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We need more Prisons

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    #62
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users Posts: 10,799 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    Doltanian wrote: »
    How about a proper justice system and just execute the scum, one bullet to the head and bill their family’s for it.

    There is no justice in Ireland, the majority of the Gardai are corrupt and the judges are in the side of the criminals and the parasitic legal profession, if any thieves come to me I’ll deal with them myself, and if anyone of my family were murdered etc I would execute them myself.

    Until sentencing gets longer and more prisons are built and bring back hanging and the death sentence then or is a complete waste of time.

    People can’t be rehabilitated they need to be put down and anyone with 10+ convictions should be killed or 3+ serious convictions. The liberal left wing politics is the biggest threat to Ireland, all drug addicts around the country should be rounded up and taken into prison and executed. If there was a proper harsh justice system things would quickly change for the better. Look at places like Dubai and Singapore to see what zero tolerance can achieve.

    Lol, I thought I logged onto the journal for a second there...

    Are you talking about all drugs or just drugs you don't like here?


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    #63
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Dr Crayfish wrote: »
    Well aren't you lucky you weren't born into squalor with abusive alcoholic or junkie parents? There but for the grace of God go I.

    Maybe theres an argument for somehow preventing such individuals from reproducing and continuing the cycle.
    If we stop incentivising reproduction by people thst are unable and/or unwillling to raise children.

    Ive more sympathy for a victim of crime than the perpetrator. But thats just me.


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    #64
    Dr Crayfish
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Maybe theres an argument for somehow preventing such individuals from reproducing and continuing the cycle.
    If we stop incentivising reproduction by people thst are unable and/or unwillling to raise children.

    Ive more sympathy for a victim of crime than the perpetrator. But thats just me.

    Well, the way things are now it's inconvenient for educated hard working people to have kids but convenient for poor people on welfare to have kids. It looks like your Antos and Shania's will far outnumber Rossas and Sorchas in the future.


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    #65
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Doltanian wrote: »
    . If there was a proper harsh justice system things would quickly change for the better. Look at places like Dubai and Singapore to see what zero tolerance can achieve.

    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Maybe theres an argument for somehow preventing such individuals from reproducing and continuing the cycle.
    If we stop incentivising reproduction by people thst are unable and/or unwillling to raise children.

    Ive more sympathy for a victim of crime than the perpetrator. But thats just me.

    This thread has now begun advocating control of human reproduction and holding up Dubai as a role model for society.

    I'm out of this discussion so!


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    #66
    hurler32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 451 ✭✭hurler32


    For those on the minimum wage why would they bother ?/
    Better off on the Dole topped up with a bit of crime.....


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    #67
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,099 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Maybe theres an argument for somehow preventing such individuals from reproducing and continuing the cycle.
    If we stop incentivising reproduction by people thst are unable and/or unwillling to raise children.

    Ive more sympathy for a victim of crime than the perpetrator. But thats just me.

    Repealing the 8th, you mean?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #68
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    hurler32 wrote: »
    So let lowlifes away with committing crime after crime which is whats presently happening?...

    Noooooooo, they aren't lowlifes, they are poor unfortunate's :rolleyes::rolleyes:


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    #69
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,099 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Doltanian wrote: »
    How about a proper justice system and just execute the scum, one bullet to the head and bill their family’s for it.

    There is no justice in Ireland, the majority of the Gardai are corrupt and the judges are in the side of the criminals and the parasitic legal profession, if any thieves come to me I’ll deal with them myself, and if anyone of my family were murdered etc I would execute them myself.

    Until sentencing gets longer and more prisons are built and bring back hanging and the death sentence then or is a complete waste of time.

    People can’t be rehabilitated they need to be put down and anyone with 10+ convictions should be killed or 3+ serious convictions. The liberal left wing politics is the biggest threat to Ireland, all drug addicts around the country should be rounded up and taken into prison and executed. If there was a proper harsh justice system things would quickly change for the better. Look at places like Dubai and Singapore to see what zero tolerance can achieve.

    On the one hand, I agree with what you say (regarding multiple convictions) on the other hand, prison simple doesn't work as a deterrent no matter how hard it is. Criminals treat it as a badge of honour.

    Can you tell me exactly what zero tolerance can achieve? And, if you're using Singapore and Dubai as examples, I'll be looking for direct causation, where any safer society is as a direct result of the policy.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #70
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Repealing the 8th, you mean?

    No introducing a benefits cap will work fine.
    SW medical card HAP for you and your 2 kids.
    Have more kids support them yourself.
    Different rules for people left parenting alone by a bereavement.


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    #71
    spindex
    Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭spindex


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Roughly 60% of inmates re-offend upon release, so I'd say, it probably, overall, wouldn't do much. Out of sight, out of mind isn't working. Time to try something different

    Put them up again a wall, one bullet, bang bang. All over


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    #72
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,886 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    spindex wrote: »
    Put them up again a wall, one bullet, bang bang. All over

    and that solves our crime issues by????


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    #73
    Dr Crayfish
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    splinter65 wrote: »
    No introducing a benefits cap will work fine.
    SW medical card HAP for you and your 2 kids.
    Have more kids support them yourself.
    Different rules for people left parenting alone by a bereavement.

    But what happens if the mother goes and has 5 kids, and she can't afford to look after them, starving etc? Do we just let them die?
    I agree these idiots shouldn't be having loads of kids, but it's not the children's fault they were born so should they really have to suffer based on their parents poor choices?


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    #74
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Probably wouldn't do much to reduce crime rates, might even increase them

    Leftist extremism seems to be rife these days in Ireland.

    Clearly, even with the thieving crims banged up, Gardaí would still have their hands full.


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    #75
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    and that solves our crime issues by????

    I tbink i recall reading a report that mentioned the recidivism rate among offenders subjected to capital punishment was almost 0%.


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    #76
    hurler32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 451 ✭✭hurler32


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    and that solves our crime issues by????

    What's your solution ? Continue as is with criminals etc laughing at the law abiding ?


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    #77
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    I've been saying it for years, and it's the one thing that annoyed me so much when I was a Garda. One of my early experiences in AGS was when we used to transport prisoners convicted in court to a custodial sentence. We would have bring the prisoner down to the jail, and return back to the station. Where I was based, this was usually at least 2 hours away. We brought one lad to Cork prisoner one afternoon after he was convicted to 3 weeks for a burglary (nothing taken, no damage, but previous convictions for the same). We got there at around 13.30. Dropped off the prisoner, got something quick to eat (as no lunch that day due to the escort), and were coming back into our station area, and there was pal walking back into the city from the train station. Stopped and asked him 'WTF!?', and he said they had no room, gave him €20 and a train ticket, and he was back the same time as us!

    So yes, we should have at least 1 more prison. I wanted Spike Island re-opened for high profile criminals, but instead they made it into a tourist attraction. There is not enough room to keep repeat offenders in, and they end up back on the street and doing the same as usual, knowing that it will take a lot or something really serious to land actual prison time, so the lovely criminals of this country commit crime knowing this, and laugh at the Gardaí who are constantly arresting them over and over for the same things, even while out on bail.

    So yes, more prisons should be a priority. I'd rather they be locked up and off the streets, rather than swanning around while on bail, still committing crime. It's a joke. And concurrent sentencing... There should be no such thing! Gowl the other day, out on bail for a serious offence, committed the same offence again, and got a concurrent sentence... I know rehabilitation is the key, but this country can't do that right yet, so until then, more prisons, longer sentences. Out of sight, out of mind is right in this case.

    Why make spike island a prison again? its historic and interesting, leave it for the public. Theres plenty of land around to build some ugly looking modern prison to keep criminals in


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    #78
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,886 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    hurler32 wrote: »
    What's your solution ? Continue as is with criminals etc laughing at the law abiding ?

    no clear solutions, but things such as poverty, inequality, inadequate social institutions that fail to deal with complex social problems and in some cases exberating them, certainly dont help


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    #79
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,099 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    splinter65 wrote: »
    No introducing a benefits cap will work fine.
    SW medical card HAP for you and your 2 kids.
    Have more kids support them yourself.
    Different rules for people left parenting alone by a bereavement.

    Eh... no, it won't.

    "Have more kids, support them yourself" only works if you can be 100% sure neither the parents nor the kids will resort to crime out of desperation if nothing else because the State isn't supporting them. Can you be sure of that?

    Also, the youngest kids are the ones who are going to suffer and grow up resentful.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #80
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    I tbink i recall reading a report that mentioned the recidivism rate among offenders subjected to capital punishment was almost 0%.

    Death penalty is grand until you kill someone who's actually innocent. People are acquitted and have convictions overturned. Can't do that for a dead person.


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    #81
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,842 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Why make spike island a prison again? its historic and interesting, leave it for the public. Theres plenty of land around to build some ugly looking modern prison to keep criminals in

    They tried rebooting Spike one time, it didn't end well.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/sparks-flying-on-spike-new-memoir-looks-at-infamous-riot-on-island-prison-453874.html

    “Spike Island was a powder-keg. It could have gone up at any time. It was totally, totally unsuitable for prisoners.”


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    #82
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Dr Crayfish wrote: »
    Well, the way things are now it's inconvenient for educated hard working people to have kids but convenient for poor people on welfare to have kids. It looks like your Antos and Shania's will far outnumber Rossas and Sorchas in the future.


    Do you not see something inherently wrong with the very people paying for all these Antos and Shanias, are unable to afford a Rossa for themselves because theyve already a Sorcha and Caoimhe, are up to their eyes in a mortgage, spending hours commuting past the very houses where Shanias auld man sleeps off his latest bout of drinking in the Rob and Kill Tavern, while Antos mother gets drilled by A.N.Other so she can get a bigger house for the trampoine and be nearer to her ma?

    I love kids. We would love another one or two, despite my back and left knee being shot from piggybacks. We have all the Peppa pig stuff in the attic. Can we afford them? No. Is our house big enough for two more? No.
    So what do we do? Act responsibility.


    Dr Crayfish wrote: »
    But what happens if the mother goes and has 5 kids, and she can't afford to look after them, starving etc? Do we just let them die?
    I agree these idiots shouldn't be having loads of kids, but it's not the children's fault they were born so should they really have to suffer based on their parents poor choices?

    Existing kids need to be looked after by the state, no argument there. But at the moment these kids are also being lost.


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    #83
    Kimbot
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,452 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Why make spike island a prison again? its historic and interesting, leave it for the public. Theres plenty of land around to build some ugly looking modern prison to keep criminals in

    Sure didnt they spend a fortune on land for thornton hall to build a prison.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/pac-to-investigate-spending-of-50m-on-thorton-hall-1.2102148


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    #84
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Death penalty is grand until you kill someone who's actually innocent. People are acquitted and have convictions overturned. Can't do that for a dead person.

    True. So id reserve it for certain either particularly heinous crimes, or repeat offenders where theres incontrovertible evidence.

    And im sure many victims would sleep better knowing their tormenter isnt up for parole next year.


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    #85
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    I tbink i recall reading a report that mentioned the recidivism rate among offenders subjected to capital punishment was almost 0%.

    Would it be sensible to perhaps look at other countries for guidance? We could look at the good old US of A. They have the death penalty, they have non-concurrent sentencing, they have 3 strike rules, they have chain gangs and they have high level of recidivism, over 70% within 5 years.

    We could look at Norway too. Norway actually tries to rehabilitate its prisoners. First, it is very picky about what criminal it actually sends to prison and has various programmes to help convicted criminals, those sent to prison and those not sent to prison. The prisons are very, very cushy and their recidivism rate is around 20%.

    So here's the thing. Study after study, and real world experience shows that most of the ideas being mooted in this thread don't actually do anything to rehabilitate criminals or reduce recidivism. If all you want to do is punish people and make them suffer, then perhaps they do that job, but if you are actually interested in improving society, rather than punishing individuals that commit crime, then moving more toward a model like Norway's is the better solution.

    I suspect that in Ireland, like in the UK, any move towards a model like Norway's would be greeted by howls of protest. Any move that shows any kind of compassion or desire to help criminals is screamed down, even though, as Norway shows, it would be much more effective in rehabilitating criminals, reducing crime and improving society generally.

    If you are one of the people that think we should bring back the death penalty, public floggings, slopping out, slavery for criminals, and longer sentences for any crimes, then you need to ask yourself if you are actually interested reducing crime and recidivism and improving society (as opposed to simply punishing people) because those things are not compatible.

    MrP


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    #86
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Eh... no, it won't.

    "Have more kids, support them yourself" only works if you can be 100% sure neither the parents nor the kids will resort to crime out of desperation if nothing else because the State isn't supporting them. Can you be sure of that?

    It applies to everyone not on social welfare...
    Your mentality is almost akin to paying them off, and still no guarantee they wont resort to crime!

    When did we stop being responsible for our mickeys and vags?


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    #87
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    splinter65 wrote: »
    No introducing a benefits cap will work fine.

    Yeah. It's working great in the UK. :rolleyes:

    MrP


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    #88
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,099 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    It applies to everyone not on social welfare...
    Your mentality is almost akin to paying them off, and still no guarantee they wont resort to crime!

    When did we stop being responsible for our mickeys and vags?

    My "menality" is covered in original post: allow abortion.

    Now, you want answer the question posed in the post you replied to or accept your idea won't work?

    "Have more kids, support them yourself" only works if you can be 100% sure neither the parents nor the kids will resort to crime out of desperation if nothing else because the State isn't supporting them. Can you be sure of that?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #89
    The Ging and I
    Registered Users Posts: 376 ✭✭The Ging and I


    Give Spike Island to Mr O Leary to be run as a private prison - he would make the crims pay ... and pay.... :-)


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    #90
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    MrPudding wrote: »
    If you are one of the people that think we should bring back the death penalty, public floggings, slopping out, slavery for criminals, and longer sentences for any crimes, then you need to ask yourself if you are actually interested reducing crime and recidivism and improving society (as opposed to simply punishing people) because those things are not compatible.

    MrP

    A bit of both.
    We've neither at the moment
    And i dont think harsher sentencing and effective rehabilitation are mutually exclusive.
    Im all for giving a guy a chance, but dont make a mug of me. But i also believe theres some crimes the perp forfeits any right to exist.

    Roger


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    #91
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    My "menality" is covered in original post: allow abortion.

    Now, you want answer the question posed in the post you replied to or accept your idea won't work?

    "Have more kids, support them yourself" only works if you can be 100% sure neither the parents nor the kids will resort to crime out of desperation if nothing else because the State isn't supporting them. Can you be sure of that?

    What are you asking me?

    Allow abortion? Go for it.
    If someone finds themselves with a pregnancy and they're either unable/incapable/unwilling to support the child, im ok with it. Particularly where theyre unable. (Id prefer they adopt the child, but thats just an opinion)
    Youre barking up the wrong tree with your "repeal 8th". Im not against abortion.

    Anythehow, How do the current state supports ensure they dont turn to crime?


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