blisters because I made you do it when I said 'setting your head on fire to get rid of dandruff would be really really stupid'

2 Scoops

B0jangles wrote: »

Now that is it obvious to everyone (except maybe 2 scoops) that he is totally, grotesquely unfit for the role, people are running around making excuses for why they voted for the compulsive liar and obvious conman.

Should be no problem regaining the house and senate in the mid terms then.

Ulysses Gaze

Brian? wrote: »

I’ve seen a good few lately that I suspect were google translated. Especially on the left v right thread.

Endut! Hoch hech!

JohnMc1

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

It's no surprise really that a crowd of SJW's would jump in without knowing the facts.

Make no mistake if it was here there are plenty of jackasses who would do the same.

Ireland leans more to the right than the liberal media would have us believe, I think there is room for a political party with right wing views but it's just that we haven't been offered a credible alternative yet.

People are getting sick of the reckless immigration policies the Government is adopting.

The problem for Conservatism in Ireland is that the big 2 parties [Fianna Fail and Fianna Gael] claim to be Centre-Right, but their policies don't reflect it.

endacl

D9Male wrote: »

Do adults actually think calling the Daily Mail "The Daily Fail" is witty or funny?

Not really. Most just think it's more accurate.

storker

D9Male wrote: »

Do adults actually think calling the Daily Mail "The Daily Fail" is witty or funny?

No funnier than calling it a "newspaper", certainly.

(I prefer "Daily Wail".)

storker

B0jangles wrote: »

They were not forced to vote for Trump; they chose to.

I think one of the biggest failings of the centre and left and even non-loony right has been to dismiss that result as being due to stupidity, "deplorables" etc, rather than do some real self-analysis regarding what it was about more mainstream candidates and policies that made Trump look electable.

It's easy to dismiss it all with a self-satisfied hand-wave as "stupidity", but this is the same electorate that put Obama into the White House twice - were they stupid then too?

hatrickpatrick

storker wrote: »

I think one of the biggest failings of the centre and left and even non-loony right has been to dismiss that result as being due to stupidity, "deplorables" etc, rather than do some real self-analysis regarding what it was about more mainstream candidates and policies that made Trump look electable.

It's easy to dismiss it all with a self-satisfied hand-wave as "stupidity", but this is the same electorate that put Obama into the White House twice - were they stupid then too?

It's this attitude - that it was "stupidity" which led to both Brexit and Trump - which was in my view instrumental in producing those very results. People do not take kindly to being talked down to, being told what to do, being told that people doing better than them in life 'know what's best for them', or being insulted. Call it irrational, immoral, immature, whatever you like, but it's an extremely common human emotional response - the "doubling down" phenomenon, IE the more people tell you to do X, the more some people will do Y just out of sheer "you can't tell me what to do and I'm going to throw that in your face" bloody-mindedness.

I personally know people who voted for Trump for that very reason - the fact that the entirety of the media seemed to be championing Clinton instead of reporting on the election in a clinical and unopinionated manner. To these people, it genuinely felt like a conspiracy of the elite, when every single talking head and commentator was actively condemning one side and celebrating the other, and they voted for Trump for literally no reason other than "this is a democracy and I can vote for whoever I f*cking like, dammit". I don't know anyone who voted for Brexit on these grounds, but I have absolutely no doubt that this is the case for at least some yes voters.

It's extremely basic human psychology IMO. Constantly telling people "just do it, we don't have to explain why" and "if you don't do what we tell you, then you're an idiot, or a bad person, or an ignoramus" is literally the one absolutely iron-clad surefire way to make sure you lose an election. Politicians and those who cheerlead them need to re-discover the concept that each and every vote has to be earned, and that telling people "vote for me because vote for me" is never going to be good enough to win an election. Nor is "vote for me because if you don't, you suck".

blinding

Will I Am Not wrote: »

That’s like asking how do you know this lad is a “righty” :pac:

Weren’t the Nazis , National Socialists ?

Hector Savage

^^ That pic, is that Edward Furlong in an old promo shoot for American History X?
Great film btw.

Irish Guitarist

That moron with the mobile and the headphones needs a good kick up the arse.

Next time they're deporting the rapist they should give him a tranquiliser, tie him up, shove him in a suitcase and let the baggage handlers deal with him. https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1020797/baggage-handlers-manchester-airport-viral-video

Danzy

Brian? wrote: »

Jesus, my head hurts.

1. I support their cause: anti fascism. I’ve clarified this multiple times. I don’t support their methods because they are violent. I don’t need a report to know.

ANTIFA do not have a cause, just an excuse.

People who get off on street violence, intimidation and control before heading back to the parents suburban home.

It is an "in group" with its own dynamic, culture and terminology.

Like skinhead gang but for the Middle Class.

Danzy

storker wrote: »

I think one of the biggest failings of the centre and left and even non-loony right has been to dismiss that result as being due to stupidity, "deplorables" etc, rather than do some real self-analysis regarding what it was about more mainstream candidates and policies that made Trump look electable.

It's easy to dismiss it all with a self-satisfied hand-wave as "stupidity", but this is the same electorate that put Obama into the White House twice - were they stupid then too?

They won't do that, generally, they view themselves as holders of a sacred truth, the only reasons someone could disagree with them must be stupidity, bigotry etc.

There are too many activists today that would have been missionary priests roaring at the natives a century ago.

Not all on the Left but enough to be a problem and damage the brand overall.

Look at the election results across Western Europe . The Left is falling away as an electoral force.

storker

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Call it irrational, immoral, immature, whatever you like, but it's an extremely common human emotional response - the "doubling down" phenomenon, IE the more people tell you to do X, the more some people will do Y just out of sheer "you can't tell me what to do and I'm going to throw that in your face" bloody-mindedness.

I think there's certainly an element of this, but I also think it's policy/track record-based. For the average white voter, the message from the left appears to be "you don't matter - minorities matter", from the more centre left it appears to be "you don't matter - unions and public servants matter", from the centre and right, it appears to be "you don't matter - the markets matter". This leaves people ripe for an idea or personality who will come in and say, "yes you do matter - vote for me/Brexit to show it, and I'll do stuff for you". When people know that change isn't going to come from some quarters, I think they're likely to look to where it might come from, because they believe possibility of positive change is better than the certainly of none, however, unlikely or unpalatable the source might be and that's what's helped lead us to Trump and Brexit.

This is what Trump's opponents need to address, instead of fixating on the election dirty tricks. These should of course be investigated, but even if this causes the downfall of Trump, they will still be left with Pence as president, which may be an even more chilling prospect. Better to concentrate on stopping them being elected in the first place, and the way to do that is to earn votes, not cry foul after you've lost.

Tell me how

Danzy wrote:

Look at the election results across Western Europe . The Left is falling away as an electoral force.

Virtually all European governments still held by left leaning parties or coalitions.

If falling away as an electoral force is still holding the power than it just shows the lunacy of some observers.

FTA69

Tell me how wrote: »

Virtually all European governments still held by left leaning parties or coalitions.

If falling away as an electoral force is still holding the power than it just shows the lunacy of some observers.

Are they? England has the Tories, Eastern Europe is pretty much all solidly Right wing. Italy is run by the populist right. France has technocratic conservatives with the far right breathing down their necks. Germany is being run by conservatives, Austria has the far right in government.

Europe in general is being run by conservative parties that have accepted neo-liberal economic consensus, hence the rise of the far right politically.