Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

BOSTIK

Faugheen wrote: »

Barret was clearly trying to play the ball.

Honestly, what game were you watching?

There's no comparison between Barrett and Richie. Barrett tried to play the ball, Richie tried to play the man.

And there you have it.

James Owens was clearly reluctant to dismiss Richie Hogan, which is why he took his time to make the decision and consulted with his team of officials. Allegations that Barrett was playacting or feigning injury are risible, he was completely blindsided and the replays clearly show his neck jerk movements after absorbing the blow.

Cody's reaction to him was fair cold, I'd agree that the cameras shouldn't be focusing on any player who's been ordered from the field.

Last Stop

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

What price was the programme

€7!! Steep enough considering the ****e in them nowadays and it’s almost impossible to find where the team sheets are. At least both teams started as selected though.

Doctors room ghost

Last Stop wrote: »

€7!! Steep enough considering the ****e in them nowadays and it’s almost impossible to find where the team sheets are. At least both teams started as selected though.

It is steep as right. The guts of a tenner.4-5 euro would be plenty for it

pissedasanewt

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

What price was the programme

€7 and very poor player profiles. No age, height stuff.. just a picture, their club and scores for the season.

freedominacup

laoisfan wrote: »

Dangerous challenge...elbow to head...the rules at the start of the year said anything from the neck up was a red card offence.

That's fine. So long as the ref is consistent. If he was then Maher should have kept Hogan company when he was walking off. A fraction of a second before Hogan hit the tipp player Maher tore Walter Walsh to the ground off the ball by the neck and head within 5 metres of the Hogan incident. Not a coming together, not there was a pair of them at it, Walsh simply caught around the neck and head and hauled onto the ground. Should have been two reds and a free in to kilkenny. Speaking as a Waterford man.

Redsoxfan

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Fully agree, no need for it and it's not right.

This is an American convention as far as I can tell, they love to focus on players on the sideline who have dropped passes, fumbled the ball etc.

pissedasanewt

tibruit wrote: »

Barretts tackle on Hogan was head high, dangerous, with no attempt to play the ball and resulted in a visible facial injury. Once the ref let that go, he should have let the later one go as well as there was minimal contact and no injury, just a lot of theatrics that created an initial impression that the tackle was far worse than it actually was.

I'm glad Barret was ok. I thought he had been taken down by a sniper at first. If he had been hit as hard as he implied he surely would have needed a HIA or blood injury..

mullinr2

Just watched the first 10 minutes of the second half where Tipp completely steamrolled us. A number of questions have to asked.
Firstly, we were really naive coming out in the second half. Management should have set the team in a more defensive manner to keep us in it. Play a sweeper at this stage.
Secondly, why was Bubbles on his own. You had two Tipp forwards and five kilkenny backs, yet he was allowed to roam into position unnoticed. Paul Murphy saw it happening, but was too slow to react.
Thirdly, why stay playing the long john bull type ball into the forwards when it clearly was not working. Do we not know how to play it into the wings?
Fourth, The Tipp set up seemed far more energetic and innovative. Sheedy and O Shea are very innovative and motivation coaches. Callinan even said they had Eoin Kelly coming in helping them out.
If Cody does stay he will need to freshen up his backroom team.

All our 3 teams were well beaten. What stood out the most is our lack of natural talent especially in our forwards. Richie Hogan has natural talent. Tipperary have 5 Richie Hogans

Gentleman Off The Pitch

BOSTIK wrote: »

And there you have it.

James Owens was clearly reluctant to dismiss Richie Hogan, which is why he took his time to make the decision and consulted with his team of officials. Allegations that Barrett was playacting or feigning injury are risible, he was completely blindsided and the replays clearly show his neck jerk movements after absorbing the blow.

Cody's reaction to him was fair cold, I'd agree that the cameras shouldn't be focusing on any player who's been ordered from the field.

These neck movements that you write of were accompanied by throwing the head back in a direction not in keeping with the direction of the hit and throwing arms back up in the air. Hogan deserved a red by the rules but Barrett did his best to get it for him

kilkennyboy

Last Stop wrote: »

€7!! Steep enough considering the ****e in them nowadays and it’s almost impossible to find where the team sheets are. At least both teams started as selected though.

Right in a hurling lunatic and will defend the gaa to the end but I'm starting to feel a bit like the prize cow who could be maybe milked a few more times a day.

Yesterday was a big day in our house first all Ireland for
2 kids
4 tickets 3rows from back wall in hogan 729 €360
Diesel in paulstown € 60
3 program (kids souvenir ok foolishly) € 21
One drink in hogan each € 19
4 chips after minior match € 20
One drink in croke park hotel €25
Dinner in city west yesterday (best value) €30

Total €525 getting out of hand I know the argument for
Money back to clubs is their and kids have been at every game this year for€5 that is fair enough. but if we weren't getting fleeced every time we go to a game we probably wouldn't need croke park money.

Kids were laughing at the setups in clonliffe with sandwiches tables and tea parties they may get to like it

BOSTIK

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

These neck movements that you write of were accompanied by throwing the head back in a direction not in keeping with the direction of the hit and throwing arms back up in the air. Hogan deserved a red by the rules but Barrett did his best to get it for him

Yeah, I suppose he should've gotten out of Richie's way.

BOSTIK

mullinr2 wrote: »

Just watched the first 10 minutes of the second half where Tipp completely steamrolled us. A number of questions have to asked.
Firstly, we were really naive coming out in the second half. Management should have set the team in a more defensive manner to keep us in it. Play a sweeper at this stage.
Secondly, why was Bubbles on his own. You had two Tipp forwards and five kilkenny backs, yet he was allowed to roam into position unnoticed. Paul Murphy saw it happening, but was too slow to react.
Thirdly, why stay playing the long john bull type ball into the forwards when it clearly was not working. Do we not know how to play it into the wings?
Fourth, The Tipp set up seemed far more energetic and innovative. Sheedy and O Shea are very innovative and motivation coaches. Callinan even said they had Eoin Kelly coming in helping them out.
If Cody does stay he will need to freshen up his backroom team.

All our 3 teams were well beaten. What stood out the most is our lack of natural talent especially in our forwards. Richie Hogan has natural talent. Tipperary have 5 Richie Hogans

Probably a need for fresh thinking alright.

Though I think if KK folk had been told at the end of the league that they'd be one of the last two standing in August they'd have been happy enough.

No squad can absorb the defections, retirements, injuries et al since the 2006-2015 crew were in their pomp and not endure a few fallow years. Sure the 2014-15 all-Irelands were won coming back down the stairs.

holyhead

BOSTIK wrote: »

Yeah, I suppose he should've gotten out of Richie's way.

He made a meal of it. Gamesmanship and lucky not to have been sent off himself for his slap on Richie earlier

Pigeon Chaser

It's unfortunate that some of us can no seem to accept we were beaten by a better team. The red call was a subjective call and the ref made the call as he saw it. The additional consultation time he took was to his credit. At the game I was of course angry and thought it was harsh. Looking at the replays Hogan was foolish and deserved to walk. Its a shame we seem to be going down the route of the Limerick fans cribbing about refereeing injustices. That is sport, swings and roundabouts.

Plus, all it does is deflect from our dismal second half performance. Barring a few shining lights (Huw, Joey, Donnelly, TJ) we were woeful. The most disappointing aspect was the lack of direction from the line. It was caveman stuff, launching high balls into a full forward line that was totally outnumbered.

I think it is time to thank Brian Cody for his service and ask him to step down. It is time to give somebody else a chance. He is, and will remain the GAA's greatest ever manager. For about 6 years now we have been utterly one dimensional and predictable. We seem to be unable to react to adversity and to go down so timidly to Tipp in 2 finals is not good enough. Ultimately management take responsibility.

This was raised after the Leinster final. I was one of the first to shoot it down and said it was a discussion to be had when the season is over. That time is now. Decide who is interested, identify who you want and allow them have a good look at the club campaign.

Cody wouldn't be short of offers from clubs. And even other counties. In fact I would love to see what he could do with wexford...

Cornerback1

Faugheen wrote: »

Barret was clearly trying to play the ball.

Honestly, what game were you watching?

There's no comparison between Barrett and Richie. Barrett tried to play the ball, Richie tried to play the man.

If that's your logic, Benny Dunne shouldn't have been sent off for pulling across Tommy Walsh in the final a few years ago....ahh, sure he tried to play the ball!!!!

someyoke

Pigeon Chaser wrote: »

It's unfortunate that some of us can no seem to accept we were beaten by a better team. The red call was a subjective call and the ref made the call as he saw it. The additional consultation time he took was to his credit. At the game I was of course angry and thought it was harsh. Looking at the replays Hogan was foolish and deserved to walk. Its a shame we seem to be going down the route of the Limerick fans cribbing about refereeing injustices. That is sport, swings and roundabouts.

Plus, all it does is deflect from our dismal second half performance. Barring a few shining lights (Huw, Joey, Donnelly, TJ) we were woeful. The most disappointing aspect was the lack of direction from the line. It was caveman stuff, launching high balls into a full forward line that was totally outnumbered.

I think it is time to thank Brian Cody for his service and ask him to step down. It is time to give somebody else a chance. He is, and will remain the GAA's greatest ever manager. For about 6 years now we have been utterly one dimensional and predictable. We seem to be unable to react to adversity and to go down so timidly to Tipp in 2 finals is not good enough. Ultimately management take responsibility.

This was raised after the Leinster final. I was one of the first to shoot it down and said it was a discussion to be had when the season is over. That time is now. Decide who is interested, identify who you want and allow them have a good look at the club campaign.

Cody wouldn't be short of offers from clubs. And even other counties. In fact I would love to see what he could do with wexford...

Limerick cribbing about fact (clear deflection not given for 65), not referees interpretation (Richie sending off)

Joe Daly

Faugheen wrote: »

Barret was clearly trying to play the ball.

Honestly, what game were you watching?

There's no comparison between Barrett and Richie. Barrett tried to play the ball, Richie tried to play the man.

If he was playing the ball why did he hit a man across the head the ball was down nearly at knee level , or did he think it was in Richie mouth.

Marty Xavier

Owens missed the Barrett pull on Hogan, it was probably a red card by the letter of the law but I see that same swing happening more and more in games and it is rarely correctly reffed more of then than not it is a yellow. The fact it was neither was poor from Owens and suggests he may have missed it altogether and just blew because he thought it was just a foul.
Richie Hogan did eye up Barrett on the sideline and went to blow him into the stands, because Barrett checked his run Hogan was going to miss him and looked like he decided to hit him anyway thus it was late and high, but red card all day long.
Ye would be mad to get rid of Cody...mad.

kilkennyboy

Joe Daly wrote: »

If he was playing the ball why did he hit a man across the head the ball was down nearly at knee level , or did he think it was in Richie mouth.

Absolute rubbish anyone that is arguing over the barrett foul on richie needs to look a the clip again.i have attached a pic and he only misses the ball by a fraction.
Stop embarrassing the rest of us who can see what happened. If he gets a touch its great defending

Faugheen

Joe Daly wrote: »

If he was playing the ball why did he hit a man across the head the ball was down nearly at knee level , or did he think it was in Richie mouth.

The ball wasn't at knee level. You're actually making things up here.

Joe Daly

kilkennyboy wrote: »

Glad I cleared that up for you.

Who said you did.

bruschi

Joe Daly wrote: »

If he was playing the ball why did he hit a man across the head the ball was down nearly at knee level , or did he think it was in Richie mouth.

knee level.



he was trying to flick it away and barely missed

kilkennyboy

Joe Daly wrote: »

Who said you did.

Did you look at the picture f the ball.I attached then look at richie's knee and measure how far off you are

adrian522

kilkennyboy wrote: »

Absolute rubbish anyone that is arguing over the barrett foul on richie needs to look a the clip again.i have attached a pic and he only misses the ball by a fraction.
Stop embarrassing the rest of us who can see what happened. If he gets a touch its great defending

I don't really want to get into this argument but there is no exception in the rules about going for the ball. If we are talking about implementing the rules as they are written its a red card. In fact I'd say if the laws were to be enforced consistently there would have been a lot more red cards this season but I can't think of many being issued at all.

Off the top of my head Cillian Buckley, John McGrath, Ronan Maher, Bill Cooper could all have seen straight reds but none of them did. (McGrath got a second yellow)

I don't think anyone wants to see a situation where there are red cards much more frequently but it is very frustrating to see the letter of the law obeyed in this instance when its been ignored so often this season.

I think its fair to say Kilkenny were a mess in the second half and had no idea how to play or what to do, it was really embarrassing.

If it had stayed 15 v 15 I don't think Kilkenny would have won but to suggest the scoreline would have been the same is pretty fanciful. I could have seen Tipp running out winners by 3-5 points but unfortunately we will never know.

Hopefully Richie comes back to Inter county hurling next year.

Seadin

tibruit wrote: »

You know, as I was at the game and I haven`t watched the full replay, I`m not exactly sure. But I`m guessing that Tipp were a point ahead. Given yere inclination to buckle down the final stretch in tight games over the years, I`d say we were still in with a shout until the ref intervened.

There was going to be only one winner yesterday and it wasn't going to be the cats. Tipp had KK on the ropes well before the ref intervened with the red. Tipp rarely buckle in finals. They trimmed the cats in 3 All Ireland finals in this decade and have had more success in head to head final appearances. I wouldn't call that buckling.

Last Stop

kilkennyboy wrote: »

Absolute rubbish anyone that is arguing over the barrett foul on richie needs to look a the clip again.i have attached a pic and he only misses the ball by a fraction.
Stop embarrassing the rest of us who can see what happened. If he gets a touch its great defending

“IF he gets a touch”. If Barrett hadn’t taken a step back Richie would have put him in the third row shoulder to shoulder. Coming in at head height with the hurl over the shoulder shows a lack of control and is very dangerous. The fact is he didn’t get the ball and got the man instead. Both were red cards but only one was given.

kilkennyboy

adrian522 wrote: »

I don't really want to get into this argument but there is no exception in the rules about going for the ball. If we are talking about implementing the rules as they are written its a red card. In fact I'd say if the laws were to be enforced consistently there would have been a lot more red cards this season but I can't think of many being issued at all.

Off the top of my head Cillian Buckley, John McGrath, Ronan Maher, Bill Cooper could all have seen straight reds but none of them did. (McGrath got a second yellow)

I don't think anyone wants to see a situation where there are red cards much more frequently but it is very frustrating to see the letter of the law obeyed in this instance when its been ignored so often this season.

I think its fair to say Kilkenny were a mess in the second half and had no idea how to play or what to do, it was really embarrassing.

If it had stayed 15 v 15 I don't think Kilkenny would have won but to suggest the scoreline would have been the same is pretty fanciful. I could have seen Tipp running out winners by 3-5 points but unfortunately we will never know.

Hopefully Richie comes back to Inter county hurling next year.

I pretty much said all that in a earlier post.
But we are grasping at straws if we think barrett should have seen red .possible yellow for careless use.

Powerhouse

kilkennyboy wrote: »

Babs was back in working on the parade behind the Sean Tracey pipers

To be fair this extra work showed on the day. While TJ Reid was running around the place during the parade Tipperary stayed in formation even after Kilkenny broke away. You cannot beat attention to detail.

savannahkat

Marty Xavier wrote: »

Owens missed the Barrett pull on Hogan, it was probably a red card by the letter of the law but I see that same swing happening more and more in games and it is rarely correctly reffed more of then than not it is a yellow. The fact it was neither was poor from Owens and suggests he may have missed it altogether and just blew because he thought it was just a foul.
Richie Hogan did eye up Barrett on the sideline and went to blow him into the stands, because Barrett checked his run Hogan was going to miss him and looked like he decided to hit him anyway thus it was late and high, but red card all day long.
Ye would be mad to get rid of Cody...mad.

It was an All Ireland Final. It was nearly half time. It had poured torrential rain for parts of the first half.The incident had to been seen in slow time to pin point the moment and the exact location of the impact. There was enough to give Ritchie the benefit of the doubt but that is all it would have been as the connection did happen but it is also apparent intent to injure was not there. It was a clumsy effort but it did happen. A yellow was more than enough.

dubcat51

Pigeon Chaser wrote: »

It's unfortunate that some of us can no seem to accept we were beaten by a better team. The red call was a subjective call and the ref made the call as he saw it. The additional consultation time he took was to his credit. At the game I was of course angry and thought it was harsh. Looking at the replays Hogan was foolish and deserved to walk. Its a shame we seem to be going down the route of the Limerick fans cribbing about refereeing injustices. That is sport, swings and roundabouts.

Plus, all it does is deflect from our dismal second half performance. Barring a few shining lights (Huw, Joey, Donnelly, TJ) we were woeful. The most disappointing aspect was the lack of direction from the line. It was caveman stuff, launching high balls into a full forward line that was totally outnumbered.

I think it is time to thank Brian Cody for his service and ask him to step down. It is time to give somebody else a chance. He is, and will remain the GAA's greatest ever manager. For about 6 years now we have been utterly one dimensional and predictable. We seem to be unable to react to adversity and to go down so timidly to Tipp in 2 finals is not good enough. Ultimately management take responsibility.

This was raised after the Leinster final. I was one of the first to shoot it down and said it was a discussion to be had when the season is over. That time is now. Decide who is interested, identify who you want and allow them have a good look at the club campaign.

Cody wouldn't be short of offers from clubs. And even other counties. In fact I would love to see what he could do with wexford...

How can you say we were beaten by the better team when we had 14 v 15.game was just coming to the boil when richie went.In fact for most of the first half we were the better team.Its one if thise things in sport we will never no what the outcome would have been 15 v 15.