Got to love the left.

2 Scoops

Brian? wrote: »

Seriously now. Why can’t you debate like an adult? I have never supported Antifa, and never will as long as they use violence to protest.

I am anti fascist though. Are you ?


How do you feel about fascism?

You said you agree with their cause, besides being anti-capitalist, do you agree with them attacking reporters? Why do they cover their faces?

https://twitter.com/anthonyfurey/status/1029046564155805696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1029046564155805696&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D2057901139%26page%3D4

Atoms for Peace

Brian? wrote: »

Even Antifa aren’t an homogeneous group. More of a loose coalition of fringe groups. I disagree with some of their methods, but I agree with their cause. Everyone should be anti fascist.

I feel you’re generalising too much. Like a lot of people do. So it reaches the point where every stupid protest or online outrage is seen as a true representation of how the entire left behave.

Italian fascism wasn't all bad.

Brian?

2 Scoops wrote: »

You said agree with their cause, besides anti-capitalist, do you agree with them attacking reporters? Why do they cover their faces?

]

I don’t support Antifa. Clear enough on the third time around? Post all the links you want, that’s the same answer you’ll get.

I am anti fascist though, I support that cause. What about you?

Brian?

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Italian fascism wasn't all bad.

Yes it was.

2 Scoops

Tell me how wrote: »

You have a problem with the ethics of Hillary and the Clinton foundation but no problem with Russian interaction with Trump Family business, including funding?

It's yet to be determined what happens with Trump / Russia. I do know the Clinton foundation is corrupt and received hundreds of millions from Russia, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and many others while she was in office.

"Cash flowed to the Clinton foundation amid Russian uranium deal"

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-foundation-idUSKBN12Z2SL

"The Clinton Foundation has confirmed it accepted a $1 million gift from Qatar while Hillary Clinton was U.S. secretary of state without informing the State Department, even though she had promised to let the agency review new or significantly increased support from foreign governments."

Don't get me started on ethics and the dozens of scandals over the years.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fobs-hillarys-state-dept-gave-special-attention-friends/story?id=42615379

"In a series of candid email exchanges with top Clinton Foundation officials during the hours after the massive 2010 Haiti earthquake, a senior aide to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton repeatedly gave special attention to those identified by the abbreviations “FOB” (friends of Bill Clinton) or “WJC VIPs” (William Jefferson Clinton VIPs)."

Good flip on Libya!

I mean how could any edumacated person with a gender studies degree not vote for this person instead of Donald Trump? They must be stupoid!

And after lying to the victims families in Benghazi blaming the attack on a video when she knew it was terrorism, she came out with this gem at a congressional hearing.

And here she is at a rally telling people she was met with sniper fire in Bosnia, such a trustworthy person. Trump is so evil and a liar!!!

There's a reason Clinton is hated, and it's not misogyny or ignorance.

2 Scoops

Brian? wrote: »

I don’t support Antifa.

Don't believe you, your posting history says otherwise.

Brian?

2 Scoops wrote: »

Don't believe you, your posting history says otherwise.

No it doesn’t.

Are you going to tell me how you feel about fascism?

hatrickpatrick

Brian? wrote: »

I don’t support Antifa. Clear enough on the third time around? Post all the links you want, that’s the same answer you’ll get.

I am anti fascist though, I support that cause. What about you?

This wilful inability to differentiate between antifa the movement and the simple opposition to fascism is moronic and grating. Much like how many on the left assume that you have to be a feminist, or it means you're not in favour of gender equality.

Both assumptions rest on the faulty standpoint that the group is honest about its cause. Neither group is. Antifa is not just an anti fascist group. Feminism is not just a pro-equality movement. etc. All of these movements stand for far more policy positions, and engage in far more activities, than those they claim to be about, and yet they then attack anyone who doesn't support their movement as someone who doesn't support the stated policy aims.

For example: Feminism by and large supports wide-ranging censorship by mass demand (threatening to boycott hotels hosting anti-abortion meetings in their function rooms is one obvious example). For that reason, I am anti-feminist. However, feminism claims to support gender equality, which I vehemently support. By dishonestly claiming to just be about equality, and not acknowledging that they're actually about "equality + a whole pile of other garbage", they can then utterly disingenuously claim that anyone who identifies as anti-feminist is also anti-equality, and use that claim to totally disregard any legitimate arguments or points being raised.

The same applies in reverse, as well, and that's what's happening here with this antifa debate. antifa does no equal anti fascist, it equals anti fascist plus a whole pile of other bullsh!t. If you don't support the whole pile of other bullsh!t then you don't support antifa, but that does not mean you don't support the principle of being anti-fascist.

2 Scoops

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

To be fair. When someone like the quoted consumes conspiracy theory material. Mix that with an obsession with identity politics. Pepper that with Alt right media. It creates an hilarious combination of idea's and a combative hatred of whatever is different to what he perceives as his 'norm' and perceived victim-hood for having fowl ideas.

Muh conspiracy theories, the DHS are in on it!!

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violence-fbi-242235

"Federal authorities have been warning state and local officials since early 2016 that leftist extremists known as “antifa” had become increasingly confrontational and dangerous, so much so that the Department of Homeland Security formally classified their activities as “domestic terrorist violence,” according to interviews and confidential law enforcement documents obtained by POLITICO."

blinding

Nobody with any sense is missing Hilary .

Brian?

2 Scoops wrote: »

Don't believe you, your posting history says otherwise.

Oh hot damn! You’re going to trawl through my posting history to try to prove your point aren’t you? I love when you do that. It makes you look so rational.

Find a post where I say I support Antifa and how they conduct themselves, go on.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

There's a reason Clinton is hated, and it's not misogyny or ignorance.

Never said it was either. Or that she was perfect, far from it.

But she was still vastly over qualified compared to Trump.

RustyNut

2 Scoops wrote: »

Tell me how wrote: »

You have a problem with the ethics of Hillary and the Clinton foundation but no problem with Russian interaction with Trump Family business, including funding?

It's yet to be determined what happens with Trump / Russia. I do know the Clinton foundation is corrupt and received hundreds of millions from Russia, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and many others while she was in office.

"Cash flowed to the Clinton foundation amid Russian uranium deal"

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-foundation-idUSKBN12Z2SL

"The Clinton Foundation has confirmed it accepted a $1 million gift from Qatar while Hillary Clinton was U.S. secretary of state without informing the State Department, even though she had promised to let the agency review new or significantly increased support from foreign governments."

Don't get me started on ethics and the dozens of scandals over the years.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fobs-hillarys-state-dept-gave-special-attention-friends/story?id=42615379

"In a series of candid email exchanges with top Clinton Foundation officials during the hours after the massive 2010 Haiti earthquake, a senior aide to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton repeatedly gave special attention to those identified by the abbreviations “FOB” (friends of Bill Clinton) or “WJC VIPs” (William Jefferson Clinton VIPs)."

Good flip on Libya!

I mean how could any edumacated person with a gender studies degree not vote for this person instead of Donald Trump? They must be stupoid!

And after lying to the victims families in Benghazi blaming the attack on a video when she knew it was terrorism, she came out with this gem at a congressional hearing.

And here she is at a rally telling people she was met with sniper fire in Bosnia, such a trustworthy person. Trump is so evil and a liar!!!

There's a reason Clinton is hated, and it's not misogyny or ignorance.

What relevance has Clinton's history got in a debate about "the left"?

2 Scoops

Brian? wrote: »

No it doesn’t.

Are you going to tell me how you feel about fascism?

Obviously I'm against fascism. I'm also against communism which these Antifa sewer rats support. I'm pro capitalist. I don't support any group that uses violence to try and achieve their goals. It's that simple.

dav3

2 Scoops wrote: »

There's a reason Clinton is hated, and it's not misogyny or ignorance.

It's crazy how someone so hated managed to get so many more votes than trump. He must be really hated.

Now what has all this whinging about Clinton and anti-fascism got to do with people getting worked up over a daily mail article and convincing themselves an entire plane was full of 'leftists'?

hatrickpatrick

2 Scoops wrote: »

Obviously I'm against fascism. I'm also against communism. I'm pro capitalist. I don't support any group that uses violence to try and achieve their goals. It's that simple.

Neither does Brian, though. Opposing fascism =/= supporting antifa, the movement.

mcmoustache

Brian? wrote: »

Even Antifa aren’t an homogeneous group. More of a loose coalition of fringe groups. I disagree with some of their methods, but I agree with their cause. Everyone should be anti fascist.

Do they even have much of a following over here? I always saw them as a bunch of middle-class crusties who viewed the SWP as too moderate. I don't think they're taken seriously by anyone who matters.

Brian?

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This wilful inability to differentiate between antifa the movement and the simple opposition to fascism is moronic and grating. Much like how many on the left assume that you have to be a feminist, or it means you're not in favour of gender equality.

Both assumptions rest on the faulty standpoint that the group is honest about its cause. Neither group is. Antifa is not just an anti fascist group. Feminism is not just a pro-equality movement. etc. All of these movements stand for far more policy positions, and engage in far more activities, than those they claim to be about, and yet they then attack anyone who doesn't support their movement as someone who doesn't support the stated policy aims.

For example: Feminism by and large supports wide-ranging censorship by mass demand (threatening to boycott hotels hosting anti-abortion meetings in their function rooms is one obvious example). For that reason, I am anti-feminist. However, feminism claims to support gender equality, which I vehemently support. By dishonestly claiming to just be about equality, and not acknowledging that they're actually about "equality + a whole pile of other garbage", they can then utterly disingenuously claim that anyone who identifies as anti-feminist is also anti-equality, and use that claim to totally disregard any legitimate arguments or points being raised.

The same applies in reverse, as well, and that's what's happening here with this antifa debate. antifa does no equal anti fascist, it equals anti fascist plus a whole pile of other bullsh!t. If you don't support the whole pile of other bullsh!t then you don't support antifa, but that does not mean you don't support the principle of being anti-fascist.

Why can’t I say I agree with antifa about fascism. But I don’t agree with how the protest?

That’s hardly a difficult concept. Antifa are a coalition of left wing groups who oppose fascism. If they weren’t violent and behaved in a civil way I’d support them. They don’t, so I won’t. It’s pretty simple.

2 Scoops

RustyNut wrote: »

What relevance has Clinton's history got in a debate about "the left"?

He asked why would people vote Trump over Clinton.

The daily mail is not a source

Brian?

2 Scoops wrote: »

Obviously I'm against fascism. I'm also against communism which these Antifa sewer rats support. I'm pro capitalist. I don't support any group that uses violence to try and achieve their goals. It's that simple.

Some of Antifa are communists. Some aren’t. You don’t seem to know enough about them to not know that.

So we both agree violence is wrong. What has all this nonsense been about then? Why the linked tweets and YouTube videos. I believe you that you don’t approve of violence. Why is that so hard for you?

Sweetemotion

Look at this lefty standing up for women's rights by assaulting a woman.

mcmoustache

Omackeral wrote: »

Antifa and their ilk.

The right-wing media goes on about them a lot but are they actually relevant?


To put it another way, are there any antifa types who have as large an audience and following as say, Sargon, Paul Watson, Alex Jones, Tommy Robinson, Mike Chernovich etc? What I'm getting at is that the likes of antifa are far from mainstream but the wierdos on the right seem to be very popular. While there are extremes on both ends, there is a big difference in mainstream acceptance.

Brian?

mcmoustache wrote: »

Do they even have much of a following over here? I always saw them as a bunch of middle-class crusties who viewed the SWP as too moderate. I don't think they're taken seriously by anyone who matters.

There are no real fascists in Ireland for them to fight. So they all went back to drinking Bovril and smoking rollies

2 Scoops

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Neither does Brian, though. Opposing fascism =/= supporting antifa, the movement.

If he came out and condemned stuff like this I might give it a millisecond thought that he's being honest. They are anti-capitalism anarchists who attack cops, institutions, religious groups and people with opposing political views. If they stuck to the actual neo nazi types maybe they'd garner some sympathy from me.

Franz Von Peppercorn

I’d support anti fa more readily if they marched against the war in Yemen. Or any US military conflict.

Brian?

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Look at this lefty standing up for women's rights by assaulting a woman.

How do you know he’s a “lefty”? Are only “leftys” pro choice now?

Auguste Comte

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Or you just got caught writing garbage and now can't defend them with the facts and reason you claim to possess.

God forbid that someone would post something they couldn't back up, they really would be full of sh1t.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

LOL. You're side believes:


4)That mass unchecked immigration will somehow fix our homeless and healthcare crisis.

You will of course be able to show who on the left claimed that "mass unchecked immigration will somehow fix our homeless and healthcare crisis"?

gw80

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Italian fascism wasn't all bad.

And Oswald Mosley had some good ideas too.

Brian?

2 Scoops wrote: »

If he came out and condemned stuff like this I might give it a millisecond thought that he's being honest. They are anti-capitalism anarchists who attack cops, institutions, religious groups and people with opposing political views. If they stuck to the actual neo nazi types maybe they'd garner some sympathy from me.

What reason do I have to be dishonest?????? Internet credit?

I don’t go looking for videos of Antifa being violent to post and condemn. So what? I don’t post videos of fascists to condemn either.

Violence is wrong. Full stop.