Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

mountgomery burns

Mastermcgrath wrote: »

The city dominance on the county senior team in those periods was stronger aswell. I think in 98 Mount sion had something like 11 on the panel and Ballygunner a significant number also, DLS came strong then in the early noughties. This brought a larger following from the city as they would have felt more of a connection to the team. The All Ireland defeat in 08, followed by recession, and a wider spread of rural clubs being represented meant that city support has faded largely. Given that the city is effectively 50% of the county's population this has an impact

Interesting point and not one I've heard before

Jjjjjjjjbarry

Yet when Ballygunner play Munster semi finals in Walsh Park there’s barely anyone there or a whisper from the ‘home’ crowd and the away fans drown them out just like at the weekend.

Mastermcgrath

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Yet when Ballygunner play Munster semi finals in Walsh Park there’s barely anyone there or a whisper from the ‘home’ crowd and the away fans drown them out just like at the weekend.

There's bigger crowds watching Ballygunners u8's tournaments than there is at their senior games

blueflame

I would be one of the first to criticize the level of attendances at games, but even if we are only talking about a hard core of 1,500 supporters, (which would be commensurate with most counties of our size, especially given the beatings we have taken) that is still a lot of people to be letting down. The Armchair or band wagon Supporter is necessary to fill big games, and they will give out and moan about tickets, but the genuine supporter travels the length and breadth of the country not for the trip but to support the team. They live every minute of every game, they wish they were good enough, young enough or old enough to have that chance, they train and prepare young lads, promote the game locally and they put their hand in their pocket time and time again to support these players. Remember this is not a team who have been left to rot, or have been deprived, they have only recently returned from a training camp in Portugal, much of which was funded by these supporters one way or another.

The bandwagon and armchair lads most likely sat down Sunday night and had a moan and drank a few pints, while the genuine supporter was I am sure sick to their teeth and upset by what they had seen. Many of them will have felt the pain every bit as much the players, maybe even more because they could do nothing about it. These were the people that were left down and given the finger by the team on the pitch, and possibly by their conduct afterwards - I say possibly and will not make more definitive comment as i did not witness this conduct personally and have discovered over the years that second hand reports can be very unreliable.

I only hope that show a far higher degree of self- respect and respect for their true supporters next Saturday evening and prove to everyone that there is a future for this team.

Therustynail

I think Derek McGrath knew that he had taken this team as far as he could. We are probably not as bad as we showed in previous 3 games but we were probably not as good as some people thought for last number of years. Truth lies somewhere in the middle. Previous poster who mentioned that we have forwards of the quality of Harnedy & Lehane of Cork need to get their head examined. We simply don't have the forwards to win an All-Ireland at present. We don't have forwards that can win their own ball consistently and we don't have frightening pace to frighten defenses either. I'm afraid at this stage some of our Minor / U21 stars will not make the grade for senior intercounty. As for the team going out and having a few drinks Sunday , people need to remember they are amateur. Not one of them signed up for intercounty hurling this year to look down the barrel of three losses and being out of Championship by 1st week June. I don't blame them in the slightest. I think management should go after Saturday and if we are serious about winning All- Irelands in the future , we need 5 & 10 year plans with some foresight. Not holding my breath with current administrators in Waterford GAA.

willbeuptuesday

Lads the buzz has gone out of hurling in this county for a while, the attendances at club games is pathetic and our county finals must be the poorest supported in Ireland. I know we had over 3500 last year because it was Abbeysides first final in a while but normally it would be lower than that. We have no sense of occasion at our finals, when was the last time you saw a parade before the final? This does not happen in other counties, there is a general malaise towards Gaa at the moment. Our championships are really not that competitive, you can loose two rounds and still qualify. We have no leagues worth talking about, I'll have money with anyone willing to bet that this years leagues wont finish. Does this happen in other counties? We need to come up with meaningful competitions which capture the imagination of the players and supports alike. The only way to develop players is in good hard competitive games. I know I have being banging on about this for a while but we need a sub committee of independent people who will do a root and branch review of Waterford hurling from U6 to Senior and develop a plan that will help us to compete on a consistent basis. If this has been done before can anyone post a link to it, if it has n't why so? We need to reflect on the current situation with a bit of maturity and come up with solid solutions for the good of Waterford Gaa.

TheScoringGoal

I'm pretty sure there was a row with the band a few years ago. Something along the lines of having to sit in wet seats so they wouldn't play the next time. Just another glorious chapter for our administratiors.

Cornerstoner

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/the-man-who-prepared-the-limerick-rocket-for-moon-landing-925148.html

You only need to read this article to realise how far behind we have fallen in every aspect. Compare this to our current set up, starting at underage and right up to the senior set up and the County Board. Its actually frightening

hurler on de ditch

Therustynail wrote: »

I think Derek McGrath knew that he had taken this team as far as he could. We are probably not as bad as we showed in previous 3 games but we were probably not as good as some people thought for last number of years. Truth lies somewhere in the middle. Previous poster who mentioned that we have forwards of the quality of Harnedy & Lehane of Cork need to get their head examined. We simply don't have the forwards to win an All-Ireland at present. We don't have forwards that can win their own ball consistently and we don't have frightening pace to frighten defenses either. I'm afraid at this stage some of our Minor / U21 stars will not make the grade for senior intercounty. As for the team going out and having a few drinks Sunday , people need to remember they are amateur. Not one of them signed up for intercounty hurling this year to look down the barrel of three losses and being out of Championship by 1st week June. I don't blame them in the slightest. I think management should go after Saturday and if we are serious about winning All- Irelands in the future , we need 5 & 10 year plans with some foresight. Not holding my breath with current administrators in Waterford GAA.

I think Derek mc Grath would be still there ,so know he didn't think he'd taken them as far as he can ,you keep banging on about how many scores we get and the terrible forwards .in the Clare and tipp games we scored 40 points ,the backs are well and truely the problem ,poor everywhere ( ball winning ,distribution, slow getting the ball up the field,loosing possession way to easy )and when it eventually arrives in the forward line we are marked out of it .the positioning of AG is terrible .the absolute blind confidence in TDB is amazing ,(after his young player of the year he has disappointed the most , Philip Mahoney ,Conor Gleeson are not wing backs ,they're sticky but thats it .etc etc .too many fellas on the panel with years that have not progressed at all , need a serious clean out .mc Nulty,DFives,O'Brien, DJ,Brick,K Moran, etc etc in my eyes any forward deserves another chance to prove themselves in a team that actually wants to play them , as alluded to earlier the management team is horrendous .not sure if any of them has ever coached a winning team at any age group .of course I'm open to correction on that one

willbeuptuesday

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/the-man-who-prepared-the-limerick-rocket-for-moon-landing-925148.html

Brilliant article which accurately reflects where we are at the moment, it is a long read but well worth it. I have taken this paragraph out for people to read, what's the chances of this happening in Waterford, they are taking about Divisional boards doing their own thing "You couldn’t call a development squad session for a Tuesday night because the South Board might have games on that night, or a Thursday because the West Board had games then. For a co-ordinated games programme and training schedule, the divisional boards would need to be scrapped, at least at senior level. O’Dea’s task was akin to asking turkeys to vote for Christmas.

Suffice to say, the turkeys didn’t like the idea. When they met with one particular divisional board, the delegates one by one stood up and announced that as a form of protest, they were walking out the door. “We were left sitting there with our presentation, yet to open our mouths!”

But eventually they were persuaded back into the room. And to listen. And in the end to vote for Christmas. Because it was what was best for Limerick.

hardybuck

I'm gone from playing a few years myself, but I'd love to get the views of an adult club player in here too. They must be the most sickened group of all with the season so all over the place.

Would I be right in saying that right now a senior club hurler has played only about 5 games across all competitions after six months of the year?

If the club scene is dead, people in the communities aren't going to be in or around their clubs, and they're less likely to be excited about the county team either.

freedominacup

Cornerstoner wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/the-man-who-prepared-the-limerick-rocket-for-moon-landing-925148.html

You only need to read this article to realise how far behind we have fallen in every aspect. Compare this to our current set up, starting at underage and right up to the senior set up and the County Board. Its actually frightening

Read that article from start to finish. He had to start a the most basic of basic levels. There's no shortcut really. You actually have to accept that every player currently on any county squad is on their way out the door waiting to be replaced by kids who can't execute a jab lift properly yet.

You have to change the mindset of a lot of underage coaches. How many of ye have been in bord na nog meetings where the coaches of last years u14b champions are agitating strongly that their team isn't good enough to play in this years u15A competition. Some silverware of any type is preferable to them than taking their lumps and pushing the group they're coaching to a higher level. "B specials" a former underage coach referred to them as. I was speaking to another guy who split an underage group in a large club basically alphabetically and insisted on entering two A teams. There was war. Club and parents throwing toys out of the pram.

The adult section of clubs has to take a much more proactive role in the juvenile section esp with group teams. Too easy to just let whoever is interested at it. Leads to u8s not getting a jersey because they weren't named on the panel for a blitz. The coach in question was very focused on the development of the starting midfielder for Waterford in the first round of the 2024 Munster championship (aka his own youngfella). He was left at it until the youngfella started taking a greater interest in soccer a few years later.

If we are waiting for a development messiah we'll be having similar conversations for a long time to come.

JesusRef

When you look at the backroom team it is lightweight alright.
Tipp have Eamonn OShea in to work on forward movement and space creation, He worked with Callanan in 2016 on a one on one basis, Callanan was u real that year.

Galway, even though they aren't going will this year, have Kieran Donaghy in apparently to do with forward movement.

Cork have Kieran Murphy, a cute forward who didn't survive because of size and pace but because of guile, they also had Doug howlett in at the start of the year. (Last year in thurles cork had a innovative bunch and break tactic in the forward line, hard to see on tv but it was like they dragged all the Waterford backs close to the sweeper in the middle of the pitch and then broke to the sides, almost impossible to mark and totally rules out the sweeper)

Who do we have to help with this kind of forward movement? It seems no one the last while... a lot of our coaches even at club level were defenders and defensive focussed.... So a sweeper to protect the backs... ballygunner will play a sweeper against a team they are beating a team by 20 points...

Surely Paul Flynn would be an asset in terms of forward movement (Twirls Jamie), at one stage on Sunday Tommy Ryan went back to his old habits of waiting behind a Limerick defender waiting for him to miss the ball only for it to be intercepted... wouldn't happen if Flynn was involved

The players are young men and Derek was a huge influence on them, but it is time to try something new, basically anyone that was critical of Derek (like Flynn) was branded a spoofer and the players didn't want them, the players need to realise the there is more than just the right way.

Teams have figured us out, Limerick carried the ball into our half back line with short passes, negating the sweeper and scoring from there...

I'd hate to be a Waterford forward on that panel, constantly outnumbered their confidence is shot, at every level outside senior they have proved themselves superior to their peers (some dominant displays at fitzgibbon), but at senior they are going backwards at a rate of knots....


I would play

Prunty FB, Callum Lyons beside him,

Austin CB - leave him there (tadhg gives shyte ball into the forwards, Austin gave great ball at underage)

Conor Gleeson and Shane Bennett - Midfield

Jamie Barron as an elusive CF who can drift, get on the ball and score, He can also suck in 2/3 opposition players and go past them.

Try and find a big man who can move to go full forward, get Paddy Curran into the team and stick with him, give these lads a proper chance.

Have a cull on the panel, we had decent U21 teams the last few years, none of them can stink up the place as bad as last weekend

hardybuck

freedominacup wrote: »

Read that article from start to finish. He had to start a the most basic of basic levels. There's no shortcut really. You actually have to accept that every player currently on any county squad is on their way out the door waiting to be replaced by kids who can't execute a jab lift properly yet.

You have to change the mindset of a lot of underage coaches. How many of ye have been in bord na nog meetings where the coaches of last years u14b champions are agitating strongly that their team isn't good enough to play in this years u15A competition. Some silverware of any type is preferable to them than taking their lumps and pushing the group they're coaching to a higher level. "B specials" a former underage coach referred to them as. I was speaking to another guy who split an underage group in a large club basically alphabetically and insisted on entering two A teams. There was war. Club and parents throwing toys out of the pram.

The adult section of clubs has to take a much more proactive role in the juvenile section esp with group teams. Too easy to just let whoever is interested at it. Leads to u8s not getting a jersey because they weren't named on the panel for a blitz. The coach in question was very focused on the development of the starting midfielder for Waterford in the first round of the 2024 Munster championship (aka his own youngfella). He was left at it until the youngfella started taking a greater interest in soccer a few years later.

If we are waiting for a development messiah we'll be having similar conversations for a long time to come.

I know one of my nephews who plays U9 has stopped enjoying the game and will probably leave it to focus on the other sports he plays due to the totally unsuitable guys they have on the line.

The mentors in fairness are giving their time because their sons are involved, but you'd want to hear the rubbish they shout at kids - everything is do or die.

This would be a classic example of the senior side of the club maybe a bit complacent in terms of leaving underage sections off to their own devices.

thesultan

Road-Hog wrote: »

Road-Hog wrote: »

Where were these two in the semi in 2017......

What about Clare after yesterday.......they are not gone yet but most likely will join Waterford next weekend......is there talk of Clare becoming the next offay by their ‘fans’

Who recalls the defeat to Wexford in 2003......I remember dan being slated as much as gleeson is now......he disappeared but came back to form again eventually and won hurler of year....!

Big Dan was always slated prior to the 2004 championship. It was only post to it that he became the player that he is now known for..

thesultan

Road-Hog wrote: »

Road-Hog wrote: »

Where were these two in the semi in 2017......

What about Clare after yesterday.......they are not gone yet but most likely will join Waterford next weekend......is there talk of Clare becoming the next offay by their ‘fans’

Who recalls the defeat to Wexford in 2003......I remember dan being slated as much as gleeson is now......he disappeared but came back to form again eventually and won hurler of year....!

Big Dan was always slated prior to the 2004 championship. It was only post to it that he became the player that he is now known for..

Spatters

willbeuptuesday wrote: »

Lads the buzz has gone out of hurling in this county for a while, the attendances at club games is pathetic and our county finals must be the poorest supported in Ireland. I know we had over 3500 last year because it was Abbeysides first final in a while but normally it would be lower than that. We have no sense of occasion at our finals, when was the last time you saw a parade before the final? This does not happen in other counties, there is a general malaise towards Gaa at the moment. Our championships are really not that competitive, you can loose two rounds and still qualify. We have no leagues worth talking about, I'll have money with anyone willing to bet that this years leagues wont finish. Does this happen in other counties? We need to come up with meaningful competitions which capture the imagination of the players and supports alike. The only way to develop players is in good hard competitive games. I know I have being banging on about this for a while but we need a sub committee of independent people who will do a root and branch review of Waterford hurling from U6 to Senior and develop a plan that will help us to compete on a consistent basis. If this has been done before can anyone post a link to it, if it has n't why so? We need to reflect on the current situation with a bit of maturity and come up with solid solutions for the good of Waterford Gaa.

Agree with you
Don’t forget, it was a double header that day also. So attendance that day was skewed.

willbeuptuesday

Just reading through a Forum Titled 'Disgraceful Waterford' on Hogan Stand, Jesus there is some poisonous people out there who hate us. The last post was interesting-

" Time for structural change in Waterford, if you want to see change that will enable us to develop Gaa I. Waterford please sign this petition and share it with people who care about our future.

http://chng.it/XtTrdLkvLw
Déisesupporter (Waterford) - Posts: 2 -


Not sure if the link will work I just copied and pasted it from their site.

conor05

Spatters wrote: »

willbeuptuesday wrote: »

Lads the buzz has gone out of hurling in this county for a while, the attendances at club games is pathetic and our county finals must be the poorest supported in Ireland. I know we had over 3500 last year because it was Abbeysides first final in a while but normally it would be lower than that. We have no sense of occasion at our finals, when was the last time you saw a parade before the final? This does not happen in other counties, there is a general malaise towards Gaa at the moment. Our championships are really not that competitive, you can loose two rounds and still qualify. We have no leagues worth talking about, I'll have money with anyone willing to bet that this years leagues wont finish. Does this happen in other counties? We need to come up with meaningful competitions which capture the imagination of the players and supports alike. The only way to develop players is in good hard competitive games. I know I have being banging on about this for a while but we need a sub committee of independent people who will do a root and branch review of Waterford hurling from U6 to Senior and develop a plan that will help us to compete on a consistent basis. If this has been done before can anyone post a link to it, if it has n't why so? We need to reflect on the current situation with a bit of maturity and come up with solid solutions for the good of Waterford Gaa.

Agree with you
Don’t forget, it was a double header that day also. So attendance that day was skewed.

That’s very low. I have attended 3 or 4 Kerry hurling county finals over the years between Lixnaw, Kilmoyley, Ballyduff etc and the attendance would be between 4K to 5,000 for a Stand alone final.

5948ai

Club finals used to draw big attendances in the late nineties and into the noughties, especially during the Mount Sion - Ballygunner tussles. They used to be around the 10/11k mark at the height. It's been steadily falling since unfortunately... mainly due to the Gunners dominance and a bit of supporter fatigue in general. As stated here previously that 08 hammering by KK really did turnoff the casual fan in the county.... A lot have not turned back on unfortunately!

Motivator

Sunday looks to be a real watershed moment for Waterford hurling. People around the county are not happy one bit and for the first time I think the blame is being pointed at everyone. Years ago it was the players fault, or the manager or the county board but I’ve never seen the entire set up from top to bottom receive such criticism.

We’ve had bad beatings before and we’ll get them again but the manner of defeat is what has shocked and honestly disgusted a lot of people and the fallout from Sunday is showing no signs of letting up. I fear the worst is yet to come and I honestly don’t know what will happen if we get another hiding on Saturday evening.

Whoever people attribute the blame to, the bottom line is this is a very sad situation for all concerned and there are nor will there be any winners when all this eventually subsides.

Jjjjjjjjbarry

Really looking forward to seeing the team for Saturday. Should be interesting. Will it be named tomorrow as it’s a Sat game? May as well just enjoy the experience and trip to Cork. Déise Abú! (Trying to be positive)

_blaaz

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Really looking forward to seeing the team for Saturday. Should be interesting. Will it be named tomorrow as it’s a Sat game? May as well just enjoy the experience and trip to Cork. Déise Abú! (Trying to be positive)

Tbh i havnt missed a championship.game when living in ireland in over 20 years and very few away league games...seen a fair few hammerings too


I cant see any reason to justify going down to cork sat night....why waste money and time going,if they cant be arsed to put in the effort,.....way im feeling now,idk would i even bother to attend a match again next year

liogairmhordain

_blaaz wrote: »

I cant see any reason to justify going down to cork sat night....why waste money and time going,if they cant be arsed to put in the effort,.....way im feeling now,idk would i even bother to attend a match again next year

There's always reasons to go.

First and foremost to see who fronts up after the debacle last Sunday (and against Tipp which wasn't a whole lot better). There's a chance that we'll see the same lack of effort again, in which case we might as well be there for the death of Waterford hurling.

Second of all it'll be six months until our next match and 11+ months until our next championship match. (Whether in the Liam McCarthy or Joe McDonagh cup).

Third of all to see how lads who haven't played a whole lot for the county, but who we are going to need in years to come, get on up against Pat Horgan, Seamus Harnedy, Mark Coleman etc etc. Not to mention the minors, 2 or 3 of whom look to me that like serious hurlers who'll play many years for us at senior.

Fourth of all there's a fair chance that we'll never again get a chance to see some of these lads play for Waterford again. Walsh and Moran especially. No point in revisiting the tributes to Walsh again after last year. Word is that Moran is thinking of retirement - he had a shocker last Sunday but he's been magnificent for us over the years since 2006. His point at the end of normal time against Kilkenny in 2013 will never be forgotten. His goal against Galway in the all-Ireland final dragged us back into a game that looked like it might turn into a repeat of 2008.

Fifth of all there's a tiny minuscule 1% chance that we might beat Cork in their own back yard in a game they have to win. In which case there'll be thousands of Waterford people claiming to have been there in years to come.

puzl

I'm going on Saturday because in the immortal words of John Mullane "I love me county".

farmerval

Just a thought here but does the current championship really mitigate against a team going badly.
Waterford look to be in disarray right now but the current setup of matches on top of each other is really highlighting the problems. Under previous set ups one loss or two if in a backdoor and the year is over. in this one the agony lingers on and on.
Most counties have had bad year(s) but before it was over quickly and there was time for things hopefully to improve in the background before building for the following year.

redlead

I don't know how anyone could travel down to Cork after the complete lack of respect for the jersey, supporters and management that was shown last week. As the saying goes fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

Jerry Atrick

Pressure is totally off the lads now, even a half decent showing is going to be well received after the last two games. Think we'll motor well for 45/50 mins and Cork will pull away.

bemmet

Waterford are playing . It’s munster championship and I will be there.
The best sign that can be sent to this team right now is that county is county and whatever the obstacles you do what you can do to drive on.

I am not there to support an atrocious neandetheral county board . I am there to support my county and hope that we can deliver a performance which demonstrates the potential that exists within the squad and with those who carry on into next year to be joined by more newcomers to assault 2020 and beyond.

We also I fear need new management. Nice guy he may but his ship unfortunately is holed too significantly to carry on over the closed season and into a new year. The confidence has gone and the belief is parked in his case. A man of honour and a man of huge effort no doubt however change is so obviously needed.

And lastly I will be there to thank Brick and perhaps one or two others who delivered us both great days and great hope.

killbillvol2

Well I'll be in Cork as a few of us decided to make a weekend of it when the draw came out. We'll have a fair few scoops before the game to ease the pain.

On the point re falling support since 2008, it was unfortunate that the appalling all Ireland final result coincided with the recession biting hard.
Most people had to cut back significantly in some area and taking a family to a Munster Championship game was an obvious cutback. It wasn't even a choice for a lot of people, they absolutely couldn't afford it.
I cut out some significant expenses from my life over that time and I've never gone back to most of them. You manage without or get out of the habit. There's almost a generation that haven't been brought to games as kids and a huge number of adults who've fallen out of the habit.
Watching the fare over the last few years won't encourage them back or develop any first time supporters. A full generation will be lost if things continue as they are.