ASTI ballot

Sir123

This thread has been a bit dormant for quite some time so here it goes..... Is it just me or is there nothing happening? I know CEC are meeting Saturday but it seems everything has gone under the carpet since the 'vote' in December. It seems as if unions are waiting for 'talks' to last until May before summer hits and hey we're back to square one again.

I am really considering dropping my union membership seeing the latest hike in membership fees. The lack of inaction from Into in particular leaves me believe that we won't act ourselves again. Such a pity..

Benicetomonty

Sir123 wrote: »

This thread has been a bit dormant for quite some time so here it goes..... Is it just me or is there nothing happening? I know CEC are meeting Saturday but it seems everything has gone under the carpet since the 'vote' in December. It seems as if unions are waiting for 'talks' to last until May before summer hits and hey we're back to square one again.

I am really considering dropping my union membership seeing the latest hike in membership fees. The lack of inaction from Into in particular leaves me believe that we won't act ourselves again. Such a pity..

The ASTI wont be doing until the INTO make up their mind, which wont be anytime soon as theyve conceded to yet another talking shop with the govt while they desperately try to come up with an idea that doesnt involve taking industrial action. TUI have already accepted the deal so their recent comments about being able to activate a previous mandate re pay inequality that would allow them to take action is absolute rubbish by all accounts.

CEC may try to get a directive on SLAR meetings (insisting they take place outside of school hours, as agreed by everyone involved in the Junior Cycle talks) through during the meeting but Id be astonished if there was anything proposed or certainly passed that could even remotely be considered a threat to our full cooperation with the PSSA.

km79

[QUOTE=Benicetomonty;109232985

CEC may try to get a directive on SLAR meetings (insisting they take place outside of school hours[/B], as agreed by everyone involved in the Junior Cycle talks) .[/QUOTE]

Why would they do that ?

evolving_doors

As predicted...Nurses get the steal.... game over... see ye all next September for Deja vu voting.

Benicetomonty

km79 wrote: »

Why would they do that ?

Because, by arranging slars inside school hours, either predominantly or totally, principals are not abiding by the text of the agreement. This hasnt gone unnoticed by either union. The TUI, however, (or the govt, JMB, JCT...etc) dont seem to have an issue with what constitutes a breach of the agreement. The ASTI do.

km79

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Because, by arranging slars inside school hours, either predominantly or totally, principals are not abiding by the text of the agreement. This hasnt gone unnoticed by either union. The TUI, however, (or the govt, JMB, JCT...etc) dont seem to have an issue with what constitutes a breach of the agreement. The ASTI do.

I am confused.
You are saying the union WANT to get teachers to hold SLAR meetings after school????

Benicetomonty

km79 wrote: »

I am confused.
You are saying the union WANT to get teachers to hold SLAR meetings after school????

Morto. Outside. Outside. Apologies

To clarify: as per agreement, Principals should be arranging slars inside schooltime. They arent. ASTI are looking at establishing a directive that prohibits members from attending slars that are not totally inside hours.

km79

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Morto. Outside. Outside. Apologies

To clarify: as per agreement, Principals should be arranging slars inside schooltime. They arent. ASTI are looking at establishing a directive that prohibits members from attending slars that are not totally inside hours.

I was thinking!!!!!!
But nothing would surprise me at this stage

SligoBrewer

Good move yesterday from CEC,
Now we wait on the INTO.

If ever it was unclear what union leadership cared about LPTs, it’s crystal clear now.

Sir123

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Good move yesterday from CEC,
Now we wait on the INTO.

If ever it was unclear what union leadership cared about LPTs, it’s crystal clear now.

Couldn't agree more. INTO are weak and I'm not too sure when they anticipate to ballot their members, if they even do at all. Hopefully they see that we do have their back if they choose to ballot, in contrast to two years ago when they let us down with TUI and left us out standing alone in the cold.

We need the INTO with us and I'm glad CEC has put this motion forward. Patiently waiting on INTO now. School year getting closer to an end and with pres, oral and practicals coming up, this is the time or year the Gov and DES would hate disruption.

judeboy101

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Good move yesterday from CEC,
Now we wait on the INTO.

If ever it was unclear what union leadership cared about LPTs, it’s crystal clear now.

What happened?

wirelessdude01

SligoBrewer wrote:

Good move yesterday from CEC, Now we wait on the INTO.

As a member of the INTO I suspect you'll be left waiting.

Icsics

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

As a member of the INTO I suspect you'll be left waiting.

It's a pity the INTO are so weak, any day now they'll announce the 'talks' have offered some crumbs, that they'll rush to accept

Mardy Bum

judeboy101 wrote: »

What happened?

If the INTO ballot, the ASTI will also ballot. If they don't, we won't either.

acequion

There have always been and still are some great people on ASTI CEC. People who are willing to fight for teachers' rights regardless of the risks. And that philosophy still holds sway with just over 50% of CEC,a figure borne out in all important recent national ballots. Just under 50% on CEC and nationally don't want to do anything. Why? Fear,I guess, but what was ever achieved by fear?

Then you have the other unions and you'd wonder what goes on in their executives. And don't forget the exorbitant salaries of general secretaries
and ask yourself whose side they're really on?? We really do live in a rotten little country.:mad:

But,what always amazes me is how acquiescent the foot soldiers are. Because at the end of the day it's the members who must force change. It's totally not acceptable that INTO are not balloting for strike and why aren't their members demanding a ballot?

The only way to wield influence is to get inside the camp and fight. So I'm aiming this post, not so much at the usual posters who post here as many of those are activists anyway. I'm aiming at the many who just read and don't get involved. To appeal to you guys to take ownership of your union. Go to meetings,get onto CEC and agitate for your rights! If enough people only did that this country wouldn't be the cosy, corrupt little club it is.

It is the ideal time to get behind the fight for pay equality. Nurses are agitating and there is a lot of discontent out there. And it's also a good time economically. Because if things go even a tiny bit belly up with Brexit, you can forget it.

I so hope the opportunity doesn't pass us by,but looking at the overall complacency of ordinary workers, I'm not very optimistic.

doc_17

Nurses must have been offered something if they have been in there for over 6 hours.

kala85

A lot of those lads on the cec and the head office are sitting on the union gravy train.

It suits them to sit there and do nothing and then they cannot be accused when something goes wrong.

Too many unions and union officials in the pockets of ictu and in turn the government. Look at the lack of action from unions on fempi legislation for example.

Look at the way Sheila Nunan is being picked to run for labour in the European elections.

Until proper honest representatives are on the cec, the union is at nothing.

acequion

kala85 wrote: »

A lot of those lads on the cec and the head office are sitting on the union gravy train.

It suits them to sit there and do nothing and then they cannot be accused when something goes wrong.

Too many unions and union officials in the pockets of ictu and in turn the government. Look at the lack of action from unions on fempi legislation for example.

Look at the way Sheila Nunan is being picked to run for labour in the European elections.

Until proper honest representatives are on the cec, the union is at nothing.

Completely agree and I find it terribly depressing.:(

But my point is that apathy and complacency from grassroots members solves absolutely nothing. A united show of people power is what's needed and for that the ordinary trade union members must step up. When they don't but keep whingeing anyway, they essentially have mainly themselves to blame.

wirelessdude01

acequion wrote:

But,what always amazes me is how acquiescent the foot soldiers are. Because at the end of the day it's the members who must force change. It's totally not acceptable that INTO are not balloting for strike and why aren't their members demanding a ballot?

I'll tell you as someone active in the INTO the reason is because we know it would be damn near impossible to get a 2/3 majority in favour of strike action and if it were achieved it would be on a woefully low turnout which would render it meaningless.

You know you're fcuked when you hear people talking about teaching as a vocation at a union meeting and telling others to think of the children as happened at my recent branch meeting.

INTO membership is so female orientated the above feeling is very strong.

acequion

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

You know you're fcuked when you hear people talking about teaching as a vocation at a union meeting and telling others to think of the children as happened at my recent branch meeting.

:eek::eek:

That kind of people deserve all the crap thrown at them imo. The trouble is their spinelessness destroys the morale of the decent ones who have way more to offer both the profession and their fellow workers.

Fair play to you for trying to do your bit. What the likes of the above are even doing at a union meeting beggars belief. I'd have to have a vomit bucket if I had to listen to them.:mad:

doc_17

So, will the nurses face the same draconian penalties that were imposed on the ASTI? I would be 99% certain they won’t.

acequion

doc_17 wrote: »

So, will the nurses face the same draconian penalties that were imposed on the ASTI? I would be 99% certain they won’t.

Why do you think that? They're up against a tough nut,just as we were. One that's nearly impossible to crack but which might as long as they don't.

Will they hold their nerve though? Will they be divided and conquered? All remains to be seen.

doc_17

acequion wrote: »

Why do you think that? They're up against a tough nut,just as we were. One that's nearly impossible to crack but which might as long as they don't.

Will they hold their nerve though? Will they be divided and conquered? All remains to be seen.

I would think that the gov have a view that teachers aren’t liked and didn’t have public support. Not giving the nurses what they want is one thing, but cutting their pay, freezing increments etc. Is another thing entirely. It could bring the government down as it would likely entrench the position of the nurses.

wirelessdude01

doc_17 wrote:

I would think that the gov have a view that teachers aren’t liked and didn’t have public support. Not giving the nurses what they want is one thing, but cutting their pay, freezing increments etc. Is another thing entirely. It could bring the government down as it would likely entrench the position of the nurses.

Teaching unions have to be watching that aspect of it closely. Would the govt be bold enough to treat different unions in different ways with regards to repudiation of a collective agreement?

doc_17

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Teaching unions have to be watching that aspect of it closely. Would the govt be bold enough to treat different unions in different ways with regards to repudiation of a collective agreement?

I would say they most definitely would.

wirelessdude01

doc_17 wrote:

I would say they most definitely would.

If they did, could the teaching unions have a case legally?

acequion

doc_17 wrote: »

I would think that the gov have a view that teachers aren’t liked and didn’t have public support. Not giving the nurses what they want is one thing, but cutting their pay, freezing increments etc. Is another thing entirely. It could bring the government down as it would likely entrench the position of the nurses.

Disagree. Think you're overestimating the power of nurses and underestimating that of teachers. There's a large section of the general public who don't support any strike because it inconveniences them. Irish me feinism. And though yes nurses do have more public sympathy than teachers, that won't last long if this thing escalates. It also suits the Govt to spin the myth that teachers aren't liked. Which isn't necessarily true. Now I could be totally wrong but I can't see the nurses strike having the potential to topple the Govt.

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

If they did, could the teaching unions have a case legally?

I would certainly imagine so. It's a one size fits all agreement,so same crumbs,same penalties.

doc_17

acequion wrote: »

Disagree. Think you're overestimating the power of nurses and underestimating that of teachers. There's a large section of the general public who don't support any strike because it inconveniences them. Irish me feinism. And though yes nurses do have more public sympathy than teachers, that won't last long if this thing escalates. It also suits the Govt to spin the myth that teachers aren't liked. Which isn't necessarily true. Now I could be totally wrong but I can't see the nurses strike having the potential to topple the Govt.



I would certainly imagine so. It's a one size fits all agreement,so same crumbs,same penalties.

FF were calling for the gov to meet the nurses. There is no appetite to apply FEMPI to them. But time will tell!

Bobtheman

kala85 wrote: »

A lot of those lads on the cec and the head office are sitting on the union gravy train.

It suits them to sit there and do nothing and then they cannot be accused when something goes wrong.

Too many unions and union officials in the pockets of ictu and in turn the government. Look at the lack of action from unions on fempi legislation for example.

Look at the way Sheila Nunan is being picked to run for labour in the European elections.

Until proper honest representatives are on the cec, the union is at nothing.

Union gravy train ? Was on CEC for years. Got thirty euro for my Saturday. Which was to cover a 20 mile journey and food. An oxo cube would be a better description
I think raking over past a bad idea. Blaming head office a bad idea. SC which was all elected played it poorly November 2017. Had no plan. Let's all move on

ahnowbrowncow

Bobtheman wrote: »

Union gravy train ? Was on CEC for years. Got thirty euro for my Saturday. Which was to cover a 20 mile journey and food. An oxo cube would be a better description
I think raking over past a bad idea. Blaming head office a bad idea. SC which was all elected played it poorly November 2017. Had no plan. Let's all move on

Oxo cube train doesn't really roll off the tongue though