Does Israel want to wipe out the Palestinians?

Subcomandante Marcos

NKante wrote: »

Quite extraordinary that when faced with a video of a senior Hamas figure explicitly saying 50 Hamas dead was an "official figure" - you still call it Hasbara.
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During Israel's last bout of attempted genocide in Gaza a few years back they sent troops into the strip, the troops were met with resistance from Just about every combat aged male in the region. Anyone who took up arms at that time to protect their families from IDF war criminals would be considered a member of or former member of Hamas. That would include almost every adult male from 20-60.


The reason they claim them as combatants is so their families will be paid a pension in honour of their service.

NKante

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

During Israel's last bout of attempted genocide in Gaza a few years back they sent troops into the strip, the troops were met with resistance from Just about every combat aged male in the region. Anyone who took up arms at that time to protect their families from IDF war criminals would be considered a member of or former member of Hamas. That would include almost every adult male from 20-60.


The reason they claim them as combatants is so their families will be paid a pension in honour of their service.

Interesting that you aren't able to debate without hyperbole such as 'genocide'. I've never seen a genocide with the population increasing so rapidly. I've never seen a genocide where the like expectancy under the 'genociders' increased by 30 years.

There are 1.8m Gazans, the majority of the population are young. Your assertion that most males of fighting age took up arms is ludicrous.

It's come to something when you seem to be more palestinian than palestinians. Here they are openly admitting their group lost 50 members, yet in comes an Irishman to be more hard line than Hamas and go into Palestinian Hasbara like I've never seen. Claiming every young male is Hamas so it somehow cancels Hamas membership out and means they're all civilians.

The absolute state of you.

arybvtcw0eolkf

NKante wrote: »

We know that the palestinians have used UN schools for rocket storage and we also know they've fired from 
the playground of UN schools, hoping that Israel returns fire to the origin of the attack.

All you've done is show instances in which Israel has made military mistakes. I can do that too with the UK, France, US, Russia etc.

You said that Israel troops deliberately aim at children and callously murder them. You haven't backed up that assertion because you can't.

Just to add to my experiences with the IDF, and Lebanon (but you can draw comparisons with the resistance in Gaza).

I've seen the Hezbollah and Amal use schools, and even UN positions to shelter behind to attack Israeli and South Lebanese Army positions and personnel.

Mostly a UN position couldn't openly report (ie via radio) on where the attacks were coming from because you'd risk drawing fire from the IDF/SLA on the position.

Qana was the very worst example of this, Hezbollah were firing Kaytusha rockets from behind sheltering civilians. The IDF had drones up, had warned the UN that they were going to fire on the position. UNIFIL had a weak mandate and couldn't stop the attacks. The IDF attacked and killed 102 innocent civilians.

What I've never witnessed is the IDF shooting unarmed civilians just for the craic or because a target presented itself like some posters here would have you believe.

The IDF evacuate injured civilians from Syria and treat them in Israeli hospitals, but then Israel isn't laying siege to Syria. The IDF have also put field hospitals on the ground in the likes of Haiti (earth quake) and various parts of Africa.

They've also treated Irish soldiers wounded in Lebanon in Israeli hospitals (on the flip side of that they've also injured and killed a few of us too).

All that said I'm not convinced that the IDF couldn't do more to prevent civilian deaths in Gaza, and I think Hamas could do a lot more to protect their civilians too.

I've no doubt that Hamas militants are operating among civilian protesters at the Gazan security fence.

Its a shame that the whole place is such a clusterfvck because Israel is a lovely place to visit, absolutely nothing like I'd imagined before I visited. I loved it there, was supposed to go back for a Judo competition last month but for health reasons I couldn't travel.

Beautiful women, food and weather (crap beer) sure why wouldn't I love to go back

NKante

Otto Embarrassed Falconer wrote: »

Just to add to my experiences with the IDF, and Lebanon (but you can draw comparisons with the resistance in Gaza).

I've seen the Hezbollah and Amal use schools, and even UN positions to shelter behind to attack Israeli and South Lebanese Army positions and personnel.

Mostly a UN position couldn't openly report (ie via radio) on where the attacks were coming from because you'd risk drawing fire from the IDF/SLA on the position.

Qana was the very worst example of this, Hezbollah were firing Kaytusha rockets from behind sheltering civilians. The IDF had drones up, had warned the UN that they were going to fire on the position. UNIFIL had a weak mandate and couldn't stop the attacks. The IDF attacked and killed 102 innocent civilians.

What I've never witnessed is the IDF shooting unarmed civilians just for the craic or because a target presented itself like some posters here would have you believe.

The IDF evacuate injured civilians from Syria and treat them in Israeli hospitals, but then Israel isn't laying siege to Syria. The IDF have also put field hospitals on the ground in the likes of Haiti (earth quake) and various parts of Africa.

They've also treated Irish soldiers wounded in Lebanon in Israeli hospitals (on the flip side of that they've also injured and killed a few of us too).

All that said I'm not convinced that the IDF couldn't do more to prevent civilian deaths in Gaza, and I think Hamas could do a lot more to protect their civilians too.

I've no doubt that Hamas militants are operating among civilian protesters at the Gazan security fence.

Its a shame that the whole place is such a clusterfvck because Israel is a lovely place to visit, absolutely nothing like I'd imagined before I visited. I loved it there, was supposed to go back for a Judo competition last month but for health reasons I couldn't travel.

Beautiful women, food and weather (crap beer) sure why wouldn't I love to go back

Good post and just to add to the bold part - it's become pretty clear that Hamas use their people as human shields. In fact they openly admit it and there's some video evidence of them stating it.

I mean they have a bunker under Shifa hospital for the Hamas hierarchy and a tunnel system for Hamas terrorists. Yet they don't have a single shelter for the people. In fact they forced people onto rooftops to protect certain buildings.

Israel on the other hand made it law that every home must have access to a bomb shelter or reinforced safe room and bus stops neighbouring Gaza also double up as bomb shelters.

arybvtcw0eolkf

NKante wrote: »

I mean they have a bunker under Shifa hospital for the Hamas hierarchy and a tunnel system for Hamas terrorists. Yet they don't have a single shelter for the people. In fact they forced people onto rooftops to protect certain buildings.

Israel on the other hand made it law that every home must have access to a bomb shelter or reinforced safe room and bus stops neighbouring Gaza also double up as bomb shelters.

Funny you should say that because the Hezbollah done the same in south Lebanon.

We were completely ignorant to the tunnels, I think the IDF were too until the 2006 war.

But there wasn't a single shelter for civilians, not one. We used to let civilians shelter with us in our bunkers. Thankfully I've never seen the Hezbollah force people onto roofs to protect the building from a shelling.

Another thing I'd point out is after Qana almost every time Israel was going to attack a target in Lebanon they'd let the UN know in time to evacuate civilians. This couldn't always happen of course, ie if armed elements attacked a compound or convoy retaliation was pretty swift.

Nothing to do with Gaza, just small talk here. But the very worst in Lebanon were the Christian SLA, although a defacto force of the IDF but they were independently a shower of complete bastards.

A queer observation I made in Lebanon, most of us wondered at this.. No one died of natural causes, industrial accidents or car crashes ~ everyone was killed by the IDF lol.. It was almost comical sometimes when someone was paraded through a village after being killed by the IDF and we'd be 'but there has been no shelling all week' lol. Yep, without exception they were all killed by the IDF

Subcomandante Marcos

Otto Embarrassed Falconer wrote: »

Nothing to do with Gaza, just small talk here. But the very worst in Lebanon were the Christian SLA, although a defacto force of the IDF but they were independently a shower of complete bastards.

The SLA and other phalangist malitias were ***** but the Israelis were 100% complicit in their actions.
The IDF surrounded two refugee camps, penned in the inhabitants, illuminated the night sky with flares and allowed their proxy troops to massacre upward of 3000 men women and children.
But besides that sure they were grand.

Zebra3

NKante wrote: »

Have we all seen the video of a senior Hamas member stating that the vast majority of those killed were Hamas members?He's interviewed on Palestinian TV and claims 50 out of 62 were Hamas members.


Also the story of the 8 month old being killed by IDF tear gas has proven to be false according to the Doctor who saw the baby.

Also a video of a border infiltrator singing like a bird about Hamas's tactics. Quite cynical to use the population in this way.Can't seem to post links here. 


Just thought people should know there are two sides.

Did he say they were members of Hamas or members of the military wing of Hamas?

NKante

NKante wrote: »

Good post and just to add to the bold part - it's become pretty clear that Hamas use their people as human shields. In fact they openly admit it and there's some video evidence of them stating it.

I mean they have a bunker under Shifa hospital for the Hamas hierarchy and a tunnel system for Hamas terrorists. Yet they don't have a single shelter for the people. In fact they forced people onto rooftops to protect certain buildings.

Israel on the other hand made it law that every home must have access to a bomb shelter or reinforced safe room and bus stops neighbouring Gaza also double up as bomb shelters.

Just that they don't seem too worried about Israeli Arabs. Why's that now....?


https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israeli-arab-towns-unprotected-from-missile-attack-idf-sources-say-1.5626996


https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-2-5-million-israelis-lack-access-to-bomb-shelters-idf-official-says-1.6093706

tayto lover

Zebra3 wrote: »

Did he say they were members of Hamas or members of the military wing of Hamas?

It doesn't really matter. They were unarmed citizens who were murdered. I'd say those children scared the sh1t out of the IDF.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

The SLA and other phalangist malitias were ***** but the Israelis were 100% complicit in their actions.
The IDF surrounded two refugee camps, penned in the inhabitants, illuminated the night sky with flares and allowed their proxy troops to massacre upward of 3000 men women and children.
But besides that sure they were grand.

I know full well what happened in Sabra and Shatila, but I'm drawing on other experiences of my service in Lebanon stretching back as far as 1988.

Something you might be interested in, from todays Indo

CLICK HERE Former ice cream seller accused of murdering Irish troops is jailed on other charges

And I don't give a toss about the semantics of it, the Christians were a shower of cvnts. They didn't need encouragement or assistance from the Israeli's, the Christians were bastards.

You have no idea what the Christians or anyone else got up to, save for whatever Google searches might throw up for you.

As bad as the IDF were in Lebanon, the SLA/DFF ('Christians') were to us, and everyone else a complete shower of heartless bastards. The Israeli's dumped on them in the end, and tbh I've zero sympathies for them.

Those who weren't lucky enough to escape to Israel on the eve of the Israeli' withdrawal from Lebanon were imprisoned by the Hezbollah, & tbh 'fook them.

[rant over ~ sorry there's only a few things which will trigger me and this is one of them].

Read the article. I didn't myself, it would enrage me. The Israeli's helped the fooker to escape to the USA. Personally, I'd pull the trigger on him myself.

Another one to search if you're interested. Private Kevin Joyce 18, kidnapped by Palestinians and murdered. To date the longest held kidnap victim in the Middle East.. Ptw Joyce is from the Aran Islands, his family is waiting to bring him home still.

I've said it earlier in the thread, we've made a lot of sacrifices and paid the ultimate sacrifice for peace in Lebanon. We were targets for just about everyone there, but it was worth it because as I posted ~ there is a whole generation of Lebanese children now who have never known war.

When Irish troops rescued a Fijian unit in Lebanon their task would have been so much more difficult without the support of Israeli troops (another Google search for you).

The situation on all fronts out there is exceptionally complicated and forever shifting, Wiki and Google experts on the situ don't mean squat to me tbh.

Right, 'tis bed time and I hate going to bed with these crap on my mind so I'll cut it short here.

Haven't seen you post in the SD&MF forum for awhile, hope you're not slacking off and getting soft

Long busy day and weekend ahead, excuse me if I don't check in here too often

Zebra3

tayto lover wrote: »

It doesn't really matter. They were unarmed citizens who were murdered. I'd say those children scared the sh1t out of the IDF.

My point was that a lot of people don’t actually have a clue what Hamas actually is and what they do.

They hear a few muttering from a Zionist murderer, biased comments from western journalists and form an incorrect opinion.

RustyNut

NKante wrote: »

.

You said that Israel troops deliberately aim at children and callously murder them. You haven't backed up that assertion because you can't.

Everybody knows the idf deliberately target innocent children but don't let that stop you posting whatever propaganda suits your agenda.

Four young boys – members of the same family – playing football and hide and seek on the beach were killed today by what is believed to have been gunfire from Israeli warships carrying out a blockade of Gaza.

The attack on the fishing port in Gaza City came at just after four o’clock on a sunny and clear afternoon with good visibility. The group of cousins, aged between nine and 11, were around what looked like a derelict shed when they were hit by a shell from the direction of the sea.

Three of them managed to run to the terrace of a hotel, where their injures were treated by staff and journalists who have been staying there.

Of the four others, who had more severe wounds, one died at the scene, the other three after arriving at the hospital.


“The kids were playing football on the beach. They were all... under the age of 15,” said witness Ahmed Abu Hassera, 22.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

Good video, this is before this recent massacre, but shows its worse than you can even imagine

P.S As Israel pays an army of hasbara (propaganda trolls) make yourself aware of the tactics they use and don't engage.How to deal with Zionist trolls

cfuserkildare

Just saw this and immediately wondered, What will ever be done to stop this type of response which we are all too familiar with?


https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2018/0518/964357-un-gaza/

What will the UN do about the use of Snipers and further Lethal force against the Palestinians?

utyh2ikcq9z76b

The UN human rights chief has slammed Israel's reaction to protests along the Gaza border as "wholly disproportionate", backing calls for an international investigation.

Addressing a special session of the UN Human Rights Council on the violence which has claimed more than 100 lives in Gaza over six weeks, Zeid Ra'ad Al Hussein warned that "killing resulting from the unlawful use of force by an occupying power may also constitute wilful killings, a grave breach of the Fourth Geneva Convention".

Violations of the Geneva Conventions adopted in 1949 following World War II are commonly called "war crimes"

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BattleCorp

cfuserkildare wrote: »

What will the UN do about the use of Snipers and further Lethal force against the Palestinians?

To paraphrase Conor McGregor...... 'They'll do fcukin nuthin'*




*Cos the US will stop any investigation/sanctions.

weldoninhio

BattleCorp wrote: »

To paraphrase Conor McGregor...... 'They'll do fcukin nuthin'*




*Cos the US will stop any investigation/sanctions.

Why should any country have a veto on the investigation of war crimes??

BattleCorp

weldoninhio wrote: »

Why should any country have a veto on the investigation of war crimes??

They shouldn't. But permanent members of the UN Security Council have a veto. Them's the rules that they made up.

Mr. CooL ICE

Mod: Threads merged

CruelCoin

weldoninhio wrote: »

Why should any country have a veto on the investigation of war crimes??

Because that one country pays most of the bills.

He who pays controls.

RobbieTheRobber

CruelCoin wrote: »

Because that one country pays most of the bills.

He who pays controls.

Five countries have UN powers of Veto US, Britain, France, China, and Russia

Grayson

Zebra3 wrote: »

My point was that a lot of people don’t actually have a clue what Hamas actually is and what they do.

They hear a few muttering from a Zionist murderer, biased comments from western journalists and form an incorrect opinion.

two options

1) people know who hamas are and what they do. I'd imagine most of the posters here fall into that category. It's possible to dislike Hamas and at the same time be appalled by Israeli soldiers shooting so many people. Especially people who are in wheelchairs.

2) people don't know who hamas are and feel appalled at the fact that a double amputee in a wheelchair was shot.

See? What happened on the israeli side was wrong. They targeted civilians who weren't a danger to them.

Subcomandante Marcos

CruelCoin wrote: »

Because that one country pays most of the bills.

He who pays controls.

The US pays the most for a single country, not "most of the bills". They US pays 22% of funds because it makes up 27% of economic activity
the EU pays more in total than the US. It's based on GNP. By your logic California should be able to veto all legislation and policies in the US because they have the largest economy in the US? Or London should be able to veto all UK policies?

You're living in lala land. Turn the britebart drip off.

From one of the European Union's official websites.

The level of the contributions of the 28 EU Member States amounts to 30.38% of the UN regular budget and 33.17% of the UN peacekeeping budgets. In addition, the EU and its Member States also provide about half of all the voluntary contributions to UN funds and programmes.

Odhinn

NKante wrote: »

We know that the palestinians have used UN schools for rocket storage and we also know they've fired from 
the playground of UN schools, hoping that Israel returns fire to the origin of the attack.

All you've done is show instances in which Israel has made military mistakes. I can do that too with the UK, France, US, Russia etc.

You said that Israel troops deliberately aim at children and callously murder them. You haven't backed up that assertion because you can't.

The guy who emptied the clip into the schoolgirl? The sniper shots to the head of the other girls? You did read the articles?

wes

NKante wrote: »

Yep. Keep denying what was said in the video.

Memri are not a trust worthy source, it was founded by former Israeli intelligence (so straight away there is a bias), but the biggest thing is they have unapologetically faked translations and threatened critics. There a pro-Israel propaganda outfit and are worthless as source.

You can read more at sourcewatch:
Sourcewatch - Memri

Plenty of links etc on source watch detailing there nonsense.

NKante

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Just saw this and immediately wondered, What will ever be done to stop this type of response which we are all too familiar with?


https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2018/0518/964357-un-gaza/

What will the UN do about the use of Snipers and further Lethal force against the Palestinians?

Shooting hostile border infiltrators is allowed.

In fact is happens all over the world every day, usually with drug smugglers.

Again, I'd like some of the Hamas cheerleaders on here to try and rush the border of India/Pakistan or South/North Korea. Let us know how you got on, or perhaps get your next of kin to let us know.

NKante

wes wrote: »

Memri are not a trust worthy source, it was founded by former Israeli intelligence (so straight away there is a bias), but the biggest thing is they have unapologetically faked translations and threatened critics. There a pro-Israel propaganda outfit and are worthless as source.

You can read more at sourcewatch:
Sourcewatch - Memri

Plenty of links etc on source watch detailing there nonsense.

If you can't prove the translation is wrong, then stop your whinging. I have a base level understanding of Arabic and even I can tell the translation is accurate.

Odhinn

NKante wrote: »

If you can't prove the translation is wrong, then stop your whinging. .

The translation can't be trusted due to the source.

irishgrover

NKante wrote: »

Shooting hostile border infiltrators is allowed.

In fact is happens all over the world every day, usually with drug smugglers.

Again, I'd like some of the Hamas cheerleaders on here to try and rush the border of India/Pakistan or South/North Korea. Let us know how you got on, or perhaps get your next of kin to let us know.

This is such a simplistic, tiring and unintelligent view of the world.
Just because something is "allowed" does not mean that it is morally right or is the just thing to do.
Because Hamas are a bunch of murdering, zelots, manipulating their own civilian population does not justify mass shootings of unarmed protesters.
If a child or an unarmed person is throwing rocks and or walking towards your border just because you "are allowed" to shoot them in the head, does not mean that shooting them in the head is the correct thing to do.
Judging your actions on, or setting your standards based on the level of those that you claim to be almost sub human terrorists does nothing to advance your own cause, your own way of live or your own culture.
Israel could easily defend it's borders against unarmed civilians without killing them, but it very actively chooses instead to kill them, because it's easier, cheaper, less messy and ultimately because they genuinely believe that God has told them that they are allowed to do so.

wes

NKante wrote: »

If you can't prove the translation is wrong, then stop your whinging.

No whinging here. Your just annoyed someone called you out on the propaganda your spreading.

I have proven the source to be untrustworthy. So unless you can prove me wrong, your out of luck.

NKante wrote: »

I have a base level understanding of Arabic and even I can tell the translation is accurate.

So? There are plenty of way to mess with a video, including misleading editing etc. Also, a randomer on the Internet isn't a trustworthy source either. So your back to square one.

Get back to me, when you have source from somewhere that isn't a propaganda outfit.