Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Hitchens

Barret's play acting yesterday will follow him in the years to come like a bad smell. If a KK player did something like that I'd disown him.


the match outcome was decided right there, a full half of 14 men against 15 (or some might say 16)

kilkennyboy

https://twitter.com/NedzerB13/status/1163573406085918721?s=19

funnyname

kilkennyboy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/NedzerB13/status/1163573406085918721?s=19

Jaysus Eddie that's from 2008, the rules have been amended since then.

Lefty Bicek

funnyname wrote: »

Jaysus Eddie that's from 2008, the rules have been amended since then.

What's the rule amendment you're referring to, relevant to the video clip ?

Stacksofwacks

funnyname wrote: »

Jaysus Eddie that's from 2008, the rules have been amended since then.

He was unlucky to get a yellow in fairness

SteJer

More inconsistency from referees. Barrett should have been sent off for his head high challenge on Hogan. Tipp down to 14 and KK with 15 the outcome would have been different. James Owens won this All Ireland for Tipp by not applying the same rules to one player as he did to another.

mercury16

SteJer wrote: »

More inconsistency from referees. Barrett should have been sent off for his head high challenge on Hogan. Tipp down to 14 and KK with 15 the outcome would have been different. James Owens won this All Ireland for Tipp by not applying the same rules to one player as he did to another.

A couple of things to put this to bed;
- Barret tackle on Hogan was a yellow card at least. Swings the hurl hits hogan on the head. Barret gets nothing, Hogan is like a demon over it!
- Hogan does hit Barret in the head, the tackle is not mistimed. Barret steps back as Hogan is about to connect. You say that’s Hogan’s responsibility to make sure he connects properly, irrespective of where Barret is. Well then it’s also Barrett responsibility to make sure his hurl doesn’t hit Hogan’s head.
- Barret is definitely not hit that hard, watch the way he jumps into the air. I’m not Einstein, but I did do physics in school, watch the way he jumps and lifts his head. If he got clipped that hard he’d have gone towards the line or spun around. Barret is then okay acting on the ground.
- Hogan gets a far worse hit in the quarter final by Cooper of Cork, watch the way you spin if your hit like that. Now look again at Barrets trajectory when he’s hit, dives like a Swan..omg ! Doesn’t add up for me. Note how Richie doesn’t try to get Cooper sent off. Not the same from Barrett. No shock there!
- now note, which was the ref for the kk vs Cork game, and who was the ref for the final? If Owens sees it done far worse to Hogan it’s only a yellow, but if Hogan does it to a lesser extent it’s a red.
- final point, Owens is consulting the tv official in the final when supposedly waiting for Barret to get up. Note how he stops, he even stops talking and is listening. Dickie Murphy's is talking back in his ear piece, after playing it back, from upstairs. Watch Owens body language and demeanor. He’s waiting for feedback. Cos he definitely didn’t see it that clearly to make such a call and neither did the linesman. He’s not allowed to consult Dickie, and as he did, why didn’t he do it other times when it would have benefited kk?

have2flushtwice

SteJer wrote: »

More inconsistency from referees. Barrett should have been sent off for his head high challenge on Hogan. Tipp down to 14 and KK with 15 the outcome would have been different. James Owens won this All Ireland for Tipp by not applying the same rules to one player as he did to another.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

And If hawkeye wasn't there the high catch of Hogan wouldn't be a point, and so on... Every man went in for a tackle giving his all, including the incident on this thread. For shefflin to deny what was on the playback was foolish.
Whether the ref consulted upstairs or not, the playback showed it all. If he didn't red him there would be backlash also. Wouldn't have changed the outcome tipp were in control at that stage.

Lefty Bicek

I think the sending off influenced the game, I don't think it influenced the final result.

Saying that James Owens 'won it for Tipp' or that it was 'fourteen against sixteen' is all hyperbole, and honestly, leaving us open to ridicule.

Field east

mercury16 wrote: »

A couple of things to put this to bed;
- Barret tackle on Hogan was a yellow card at least. Swings the hurl hits hogan on the head. Barret gets nothing, Hogan is like a demon over it!
- Hogan does hit Barret in the head, the tackle is not mistimed. Barret steps back as Hogan is about to connect. You say that’s Hogan’s responsibility to make sure he connects properly, irrespective of where Barret is. Well then it’s also Barrett responsibility to make sure his hurl doesn’t hit Hogan’s head.
- Barret is definitely not hit that hard, watch the way he jumps into the air. I’m not Einstein, but I did do physics in school, watch the way he jumps and lifts his head. If he got clipped that hard he’d have gone towards the line or spun around. Barret is then okay acting on the ground.
- Hogan gets a far worse hit in the quarter final by Cooper of Cork, watch the way you spin if your hit like that. Now look again at Barrets trajectory when he’s hit, dives like a Swan..omg ! Doesn’t add up for me. Note how Richie doesn’t try to get Cooper sent off. Not the same from Barrett. No shock there!
- now note, which was the ref for the kk vs Cork game, and who was the ref for the final? If Owens sees it done far worse to Hogan it’s only a yellow, but if Hogan does it to a lesser extent it’s a red.
- final point, Owens is consulting the tv official in the final when supposedly waiting for Barret to get up. Note how he stops, he even stops talking and is listening. Dickie Murphy's is talking back in his ear piece, after playing it back, from upstairs. Watch Owens body language and demeanor. He’s waiting for feedback. Cos he definitely didn’t see it that clearly to make such a call and neither did the linesman. He’s not allowed to consult Dickie, and as he did, why didn’t he do it other times when it would have benefited kk?

When Hogan hit Barrett , Barrett’s head jerked suddenly - in the same way as you see it in a boxing match when a boxer gets a direct blow to the head. You see sweat being splattered and a facial contortion. I seriously don’t think that Barrett faked the ‘head jerk’
Secondly, the ref would be in a right quandary if he gave Hogan a yellow and shortly after that a Tipp player did something similar. He would be under severe pressure to give a yellow even though a red would be the right decision

I don’t think that the the ref saw the incident and that it was the linesman that brought it to his attention. The ref then, and rightly so imo, ‘ consulted widely’ before coming to a decision. That’s why the ref seemed to be in doubt as to what happened and why he did not go to Hogan immediately after having talked to the linesman

SteJer

A head high tackle is a head high tackle. Barrett struck Hogan in the head with his hurl and received no card. Hogan struck Barrett in the head and received a red card. This All Ireland will forever be tainted by these decisions from Owens and Tipp people will know deep down that they didn’t beat KK in a fair battle.

Marty Xavier

Tipp had turned the tables was it 1-2 unanswered before the red card? Awful whingeing from some here , especially considering the way Kilkenny have played the game in the past, about time they were called on it

thesultan

P

Last Stop wrote: »

Motivator wrote: »

This is one embarrassing view of events. Barrett went to win the ball and mistimed it, what was he meant to do just leave Hogan run away from him? If there were reds dished out for that then games would be abandoned left right and center as half the players would get the line. For a team and county that championed themselves on playing hard hurling for years, the crying and moaning that has gone on over the last 24 hours is pathetic.

For those saying Hogan isn’t “one of those players”, take a look at the below. A cowardly hit by a player who has been at that kind of carry on for years. Yesterday was once too often and it smacked of frustration for a player clearly far beyond his best.

https://youtu.be/nieYEpQgIqg

Your first statement is so ironic given what follows.
Barrett was meant to not hit another player across the head. If you apply your logic, Hogan went for a shoulder and mistimed it. What was he meant to do just let Barrett run away from him? Looks pretty similar doesn’t it.
We pride ourselves on playing honest hurling and still do. For years people talked ****e about Cody not giving a free in training as if we were sort of wild animals. The reality is we like to play hurling and that’s it. We don’t like to dive and fall around the place.

A single other mistimed tackle doesn’t make him a dirty player. 2 incidents from a player who has been playing with Kilkenny since 2008? I reckon he’s played around 80 times for Kilkenny in the period so 2 bad tackles in that time isn’t bad. I could easily give examples of Tipp players who have made far mor cowardly tackles over the years but we won’t go there...

Correct me on this was he sent off against Limerick in a quarter final in Thurles?

Field east

dubcat51 wrote: »

How can you say we were beaten by the better team when we had 14 v 15.game was just coming to the boil when richie went.In fact for most of the first half we were the better team.Its one if thise things in sport we will never no what the outcome would have been 15 v 15.

Kil did most of the hurling in the first half. Tipp did little or no hurling. It was vintage Kil. Full of energy, always in front, good positioning of players, full of running, etc,etc and having 15 players for 30 minutes of it. So how come that Tipp were leading by a point at half time and Kil had scored only 3 points from play?. Was there something in the performance of the Kil team in the first half- given all of the above that told Tipp something - with Hogan or no Hogan?
Did Tipp say at half time ‘ with all of their intensity and the running around with the full 15 players and we are ahead by a point , we need to step up a gear and do a bit of hurling to win by a few points’ a

Hitchens

Marty Xavier wrote: »

Tipp had turned the tables was it 1-2 unanswered before the red card? Awful whingeing from some here , especially considering the way Kilkenny have played the game in the past, about time they were called on it

KK 1 point behind at half time, we were often a lot more behind at halftime and won.

But of course that would be 15 Vs 15 for the whole match, not a man short for half of it

SteJer

Does anyone else think we saw the unofficial introduction of a video ref on Sunday? Owens & Murphy took a long time to decide whether Hogan’s tackle was a red card or not. Murphy could not have been 100% certain that Hogan connected with Barrett from his angle. It was obvious Owens had no idea why Murphy had signaled him. Discussing the incident with Murphy, going over to look at Barrett and then discussing further with Murphy would not make either any more certain what had actually happened. I suspect an official somewhere was reviewing the incident on TV and they were waiting for him to make a call on it. It’s a pity they weren’t all so vigilant regarding the head high tackle from Barrett on Hogan.

Ceist_Beag

Hopefully everyone can end the whinging now and move on. Some of the posts on here have been embarrassing, it's up there with the Thierry Henry handball reaction!
Back to club action now, hopefully we get a good championship to keep the momentum going.

Field east

blackcard wrote: »

No complaints about red. However, contrast Tommy Walsh getting straight up after a pull across his head with Barrett trying to get a man sent off

One of the things noted in Kil playing style is that when any player gets a wallop- whether it draws a fee or not- they normally do not go down. That must be part of Cody’s philosophy - to achieve a better result for the team.

Think about it. Going down might help in the drawing a free but it dilutes the focus as to what each player is about. It interferes with the intensity philosophy. ‘Going down’ is against the ‘ honest hurlers ‘ philosophy. Kil , for years, hurled hard, drove with conviction all the time, great teamwork and interplay between players all the time, played on the edge with the rules - and at times were ‘not behind the door’
in taking issue with refs / other officials , both on and off the field. And all of the above in the context of a high level of fitness and a never say die attitude. How many times were Kil behind by a few points with , say, 5 min to go , drove to get the needed goal/s and a point or to to win by a point or two. It had that reputation and it delivered on it most times. The RTÉ match commentators on Sunday last were even saying half ways and even later in the second half were still referrring to Kil will hurl to the end/ not dead yet - but it never happened for them this time.
My core suggestion is that by not ‘going down’ worked in Kil favor and the management promised that attitude as it promoted the hard man /tough player aurora.

Field east

Comerman wrote: »

Please lads don't bite for these new posters, they're only here to snipe. Hogan's red was fair enough but Tipp should of had a red for Barretts slap on Hogan and a couple of yellow for clinical fouling around the goal BUT at the end of the day they were better finishers and took some great scores. Best of luck to them. We got to an all Ireland when at the beginning of the season we expected feck all.

Is there any TV piece on the barrett incident on Hogan? Everyone refers to it but we don’t know what exactly happened. Was it a loose Hurley that caught Hogan , was it done with intent,or what

Tombo2001

Field east wrote: »

Is there any TV piece on the barrett incident on Hogan? Everyone refers to it but we don’t know what exactly happened. Was it a loose Hurley that caught Hogan , was it done with intent,or what

Its pretty clear from the photos, and from the blood, that he caught him on the face with the hurl.

Thats why I thought this was a bit much coming from Barrett, and I think it leaves a sour taste.

You can argue that Hogan deserved the Red; but you cant argue that Hogan deserved a red, and Barrett didnt deserve one earlier. There is just no way.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/its-a-headhigh-tackle-so-it-must-be-a-red-cathal-barrett-weighs-in-on-controversial-richie-hogan-red-card-38415254.html

If anything, the whole thing has done Tipp a disservice as for me - despite the winning margin - there will be an asterisk over this final. I am not convinced Tipp would have gone on to win this.

bruschi

I often find this thread amusing in so much that there are such polarising views from supporters of the same county. I actually think some of the best posters are on here. Whilst I also think some of the worst posters are also on here. Seems to be no middle ground!

But some of ye are embarrassing yourselves and your other followers. And what's worse, but some of the former Kilkenny players are completely embarrassing in what they are throwing out on social media. Barretts tackle wasnt a red card offence. It was a borderline yellow, which to be honest, I felt it should have been given as a yellow. Richies was an open and shut red card. All this bluster about he didnt see it, video ref and Dickie Murphy telling him it was a red. Christ lads, give it a rest.

I didnt expect Kilkenny to make either final, so great credit is due to them both for that. I didnt expect either to win, but I also didnt expect either to be well beaten. Still, it has been a decent year for Kilkenny despite the naysayers and forecasters of doom.

SteJer

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Its pretty clear from the photos, and from the blood, that he caught him on the face with the hurl.

Thats why I thought this was a bit much coming from Barrett, and I think it leaves a sour taste.

You can argue that Hogan deserved the Red; but you cant argue that Hogan deserved a red, and Barrett didnt deserve one earlier. There is just no way.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/its-a-headhigh-tackle-so-it-must-be-a-red-cathal-barrett-weighs-in-on-controversial-richie-hogan-red-card-38415254.html

If anything, the whole thing has done Tipp a disservice as for me - despite the winning margin - there will be an asterisk over this final. I am not convinced Tipp would have gone on to win this.

Spot on!!

Tombo2001

bruschi wrote: »

I often find this thread amusing in so much that there are such polarising views from supporters of the same county. I actually think some of the best posters are on here. Whilst I also think some of the worst posters are also on here. Seems to be no middle ground!

But some of ye are embarrassing yourselves and your other followers. And what's worse, but some of the former Kilkenny players are completely embarrassing in what they are throwing out on social media. Barretts tackle wasnt a red card offence. It was a borderline yellow, which to be honest, I felt it should have been given as a yellow. Richies was an open and shut red card. All this bluster about he didnt see it, video ref and Dickie Murphy telling him it was a red. Christ lads, give it a rest.

I didnt expect Kilkenny to make either final, so great credit is due to them both for that. I didnt expect either to win, but I also didnt expect either to be well beaten. Still, it has been a decent year for Kilkenny despite the naysayers and forecasters of doom.

Barrett hit Hogan in the face with a hurl.

Where in the rules does it say anywhere that this is anything but a red?

The only reason I bring this up is because of this - well he hit him on the head, the referee had no choice - line that's coming out.

Whats different about Barrett doing it? What - it wasn't intentional? its the cut and thrust of a manly game? What line will you have to say this wasn't a red?

JJs Left Hand

Lads there's no asterisk beside this All Ireland for Tipp. I can only hope that you're all on a wind up when you say this stuff because there can't be people who actually think like this - there just can't be.

JohnCougar

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

What price was the programme

It was €7.00, up from €5

total increase was €12 with tickets going up €10 also

SteJer

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Its pretty clear from the photos, and from the blood, that he caught him on the face with the hurl.

Thats why I thought this was a bit much coming from Barrett, and I think it leaves a sour taste.

You can argue that Hogan deserved the Red; but you cant argue that Hogan deserved a red, and Barrett didnt deserve one earlier. There is just no way.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/its-a-headhigh-tackle-so-it-must-be-a-red-cathal-barrett-weighs-in-on-controversial-richie-hogan-red-card-38415254.html

If anything, the whole thing has done Tipp a disservice as for me - despite the winning margin - there will be an asterisk over this final. I am not convinced Tipp would have gone on to win this.

That photo clearly shows the linesman could not have known for sure if Hogan connected with Barrett or not as Hogan himself would have unsighted him. I’m convinced an official watched the incident on TV and made the decision. Also, Barrett crouching down made it easier for Hogan to connect with his head.

Tombo2001

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Lads there's no asterisk beside this All Ireland for Tipp. I can only hope that you're all on a wind up when you say this stuff because there can't be people who actually think like this - there just can't be.

Of course it looks stupid to say when the winning margin was so high.

If it had been a 4 point game with ten minutes to go instead of an 8 point game with ten minutes to go (which it was) then we could have had a different finale.

I do think - if they had finished the game with 15 players - that Kilkenny could have won the game. Would have favoured Tipp for sure, but still KK could have won that game on a different day.

bruschi

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Barrett hit Hogan in the face with a hurl.

Where in the rules does it say anywhere that this is anything but a red?

The only reason I bring this up is because of this - well he hit him on the head, the referee had no choice - line that's coming out.

Whats different about Barrett doing it?

It's very clear.

Deliberate or Accidental Fouls:
In the following components of this Rule on Aggressive
Fouls, there are references made to specific infractions
being penalised by Caution or Ordering Off – signalled
by Cards of a stated colour. A Card shall be issued only
where the Infraction is deemed by the Referee to have
been deliberate and not accidental

Plus the appropriate rule would be the following:

5.6 To use the hurley in a careless manner
PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS –
(i) Caution offender; order off for second
cautionable foul.
(ii) Free puck from where foul occurred
except as provided under Exceptions of
Rule 2.2.

some are trying to portray this as a "strike" under rule 5.17 which has a red card offence to it. It wasnt. It was an attempted flick of the ball that missed. Therefore in my opinion it was not a deliberate attempt to hit a player, but it was a careless use of the hurl. Multiple players get hit playing hurling. It doesnt automatically mean that because you get hit or suffer a head injury that it is a red card. The ball was there, he tried play it and missed. IMO it should have been a yellow for careless use, however you could strongly argue there was no intent and therefore no need to issue a card.

Richie Hogan made no attempt whatsoever to either play the ball or the man by legal tackling means. By throwing up the elbow in the manner he did, whilst also connecting with the players head, automatically means that is a red.

SteJer

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Lads there's no asterisk beside this All Ireland for Tipp. I can only hope that you're all on a wind up when you say this stuff because there can't be people who actually think like this - there just can't be.

Of course there is. Barrett struck Hogan on the head with his hurl and didn’t receive a red card. Hogan struck Barrett on the head with his elbow and received a red card. Tipp have James Owens to thank for winning this All-Ireland and I think they already know that.

Village87

The whole Richie Hogan thing is completely overshadowing Kilkennys inept performance on the field and on the sideline.
Kilkenny had 5/6 lads in there 30s another 5/6 lads between 27/29 and badly need new players to step up. I highlighted the lack of class on the Kilkenny team,we rely on teams having off days and dogging other teams and over relying on TJ to get wins.
I can see things getting a lot worse before they improve. There must 10/11 lads between Dicksboro and and Bennetsbridge on the panel and Buckley is the only one getting a game and he is in big bother as his mobility is leaving him down. The panel is very poor and TJ is 33 next year. I am not very optimistic for the future.

Also our style of hurling is terrible