Does Israel want to wipe out the Palestinians?

Ozymandius2011

Disturbing stories today from that region. One is that the Israeli government is refusing to allow the UN observers to visit Palestinian areas. A second is that Israeli settler organisations are planning legal challenges to the right of residency of Arabs in 200 homes in East Jerusalem.

I recall when the Milosevic regime in Serbia was stalling on allowing UN observers into Kosovo in 1999, and I recall what that that was a harbinger of.

Odhinn

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

Disturbing stories today from that region. One is that the Israeli government is refusing to allow the UN observers to visit Palestinian areas. A second is that Israeli settler organisations are planning legal challenges to the right of residency of Arabs in 200 homes in East Jerusalem.

I recall when the Milosevic regime in Serbia was stalling on allowing UN observers into Kosovo in 1999, and I recall what that that was a harbinger of.

Unfortunately Israel will continue its program of slow drip ethnic cleansing with no consequences.

Odhinn

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

Disturbing stories today from that region. One is that the Israeli government is refusing to allow the UN observers to visit Palestinian areas. A second is that Israeli settler organisations are planning legal challenges to the right of residency of Arabs in 200 homes in East Jerusalem.

I recall when the Milosevic regime in Serbia was stalling on allowing UN observers into Kosovo in 1999, and I recall what that that was a harbinger of.

Given the behaviour of the Israeli courts in the West Bank, (which by rights they should have no authority over) they have reason for optimism.

https://www.btselem.org/publications/summaries/201902_fake_justice

Ozymandius2011

Odhinn wrote: »

Given the behaviour of the Israeli courts in the West Bank, (which by rights they should have no authority over) they have reason for optimism.

https://www.btselem.org/publications/summaries/201902_fake_justice

Part of the problem is that the Israeli Supreme Court judges are not there for life. They are term limited, which allows political stooges to be placed on the court.

Danzy

Problem is everyone knows if the Palestinians get the right of return, that the Jews will be wiped out after.

The Israelis are pricks though as well.

Atoms for Peace

The normally efficient Israelites are doing quite a poor job of wiping them out.

Odhinn

Danzy wrote: »

Problem is everyone knows if the Palestinians get the right of return, that the Jews will be wiped out after.

The Israelis are pricks though as well.

The "right of return" they ask for in talks is not the blank demand it used to be, by any measure -



"..........they were reported to be willing to discuss limiting the number of Palestinian refugees returning to 100,000 over 10 years."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-12263095


"Palestinian negotiators privately agreed that only 10,000 refugees and their families, out of a total refugee population exceeding 5 million, could return to Israel as part of a peace settlement, leaked confidential documents reveal. PLO leaders also accepted Israel's demand to define itself as an explicitly Jewish state, in sharp contrast to their public position."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jan/24/papers-palestinian-leaders-refugees-fight

Odhinn

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

The normally efficient Israelites are doing quite a poor job of wiping them out.

It's about land primarily. They want territory sans the Palestinians on it, thus the slow drip ethnic cleansing.

markodaly

Odhinn wrote: »

It's about land primarily. They want territory sans the Palestinians on it, thus the slow drip ethnic cleansing.

So it's not genocide or ethnic cleansing. Glad we cleared that up.

Earthsnotflat

How do you negotiate with someone who wants to wipe you out off the surface of the earth, who treats murder of innocent civilians as noble thing and rewards family of terrorists with lifetime financial support...

Subcomandante Marcos

Exactly, how can the Palestinians negotiate with an apartheid state that wants their destruction, routinely enacts human rights violations, war crimes and crimes against humanity upon them and is headed by a party who's ministers proclaim things like "there will never be a Palestinian state"?

Odhinn

Earthsnotflat wrote: »

How do you negotiate with someone who wants to wipe you out off the surface of the earth, who treats murder of innocent civilians as noble thing and rewards family of terrorists with lifetime financial support...

Who are you referring to?


Considering that Palestine is illegally occupied and being colonised, why do you think that the "terrorists" who resist this are anything other than resistance fighters?

Earthsnotflat

Ok, so I see facts are lost on you... I meant palestinian state sponsoring terrorists.
Such 'heros' murdering kids in their beds, shooting to pregnant women at bus stops, raping and murdering teenagers in woods... But sure it pays to be hero, government will fund their families. I can agree on one thing, Palestinians are victims here too but of their own government who is their own worse enemy , who prefers to spend millions to dig tunnels to attack israel then on much needed civil infrastructure. But sure, 'peace loving' Palestinian authorities just need one thing to leave in peace, wipe their neighbors out, then it'll be peace on earth. You know, some human sacrifice needed on the way, misery is good to keep propaganda alive.

Wibbs

While a daftly complex issue this kinda sums up the situation as far as land goes pretty well.

Odhinn

Earthsnotflat wrote: »

Ok, so I see facts are (.............)ay, misery is good to keep propaganda alive.

The vast majority of children killed are killed by the IDF. The vast majority of attacks are by the IDF and "settlers" (colonists) on the Palestinian people.




Tell me, if you would, what the Palestinians should do to end the occupation and colonisation of the West Bank, Arab East Jerusalem etc

Earthsnotflat

Odhinn wrote: »

The vast majority of children killed are killed by the IDF..

Tell me, if you would, what the Palestinians should do to end the occupation and colonisation of the West Bank, Arab East Jerusalem etc

Would that be because palestinian terrorists place their missiles in 'strategic' places like schools and hospitals, or maybe because they teach in school about 'virtous' of suiside missions?
Seriously I don't intend to agitate anyone's opinions here, if that was even possible, not worth the effort.
Why you deffend the kind of mindset present in isis or boko haram or the likes in here I can't understand. As to your last question, you see, the notion 'collonisation' is the problem. I'm sure it was discussed here before but, israel has thousands of years of history in the region, as to 'palestinians' there has never been such nation before. And the last almost 2000 yrs before jews settled back in, the land laid iddle, where were 'palestinians' then to claim it...
I'm sure both sides would love to find some solution to end the impass, but palestinian authorities need to get serious, to be treated seriously, that means stop sponsoring terrorists from international aid's money, why that's so difficult if they really want peace...

end of the road

Earthsnotflat wrote: »

Would that be because palestinian terrorists place their missiles in 'strategic' places like schools and hospitals, or maybe because they teach in school about 'virtous' of suiside missions?
Seriously I don't intend to agitate anyone's opinions here, if that was even possible, not worth the effort.

nope, this was all debunked. a missile was found in 1 building and was removed. the israely government/IDF then stretched that incident into a claim that missiles are stored in schools and hospitals as a rule, which they then
use as propaganda to justify deliberately bombing schools and hospitals and targeting civilians.

Earthsnotflat wrote: »

Why you deffend the kind of mindset present in isis or boko haram or the likes in here I can't understand.

it's not surprising you can't understand it given it's not true.

Earthsnotflat wrote: »

As to your last question, you see, the notion 'collonisation' is the problem. I'm sure it was discussed here before but, israel has thousands of years of history in the region, as to 'palestinians' there has never been such nation before. And the last almost 2000 yrs before jews settled back in, the land laid iddle, where were 'palestinians' then to claim it...

there is no doubt jews lived in the region for thousands of years however there was no israel. israel is a biblical ideal. the palestinians themselves also have lived there for thousands of years and the fact there was no state of palestine also means nothing. israel is engaging in colonisation of the people of what is now palestine.

Earthsnotflat wrote: »

I'm sure both sides would love to find some solution to end the impass, but palestinian authorities need to get serious, to be treated seriously, that means stop sponsoring terrorists from international aid's money, why that's so difficult if they really want peace...

israel also need to get even more serious. stop ethnic cleansing. stop stealing land and constantly expanding outside their borders, the borders as set out in 1948 and which are their only legitimate borders. stop colonisation. stop breaking international law after international law. stop implementing racist and religious discriminatory policies toards minorities living in the state.

Odhinn

Earthsnotflat wrote: »

Would that be because palestinian terrorists place their missiles in 'strategic' places like schools and hospitals, or maybe because they teach in school about 'virtous' of suiside missions?
Seriously I don't intend to agitate anyone's opinions here, if that was even possible, not worth the effort.

The facts don't bear that notion out.

Earthsnotflat wrote: »

Why you deffend the kind of mindset present in isis or boko haram or the likes in here I can't understand. As to your last question, you see, the notion 'collonisation' is the problem. I'm sure it was discussed here before but, israel has thousands of years of history in the region, as to 'palestinians' there has never been such nation before. And the last almost 2000 yrs before jews settled back in, the land laid iddle, where were 'palestinians' then to claim it...

ISIS consider palestinians apostate. Nether the PLO or Hamas share their views.



There never was an australia, USA, united Greece, Belgium etc either.



Palestinians are genetically close to Jews.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/05/000509003653.htm



The land did not lay idle, as is documented in the 1946 report by the Anglo American Inquiry for the UN. The vast majority of arable land was worked by Palestinian farmers. "A survey Of Palestine" is online (free access) and available to purchase.

Earthsnotflat wrote: »

I'm sure both sides would love to find some solution to end the impass, but palestinian authorities need to get serious, to be treated seriously, that means stop sponsoring terrorists from international aid's money, why that's so difficult if they really want peace...

Why is the onus on Palestinians to drop all resistance action while the state of Israel keeps building on territory outside its legal borders? Do you believe that the colonisation of palestinian land is somehow legitamate?

old_aussie

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

If any European nation behaved like that they would be kicked out of the EU. And rightly so.

You mean like Poland and Hungary.

They don't want immigrant **** in their country.

Poland defended Europe against islamic invasions before, and they're damn sure that they are not going let this **** just walk into the country and try and take over!

branie2

No

end of the road

old_aussie wrote: »

You mean like Poland and Hungary.

They don't want immigrant **** in their country.

Poland defended Europe against islamic invasions before, and they're damn sure that they are not going let this **** just walk into the country and try and take over!

both of those countries while their government's behaviour in general is concerning and unacceptible, are not comparible to israel and the crimes it has committed and continues to commit.
it is the europeans who have migrated to israel that are emmigrants/and not the palestinian people living within their territory or within israel.

Odhinn

old_aussie wrote: »

You mean like Poland and Hungary.

They don't want immigrant **** in their country.

Poland defended Europe against islamic invasions before, and they're damn sure that they are not going let this **** just walk into the country and try and take over!

There's no comparison to whats going on in the middle east.

Ozymandius2011

I would like to tackle the claim made online by some Israel supporters in relation to the Geneva Conventions. Its defenders have argued that the convention only applies to conflicts between state actors. While parts of the Geneva Convention do only apply to state actors, this is not the case for Common Article III, which states:

.....Common Article 3 relating to non-international armed conflict
This article states that the certain minimum rules of war apply to armed conflicts " where at least one Party is not a State".[37] The interpretation of the term armed conflict and therefore the applicability of this article is a matter of debate.[23] For example, it would apply to conflicts between the Government and rebel forces, or between two rebel forces, or to other conflicts that have all the characteristics of war, whether carried out within the confines of one country or not.[38] There is two criteria to distinguish non-international armed conflicts from lower forms of violence. The level of violence has to be of certain intensity, for example when the state cannot contain the situation with regular police forces. Also, involved non-state groups need to have a certain level of organization, like a military command structure.[39]

The other Geneva Conventions are not applicable in this situation but only the provisions contained within Article 3,[23] and additionally within the language of Protocol II. The rationale for the limitation is to avoid conflict with the rights of Sovereign States that were not part of the treaties. When the provisions of this article apply, it states that:[40]

Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria. To this end, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:
violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
taking of hostages;
outrages upon dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment; and
the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.
The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.....

In February,. UN independent commission published a report accusing Israel of war crimes, including intentional targeting of children, wheelchair users and journalists.