ASTI ballot

doc_17

acequion wrote: »

I'm laughing at you at this stage, your stance is such a joke. Shur what lunacy to suggest corruption or backhanders :pac: Shur that sort of thing never, ever happens in our saintly country.:pac: It would be inconceivable :eek:

I give up on you :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I couldn’t give a s**t.

Some people on this thread are insane. Tune into Gemma O’Doherty and you’ll get all the validation you need. Until the ASTI and INTO actually do anything you aren’t on any higher morale ground or any different from the TUI whilst you are in the PSSA talking the pay rises that are coming your way.

acequion

doc_17 wrote: »

I couldn’t give a s**t.

Some people on this thread are insane. Tune into Gemma O’Doherty and you’ll get all the validation you need. Until the ASTI and INTO actually do anything you aren’t on any higher morale ground or any different from the TUI whilst you are in the PSSA talking the pay rises that are coming your way.

Actually you're the one who's insane. Isn't it great to be right and everyone else wrong.

And it's patently obvious that you don't give a shyt. In fact your attitude singlehandedly embodies that of your pathetic union.

evolving_doors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPIsTKpAoE4

doc_17

I’ll come back and wish you all well when you’re on the picket line. Until then all we’re all in the PSSA

deiseindublin

@doc_17 - do you really feel the TUI are fit for purpose in representing us?

doc_17

deiseindublin wrote: »

@doc_17 - do you really feel the TUI are fit for purpose in representing us?

Our problem isn’t the TUI or ASTI, it’s ICTU. Neither the TUI nor the ASTI strategies thus far have solved the issue. Our LPTs aren’t an issue for ICTU. They don’t have that problem in large numbers elsewhere in the PS and the voting weight of SIPTU and UNITE seals our fate each time and gives the government the cover they need - “oh we have to be fair to the vast majority of PS unions that have accepted the deal” is the line and strategy they roll out.

deiseindublin

So you think TUI did all they could to date? It's not their fault?

(I agree the ICTU is a problem btw, but I don't think you should just bow each time and take it).

doc_17

deiseindublin wrote: »

So you think TUI did all they could to date? It's not their fault?

(I agree the ICTU is a problem btw, but I don't think you should just bow each time and take it).

ASTI didn’t bow and take it last time and where did that get them? That’s how it works. The TUI obviously accepted the deal and ASTI/INTO didn’t. But my point the whole time has been that TUI and ASTI leadership have done nothing different so far to deserve the allegations directed at them from here.

How many more times do you want me to say it? Unless the ASTI repudiate the PSSA and go out on strike then what’s the difference in the unions? And the ASTI won’t go out without the INTO and there’s not a hope the INTO will go out.

Sir123

doc_17 wrote: »

ASTI didn’t bow and take it last time and where did that get them? That’s how it works. The TUI obviously accepted the deal and ASTI/INTO didn’t. But my point the whole time has been that TUI and ASTI leadership have done nothing different so far to deserve the allegations directed at them from here.

How many more times do you want me to say it? Unless the ASTI repudiate the PSSA and go out on strike then what’s the difference in the unions? And the ASTI won’t go out without the INTO and there’s not a hope the INTO will go out.

The point is the TUI have no backbone at all. TUI voted for Lansdowne Road agreement, so did INTO. However, as we all can see now, ASTI and INTO have said NO at this current stage. Whether they do something now is a different story but their members have said NO unlike TUI who always seem to be fighting for a recommendation in ballots, be it directly or indirectly. It's a totally fragmented union that does not adequately represent 2nd level teachers.

What really bugs me is the TUI yesterday publishing that letter highlighting that they still have a strike mandate. TUI have never stood up for teachers nor basic conditions. They have a history of that. How would they be any different now? Again, no backbone.

It was the ASTI's industrial action in 2016 that secured some sort of an increase for LPTs. I can tell you that it wasn't the TUI or INTO sitting down with fantastic Minister Bruton that made it happen.

I feel sorry for TUI members on this forum who do not feel represented by their union. Some individuals don't have a choice based on negotiating rights in ETBs which is quite unfair imo.

deiseindublin

You don't seem eager to answer my very straightforward question, do you think TUI did all they could? Ignore ASTI etc. It's basically a yes or no answer.

joebloggs32

Sir123 wrote: »

The point is the TUI have no backbone at all. TUI voted for Lansdowne Road agreement, so did INTO. However, as we all can see now, ASTI and INTO have said NO at this current stage. Whether they do something now is a different story but their members have said NO unlike TUI who always seem to be fighting for a recommendation in ballots, be it directly or indirectly. It's a totally fragmented union that does not adequately represent 2nd level teachers.

What really bugs me is the TUI yesterday publishing that letter highlighting that they still have a strike mandate. TUI have never stood up for teachers nor basic conditions. They have a history of that. How would they be any different now? Again, no backbone.

It was the ASTI's industrial action in 2016 that secured some sort of an increase for LPTs. I can tell you that it wasn't the TUI or INTO sitting down with fantastic Minister Bruton that made it happen.

I feel sorry for TUI members on this forum who do not feel represented by their union. Some individuals don't have a choice based on negotiating rights in ETBs which is quite unfair imo.

There is nothing to stop teachers in the ETB system joining the Asti. There are probably hundreds already working in ETB's where amalgamations have occured. Its no diiferent to the many teachers in the voluntary sector who now have joined the TUI.

doc_17

deiseindublin wrote: »

You don't seem eager to answer my very straightforward question, do you think TUI did all they could? Ignore ASTI etc. It's basically a yes or no answer.

Your question was answered. I’ll answer it again for you. When ASTI and INTO go out out on strike it’s plainly obvious that TUI won’t have done as much as that should it happen. But it won’t happen. I know that, and all of you know that too. So everyone needs to calm down a bit about this mighty INTO and ASTI vote. Both Unions are in the PSSA along with the TUI. It matters not one bit that they voted no if they stay there.

doc_17

Sir123 wrote: »

The point is the TUI have no backbone at all. TUI voted for Lansdowne Road agreement, so did INTO. However, as we all can see now, ASTI and INTO have said NO at this current stage. Whether they do something now is a different story but their members have said NO unlike TUI who always seem to be fighting for a recommendation in ballots, be it directly or indirectly. It's a totally fragmented union that does not adequately represent 2nd level teachers.

What really bugs me is the TUI yesterday publishing that letter highlighting that they still have a strike mandate. TUI have never stood up for teachers nor basic conditions. They have a history of that. How would they be any different now? Again, no backbone.

It was the ASTI's industrial action in 2016 that secured some sort of an increase for LPTs. I can tell you that it wasn't the TUI or INTO sitting down with fantastic Minister Bruton that made it happen.

I feel sorry for TUI members on this forum who do not feel represented by their union. Some individuals don't have a choice based on negotiating rights in ETBs which is quite unfair imo.

ASTI climbed down in 2016 from their brave and worthy industrial action having secured not a single concession from the government and losing 1000 members.

acequion

doc_17 wrote: »

ASTI climbed down in 2016 from their brave and worthy industrial action having secured not a single concession from the government and losing 1000 members.

Yes and we all know exactly where those members went!!

SligoBrewer

doc_17 wrote: »

ASTI climbed down in 2016 from their brave and worthy industrial action having secured not a single concession from the government and losing 1000 members.

Oh dear.

deiseindublin

doc_17 wrote: »

Your question was answered. I’ll answer it again for you. When ASTI and INTO go out out on strike it’s plainly obvious that TUI won’t have done as much as that should it happen. But it won’t happen. I know that, and all of you know that too. So everyone needs to calm down a bit about this mighty INTO and ASTI vote. Both Unions are in the PSSA along with the TUI. It matters not one bit that they voted no if they stay there.

No, you still haven't answered my question.

You're determined to talk about the ASTI. I want to talk about my union, the one that supposed to be representing me, the TUI.

doc_17

deiseindublin wrote: »

No, you still haven't answered my question.

You're determined to talk about the ASTI. I want to talk about my union, the one that supposed to be representing me, the TUI.

Your question was answered. Until ASTI strike TUI have done as much as ASTI. A no vote is meaningless without Industrial action. Industrial action won’t happen. TUI and ASTI are both in PSSA so my man in point is that TUI don’t deserve the dung that’s being throw at them here. Until ASTI go out on strike. Then people can eulogise about how much superior the ASTI are.

acequion

Give up folks :rolleyes: Sometimes there really is no point at all in trying to put plain questions to or reason with certain people. In life or on the Internet. Banging your head off a wall comes to mind. Time to hit ignore.

SligoBrewer

acequion wrote: »

Give up folks :rolleyes: Sometimes there really is no point at all in trying to put plain questions to or reason with certain people. In life or on the Internet. Banging your head off a wall comes to mind. Time to hit ignore.

I swear I must be imagining the pay I lost on strike, the repudiation of LRA1 and the backstabbing of the TUI in the subsequent November pay talks.

doc_17

SligoBrewer wrote: »

I swear I must be imagining the pay I lost on strike, the repudiation of LRA1 and the backstabbing of the TUI in the subsequent November pay talks.

Yes, but it achieved nothing. Same deal as the one the TUI and INTO accepted.

deiseindublin

Why do you think the ASTI had to climb down? Why do you think it achieved nothing?

I'll give you 3 letters to guess with (T / U / I).

doc_17

yeah, just ignore those you don’t agree with ðŸ‘🻠Like 47% of your own membership.

doc_17

deiseindublin wrote: »

Why do you think the ASTI had to climb down? Why do you think it achieved nothing?

I'll give you 3 letters to guess with (T / U / I).

Thanks for agreeing with me. All these people in here that seem to that the action taken by the ASTI last time achieved something. It didn’t.

It’s terrible that there are unequal pay scales. I voted against the deal. But ICTU have our number and without them nothing will change until more of their members are affected.

My main grumbling with the tone of this thread is the lack of respect for a Union that went out many times side by side within ASTI whilst INTO did nothing. Now all of a sudden INTO are wonderful and TUI are to be slandered. And yet nobody has actually done anything different so far. All Unions are in PSSA.

Now, I’ll bid you all farewell. If anyone reallly wants to continue the discussion with me they can PM me.

Bobtheman

What Industrial action has TUI taken last few years?? INTO wont vote to strike -lets face reality here folks.

In the end you can only trust your own Union. A ballot should be put to all three unions suggesting withdrawal from Croke Park hours-that might pass. Anything else wont float

SligoBrewer

Bobtheman wrote: »

What Industrial action has TUI taken last few years?? INTO wont vote to strike -lets face reality here folks.

In the end you can only trust your own Union. A ballot should be put to all three unions suggesting withdrawal from Croke Park hours-that might pass. Anything else wont float

Last industrial action was the JC strikes,
They went on a few lunchtime protests last year.

deiseindublin

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Last industrial action was the JC strikes,
lunchtime protests

I never quite got the purpose of the lunchtime 'protests'. That's some statement from the TUI - they felt so aggrieved about issue XYZ that teachers missed their lunch a few times? Wow, great campaign, go TUI.

evolving_doors

deiseindublin wrote: »

I never quite got the purpose of the lunchtime 'protests'. That's some statement from the TUI - they felt so aggrieved about issue XYZ that teachers missed their lunch a few times? Wow, great campaign, go TUI.

Actually I think it did serve a very clever purpose. In a lot schools -maybe not so much in the mixed union ones- during the lunchtime protest it highlighted who was and wasn't in a union. In our school a lot of the NQT's were left peering out the window at the union staff who went out to the gates. I think it really started them thinking about why the union might matter and how it affected them. It's easy to stay within a crowd and let everyone else do the hard lifting, or stay at home in the scratcher when the pickets were on.

As for discommoding the public:rolleyes: zilch!
The public were delighted with our very accommodating protest and gave us loads of friendly beeps on the way past (on their way to brunch, whilst little Tommy was safe in school). That's not really a great way to get government to act. End result... kicked into talks, tea and sandwiches.

Sir123

Does anyone know when CEC are meeting? Still no news.

acequion

Sir123 wrote: »

Does anyone know when CEC are meeting? Still no news.

Not until late January,it seems,which would be the normal scheduled meeting. That makes sense though,as ASTI can't do anything without INTO.

Bobtheman

I hope CEC comes up with a plan or SC. The INTO wont strike-we need to work from there