Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

hardybuck

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Where did I suggest bringing him back?

Sorry you've just tried to defend him so robustly I thought that's what you were edging towards.

hardybuck

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Where did I suggest bringing him back? Just want to say I didn't deliberately exclude 2013 and 2018 to make Clare/Limericks record look worse, I was looking at McGraths tenure prior to the format change. Just to highlight the statistic of a poor record in Munster (while yes it is true of course) is skewed and not a great measure of his tenure and most pertinently not a means to exonerate the current management team.

You've made a further reply so I'll respond to the additional detail also.

Waterford have a poor record in Munster for the last number of years. Two other teams also have poor records, but winning All Ireland's does definitely make up for it.

If you're to take a step back and look at his tenure - would we way maybe a C+ or B-? One national league win, reached an All Ireland final, won 18.2% of the fixtures in the Munster Championship, but got to two finals and lost well in both?

If we're happy enough with that return we should sign up Fanning for 5 years right now - he's bound to win 2 games in Munster between now and 2023.

KevIRL

KevIRL wrote: »

Good few changes to the team for Sunday apparently. Billy Nolan, Darragh Lyons, Shane McNulty, Brian halloran, Peter Hogan starting from what I heard and no starts for Moran, Connors or Austin gleeson

B Nolan
D Lyons
C prunty
S McNulty
C Lyons
Tdb
C gleeson
J Barron
M Kearney
B o halloran
Sh Bennett
T Ryan
St Bennett
P Hogan
J prendergast

Not sure how accurate

deise08

Cornerstoner wrote: »

I have thought long and hard about going to the match on Saturday. Initially I said no way after what I witnessed on Sunday in Walsh Park. "If they are not bothered to put in the effort then why should I". I then thought more about it during the week including the performances from Prunty and Lyons in particular who both fought to the bitter end. As one poster mentioned here, Lyons looked visibly upset when coming off the pitch Sunday it meant that much to him. Those two players are the reason I'm going tomorrow evening. I know they will give it their all and I want to support that

A great sentiment..
We won't be many down there, but we need to stand behind them.

Frozen Veg

hardybuck wrote: »

To add further context, Clare won an All Ireland in the year preceding that window you've looked at, and Limerick won an All Ireland in 2018.

In the two finals you've mentioned, Waterford were beaten by 21 points in one and five in the other. These came in the lull after Clare won an All Ireland and before Limerick won one.

I can't believe you'd suggest bringing McGrath back. Whatever about changing manager at the end of the season, definitely don't go back - he had 5 years as manager so can't feel hard done by.

Was he getting the best out of a limited group of players though.

blue note

Why is everyone trying to make Derek out to have been so poor? Whatever about ignoring all the injuries in his last season (which is ridiculous to be honest), but also only focusing on his munster record? Therefore ignoring the semi finals and final. Why would you do that?

The truth is for three seasons under Derek we were one of the top teams in the country. In 2015 we ran out of steam by the time the semi came around, but had needed that season to get back to the top table. In 2016 we threw away the semis against Kilkenny. And in 2017 we made galway take on the shots you hope to see your opponents take on and the first 10 or so of them went over. And still we only lost by a score. 2018 no team could have coped with our injuries. We actually did quite well to get a draw and come close to cork.

For Derek's tenure the consensus seems to be that he was holding us back and now that he's gone we seem to have changed our minds that the players were ever capable of competing with the top teams and are selectively looking at his record to rewrite it as a complete failure.

But at the end of it all, we were due a change and some fresh ideas. For that reason while I was grateful to Derek I was glad to see him go. But this year has been a disaster of a season and I would say everyone needs to take their share of responsibility, but given what I've read here I better clarify that that doesn't include last year's management. But the set up has looked poor, we've had a mix of no game plan and terrible game plans (puck outs this year have become terrible for example), and the players have played terribly whatever the system.

hardybuck

blue note wrote: »

Why is everyone trying to make Derek out to have been so poor? Whatever about ignoring all the injuries in his last season (which is ridiculous to be honest), but also only focusing on his munster record? Therefore ignoring the semi finals and final. Why would you do that?

The truth is for three seasons under Derek we were one of the top teams in the country. In 2015 we ran out of steam by the time the semi came around, but had needed that season to get back to the top table. In 2016 we threw away the semis against Kilkenny. And in 2017 we made galway take on the shots you hope to see your opponents take on and the first 10 or so of them went over. And still we only lost by a score. 2018 no team could have coped with our injuries. We actually did quite well to get a draw and come close to cork.

For Derek's tenure the consensus seems to be that he was holding us back and now that he's gone we seem to have changed our minds that the players were ever capable of competing with the top teams and are selectively looking at his record to rewrite it as a complete failure.

But at the end of it all, we were due a change and some fresh ideas. For that reason while I was grateful to Derek I was glad to see him go. But this year has been a disaster of a season and I would say everyone needs to take their share of responsibility, but given what I've read here I better clarify that that doesn't include last year's management. But the set up has looked poor, we've had a mix of no game plan and terrible game plans (puck outs this year have become terrible for example), and the players have played terribly whatever the system.

The latest flare up of Derek chat was prompted by some people mentioning the poor Munster Championship record of recent years. We've had an awful record in recent years, and relied on the qualifiers to championship wins for some time now. Now those qualifiers aren't available to Waterford the seasons are suddenly very short - that's just a recent development that could become something more medium to long term.

There are a number of people here who are very sensitive to any criticism of Derek, those who are really anti-Derek, and those who take a balanced view (or think they do).

blue note

hardybuck wrote: »

The latest flare up of Derek chat was prompted by some people mentioning the poor Munster Championship record of recent years. We've had an awful record in recent years, and relied on the qualifiers to championship wins for some time now. Now those qualifiers aren't available to Waterford the seasons are suddenly very short - that's just a recent development that could become something more medium to long term.

There are a number of people here who are very sensitive to any criticism of Derek, those who are really anti-Derek, and those who take a balanced view (or think they do).

With the new munster structure you get at least 4 games. That was enough to win an all Ireland for many teams up to then. It's not a short season in terms of games.

And the qualifiers were knockout games against some weaker teams, but also against teams like kk, Cork, Dublin. I can understand ignoring 2018 when judging his record, the injuries were exceptional. But I can't understand ignoring the knockout hurling.

hardybuck

blue note wrote: »

With the new munster structure you get at least 4 games. That was enough to win an all Ireland for many teams up to then. It's not a short season in terms of games.

And the qualifiers were knockout games against some weaker teams, but also against teams like kk, Cork, Dublin. I can understand ignoring 2018 when judging his record, the injuries were exceptional. But I can't understand ignoring the knockout hurling.

The way I look at is that we've been struggling in Munster for some time now. However we now don't have the opportunity to play teams outside Munster and build momentum en route to AI semi's and finals.

That isn't a reflection on anyone's record - it's just a reflection on the record from 2011 onwards.

mountgomery burns

hardybuck wrote: »

The way I look at is that we've been struggling in Munster for some time now. However we now don't have the opportunity to play teams outside Munster and build momentum en route to AI semi's and finals.

That isn't a reflection on anyone's record - it's just a reflection on the record from 2011 onwards.

But we were in 4 Munster finals from 2011 to 2018. More than Clare or Limerick and as many as Cork. We didn't win any, but in those 8 championships only twice did the winner make the AI final which is once more than Waterford in that space of time.

Everyone acknowledged provincial championships had lost their importance, but they've regained it with new format. I would expect the way a team planned for 2014-2017 is a lot different to now (at least those who had ambitions of winning an all Ireland).

As you said, leaving managers records aside for a minute I just don't understand really what added significance whoever came up with that stat initially is drawing from adding 2014-2017 instead of just mentioning the fact we've failed to win in the new format.

The White Feather

deise08 wrote: »

A great sentiment..
We won't be many down there, but we need to stand behind them.

Yes I would urge all Waterford people to come and support their team even though I am from Cork. It gives me no pleasure to see Waterford being so poor and still think they can bounce back with at least a performance to be happy about.I still think ye have the players but its about confidence in the system/manager and guys stepping up and doing their job rather than going missing. No matter who the manager is, they should be doing that.

Naturally though I want Cork to win but I want to see all counties playing good passionate hurling. Its the same with Offaly as I would love to see them back battling at the top. Teams battling help hurling and while we all want to win, getting a win by a point or 2 is thrilling rather than a game thats over by half time. Though in saying that the latter is easier for my stress levels!!

_blaaz

The White Feather wrote: »

Yes I would urge all Waterford people to come and support their team even though I am from Cork. It gives me no pleasure to see Waterford being so poor and still think they can bounce back with at least a performance to be happy about.I still think ye have the players but its about confidence in the system/manager and guys stepping up and doing their job rather than going missing. No matter who the manager is, they should be doing that.

Naturally though I want Cork to win but I want to see all counties playing good passionate hurling. Its the same with Offaly as I would love to see them back battling at the top. Teams battling help hurling and while we all want to win, getting a win by a point or 2 is thrilling rather than a game thats over by half time. Though in saying that the latter is easier for my stress levels!!

If you seen what i seen last sunday...you wouldnt blame.anyone for not going


Lads sauntering around looking at each other/looking at limerick players looking for a pass and no effort to tackle them


Theres no shame in getting beaten/even hammered...if you can hand on your heart say you tried your best




Only for the minors are playing id be 100% not going,but know 2 young lads on panel so might go....but if they start that sauntering around throwing in towel sh1t...i could be gone at 20 mins

Jjjjjjjjbarry

Still no official team?

KevIRL

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Still no official team?

Might be giving Cork a walkover

Jjjjjjjjbarry

Cork team to play Waterford tomorrow at 7pm in Páirc Uí Chaoimh:

1. Anthony Nash - Kanturk
2. Sean O' Donoghue - Inniscarra
3. Eoin Cadogan - Douglas
4. Niall O' Leary - Castlelyons
5. Robert Downey - Glen Rovers
6. Mark Ellis - Millstreet
7. Mark Coleman - Blarney
8. Bill Cooper - Youghal
9. Darragh Fitzgibbon - Charleville
10. Daniel Kearney - Sarsfields
11. Seamus Harnedy - St Itas (Captain)
12. Luke Meade - Newcestown
13. Alan Cadogan - Douglas
14. Patrick Horgan - Glen Rovers
15. Aidan Walsh - Kanturk

Subs:
16. Patrick Collins - Ballinhassig
17. Conor O' Sullivan - Sarsfields
18. Damien Cahalane - St Finbarrs
19. Stephen McDonnell - Glen Rovers
20. Tim O' Mahony - Newtownshandrum
21. Christopher Joyce - Na Piarsaigh
22. Robbie O' Flynn - Erins Own
23. Shane Kingston - Douglas
24. Conor Lehane - Midleton
25. Declan Dalton - Fr O' Neills
26. Jamie Coughlan - Newtownshandrum

JeffKenna

Ah sur look, at least ireland got a draw tonight anyway.

tommylad1212

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Still no official team?

The team was posted on here already

Jjjjjjjjbarry

tommylad1212 wrote: »

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Still no official team?

The team was posted on here already

That wasn’t officially confirmed as said by the poster.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

Déise hurling banter page on Facebook pulling an April fools.

deise08

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Déise hurling banter page on Facebook pulling an April fools.

An April fools is funny.
That's not.

Deisegodeo

Team named:

B Nolan
S McNulty
C Prunty
D Lyons
C Lyons
T DeBurca
C Gleeson
J Barron
M Kearney
Sh Bennett
B O'Halloran
J Prendergast
T Ryan
St Bennett
P Hogan

tommylad1212

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

That wasn’t officially confirmed as said by the poster.

It's the team !

blueflame

It is notable how many posters are giving Derek plaudits looming at his record saying that the players we have are limited and that Derek over achieved with them and are saying Fanning is not up to it . Before casting such judgements on players and current management look at Derek’s first year in charge and see what he achieved in his first year ! Humiliation, relegation and an early exit . And before anyone says he took over a team in trouble look again at our league and championship performance the year before he took over - safely stayed in a very competitive first division and beaten in extra time by Kilkenny - a bit of balance and fair analysis would not go astray

Jjjjjjjjbarry

I get the feeling that team will give it all. Great to see O’Halloran get a start.

Rasputin11

Are Waterford from 8-15 all less than 6 foot in height?

KevIRL

Serious statement to drop some of the senior members of the team that would be viewed as undroppable

Jjjjjjjjbarry

blueflame wrote: »

It is notable how many posters are giving Derek plaudits looming at his record saying that the players we have are limited and that Derek over achieved with them and are saying Fanning is not up to it . Before casting such judgements on players and current management look at Derek’s first year in charge and see what he achieved in his first year ! Humiliation, relegation and an early exit . And before anyone says he took over a team in trouble look again at our league and championship performance the year before he took over - safely stayed in a very competitive first division and beaten in extra time by Kilkenny - a bit of balance and fair analysis would not go astray

Michael Ryan was treated badly. I thought he transitioned us from Davy’s style quite well.

_blaaz

KevIRL wrote: »

Serious statement to drop some of the senior members of the team that would be viewed as undroppable

Is pauiric.mahony banned....i taught he was at least trying last.day



Hope.they give it there all

blueflame

Dropped or refused to play - will be interested to see the bench 🀨

Jjjjjjjjbarry

_blaaz wrote: »

KevIRL wrote: »

Serious statement to drop some of the senior members of the team that would be viewed as undroppable

Is pauiric.mahony banned....i taught he was at least trying last.day



Hope.they give it there all

Yeah it was a straight red.