Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Hammer Archer

Continued from here.
Previous thread has reached 10,000 posts.

Mod Note:
Welcome to the Kilkenny GAA Discussion thread.
This is quite an active thread and as a result, discussion can get quite heated. But there are certain things posters must realise are simply not OK to post:

- Personal abuse of anyone be they other posters, players, managers, referees, pundits etc. Any personal abuse will result in an infraction or a ban.

- Rumours about players'/managers'/anyone's personal lives. This should be self explanatory. Apart from being a dickish thing to do, it can lead to legal trouble for Boards.

- Trolling. Again, self explanatory. Trolls will be banned for a long time.

- Accusations of trolling. Report a post if you suspect it to be trolling. Do not call a troll out on thread as this will be considered back seat modding.

- Speculation into the identity of another poster. This is a site-bannable offence.

This list is not exhaustive. Either myself or another mod may add to this as we see fit. Just because a certain behaviour isn't listed, doesn't mean you can't be banned for it.
The general Boards.ie rule of Don't be a Dick always applies.

If you feel a post breaks the rules, simply click this underneath the post in question to report the post and a mod will deal with it as they see fit.

So be civil to each other and happy posting.

brookville

aidankkk wrote: »

Amprodude wrote: »

Galway were at about 75% today and beat Kilkenny rather easy in the end. I think Kilkenny will fear a Galway team at 90%.

That Galway team were not at 75%, they were flying into every tackle. They are easily the best team, but were mad for it today.

This galway team is on the go 4 or five years there way ahead of us at the minute.they've a settled team and no real injuries.we are trying to blood lads like mossy,delaney etc.we're missing kevin kelly,aylward and hogan and colin was poor today and tj wasnt as effective today.we have 2 weeks to get things right because wexford is now a must win.look at the difference between conor whelan and scanlon or sheehan.we hung in there for 55 mins untill their strenght and bench told and our heads dropped after that we'll learn from it and concentrate on wexford

Amprodude

aidankkk wrote: »

That Galway team were not at 75%, they were flying into every tackle. They are easily the best team, but were mad for it today.

They did what was required to win the game. That was Galway today playing at 75%. They would up their game again if they had to.

greenspurs

Amprodude wrote: »

They did what was required to win the game. That was Galway today playing at 75%. They would up their game again if they had to.

I would say they were at 83% ..... :rolleyes:

Why does their percentage of requirement matter so much to you?
It doesn't matter, they were a long way better than the KK team, all over the pitch.
KK wont win the all Ireland, the vast majority of KK supporters know that, so theres no need to come in trying to ram that down peoples throats...

brookville

Infairness most supporters yesterday before the match were looking for a good performance with maybe a 5 or 6 point defeat and maybe if our goal stood earlier in the match things could of being slightly different but galway had a few goal chances aswell.
We all were worried bout the full back line but padraig and deegan were good.
The problem yesterday was our fowards were cleaned out we couldnt win any puck outs or breaks galway were much sharper.
If wexford beat galway this weekend and we beat wexford and galway beat dublin it'll come down to scoring difference is it?

Topcat32

brookville wrote: »

Infairness most supporters yesterday before the match were looking for a good performance with maybe a 5 or 6 point defeat and maybe if our goal stood earlier in the match things could of being slightly different but galway had a few goal chances aswell.
We all were worried bout the full back line but padraig and deegan were good.
The problem yesterday was our fowards were cleaned out we couldnt win any puck outs or breaks galway were much sharper.
If wexford beat galway this weekend and we beat wexford and galway beat dublin it'll come down to scoring difference is it?

Same rules as the league, so it will go to score difference in that case.

Nickindublin

The biggest disappointment I had from yesterday’s game was our lack of scores from play. Cody will learn a lot from the game and the young players will come on for the game. Pitch was terrible. We are a long way behind Galway on yesterday’s game. I hope we improve as the championship progresses. The 2 weeks break will do us good hopefully.

mullinr2

Nickindublin wrote: »

The biggest disappointment I had from yesterday’s game was our lack of scores from play. Cody will learn a lot from the game and the young players will come on for the game. Pitch was terrible. We are a long way behind Galway on yesterday’s game. I hope we improve as the championship progresses. The 2 weeks break will do us good hopefully.

The lack of scores from play is a major concern. That's two games - Dublin and Galway, where we have been really poor. Are our forwards really that bad that they cannot move into some space and create scoring opportunities.? What are they working on in training.
There is little to no movement from the kk forwards

Topcat32

mullinr2 wrote: »

The lack of scores from play is a major concern. That's two games - Dublin and Galway, where we have been really poor. Are our forwards really that bad that they cannot move into some space and create scoring opportunities.? What are they working on in training.
There is little to no movement from the kk forwards

Inexperienced more than bad I think.

I mean imagine if the Kilkenny team of even 2011 to 2012 came up against a forward line with two forwards who have 2 years left at under 21 and two 22 year olds, you would sort of expect them to clear that forward line out regardless of how promising those players were.

JJs Left Hand

Its a consequence of how high our half back line are playing as well. If they're playing higher than our 65 as they were for large parts of yesterday then the midfield pushes up 10 yards and so does the half forward line reducing the space for anyone to move into. The lack of open space in our forwards compared to the acres in front of our full back line was noticeable yesterday. Caused in the main by Canning dropping into midfield and Bucks following him instead of passing him off to Fogarty and sitting back in a pocket.


Also what Topcat said

Village87

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Another worry is Buckleys use of the ball in the last 3 games which has been atrocious

Scanlon was the big/only real positive today

I highlighted before about Buckley poor striking & distribution, hurting Kilkenny at present. Teams are putting him under big pressure when he gets on the ball and finds it hard to get rid of it, most teams are well aware of this.
Conor Fogarty is the same, gets turned over a lot in possession, terrible in possession compared to David Burke & Johnny Coen,Richie Leahy & James Maher cleaned Tipp in the league final and should be Kilkennys midfield.

Luke Scanlon hurled well yesterday along with Walter Walsh who is obviously not 100%. Walter laid on the ball for Luke who got fouled for the peno. Scored a dissollowed goal and another at the end. Massive influence on the game.

Kilkenny style makes it very hard for forwards to express themselves. Only have 2/3 in there own half at any giving time. Half forwards play deep and if the full line doesn't win it first time up kk usually turn over possession

RayVaughan1984

That Scanlon looks a promising player.Scored a great point out on the wing first half.
Walter Walsh's goal was spectacular.
KK should beat Wexford at Home after they exhaust every sinew vs Galway!

RayVaughan1984

Village87 wrote: »

I highlighted before about Buckley poor striking & distribution, hurting Kilkenny at present. Teams are putting him under big pressure when he gets on the ball and finds it hard to get rid of it, most teams are well aware of this.
Conor Fogarty is the same, gets turned over a lot in possession, terrible in possession compared to David Burke & Johnny Coen,Richie Leahy & James Maher cleaned Tipp in the league final and should be Kilkennys midfield.

Luke Scanlon hurled well yesterday along with Walter Walsh who is obviously not 100%. Walter laid on the ball for Luke who got fouled for the peno. Scored a dissollowed goal and another at the end. Massive influence on the game.

Kilkenny style makes it very hard for forwards to express themselves. Only have 2/3 in there own half at any giving time. Half forwards play deep and if the full line doesn't win it first time up kk usually turn over possession

Daithi Burke should really have got a straight red.He has form,ripping off Bonners helmet a few years ago.And Ref bottled it massively by failing to book McInerney.
Leahy certainly should start.

Hawkeye6

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

We’ve seen all but one team (Waterford) in action in the provincial championships at this stage. Have we anyone to really fear based on the evidence to date? I think not. We beat Dublin by 2 points, so did Wexford, but Pat Gilroy is quoted as saying Dublin never got to the intensity of the previous week. Galway beat Offaly by 12 points and scored five goals. We beat Offaly by 9 points and should easily have scored 5 goals or more and finished with 21 wides. Yes scores on the board are the ones that matter, but we’re not too far behind Galway. Galway conceded 2-15, we conceded 1-13 to Offaly. Galway are not too far behind us in the defensive duties either. You’d expect the reigning All-Ireland champions to be still slightly ahead of a young transitional team, especially playing in their own patch, (all four results yesterday were home wins), and the stats are slightly in their favour, but a week might tell a story. It will be interesting to see if the week off helps or hinders them. The important thing is to continue developing and being competitive.

In Munster, the two teams that beat us in the League Cork and Clare went head to head. Of the two in the league, Cork was the one that probably got away and yet they were the deserved winners against Clare. Tipperary look in bother. Limerick still have ammunition with the Na Piarsaigh lads to return, but that could be a double-edged sword. All in all we are in with a very good shout and we are in bonus territory in 2018. However, we have a lot of impatient supporters to please. One poster has already referred to it. The giving out about lumping the ball down on the forwards aimlessly last year. Now we are playing a different type of game, more high risk for defenders and lads are still complaining. Yes, Joey made two mistakes yesterday, but he wasn’t the only one. Some supporters might have been gone to the toilet when the others erred. We have now won 8 competitive games in a row plus one national trophy. Not bad for a young developing team with a developing game plan. The constant has been the full back line and yet the constant complaints have been about the full back line.

Personally, my main wish for the Leinster Championship is that Offaly beat Dublin and Dublin are relegated. Not that I bear any malice towards Dublin, but I think it might be the factor (because of the money element) that will make HQ rethink the stupid and unfair relegation system in the Leinster championship. I don’t believe if Offaly are relegated it will set alarm bells running with the suits.

Galway were the better team on the day. As Brian Cody always says, the scoreboard doesn’t lie. We in Kilkenny have to remember we are in bonus territory with a developing squad. Most informed observers reckoned Galway were still a few points better than us at this stage, but there is still a few months left in the season. Up to about 10 minutes to go we were still there and in with a chance, our young players certainly gave me great optimism for the future with the way they took to the battle against the most physical team in the country at the moment and the reigning All-Ireland champions. Observations…

We’ll get the course out of the way first. The rough was challenging and the bunkers deep. Even the greens could have been better. Pearce Stadium however is bigger in area than both Nowlan Park and Croke Park, but the conditions definitely suited a more physical and bigger team with the low ball option not ideal in those circumstances.

Kilkenny and Offaly were the first counties to play three consecutive weekends with this new format. Neither showed the energy of previous games. Is it a coincidence? These are amateur players who have day jobs during the week playing to a professional level. There is bound to be a certain affect factor. Davy Fitzgerald referred to this too. Galway had a two weeks coming into this game.It will be interesting to see how the counties that have games four weeks in a row get on and how they get on subsequently as well. These stats are important to look back at come the year-end review of this format.

I previously referred to the “constant” that was the Kilkenny full back line. Just saying… Joey Holden is not popular with a lot of supporters, but the stats tell a different story with the demise of our unbeaten run. Popularity is not always a good thing. One very popular player once again got on plenty of ball but the distribution was poor again. I refer to Cillian Buckley. When he makes this type of mistake there seems to be a massive queue of Kilkenny fans at the toilets and they miss it. Scores conceded did result. If Cillian improves this part of his game, it will be immense for the team and I have no doubt he will, but let’s not overlook where he is now when nit picking other backs.

At inter county level there is a fine line between success and failure. I believe our young players are coming along nicely. There are learning and will continue to learn. If Martin Keoghan had batted that ball in the first minute like a more experienced player rather than swung the hurley, who knows. The fact is he didn’t, but the fact also is, he also got into that position with the ball.

The Galway penalty. I’m struggling to see it on the few viewings I’ve seen. Conor Whelan took 7 steps in possession of the ball. Two Kilkenny players bottled him up. A penalty is awarded. Paddy Deegan is yellow carded. Why Paddy Deegan and why not Padraig Walsh as well?Did I miss something that he did different to Padraig? There were two players involved. On the Sunday Game last night they raved about how three Tipp players bottled up a Cork player in the second half. This was deemed brilliant stuff. Yet nobody picked up on the harshness of the penalty decision in the same context or maybe the hypocrisy of the penalty award. I have no doubt had that taken place further out the field in the modern game, the free would have been for over carrying. Those are the breaks, those are the fine lines. On the other hand, the two disallowed goals, one for Galway and one for Kilkenny were both correct calls and excellent officiating with referee working with umpires.

A number of posters have said Wally was our best forward yesterday. I hate to criticise any player, But I did think Wally had a poor game yesterday by his standards. He fumbled a lot of ball. Burke catching the ball above his head should not have happened. Colin Fennelly was poor when introduced maybe highlighting why he wasn’t started. Paul Murphy started well, but as the game wore on he returned to the misjudgements that blighted his last two years, one in particular stood out. TJ was kept very quiet. The point being a lot of our more experienced players were not good overall. Yet we were well in the game with 10 minutes to go against the reigning All-Ireland champions and favourites, so I conclude our new players must be coming along nicely.

I hope and expect the Wexford game to be like an old fashioned Leinster Semi-Final. Obviously, if Wexford beat Galway we are pretty much banjaxed as regards winning Leinster, but if that happens it will undermine Galway outside Salthill and still make that last game important to win in Nowlan Park against a county playing their fourth week in a row. If we finished level on points with Galway and Wexford but fail on scores, I will be disappointed but not too disappointed as it will show that is not much between any county. If we make a Leinster Final in Croke Park against Galway, we can do better. Galway will still not look forward to that proposition.

The biggest disappointment for me over the weekend was Offaly’s capitulation against Wexford and the margin of defeat and their red cards.Suddenly survival against Dublin looks bleak and with it a review of the relegation format.

brookville

Topcat32 wrote: »

mullinr2 wrote: »

The lack of scores from play is a major concern. That's two games - Dublin and Galway, where we have been really poor. Are our forwards really that bad that they cannot move into some space and create scoring opportunities.? What are they working on in training.
There is little to no movement from the kk forwards

Inexperienced more than bad I think.

I mean imagine if the Kilkenny team of even 2011 to 2012 came up against a forward line with two forwards who have 2 years left at under 21 and two 22 year olds, you would sort of expect them to clear that forward line out regardless of how promising those players were.

I agree the easy thing yesterday to do was start colin and hogan but the only way donnelly and mossy will improve is getting game time.ive no doubt donnelly and these lads will be very good hurlers in a few years yesterday was always going to be a huge ask but there seems to be a hangover since the league final.
We're unlucky to be down hogan,kelly and alyward at the moment but the week off should help us and we should be fresher and playing at home will help.
Youd expect a few changes the next day leahy and colin will probably start in attack instead of mossy and donnelly and hopefully aylward back on the bench and hogan to make an appearance.Kevin kelly is making his way back and hopefully cleere can make the match day panel
Just wondering was morrissey deserve to be substituted yesterday?joey done well when he came on it must be said.
Hopefully we'll learn more from defeat yesterday but the last few matches our fowards are struggling we'll need a big improvement for the wexford match.

danganabu

Powerhouse wrote: »

danganabu wrote: »

I bet with my head not my heart, try it And yes I am a loyal supporter and was there yesterday and was there at the final whistle and will be there again the next time we go down for out inevitable beating. Days like yesterday are hard to stomach but its what make the victories all the sweeter. And I saw enough positives over the league campaign to suggest we are in a stronger position this year than where we were last year.

As an aside I am intrigued by your reasoning for downgrading Tipp to 4th/5th team in Munster, on your own admission (incorrectly but how and ever) they had a depleted team out with only one of their starting forwards and you were fully expectant that KK would win comfortably so on what basis are you reassessing their ranking in Munster and what exactly have any of the other 4 done to overtake them??[/QUOTE]

You were "intrigued" by my downgrading of Tipperary (a few months ago) to not being in the top 3 in Munster and any explanation I offered was rubbished by you. I hope that your intrigue is now satisfied.

You may have shot the load a bit soon there lad, you waited a good few months to post your 'bookmark' if only you had waited another 35 mins

Happyilylost wrote: »

Ger Loughnane also said Tipperary were finished and should take up gardening. I wouldn't read much into what they say. And I'd love to see Murphy and Skehill in the poc fada because I'd be backing Skehill. Maybe the analysts were trying to make things a bit intriguing for the second half as the first was so poor. Wind was in it (always is in Salthill) but I didn't think it was anyway near a five or seven point swing.

Loughnane also claimed that Tipp had 3 defenders over 30 years of age and that they had no U21's on their panel........the man is stealing a living with rubbish cliches and regular non truths but gets way with it because everyone thinks he is a great laugh :rolleyes:

Joe_ Public

[QUOTE=danganabu;107121128


Loughnane also claimed that Tipp had 3 defenders over 30 years of age and that they had no U21's on their panel........the man is stealing a living with rubbish cliches and regular non truths but gets way with it because everyone thinks he is a great laugh :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Was only watching it this morning, he actually said 4. I could forgive someone thinking Paidi Maher had turned 30 by now but, still, where on earth was he getting the other 2? Tipp dont have 4 defenders over 30 on the entire panel, yet alone yesterdays starting 15.

greenspurs

danganabu wrote: »

Powerhouse wrote: »

You may have shot the load a bit soon there lad, you waited a good few months to post your 'bookmark' if only you had waited another 35 mins



Loughnane also claimed that Tipp had 3 defenders over 30 years of age and that they had no U21's on their panel........the man is stealing a living with rubbish cliches and regular non truths but gets way with it because everyone thinks he is a great laugh :rolleyes:

Does anyone pay attention to him anymore ? Hes like the eamonn Dunphy of the GAA now......
:rolleyes:

C__MC

Just dont get how kilkenny forwards (age regardless) cant' be more dangerous up front. Cork/Clare/Limerick all young forwards who have made their mark and lit up the championship in recent times

savannahkat

C__MC wrote: »

Just dont get how kilkenny forwards (age regardless) cant' be more dangerous up front. Cork/Clare/Limerick all young forwards who have made their mark and lit up the championship in recent times

That is easy to answer. They are playing amongst each other so it would be harder to look bad than look good such is the quality of defending in Munster.

Topcat32

C__MC wrote: »

Just dont get how kilkenny forwards (age regardless) cant' be more dangerous up front. Cork/Clare/Limerick all young forwards who have made their mark and lit up the championship in recent times

The counter argument to that is the likes of Conor Cooney who has had the experience of being subbed on an off within about 20 minutes in big championship games. Fast forward a few years and he is taking charge of games and killing teams off.

I would say that we do need to look at the strength and conditioning work done with the players from 18 to 21 as we seem to off the pace compared to a lot of the other counties in that area. The age profile of the senior panel and what they have been exposed to this year should help with that.

Hawkeye6

C__MC wrote: »

Just dont get how kilkenny forwards (age regardless) cant' be more dangerous up front. Cork/Clare/Limerick all young forwards who have made their mark and lit up the championship in recent times

And these young Cork/Clare/Limerick forwards have won how many senior or minor All-Irelands this century between them?

In the recent National League in Division 1A.
Kilkenny scored 4-106 (118)
Clare scored 5-95 (110)
Cork Scored 4-93 (105)
Of course Limerick in 1B did score 8-114 (138), thanks to 1-25 against Laois and 3-21 against Antrim, teams that are not competing in the Provincial championship.

I'm sorry I've forgotten what your point is.....

danganabu

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

And these young Cork/Clare/Limerick forwards have won how many senior or minor All-Irelands this century between them?

In the recent National League in Division 1A.
Kilkenny scored 4-106 (118)
Clare scored 5-95 (110)
Cork Scored 4-93 (105)
Of course Limerick in 1B did score 8-114 (138), thanks to 1-25 against Laois and 3-21 against Antrim, teams that are not competing in the Provincial championship.

I'm sorry I've forgotten what your point is.....

His point was silly but you using league scoring stats as a counter is equally daft to be honest.

FWIW Reid and Walsh would walk on to any team in the country, same applies to a fully fit Richie Hogan.

Irish Beef

Can any of ye remember the 2012 Leinster final, Final score Galway 2-21 Kilkenny 2-11, A very similar score to yesterdays match also Galway played a very physical in your face type game on that occasion also, Yesterdays match was even a bit closer and was in Galway. I'm not saying we'll beat them if we meet again but I wouldn't be too down over it. I never expected to win yesterday, the Wexford match was always going to be the more important one and is a must win match. Obviously we have a lot of work to do but I think we'll come on for that match, I'm a little surprised we didn't try a few short puckouts  do instead of dropping high balls down on top of our struggling half forward line all day. At least we have the week off to recover and hopefully Galway will beat Wexford to simplify the situation

minty81

Why wasn't Hogan sprung in last 15 min?

danganabu

minty81 wrote: »

Why wasn't Hogan sprung in last 15 min?

Yesterday was pretty much meaningless in the bigger scheme of things, bigger tests lay ahead and if he is not 110% it would be foolish to risk him, if that was a knockout game or if Dublin had of held on against KK you can bet your bottom dollar he would have been summonsed but yesterday was not the time.

dastardly00

Why is there such a need to make excuses that we lost yesterday...

The pitch didn't suit us...
The wind changed...
We have a few injuries...
It was still a close match with 10 minutes to go...
It's okay because in 2012 they beat us in Leinster then we won later in the year...

Galway were clearly the better team yesterday, and they didn't even need to be in top gear to do so. We need to just acknowledge that.

Irish Beef

If we acknowledge that will you be happy? There's no one denying that, there the all-Ireland champions after all, you think its going to be an easy job beating them in their own back yard. Everyone knew a win here was going to be unlikely. We have a very young inexperienced team and we still have work to do.

Steve

mod note: New thread started as the last one was over the 10k post limit.

brookville

Topcat32 wrote: »

C__MC wrote: »

Just dont get how kilkenny forwards (age regardless) cant' be more dangerous up front. Cork/Clare/Limerick all young forwards who have made their mark and lit up the championship in recent times

The counter argument to that is the likes of Conor Cooney who has had the experience of being subbed on an off within about 20 minutes in big championship games. Fast forward a few years and he is taking charge of games and killing teams off.

I would say that we do need to look at the strength and conditioning work done with the players from 18 to 21 as we seem to off the pace compared to a lot of the other counties in that area. The age profile of the senior panel and what they have been exposed to this year should help with that.

There strenght and conditioning coach is suppose to be excellent but they are a few years ahead of us in that regard and are probably the biggest team in the country but as we know you cant bulk up over night our lads are only starting off hopefully we'll see the benefit in the next couple of years.
We've struggled against dublin and now galway where both times their half back lines dominated but galway made us pay yesterday.i think we missed a trick not putting wally and tj on both wings because murphy had no where to go with puck outs and it was obvious we were getting cleaned here but we'll have to change things up going foward.

savannahkat

dastardly00 wrote: »

Why is there such a need to make excuses that we lost yesterday...

The pitch didn't suit us..  Definitely true and in addition in was in Galway.
The wind changed... Definitely true
We have a few injuries.. Definitely tue.
It was still a close match with 10 minutes to go.. Definitely true.
It's okay because in 2012 they beat us in Leinster then we won later in the year.. That we beat them after suffering a heavy defeat at their hand in 2012 Definitely true.

Galway were clearly the better team yesterday,  Definitely true

It is also true they were aided by the first three above and your last two points are simple facts of history now.

ClanofLams

RayVaughan1984 wrote: »

Daithi Burke should really have got a straight red.He has form,ripping off Bonners helmet a few years ago.And Ref bottled it massively by failing to book McInerney.
Leahy certainly should start.

That's Adrian Tuohy you are thinking off in relation to Bonner maher. Burke was lucky to stay on the pitch yesterday but he's far from a dirty player.

citykat

Jesus lads need to get a grip. Yesterdays game is practically meaningless in the grand scheme of things. It was always going to be difficult against Galway in Galway. The next and final game is far more important and the outcome of that far more significant. No harm in being brought back down to earth. Somebody mentioned 2012 and how useful the humbling in the leinster final eventually turned out to be. Galway are probably the best team in the country at the moment. Would I fear them? Not a bit. The panel hasn't changed that much over the last few years. They've folded often enough to us in the recent past to suggest to me that in a crunch against us they'll to do the same again.

danganabu

brookville wrote: »

There strenght and conditioning coach is suppose to be excellent.

Was with Tipp in '16 and with Galway last year, he certainly is putting together an incredibly impressive CV

brookville

danganabu wrote: »

brookville wrote: »

There strenght and conditioning coach is suppose to be excellent.

Was with Tipp in '16 and with Galway last year, he certainly is putting together an incredibly impressive CV

Turned down a role with munster i think aswell i think.he definitely has them in good condition.It'll be intresting to see how the next few weeks go for galway and wexford because we were flat yesterday but we havent being impressive so far in the championship i know these games are about winning but in particular our fowards have struggled.

MfMan

citykat wrote: »

Jesus lads need to get a grip. Yesterdays game is practically meaningless in the grand scheme of things. It was always going to be difficult against Galway in Galway. The next and final game is far more important and the outcome of that far more significant. No harm in being brought back down to earth. Somebody mentioned 2012 and how useful the humbling in the leinster final eventually turned out to be. Galway are probably the best team in the country at the moment. Would I fear them? Not a bit. The panel hasn't changed that much over the last few years. They've folded often enough to us in the recent past to suggest to me that in a crunch against us they'll to do the same again.

Dream on son.

Wind didn't change yesterday, may have moderated a little if any.
"Pitch didn't suit us" - oh come on, this is the mighty KK, not an upcoming county trying to make a mark in the game.

Topcat32

MfMan wrote: »

Dream on son.

Wind didn't change yesterday, may have moderated a little if any.
"Pitch didn't suit us" - oh come on, this is the mighty KK, not an upcoming county trying to make a mark in the game.

Wind didn't change but may have moderated? Classic contradiction in terms there.

Helps to read over your post when attempting to be smart arse.

MfMan

Wind didn't change direction, as some would appear to suggest. KK still had the benefit of it in the second half.

MfMan

Wind didn't change direction, as some would appear to suggest. I doubt if it even died any...

Topcat32

MfMan wrote: »

Wind didn't change direction, as some would appear to suggest. I doubt if it even died any...

Nobody suggested it changed direction, they expressed an opinion that it calmed down, which is pretty typical for a 4 pm match in Salthill at this time of year, don't think the wind had much of a bearing on the result either way anyway.

brookville

MfMan wrote: »

Wind didn't change direction, as some would appear to suggest. I doubt if it even died any...

It did seem to die a bit skehill was landing them on our full back line but murphy couldnt get that distance in the 2nd but we certainly cant be using that as any kind of an excuse.Its a credit to the lads that they had it so close with 10 mins left despite playing 2nd fiddle and living of scraps we have alot to work on over the next few weeks

SteJer

Yesterday went pretty much along the lines I was expecting. If anything I thought it might even be worse. Galway really only pulled away in the last 15 minutes. Up to that we had every chance of winning. Galway showed their experience in the closing stages. They are in year 4 of their current system/style of play with practically the same panel of players. We are in our first year of a complete change in our style of play and with a lot of rookies.

The fact the game was in Salthill was always going to make it an even harder task. Overall it was a great learning experience for our younger players and I'm sure it will benefit them for the remainder of this year.

I would make some positional & personnel changes for the Wexford game. On their day Paul Murphy, Cillian Buckley and Padraig Walsh are up there with the best corner & wing backs in the country. None of them are currently playing in their best positions, which in my opinion weakens the team considerably.

The defence wasn't the biggest problem yesterday but I think moving these 3 players to their best positions will improve the overall balance and performance of the team. Mainly because Padraig Walsh & Cillian Buckley will push forward at every opportunity and either try take a score or give a good pass. This is something that neither Conor Delaney or Paul Murphy do at wing back. If at corner back Paul Murphy would provide great cover across the full back line, something which Joey Holden & Enda Morrissey don't really do.

Therefore my back 7 would be:

Eoin Murphy
Paul Murphy
Conor Delaney
Paddy Deegan
Padraig Walsh
Jason Cleere
Cillian Buckley

With Richie Leahy not playing up to his standards at the moment I would leave the midfield pairing as:

James Maher
Conor Fogarty

However, I feel that they are very similar the way they play and we would be a much better team with an in form Richie Leahy driving forward at every opportunity whilst James Maher or Conor Fogarty helps out the defence.

The forwards are the biggest concern. Forgetting about positions for now the following should start against Wexford:

TJ Reid
Walter Walsh
Luke Scanlon

After that we have a number of experienced players currently playing well below their best for one reason or another, these are:

Colin Fennelly
Ger Alyward
Liam Blanchfield

Then we have a number of newer players who are so far struggling to get up to speed with championship hurling, these are:

Martin Keoghan
John Donnelly
Bill Sheehan

If Richie Hogan is fit he will start. He would be a very welcome addition and he might take some of the oppositions attention away from TJ Reid.

I'd like to see TJ Reid play less at centre forward and Walter Walsh play less at full forward. Colin Fennelly is a very good full forward on his day. It's hard to know if he'll be fit enough for the Wexford game but I'll assume he will be.

Therefore the six forwards and positions I'd go for are:

Walter Walsh
Richie Hogan
TJ Reid
Luke Scanlon
Colin Fennelly
Liam Blanchfield

I think we should be able to beat Wexford. Whether that takes us to a Leinster Final or qualifier only time will tell. Either way anything after that is continued bonus territory after our league title.

Amprodude

greenspurs wrote: »

I would say they were at 83% ..... :rolleyes:

Why does their percentage of requirement matter so much to you? .

Because it tells me who had more of the possession in the game. Basically who dominated more throughout the game.

Also I said Kilkenny won't win All Ireland playing like yesterday but still have time to change their setup.

citykat

MfMan wrote: »

citykat wrote: »

Jesus lads need to get a grip. Yesterdays game is practically meaningless in the grand scheme of things. It was always going to be difficult against Galway in Galway. The next and final game is far more important and the outcome of that far more significant. No harm in being brought back down to earth. Somebody mentioned 2012 and how useful the humbling in the leinster final eventually turned out to be. Galway are probably the best team in the country at the moment. Would I fear them? Not a bit. The panel hasn't changed that much over the last few years. They've folded often enough to us in the recent past to suggest to me that in a crunch against us they'll to do the same again.

Dream on son.

Wind didn't change yesterday, may have moderated a little if any.
"Pitch didn't suit us" - oh come on, this is the mighty KK, not an upcoming county trying to make a mark in the game.

Wtf are you on about?

Twiceasnice97

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

And these young Cork/Clare/Limerick forwards have won how many senior or minor All-Irelands this century between them?

In the recent National League in Division 1A.
Kilkenny scored 4-106 (118)
Clare scored 5-95 (110)
Cork Scored 4-93 (105)
Of course Limerick in 1B did score 8-114 (138), thanks to 1-25 against Laois and 3-21 against Antrim, teams that are not competing in the Provincial championship.

I'm sorry I've forgotten what your point is.....

kilkenny played 8 matchs
clare and cork both played 6 matchs

try it with scoring averages

then take out placed balls and put the scores up from play and see how it looks

BORO BILL

My biggest worry after sunday was the performance of the more established players. Buckley, murphy reid fogarty and fennelly were all poor and off the pace. The younger lads will have good and bad days but you need your main men to stand up and none did on sunday. Tiredness definitely an issue as wally and maher were some of our best and neither played the week before and scanlon had only his second start and looked fresh

Hawkeye6

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

kilkenny played 8 matchs
clare and cork both played 6 matchs

try it with scoring averages

then take out placed balls and put the scores up from play and see how it looks

I only included the 5 round robin games, so if you have a calculator handy you can divide by 5 for each average

If you want the knockout matches included, we would need to add another 3-74 (83) to Kilkenny’s tally.

Why do you want to exclude placed balls?Do they not count where you come from? Part of the game I understand involves frees/lineballs/65s/penalties. They are included in the final score. Most are awarded when individual players are fouled. Winning frees is a type of game play. Frees are won, frees are given away. Good place ball takers are an important aspect of any team in Kilkenny and I did think in every other county too.

But if you really were to take out the scored place balls from the 5 round robin matches (points wise) i.e. Total Scored – Placed Balls;

Kilkenny 118 – 46 = 72
Cork 105 – 44 = 61
Clare 110 – 41 = 69
Limerick 138 – 43 = 95

You will notice there are marginal differences in the number of points got from placed balls over five games. Maybe Kilkenny have better free takers.Maybe other counties don’t bother with place ball taking, although the stats say different. For example Peter Duggan scored 17 points from placed balls in the quarter final.Next thing lads will want the stats of scores scored from the players strong side omitted.

C__MC

savannahkat wrote: »

That is easy to answer. They are playing amongst each other so it would be harder to look bad than look good such is the quality of defending in Munster.

So your saying Leinster defending is better? Apart from Galway, I not sure. My question was that- the movement and pace of say Clare and cork forwards unit is streets ahead of Kilkenny if we take Sunday as an example. Kilkennys unit look static and weak. I’m
Just Curious as to why this is the case? Against Offaly, Kilkenny made hard work of them. That was a game where Kilkenny forward unit should of been tearing up Offalys defense. The athletism
and strength along with skill aspects say from cork Clare etc is well ahead of Kilkenny on current viewing

Village87

BORO BILL wrote: »

My biggest worry after sunday was the performance of the more established players. Buckley, murphy reid fogarty and fennelly were all poor and off the pace. The younger lads will have good and bad days but you need your main men to stand up and none did on sunday. Tiredness definitely an issue as wally and maher were some of our best and neither played the week before and scanlon had only his second start and looked fresh

I got slated last year for bringing that up last year. I do really like Padraig Walsh, TJ & Walter Walsh. Buckley having a very poor championship, Fogarty non existant last 2/3 years. Paul Murphy very limited hurling. Need these players to lead by eaxample not ask the younger players too

brookville

BORO BILL wrote: »

My biggest worry after sunday was the performance of the more established players. Buckley, murphy reid fogarty and fennelly were all poor and off the pace. The younger lads will have good and bad days but you need your main men to stand up and none did on sunday. Tiredness definitely an issue as wally and maher were some of our best and neither played the week before and scanlon had only his second start and looked fresh

Theres no doubt theres a hangover from the league final but i dont see cody changing buckley or walsh from the spine of our team and i think our fowards have struggled more against dublin and galway in particular our half foward line which was cleaned out.Id expect changes in that line the next day.
Our best performance this year was possibly against wexford after we had a week off while wexford were flat out against Galway and it could be the same this weekend so i wouldnt be losing all hope yet playing 3 championship matches in a row obviously takes it toll on amature players.This weekend off should help recovery and we should definitely be fresher taking on wexford at home.

Grats

SteJer wrote: »

Yesterday went pretty much along the lines I was expecting. If anything I thought it might even be worse. Galway really only pulled away in the last 15 minutes. Up to that we had every chance of winning. Galway showed their experience in the closing stages. They are in year 4 of their current system/style of play with practically the same panel of players. We are in our first year of a complete change in our style of play and with a lot of rookies.

The fact the game was in Salthill was always going to make it an even harder task. Overall it was a great learning experience for our younger players and I'm sure it will benefit them for the remainder of this year.

I would make some positional & personnel changes for the Wexford game. On their day Paul Murphy, Cillian Buckley and Padraig Walsh are up there with the best corner & wing backs in the country. None of them are currently playing in their best positions, which in my opinion weakens the team considerably.

The defence wasn't the biggest problem yesterday but I think moving these 3 players to their best positions will improve the overall balance and performance of the team. Mainly because Padraig Walsh & Cillian Buckley will push forward at every opportunity and either try take a score or give a good pass. This is something that neither Conor Delaney or Paul Murphy do at wing back. If at corner back Paul Murphy would provide great cover across the full back line, something which Joey Holden & Enda Morrissey don't really do.

Therefore my back 7 would be:

Eoin Murphy
Paul Murphy
Conor Delaney
Paddy Deegan
Padraig Walsh
Jason Cleere
Cillian Buckley

With Richie Leahy not playing up to his standards at the moment I would leave the midfield pairing as:

James Maher
Conor Fogarty

However, I feel that they are very similar the way they play and we would be a much better team with an in form Richie Leahy driving forward at every opportunity whilst James Maher or Conor Fogarty helps out the defence.

The forwards are the biggest concern. Forgetting about positions for now the following should start against Wexford:

TJ Reid
Walter Walsh
Luke Scanlon

After that we have a number of experienced players currently playing well below their best for one reason or another, these are:

Colin Fennelly
Ger Alyward
Liam Blanchfield

Then we have a number of newer players who are so far struggling to get up to speed with championship hurling, these are:

Martin Keoghan
John Donnelly
Bill Sheehan

If Richie Hogan is fit he will start. He would be a very welcome addition and he might take some of the oppositions attention away from TJ Reid.

I'd like to see TJ Reid play less at centre forward and Walter Walsh play less at full forward. Colin Fennelly is a very good full forward on his day. It's hard to know if he'll be fit enough for the Wexford game but I'll assume he will be.

Therefore the six forwards and positions I'd go for are:

Walter Walsh
Richie Hogan
TJ Reid
Luke Scanlon
Colin Fennelly
Liam Blanchfield

I think we should be able to beat Wexford. Whether that takes us to a Leinster Final or qualifier only time will tell. Either way anything after that is continued bonus territory after our league title.

Fair play, lots of thought put into that post and plenty to digest. No doubt your post will be revisited and referred to in the next 10 days or so ahead of that crucial match against Wexford. A very positive post too I might add.

For now, I'm not so sure about Delaney at full back at this stage. I feel he may be too inexperienced this year. I wonder about Deegan at full back and Delaney in the corner. I'd love to think Cleere would be in the frame at this stage but he hadn't had any game time.

There is no argument though but that Paul Murphy, Padraig Walsh and Buckley have to be moved to their strongest positions and slot in around them.

If only Richie Leahy could find his true form it would give us more options in midfield and forwards. I wouldn't rule out Sheehan at all. He works his socks off and linked up well with Walter on occasions when others were missing.

Anyway, we'll return to this again.