Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

Road-Hog

killbillvol2 wrote: »

Well I'll be in Cork as a few of us decided to make a weekend of it when the draw came out. We'll have a fair few scoops before the game to ease the pain.

On the point re falling support since 2008, it was unfortunate that the appalling all Ireland final result coincided with the recession biting hard.
Most people had to cut back significantly in some area and taking a family to a Munster Championship game was an obvious cutback. It wasn't even a choice for a lot of people, they absolutely couldn't afford it.
I cut out some significant expenses from my life over that time and I've never gone back to most of them. You manage without or get out of the habit. There's almost a generation that haven't been brought to games as kids and a huge number of adults who've fallen out of the habit.
Watching the fare over the last few years won't encourage them back or develop any first time supporters. A full generation will be lost if things continue as they are.

If the ‘banner’ hadn’t of gotten that win in 2013 would they plus supporters be in a similar position......after last Sunday they are not a whole lot better than us. The game v limerick coming up will confirm/define their season. Still think we have every bit as good forwards as Lehane and harnedy....despite being slated for saying so by a few posters above....!

Nonoperational

Road-Hog wrote: »

If the ‘banner’ hadn’t of gotten that win in 2013 would they plus supporters be in a similar position......after last Sunday they are not a whole lot better than us. The game v limerick coming up will confirm/define their season. Still think we have every bit as good forwards as Lehane and harnedy....despite being slated for saying so by a few posters above....!

Cork have scored 4 points more in 2 games than Waterford have in 3. The lack of forwards is absolutely killing ye. Has for many years.

Fred C Dobbs

Would love to see more of the younger players playing on Saturday - unlikely but only God knows what sort of the team will be selected or even who is going to pick the team.

Could be a bloodbath or else they play with such abandon that they surprise everyone.

Wonder how Cork are mentally preparing for this one .... maybe a bit a freaked out by the possibility of seemingly picking up two easy points and improving their points difference.

_blaaz

Fred C Dobbs wrote: »

Would love to see more of the younger players playing on Saturday - unlikely but only God knows what sort of the team will be selected or even who is going to pick the team.

Could be a bloodbath or else they play with such abandon that they surprise everyone.

This is pretty much what happened againest tipp last year in limerick

mountgomery burns

I'm not heading down on Saturday but have a season ticket so anyone who wants it PM me. Will send it free of charge.

First come first serve.

Motivator

Nonoperational wrote: »

Cork have scored 4 points more in 2 games than Waterford have in 3. The lack of forwards is absolutely killing ye. Has for many years.

7 players have started in the full forward line in our three games. Their return? 0-5 from play. We’ve also had only one shot in three games, no opposition goalkeeper has had to make a save.

Ropaire

killbillvol2 wrote: »

Well I'll be in Cork as a few of us decided to make a weekend of it when the draw came out. We'll have a fair few scoops before the game to ease the pain.

On the point re falling support since 2008, it was unfortunate that the appalling all Ireland final result coincided with the recession biting hard.
Most people had to cut back significantly in some area and taking a family to a Munster Championship game was an obvious cutback. It wasn't even a choice for a lot of people, they absolutely couldn't afford it.
I cut out some significant expenses from my life over that time and I've never gone back to most of them. You manage without or get out of the habit. There's almost a generation that haven't been brought to games as kids and a huge number of adults who've fallen out of the habit.
Watching the fare over the last few years won't encourage them back or develop any first time supporters. A full generation will be lost if things continue as they are.

I grew up in the 90s and used to love going to games with my father, cousins and uncles, they'd bring a paint tin for me to stand on in the terrace full of crisps and random crap to eat and pass it off as a lunchbox which was fn comical stuff. They're the kind of lads who'd scream their lungs out for the entire game and get lads around them going as well, and they'd lift me up to wave the auld flag any time we scored, it was fn epic and some of the best memories of my childhood. The colour and noise was amazing like. They stopped going when we stretched a bit and truth be told they probably couldn't afford it as you say. Ticket prices are creeping up all the time too like, it's a fn expensive day out if yer hauling a rake of kids with you and feeding them for the day.

Having said that, the support in Walsh Park was as poor as the hurling on the pitch from us this year, a missing generation has forgotten how to support that team. Crying shame that kids these days won't get the same atmosphere and craic at a game.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

I normally walk up to Pairc Ui Chaoimh from the city but as it's a Saturday evening it'll probably be mental for parking and car parks might close early so I'd say I'd be better off going in by Blackrock / Cork Constitution? They still do match day parking?

Stacksofwacks

Motivator wrote: »

7 players have started in the full forward line in our three games. Their return? 0-5 from play. We’ve also had only one shot in three games, no opposition goalkeeper has had to make a save.

That's a shocking return. I don't get how some of these lads were scoring so freely underage but now can't hit a barn door. This group of players will not win an All Ireland. Not enough of them have stepped up to the plate. To give 3 performances as bad as the last 3 there is no coming back from. Its disappointing because there was so much potential there.

Ri na hEireann

Road-Hog wrote: »

Still think we have every bit as good forwards as Lehane and harnedy....despite being slated for saying so by a few posters above....!

Name one Waterford forward better than either of those players? You’re welcome to your opinion but it’s not based on any evidence.

paddy13

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

That's a shocking return. I don't get how some of these lads were scoring so freely underage but now can't hit a barn door. This group of players will not win an All Ireland. Not enough of them have stepped up to the plate. To give 3 performances as bad as the last 3 there is no coming back from. Its disappointing because there was so much potential there.

I am unfortunately starting to agree with this. I think if the lads were going to make at Senior level they should be showing it. Next year is going to be massive if they will all be still around as they won't have Brick (and maybe Moran) to depend on to lead them.
Not one of them this year has shown leadership qualities.

Stacksofwacks

paddy13 wrote: »

I am unfortunately starting to agree with this. I think if the lads were going to make at Senior level they should be showing it. Next year is going to be massive if they will all be still around as they won't have Brick (and maybe Moran) to depend on to lead them.
Not one of them this year has shown leadership qualities.

If look back to the AI semi finals in 16 and 17 it was Brick and Moran leading the charge mainly, doing most of the dirty work with occasional brilliance from Austin and Barron. I dont want to give up these guys completely but i think their true colors have been shown. We badly need a few more good minor and U21's coming through because i dont think its going to happen with these guys.

Mastermcgrath

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

If look back to the AI semi finals in 16 and 17 it was Brick and Moran leading the charge mainly, doing most of the dirty work with occasional brilliance from Austin and Barron. I dont want to give up these guys completely but i think their true colors have been shown. We badly need a few more good minor and U21's coming through because i dont think its going to happen with these guys.

Agreed. Every top side needs a marquee forward that gives them that x-factor, I'm talking a Seamus Callinan, Pat Horgan, Joe Canning, Tony Kelly or TJ Reid. We have no one in that calibre. It looked like Patrick Curran and Stephen Bennett could potentially reach that level in their underage days but hasn't proven to be the case.

Therustynail

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

I think Derek mc Grath would be still there ,so know he didn't think he'd taken them as far as he can ,you keep banging on about how many scores we get and the terrible forwards .in the Clare and tipp games we scored 40 points ,the backs are well and truely the problem ,poor everywhere ( ball winning ,distribution, slow getting the ball up the field,loosing possession way to easy )and when it eventually arrives in the forward line we are marked out of it .the positioning of AG is terrible .the absolute blind confidence in TDB is amazing ,(after his young player of the year he has disappointed the most , Philip Mahoney ,Conor Gleeson are not wing backs ,they're sticky but thats it .etc etc .too many fellas on the panel with years that have not progressed at all , need a serious clean out .mc Nulty,DFives,O'Brien, DJ,Brick,K Moran, etc etc in my eyes any forward deserves another chance to prove themselves in a team that actually wants to play them , as alluded to earlier the management team is horrendous .not sure if any of them has ever coached a winning team at any age group .of course I'm open to correction on that one

I really think your username sums you up well. If you are going to clear out the players mentioned above , who do you replace them with? You really think we have players of the caliber of D Fives & K Moran across the county undiscovered? Our scoring average is by far the lowest of any of the Munster teams to date and probably less than most tier 2 counties.

hurler on de ditch

Therustynail wrote: »

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

I think Derek mc Grath would be still there ,so know he didn't think he'd taken them as far as he can ,you keep banging on about how many scores we get and the terrible forwards .in the Clare and tipp games we scored 40 points ,the backs are well and truely the problem ,poor everywhere ( ball winning ,distribution, slow getting the ball up the field,loosing possession way to easy )and when it eventually arrives in the forward line we are marked out of it .the positioning of AG is terrible .the absolute blind confidence in TDB is amazing ,(after his young player of the year he has disappointed the most , Philip Mahoney ,Conor Gleeson are not wing backs ,they're sticky but thats it .etc etc .too many fellas on the panel with years that have not progressed at all , need a serious clean out .mc Nulty,DFives,O'Brien, DJ,Brick,K Moran, etc etc in my eyes any forward deserves another chance to prove themselves in a team that actually wants to play them , as alluded to earlier the management team is horrendous .not sure if any of them has ever coached a winning team at any age group .of course I'm open to correction on that one

I really think your username sums you up well. If you are going to clear out the players mentioned above , who do you replace them with? You really think we have players of the caliber of D Fives & K Moran across the county undiscovered? Our scoring average is by far the lowest of any of the Munster teams to date and probably less than most tier 2 counties.

everyone keeps banging on about our scoring ,just remind me what Moran or Fives have contributed these last few years .and would they even survived in any top county , I'll wait for an answer, ,just what kind of calibre player is D,Fives

hurler on de ditch

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

Road-Hog wrote: »

Still think we have every bit as good forwards as Lehane and harnedy....despite being slated for saying so by a few posters above....!

Name one Waterford forward better than either of those players? You’re welcome to your opinion but it’s not based on any evidence.

Name any Waterford player in any position better than a cork player ,evidence based of course

hurler on de ditch

Therustynail wrote: »

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

I think Derek mc Grath would be still there ,so know he didn't think he'd taken them as far as he can ,you keep banging on about how many scores we get and the terrible forwards .in the Clare and tipp games we scored 40 points ,the backs are well and truely the problem ,poor everywhere ( ball winning ,distribution, slow getting the ball up the field,loosing possession way to easy )and when it eventually arrives in the forward line we are marked out of it .the positioning of AG is terrible .the absolute blind confidence in TDB is amazing ,(after his young player of the year he has disappointed the most , Philip Mahoney ,Conor Gleeson are not wing backs ,they're sticky but thats it .etc etc .too many fellas on the panel with years that have not progressed at all , need a serious clean out .mc Nulty,DFives,O'Brien, DJ,Brick,K Moran, etc etc in my eyes any forward deserves another chance to prove themselves in a team that actually wants to play them , as alluded to earlier the management team is horrendous .not sure if any of them has ever coached a winning team at any age group .of course I'm open to correction on that one

I really think your username sums you up well. If you are going to clear out the players mentioned above , who do you replace them with? You really think we have players of the caliber of D Fives & K Moran across the county undiscovered? Our scoring average is by far the lowest of any of the Munster teams to date and probably less than most tier 2 counties.

Just when we're on the whole username thing , exactly what is a rusty nail good for ?

blueflame

I finally got the courage up to rewatch the recording of the game last night. First thing i can say is that for the first 15 minutes, and this had little or nothing to do with the wind advantage from what i could see, we were well on top, but two things happened. We started shooting wide after wide, and then Limerick got their goal, and we just collapsed from there. Lads started sulking, picking wrong options and stopped challenging. The amount of times a Limerick Player waltzed between three Waterford players without one of them laying a glove on them was unreal, whereas everytime we got a ball we were punch drunk from the hits that came in. Limerick looked to exploit the space and move the ball quickly, while we repreatedly carried the ball into serious traffic. I would say it was down to strength & conditioning and fitness were it not for the performance of Prunty, Prendergast and Lyons who more than held their own. Literally we did not want it badly enough, we did not show near enough controlled aggression, we coughed up the ball way to easily and did not play as a team. This is down to players attitudes and management planning and selection.

Stephen Bennett and Tommy Ryan looked dangerous when they received decent ball, but this was a major problem. The quality of ball into our forwards early was decent, but after that it was dreadful with about 90% of it being long high balls from 90 yards plus where the defenders had time and numbers to just crowd us out. I said it in a previous post and I will say it again, a full forward line of Patrick Horgan, Henry Shefflin and Seamus Callinan would have struggled to get scores last Sunday with the way we played. Do not judge our young lads lads yet until we sort out how to get decent ball into them.

On that note Aussie has to be tried at Centre Back, for three reasons:

1. He is not comfortable as a forward he drifts in and out of games, and he is much more comfortable facing the ball, where he is as capable of scoring as much from centre back as he is from centre forward. More importantly his passing ability and quality of delivery is top quality and he also has the pace to make space for himself.

2. As a forward he has one good game in about six and we live in dream of this good game and persist with him there. This is no where near consistent enough to justify his selection there. He is only being played half forward to win ball, we can work on better puck out strategies or look at other options. He is not winning near enough ball to justiy this.

3. DeBurca while being a top quality defender does not pose any real threat in possession, his selection and deliver are quite poor and gets bottled up quite easily. He has spent two much time as a free sweeper and needs to relearn his game.

On the other hand Maurice is not a Full Forward, he does not have the touch or speed of turn for a full forward, he does not like the confines of the square and certainly does not like the extra close attention that full backs give full forwards. He could however be quite a useful wing forward - where he was named last Sunday - where is likely to be more one on one and has more space to roam. He is also it would appear a much better impact player than starter.

Looking to rebuilding, whether it is under Fanning or a new manager, we need to look at more change, look at what the three new comers have brought to the team . my preferable team for league next year with an eye on the championship would be :

Billy Nolan

C. Lyons, C. Prunty, Eddie Hayden ( Ballygunner)

S Keating, A. Gleeson, T DeBurca

J. Barron Shane Bennett

J Prendergast Pauric Mahony Colm Roche

D Lyons Stephen Bennett Patrick Curran

Eddie Hayden for me was probably the best corner back on view in the Club Championship last year and when it came to Munster Club, he was outstanding for Ballygunner. In fact his loss to injury at half time against Shamrocks was a savage blow for Ballygunner, and coudl for me have been the difference in the final result. Fergal Hartley expressed this view in his after match analysis also. I think he is really worth having a look at.

I think Darragh Lyons is a really crafty and aggressive hurler, lacks a little bit of height, but is well capable of scoring. He is very brave and has that defenders mentalilty for hard work - he won't give opposing corner backs an easy exit either.

Colm Roche is a strong aggressive hurler who showed well as a wing back when played there but has also shown up really well in the forwards over the years and we know he is capable of scoring. Think he would also be a very hard worker not giving up anything soft to his opposing marker. Could equally swap him with Shane Bennett.

Seamus Keating impressed me seriously whenever he has played for the county, strong and aggressive and we need to start looking for young replacements for Philip Mahony, Darragh Fives and Kevin Moran.

I would also seriously consider the possibility of swapping DeBurca with Prunty. Problem is Prunty is settling in well at full back but honestly I feel deBurca is more than capable of playing in that position and would suit the tight marking role he played at under age. he spent a lot of time in our square under Derek anyway. Prunty at wing back with his speed, aggression, height and directness is something I would love to see. Worth a gamble in the league anyone?

This team also leaves a lot of other lads not mentioned above on the line, such as Socks, Noellie Connors, Shane McNulty, Shane Fives, Conor Gleeson, Kieran Bennett , Maurice Shanahan, Tommy Ryan, Michael Kearney, DJ Foran , Jordan Henley, Colin Dunford, Brian O'Halloran all having to stand up and fight for their place come Championship


I honestly believe looking at this panel of players, and others that could be added also (Paudie Prendergast, Michael Harney and Wilie Hassey are two that spring to mind) we should be capable of competing on an even footing with the best out there, particularly if we get our Fitness and Attitude right.

Time to be progressive, time to be brave and to look forward not backwards

JesusRef

blueflame wrote: »

I finally got the courage up to rewatch the recording of the game last night. First thing i can say is that for the first 15 minutes, and this had little or nothing to do with the wind advantage from what i could see, we were well on top, but two things happened. We started shooting wide after wide, and then Limerick got their goal, and we just collapsed from there. Lads started sulking, picking wrong options and stopped challenging. The amount of times a Limerick Player waltzed between three Waterford players without one of them laying a glove on them was unreal, whereas everytime we got a ball we were punch drunk from the hits that came in. Limerick looked to exploit the space and move the ball quickly, while we repreatedly carried the ball into serious traffic. I would say it was down to strength & conditioning and fitness were it not for the performance of Prunty, Prendergast and Lyons who more than held their own. Literally we did not want it badly enough, we did not show near enough controlled aggression, we coughed up the ball way to easily and did not play as a team. This is down to players attitudes and management planning and selection.

Stephen Bennett and Tommy Ryan looked dangerous when they received decent ball, but this was a major problem. The quality of ball into our forwards early was decent, but after that it was dreadful with about 90% of it being long high balls from 90 yards plus where the defenders had time and numbers to just crowd us out. I said it in a previous post and I will say it again, a full forward line of Patrick Horgan, Henry Shefflin and Seamus Callinan would have struggled to get scores last Sunday with the way we played. Do not judge our young lads lads yet until we sort out how to get decent ball into them.

On that note Aussie has to be tried at Centre Back, for three reasons:

1. He is not comfortable as a forward he drifts in and out of games, and he is much more comfortable facing the ball, where he is as capable of scoring as much from centre back as he is from centre forward. More importantly his passing ability and quality of delivery is top quality and he also has the pace to make space for himself.

2. As a forward he has one good game in about six and we live in dream of this good game and persist with him there. This is no where near consistent enough to justify his selection there. He is only being played half forward to win ball, we can work on better puck out strategies or look at other options. He is not winning near enough ball to justiy this.

3. DeBurca while being a top quality defender does not pose any real threat in possession, his selection and deliver are quite poor and gets bottled up quite easily. He has spent two much time as a free sweeper and needs to relearn his game.

On the other hand Maurice is not a Full Forward, he does not have the touch or speed of turn for a full forward, he does not like the confines of the square and certainly does not like the extra close attention that full backs give full forwards. He could however be quite a useful wing forward - where he was named last Sunday - where is likely to be more one on one and has more space to roam. He is also it would appear a much better impact player than starter.

Looking to rebuilding, whether it is under Fanning or a new manager, we need to look at more change, look at what the three new comers have brought to the team . my preferable team for league next year with an eye on the championship would be :

Billy Nolan

C. Lyons, C. Prunty, Eddie Hayden ( Ballygunner)

S Keating, A. Gleeson, T DeBurca

J. Barron Shane Bennett

J Prendergast Pauric Mahony Colm Roche

D Lyons Stephen Bennett Patrick Curran

Eddie Hayden for me was probably the best corner back on view in the Club Championship last year and when it came to Munster Club, he was outstanding for Ballygunner. In fact his loss to injury at half time against Shamrocks was a savage blow for Ballygunner, and coudl for me have been the difference in the final result. Fergal Hartley expressed this view in his after match analysis also. I think he is really worth having a look at.

I think Darragh Lyons is a really crafty and aggressive hurler, lacks a little bit of height, but is well capable of scoring. He is very brave and has that defenders mentalilty for hard work - he won't give opposing corner backs an easy exit either.

Colm Roche is a strong aggressive hurler who showed well as a wing back when played there but has also shown up really well in the forwards over the years and we know he is capable of scoring. Think he would also be a very hard worker not giving up anything soft to his opposing marker. Could equally swap him with Shane Bennett.

Seamus Keating impressed me seriously whenever he has played for the county, strong and aggressive and we need to start looking for young replacements for Philip Mahony, Darragh Fives and Kevin Moran.

I would also seriously consider the possibility of swapping DeBurca with Prunty. Problem is Prunty is settling in well at full back but honestly I feel deBurca is more than capable of playing in that position and would suit the tight marking role he played at under age. he spent a lot of time in our square under Derek anyway. Prunty at wing back with his speed, aggression, height and directness is something I would love to see. Worth a gamble in the league anyone?

This team also leaves a lot of other lads not mentioned above on the line, such as Socks, Noellie Connors, Shane McNulty, Shane Fives, Conor Gleeson, Kieran Bennett , Maurice Shanahan, Tommy Ryan, Michael Kearney, DJ Foran , Jordan Henley, Colin Dunford, Brian O'Halloran all having to stand up and fight for their place come Championship


I honestly believe looking at this panel of players, and others that could be added also (Paudie Prendergast, Michael Harney and Wilie Hassey are two that spring to mind) we should be capable of competing on an even footing with the best out there, particularly if we get our Fitness and Attitude right.

Time to be progressive, time to be brave and to look forward not backwards

Thinking about the post above I hope it is a case that the batch of players from U21 of 2016 just haven't been given a proper opportunity to prove themselves yet.

I would agree with a lot of your team, Nolan has a very accurate puck out, something I think is lacking now.

Austin isn't a kid anymore - give him his shot at CB - what's to f*coming lose at this stage.

Full forward is there a big man we can put in there (Lucey, Montgomery?) Devine is a big loss there.

Ropaire

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

Just when we're on the whole username thing , exactly what is a rusty nail good for ?

If they're just starting to rust they get a better grip than a fresh one lad.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

https://www.offtheball.com/hurling/paraic-fanning-ger-loughnane-867523

Ger Loughnane not holding back.

PTH2009

Fanning has no intention of stepping down I imagine

Jjjjjjjjbarry

I’d be surprised if he didn’t. I’m sure he has our best interests at heart and if he feels he can’t bring us on then he’ll step aside. It’s not like he’s on a big contract like Jose Mourinho or maybe I’m too innocent!

PTH2009

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

I’d be surprised if he didn’t. I’m sure he has our best interests at heart and if he feels he can’t bring us on then he’ll step aside. It’s not like he’s on a big contract like Jose Mourinho or maybe I’m too innocent!

Hes stubborn too and his own pride is at stake. He could want another shot at it and it's up too the players who dislike the regime if they want too come back or not

Personally dont think he can bring us further and should go

Ropaire

PTH2009 wrote: »

Hes stubborn too and his own pride is at stake. He could want another shot at it and it's up too the players who dislike the regime if they want too come back or not

Personally dont think he can bring us further and should go

Hard to know what he's really able to get out of them when they don't seem interested in playing for him. It's easier to replace 1 manager than 30 players though so if push comes to shove the CB will give him the bullet.

PTH2009

Ropaire wrote: »

Hard to know what he's really able to get out of them when they don't seem interested in playing for him. It's easier to replace 1 manager than 30 players though so if push comes to shove the CB will give him the bullet.

At the end of the day its the Waterford CB so anything can happen really ha

Deisegodeo

Local rumour mill has Henry sheflin linked to the job...

Just said I'd post 1 of the few positive rumours doing the rounds! Doom and gloom around here lately!

_blaaz

PTH2009 wrote: »

Hes stubborn too and his own pride is at stake. He could want another shot at it and it's up too the players who dislike the regime if they want too come back or not

Personally dont think he can bring us further and should go

Tbh ive heard he had to be talked into staying on after last matcb dressing room.bustup

Stacksofwacks

Gotta love Loughnane, others would tiptoe around a subject but he just comes right out and says what everyone's thinking...

If Fanning wants a second year then he needs to explain exactly whats gone wrong and what he plans to do to fix it. Name names if need be. Derek got rid of a load of players after his first year and said openly that he was going to change how we were going to play. You may not have agreed with it but at least he had a plan.

Stopitwillya

Motivator wrote: »

Nonoperational wrote: »

Cork have scored 4 points more in 2 games than Waterford have in 3. The lack of forwards is absolutely killing ye. Has for many years.

7 players have started in the full forward line in our three games. Their return? 0-5 from play. We’ve also had only one shot in three games, no opposition goalkeeper has had to make a save.

Starting in the full forward line but playing as extra midfielders.
Having said that we have had chances. Stephen Bennett should have had goals against both Clare and Limerick and Patrick Curran against tipp. Tactics are a big part of what's making our forwards look so poor.