Star Wars: The Mandalorian [** Spoilers **] [Disney+] (US Pace)

Parsnips

Foxtrol wrote: »

This might be the case but I don't think this argument is nearly as strong as it was pre-Mandalorian.

Remember this is the same company that forfeited hundreds of millions of dollars in sales from this show by not having Baby Yoda merchandise in the stores the day after the 1st episode it was in aired. It was months before any official merchandise hit the stores - all because they didn't want to spoil the reveal.

I'd guess that is a much much larger potential hit to profits than the likely relatively small incremental additional sales that would be driven solely from Baby Yoda appearing season 3.

Im sure they taught. " ah yeah., he is cute we will sell plenty of Baby Yoda merch" but I doubt they taught it was gonna be the stratospheric demand.
At the time they were still worried if the TV series would go well or not"

Need a Username

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I can't see Baby Yoda not being in season 3 for the simple reason the merch sales must be in the tens if not hundreds of millions there is no way they don't use Baby Yoda in season 3

Grogu is out of Mando’s life for years - or at least a few seasons.

The merchandise can still continue but that has a limited life span anyway - though I suspect Grogu has more shelf life than porgs and BB-8.

Maybe Grogu will get a series of live action action shorts?

Foxtrol

Parsnips wrote: »

Im sure they taught. " ah yeah., he is cute we will sell plenty of Baby Yoda merch" but I doubt they taught it was gonna be the stratospheric demand.
At the time they were still worried if the TV series would go well or not"

If the show didn't do well then they'd have lost basically all merchandising possibilities for Grogu - you're not selling much merchandise several months later for a side character in a show that is widely hates. They also didn't use him in the advertising which would have definitely interested a lot of people in advance.

Even if we disagree on the merchandising value they put on risk, I don't think it can be disputed that Disney took the decision to put the reveal of the show above the merchandising dollars. I don't see why that can't be the case again when Grogu is pretty much holding back the show going anywhere new - especially as I'm pretty doubtful on his merchandising value changing much if he didn't appear in the 3rd season.

OptimusTractor

Hopefully some of the money is invested in improving the Dark Stormtroopers.

Tony EH

Need a Username wrote: »

You seem to be a very angry person.

Which means you seems to have not understood some of the lessons that the Star Wars story teaches.

It has nothing to do with "anger", or "projection", or being "scared" of casting women in a particular role. It's the inane limitation of a trope character that I am discussing, because that is what Cara Dune was. There was nothing to her but "strong bird that beats people up". She had no actual character and no attempt at writing anything beyond the most dull minded and simplistic rendition of "strong female character". A term I didn't make up BTW, and one who's demerits have been discussed within film criticism many times before.

I happen to respond better to well written characters in movies and TV shows, irrespective of their sex, and while 'The Mandalorian' or Star Wars certainly isn't the place to regularly find such things, the character of Cara Dune still sticks out like a sore thumb. Although, to be fair, she isn't a 5ft nothing, 60lb, girl that's beating everyone up around her.

If I appeared irked, it's because the discussion points are being ignored in favour of hurling cheap and lazy accusations.

Tony EH

Homelander wrote: »

I really am not getting the logic here.

Unless I am reading it wrong, his issue with that the character exists solely as a weak cliche, with no depth, no nuance, no charisma, no great acting skills behind the character.

A role and character that just exists because it ticks a box, and it would be equally the same if the character was Karl Dune and he was a meat-head of limited acting ability, little charisma, no real screen presence and no script behind him.

I mean, most of those "strong man" cliches work for exactly those reasons, because there is some degree of talent, limited as it can often be, charisma, or script behind them, sometimes a combination of all those factors.

A great example is Dave Bautista as Drax in Guardians of the Galaxy. He is that "strong man" cliche, but he's got an incredible script behind him that gel exceptionally well with his acting ability/methods to bring the character to life.

Don't get me wrong, I actually kinda like Gina Carano, but let's not pretend the character is anything other than a wafer thin, poorly acted inclusion that's based on "we need an ass-kicking character" without having bothered to give the role any depth.

Possibly I have it all wrong and the thought of a woman in a strong role "scares and angers" him.

No, you've roughly grasped what I am on about.

As for women in "strong" roles, what annoys me (albeit mildly) about that current application of that, is that it's often just reduced down to its most dull and mind numbing level. I.E. "strong" just means knocking the shit out of people, mostly blokes, that are twice their size.

A "Strong" character should mean a strongly written character. Not just someone that can go toe to toe with men in a physical fight.

For instance, Carol in 'The Walking Dead' is a strong female character in its best sense. The course of the show has seen her evolve and become someone that has learnt to deal with her predicament and environment. It has also left her very damaged, too, and she's not just a "beat everyone in the room" girl power trope.

In addition, the best character in 'Game of Thrones' was Aria Stark, another strongly written female character, who's story was probably the most interesting to follow in the entire series.

Now, arguably, Cara Dune never had enough in her to develop with the nuance that Carol Peltier or Aria Stark did. She was limited in her appearances, and I'd also argue that the writers never intended her to be much more than what she was. Plus, Carano's acting ability simply wouldn't have enabled a situation whereby such growth would advance in any case.

Tony EH

Relikk wrote: »

Therein lies the problem with The Mandalorian as the title character has been completely overshadowed by Grogu, and if they had plans to write him out of a season I'm sure that's thrown out of the window now. The internet and social media being what it is, will be full of questions and toxic criticism about where Grogu is and why he's not in it. They're not going to risk that, and the potential monetary gains you mentioned.

I think there was always going to be a point where Grogu (I still can't get used to that name) was going to be handed off. While he was the central quest for the main character, he was also a burden to the character as well, and needed to be put aside on too many occasions. The Mando, too often, needed a babysitter while he zipped off on someone's side quest promise.

The dilemma for the series' producers now is dealing with the inevitable loss of viewers that will result from that. Already my wife and her friends have lost interest because "Baby Yoda" is now gone. He was a big draw for some people. A lot of whom never gave a toss about Star Wars before. :pac:

Tony EH

Foxtrol wrote: »

I don't know how anyone can read that and not see an underlying issue there

Again with the cheap accusations.

Need a Username

Tony EH wrote: »

It has nothing to do with "anger", or "projection", or being "scared" of casting women in a particular role. It's the inane limitation of a trope character that I am discussing, because that is what Cara Dune was. There was nothing to her but "strong bird that beats people up". She had no actual character and no attempt at writing anything beyond the most dull minded and simplistic rendition of "strong female character". A term I didn't make up BTW, and one who's demerits have been discussed within film criticism many times before.

I happen to respond better to well written characters in movies and TV shows, irrespective of their sex, and while 'The Mandalorian' or Star Wars certainly isn't the place to regularly find such things, the character of Cara Dune still sticks out like a sore thumb. Although, to be fair, she isn't a 5ft nothing, 60lb, girl that's beating everyone up around her.

If I appeared irked, it's because the discussion points are being ignored in favour of hurling cheap and lazy accusations.

Your comments are angry and you are ranting about women. So being angry and scared do have something to do with it.

pixelburp

Mod: move the conversation on guys. Take it to PM but I think at this stage everyone has said their peace.

Parsnips

Foxtrol wrote: »

If the show didn't do well then they'd have lost basically all merchandising possibilities for Grogu - you're not selling much merchandise several months later for a side character in a show that is widely hates. They also didn't use him in the advertising which would have definitely interested a lot of people in advance.

Even if we disagree on the merchandising value they put on risk, I don't think it can be disputed that Disney took the decision to put the reveal of the show above the merchandising dollars. I don't see why that can't be the case again when Grogu is pretty much holding back the show going anywhere new - especially as I'm pretty doubtful on his merchandising value changing much if he didn't appear in the 3rd season.

Maybe Im reading this wrong....Your saying that they should have used Baby Yoda (S1) in advertising to attract more viewers and in so doing.......... actually ruin the reveal. If that is what your saying you are not on the same planet as Me or millions of other SW lovers. WOW WOW WOW
Also how is Grogu (S2) holding back the show. Did you miss the pay off at the end there in season 2.
Im absolutley baffled mate.

robinph

If they had revealed baby yoda beforehand then nobody would have been interested in Mando and wouldn't have bought into his character. It was the following him through the first episode quest and then the WTF moment at the end which sold both baby yoda and Mando as characters.

Need a Username

Some people want more spoilers in trailers?

I didn’t start watching Mandolorian until a few weeks after its launch in Ireland and somehow I managed to avoid these spoilers that others think are necessary. I had seen mention of Baby Yoda and some imagery (of merchandise I think, nothing from the show itself) and thought it was actually a Yoda merchandise line.

I also saw no spoilers for the appearance of Luke even though I was weeks behind everyone else.

I consider not knowing about both of these a good thing. Don’t understand why people would think it is a bad thing.

CramCycle

Need a Username wrote: »

Some people want more spoilers in trailers?

There is an oddly large number of people who love to know what's going to happen before it does. Don't get me wrong, I love hypothesizing and being wrong or right but I have friends who will knowingly read spoilers online, who don't mind (and Sky are the worst for this) trailers that show you big plot points or twists. Hell, all the kids in my sons ager brackets watch s most video games they play through on youtube before they play it. It's bizarre. I usually turn off american TV shows now when the credits hit as so many of them have that "next week on"....

This said, I had seen baby yoda before I watched The Mandolorian, but didn't pay attention so thankfully didn't spoil anything.

Foxtrol

Parsnips wrote: »

Maybe Im reading this wrong....Your saying that they should have used Baby Yoda (S1) in advertising to attract more viewers and in so doing.......... actually ruin the reveal. If that is what your saying you are not on the same planet as Me or millions of other SW lovers. WOW WOW WOW

No, I'm not promoting that approach at all. My points were to counter previous poster's claims about Disney. It is not what I wanted Disney to do but what Disney would have have done if their claims were accurate.

The first claim was that merchandise sales always drive Disney's creative decisions - where I pointed out how Disney likely gave up hundreds of millions of dollars in those sales to avoid spoiling the Grogu reveal.

The second claim was that Disney was worried about the success of the show in the run up to it - where I pointed to the fact they would have been more aggressive with advertising if they were concerned people weren't going to watch. Their approach to advertising showed they were completely confident in what they had and how successful it would be.

Also how is Grogu (S2) holding back the show. Did you miss the pay off at the end there in season 2.
Im absolutley baffled mate.

I'm on the record here of saying how much I enjoyed the payoff at the end of season 2. Having said that, if Grogu arrives back in episode 1 of season 3 I don't know how you can say it wouldn't hold the show back. Every episode has to focus around him caring for and protecting Grogu or else finding the right babysitter for him before Mando can do other things. That isn't a negative for the show so far but with Grogu there I don't see how it can move forward. I'm very much open to hearing how you believe this could be gotten around.

Foxtrol

robinph wrote: »

If they had revealed baby yoda beforehand then nobody would have been interested in Mando and wouldn't have bought into his character. It was the following him through the first episode quest and then the WTF moment at the end which sold both baby yoda and Mando as characters.

Agreed, that was my original point. Disney put the story above potential merchandise sales so it is wrong to claim the opposite will be the main driver for their decisions for season 3.

Need a Username wrote: »

Some people want more spoilers in trailers?

Who is saying this? If this is targeted at me, I don't watch anything aside from the first trailer for a new show or movie so I'm not spoiled.

Need a Username

CramCycle wrote: »

There is an oddly large number of people who love to know what's going to happen before it does. Don't get me wrong, I love hypothesizing and being wrong or right but I have friends who will knowingly read spoilers online, who don't mind (and Sky are the worst for this) trailers that show you big plot points or twists. Hell, all the kids in my sons ager brackets watch s most video games they play through on youtube before they play it. It's bizarre. I usually turn off american TV shows now when the credits hit as so many of them have that "next week on"....

This said, I had seen baby yoda before I watched The Mandolorian, but didn't pay attention so thankfully didn't spoil anything.

I had forgot this until reading your post - I have a brother in law reads everything about a movie’s story before watching.

At first I thought it was that he was just checking for profanity, sex, and whatever offends his Christian beliefs but it turns out that it was mainly to know everything that happens first. I have asked why but the response was beyond me.

I was weeks behind in season 2 and don’t know how I got to the finale without a spoiler.

At least half the deaths in Walking Dead have been by reading unrelated articles online. The who dies, not the circumstances so that is something

Agent Coulson

Hasbro has also stopped making Cara Dune action figures that were in the works.

Agent Coulson

Looks like the sacking was coming for a long time.

Carano say she was banned from doing press for season 2 due to her social media out put.

Still really bad form from Lucasfilm not to tell her face to face that she was fired if of course she is being honest about only finding out on social media.



Gina Carano Learned About ‘Mandalorian’ Firing On Social

Gina Carano, who Lucasfilm deemed “was no longer an employee”, following The Mandalorian actress’ controversial social media posts, comparing being conservative in America to the persecution of Jews in Nazi Germany, exclaimed in a recent interview with journalist Bari Weiss, that she learned of her firing from the hit Disney+ series “through social media, like everyone else.”

Carano also told the former New York Times and Wall Street Journal alum, that Disney barred the Cara Dune actress from doing any season 2 press following her social media mockery of pronoun usage at a time when many are respecting inclusivity and non-binary identities.

“Earlier on last year before The Mandalorian came out, they wanted me to use their exact wording for an apology over pronoun usage. I declined and offered a statement in my own words. I made clear I wanted nothing to do with mocking the transgender community, and was just drawing attention to the abuse of the mob in forcing people to put pronouns in their bio,” Carano said in a recent interview.......

https://deadline.com/2021/02/gina-carano-the-mandalorian-firing-actress-responds-social-media-1234694755/

Tony EH

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Hasbro has also stopped making Cara Dune action figures that were in the works.

That might have something to do with image rights issues.

Foxtrol

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Still really bad form from Lucasfilm not to tell her face to face that she was fired if of course she is being honest about only finding out on social media.

She wasn't fired though, she wasn't a permanent character and they decided they had no plans to take her back. They probably wanted to give her some wiggle room to either change her ways or dig herself into a deeper hole.

Given how she has tried to turn herself into a martyr, she has proved the Disney approach to be right.

Tony EH wrote: »

That might have something to do with image rights issues.

Very much doubt this, there is absolutely no way actors gain their image rights as the character after their Star Wars contract ends.

Need a Username

Foxtrol wrote: »

No, I'm not promoting that approach at all. My points were to counter previous poster's claims about Disney. It is not what I wanted Disney to do but what Disney would have have done if their claims were accurate.

The first claim was that merchandise sales always drive Disney's creative decisions - where I pointed out how Disney likely gave up hundreds of millions of dollars in those sales to avoid spoiling the Grogu reveal.

The second claim was that Disney was worried about the success of the show in the run up to it - where I pointed to the fact they would have been more aggressive with advertising if they were concerned people weren't going to watch. Their approach to advertising showed they were completely confident in what they had and how successful it would be.



I'm on the record here of saying how much I enjoyed the payoff at the end of season 2. Having said that, if Grogu arrives back in episode 1 of season 3 I don't know how you can say it wouldn't hold the show back. Every episode has to focus around him caring for and protecting Grogu or else finding the right babysitter for him before Mando can do other things. That isn't a negative for the show so far but with Grogu there I don't see how it can move forward. I'm very much open to hearing how you believe this could be gotten around.

I love Grogu but there was always going to be a point at he had to leave for Jedi training and Mando was going to have a new quest. I knew he would go to Luke’s school but I had thought they’d use a new Jedi character who was training with Luke because I thought they couldn’t do a good enough mo-cap scene. The VFX was far from perfect but the scene it itself was so much more than VFX.

And the search for Jedi couldn’t last multiple seasons without avoiding Luke existence

Need a Username

Foxtrol wrote: »

Agreed, that was my original point. Disney put the story above potential merchandise sales so it is wrong to claim the opposite will be the main driver for their decisions for season 3.



Who is saying this? If this is targeted at me, I don't watch anything aside from the first trailer for a new show or movie so I'm not spoiled.

If it isn’t what you said then it obviously isn’t “targeted” at you.

Need a Username

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Looks like the sacking was coming for a long time.

Carano say she was banned from doing press for season 2 due to her social media out put.

Still really bad form from Lucasfilm not to tell her face to face that she was fired if of course she is being honest about only finding out on social media.


Gina Carano Learned About ‘Mandalorian’ Firing On Social



https://deadline.com/2021/02/gina-carano-the-mandalorian-firing-actress-responds-social-media-1234694755/

She wasn’t fired

The only actor on the show that can be fired is Pedro Pascal because he is the only permanent one.

Carano is simply not getting work there again. There is no obligation on Lucasfilm to tell her she was not getting hired again. They just tell the actors when they will be needed. Not when they won’t be.

Need a Username

Foxtrol wrote: »

She wasn't fired though, she wasn't a permanent character and they decided they had no plans to take her back. They probably wanted to give her some wiggle room to either change her ways or dig herself into a deeper hole.

Given how she has tried to turn herself into a martyr, she has proved the Disney approach to be right.

Very much doubt this, there is absolutely no way actors gain their image rights as the character after their Star Wars contract ends.

Yes and it is highly unlikely that this fuss has anything to do with Hasbro cancelling a few toys. If they have cancelled them. Hasbro cancel action figures all the time.

Where is Star Wars David these days I thought he would be all over this thread especially defending Lucasfilm for firing the mma woman,

Bacchus

CramCycle wrote: »

There is an oddly large number of people who love to know what's going to happen before it does. Don't get me wrong, I love hypothesizing and being wrong or right but I have friends who will knowingly read spoilers online, who don't mind (and Sky are the worst for this) trailers that show you big plot points or twists. Hell, all the kids in my sons ager brackets watch s most video games they play through on youtube before they play it. It's bizarre. I usually turn off american TV shows now when the credits hit as so many of them have that "next week on"....

This said, I had seen baby yoda before I watched The Mandolorian, but didn't pay attention so thankfully didn't spoil anything.

My take is that it's satisfying our increasing need for instant gratification. We want the dopamine hit and we want it NOW. You can read through the exciting spoilers in 2 minutes rather than sit through an entire episode waiting to find out. BUT, you still get second bump of gratification watching the exciting spoilers you read about play out on screen. I imagine it's similar with the YouTube vids before playing a game, but TBH I would have thought games were all action, all dopamine

I'd nearly put it in the same bracket as the Marshmallow test (the real one, not that viral Instagram variant of it). Can you delay a "better gratification" or cave and take a lesser version now.

Foxtrol

Bacchus wrote: »

My take is that it's satisfying our increasing need for instant gratification. We want the dopamine hit and we want it NOW. You can read through the exciting spoilers in 2 minutes rather than sit through an entire episode waiting to find out. BUT, you still get second bump of gratification watching the exciting spoilers you read about play out on screen. I imagine it's similar with the YouTube vids before playing a game, but TBH I would have thought games were all action, all dopamine

I'd nearly put it in the same bracket as the Marshmallow test (the real one, not that viral Instagram variant of it). Can you delay a "better gratification" or cave and take a lesser version now.

I think people on this thread are making an issue about something that doesn't really exist, aside from some very extreme outliers. I haven't seen anyone post that they want more spoilers and if anything the culture of not spoiling for others is much better than it was - on many threads people put their speculation into spoiler tags.

I do agree with you regarding instant gratification though I see it a lot more with people moaning about having to wait for a week between episodes to get answers, not that they want to be spoiled.

Agent Coulson

Looks like Cara Dune is going to be recast.

She blew it big time they gave her so many chances before firing her.


Behind Disney's Firing of 'Mandalorian' Star Gina Carano

The actress, who sources say made $25,000 to $50,000 per episode of The Mandalorian, was poised to be touted during the presentation, in which Kathleen Kennedy announced 10 new Star Wars shows, including Rangers of the New Republic, a series that seemed tailor-made for Carano.

But Carano was nowhere to be found during the lengthy presentation. In the lead-up to the event, Carano had become a lightning rod among Star Wars fans and a headache for Lucasfilm, after a series of tweets in which she mocked mask-wearing, suggested voter fraud occurred during the 2020 election and shared posts that some viewed as transphobic. “She was originally in that presentation when they announced all those things, and they pulled her off of it

Two months later, the deal for her spinoff is dead, as is her relationship with Lucasfilm and UTA, both of whom dropped her after she shared a post suggesting that being a Republican today was akin to being Jewish in the time leading up to the Holocaust. Disney declined comment beyond Lucasfilm’s initial statement describing Carano’s posts as “abhorrent and unacceptable.”

The decision to banish Carano from the Disney kingdom went higher than Mandalorian creator Jon Favreau and was made by Lucasfilm executives. Carano, sources say, had repeatedly been warned by those around her about her social media behavior, with the actress even noting publicly in September that her Mandalorian co-star Pedro Pascal, who has a trans sibling, educated her about the use of pronouns after a social media flare-up. “She knew it was going to alarm people,” says one person in her orbit of her recent posts. “Why would you put Favreau in that position?

Insiders say Cara Dune wasn’t part of the Star Wars series next up, a Boba Fett spinoff, but expect that the character will be recast down the road, for both story and merchandising reasons

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/behind-disneys-firing-of-mandalorian-star-gina-carano

kerplun k

If she’s being recast can we start calling this a firing now