We need more Prisons

gifted

Send them to Australia....oh wait...that's been done....send them to Leitrim....

weldoninhio

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Roughly 60% of inmates re-offend upon release, so I'd say, it probably, overall, wouldn't do much. Out of sight, out of mind isn't working. Time to try something different

There's the problem. Longer sentences might help.

myshirt

gifted wrote: »

Send them to Australia....oh wait...that's been done....send them to Leitrim....

What happened to maintaining some humanity?

Bit harsh to be threatening someone you'll send them to Leitrim.

Rhys Essien

D3V!L wrote: »

Reopen Spike Island and privatize it. Then put out to tender 2 or 3 other prisons, also privatized.

You mightn’t have heard but Spike Island is now a World Class tourist attraction.It won a top award the other week.

DEFTLEFTHAND

There were plans to close Mountjoy years ago and build a mega prison outside of the city. Land was accquired, designs and pp were appoved but the project never reached the building phase. Millions were wasted on this debacle.

splinter65

splinter65 wrote: »

Your talking about, for the most part, unemployable people.

Actually, I'm talking about quite a few more than those.

They come from a background where nobody has finished secondary school, nobody has ever had a job and there is an unshakeable sense of entitlements and rights but no idea about obligations and personal responsibility.

Yup. Many will be like that. Then there will be plenty who have finished their leaving cert, perhaps got a diploma/degree, and failed in modern society for one reason or another. There are plenty of those who commit crimes who have completed the standard educational procedures but failed with living in a modern society. Our educational systems are not exactly set up to prepare people for either real life or in many cases, actually give employable skills that last over time.

And honestly, even if we were to use the generalization that you seek to use, we could seek to cut out the minority that does commit crime(s) and is looking for a chance to start again. Might be small numbers, but better than what we currently have.

There is also substance addictions, mental health issues brought about from the addiction issues and chaotic lifestyle.

Yup. Agreed. Which is why better research into such cases is needed, not to understand them (or sympathise), but rather towards genuine rehabilitation.

All the while you think you are rehabilitating them, they are planning the next robbery.
These are people who have no hesitation hitting an old woman in the face with a Hurley or tying up a small child.
They are not misunderstood creatures. They come from houses where there are 5 or 6 iPhone 7s a 52” Telly and an Audi parked out front.
They go to magaluf on holidays.
What incentive is there for them to work?

Well... let's be practical here. Harsher punishments aren't going to happen anytime soon. Removing or reducing their 'human' rights isn't going to happen. The death penalty is not going to be allowed. Arena style battles to the death are unfortunately not going to be allowed either.

Prisons are overcrowded, and new prisons will just be filled quickly within a few years since we haven't provided any efficient manner of rehabilitation or reintegration of those committed into society.

So, working with what we have available and what is likely to be allowed under the current moral/social/political landscape, how would you seek to reduce these repeat offenders?

hurler32

If your on the dole which isnt a bad core income , then you top this up with a bit of crime and an odd personal injuries claim , shoplift a share of your groceries...you are far better off then Honest Pat or Mary who work 40 hours a week paying their way ...

hurler32

hurler32 wrote: »

If your on the dole which isnt a bad core income , then you top this up with a bit of crime and an odd personal injuries claim , shoplift a share of your groceries...you are far better off then Honest Pat or Mary who work 40 hours a week paying their way ...

Might be better off selling imported cigs.

Wanderer78

hurler32 wrote: »

If your on the dole which isnt a bad core income , then you top this up with a bit of crime and an odd personal injuries claim , shoplift a share of your groceries...you are far better off then Honest Pat or Mary who work 40 hours a week paying their way ...

so is the problem with crime or with take home pay from working honestly?

Agent Coulson

Open a few more prisons get rid concurrent sentencing you break the law you serve the time for that crime not all you crimes at once.


Released earlier or out on bail wear an ankle tracker till the time you were originally sentenced to is fully up if you commit a crime while wearing it you get an automatic 5 years that you need to serve in full on top of whatever you get sentenced too for that crime.

whisky_galore

myshirt wrote: »

Christ, 15 children. How does he manage to afford to support them? That's some going.

And regular working shmoes wondering if they can support one or two kids...

rgodard80a

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Released earlier or out on bail wear an ankle tracker till the time you were originally sentenced to is fully up if you commit a crime while wearing it you get an automatic 5 years that you need to serve in full on top of whatever you get sentenced too for that crime.

+1 for tracking prisoners.

Also, a mandatory CAB audit for serious crimes.

Roger Hassenforder

myshirt wrote: »

Christ, 15 children. How does he manage to afford to support them? That's some going.

He doesnt.
I do
You do too possibly.

hurler32

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so is the problem with crime or with take home pay from working honestly?

The problem is those that live this life are allowed do so by our do gooder society, another problem is those that live this life are outbreeding the law abiding plus our judicial system is very very lenient so win win for the bad types amongst us...plus huge frustration for those bursting themselves to do things honestly..

Wanderer78

hurler32 wrote: »

The problem is those that live this life are allowed do so by our do gooder society, another problem is those that live this life are outbreeding the law abiding plus our judicial system is very very lenient so win win for the bad types amongst us...plus huge frustration for those bursting themselves to do things honestly..

a lot more complicated than that

Roger Hassenforder

Wanderer78 wrote: »

a lot more complicated than that

But not wrong

Wanderer78

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

But not wrong

debatable, but the causes of crime are actually very complex with no clear solutions

Potential-Monke

I've been saying it for years, and it's the one thing that annoyed me so much when I was a Garda. One of my early experiences in AGS was when we used to transport prisoners convicted in court to a custodial sentence. We would have bring the prisoner down to the jail, and return back to the station. Where I was based, this was usually at least 2 hours away. We brought one lad to Cork prisoner one afternoon after he was convicted to 3 weeks for a burglary (nothing taken, no damage, but previous convictions for the same). We got there at around 13.30. Dropped off the prisoner, got something quick to eat (as no lunch that day due to the escort), and were coming back into our station area, and there was pal walking back into the city from the train station. Stopped and asked him 'WTF!?', and he said they had no room, gave him €20 and a train ticket, and he was back the same time as us!

So yes, we should have at least 1 more prison. I wanted Spike Island re-opened for high profile criminals, but instead they made it into a tourist attraction. There is not enough room to keep repeat offenders in, and they end up back on the street and doing the same as usual, knowing that it will take a lot or something really serious to land actual prison time, so the lovely criminals of this country commit crime knowing this, and laugh at the Gardaí who are constantly arresting them over and over for the same things, even while out on bail.

So yes, more prisons should be a priority. I'd rather they be locked up and off the streets, rather than swanning around while on bail, still committing crime. It's a joke. And concurrent sentencing... There should be no such thing! Gowl the other day, out on bail for a serious offence, committed the same offence again, and got a concurrent sentence... I know rehabilitation is the key, but this country can't do that right yet, so until then, more prisons, longer sentences. Out of sight, out of mind is right in this case.

Baron Kurtz

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Reopen Spike Island, and a few of the old Gaols, problem solved.

Walls might be a bit thick for WiFi to work properly though!

splinter65

myshirt wrote: »

Christ, 15 children. How does he manage to afford to support them? That's some going.

He doesn’t support them at all. We do.

Dr Crayfish

I'd rather see money go into rehabilitation efforts to prevent more crime rather than locking more people up. Doesn't really solve anything.

splinter65

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Actually, I'm talking about quite a few more than those.



Yup. Many will be like that. Then there will be plenty who have finished their leaving cert, perhaps got a diploma/degree, and failed in modern society for one reason or another. There are plenty of those who commit crimes who have completed the standard educational procedures but failed with living in a modern society. Our educational systems are not exactly set up to prepare people for either real life or in many cases, actually give employable skills that last over time.

And honestly, even if we were to use the generalization that you seek to use, we could seek to cut out the minority that does commit crime(s) and is looking for a chance to start again. Might be small numbers, but better than what we currently have.



Yup. Agreed. Which is why better research into such cases is needed, not to understand them (or sympathise), but rather towards genuine rehabilitation.



Well... let's be practical here. Harsher punishments aren't going to happen anytime soon. Removing or reducing their 'human' rights isn't going to happen. The death penalty is not going to be allowed. Arena style battles to the death are unfortunately not going to be allowed either.

Prisons are overcrowded, and new prisons will just be filled quickly within a few years since we haven't provided any efficient manner of rehabilitation or reintegration of those committed into society.

So, working with what we have available and what is likely to be allowed under the current moral/social/political landscape, how would you seek to reduce these repeat offenders?

I’d reduce the repeat offenders by making it impossible to reoffend a 3rd time by putting them in prison, to work a full 8 hour day supervised in the community cutting back ditches on rural roads picking up litter painting/repairing public buildings washing windows garden maintenance of the disadvantaged in our society for a minimum of 2 years.
If you don’t stay out of trouble forever then you can go back inside and repeat the same for 5 years.
Apart from holding the offenders hand while you sympathize with them over the bad desicions they themselves made in order to get to be in trouble over tying up an old man and beating him with a sweeping brush, what is your suggestion?

splinter65

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I'd rather see money go into rehabilitation efforts to prevent more crime rather than locking more people up. Doesn't really solve anything.

But what exactly do you mean by rehab? Rehab implies that this person was once a regular good guy/girl.
No. They weren’t.

soups05

Wanderer78 wrote: »

debatable, but the causes of crime are actually very complex with no clear solutions

not that complex really, some people don't care about others rights, feelings or property. I am guessing the posters who express a lets all be friends and help the poor souls type of attitude have never really experienced any crime.

let's put this in a more personal light shall we? january 14th this year i hear a noise in my garden and go out to see what happened. jumped by two guys and ended up with a four day stay in hospital, unable to eat due to a broken jaw.

5 MONTHS later i was finally cleared to return to a normal diet. can't even look at rice and soup anymore TBH. I still cannot eat the foods I used to as my broken, loose teeth make chewing difficult.

I still see them on a regular basis, walking freely down the street, giving me abuse and threats. I on the other hand have...lets just say i have issues since the attack. I am unemployed so I don't feel like am better than them because of a job, but I am better than them Cos i don't go around randomly attacking people.

The last year in college was a helluva struggle, just today I was out shopping and had to come home due to a panic attack being surrounded by so many people. the stress of exams and deadline prob did not help tbf.

if I had broken my jaw in a car crash I would be getting 80-100k apparently, if these guys had money i could sue for compensation,sadly they have nothing. despite the iphones and holidays referred to by another poster of course.

Si i challenge those who are defending prisoners, how are you going to protect me from guys like this? or should i just execute the scum myself as it seems you would jump to my defence then?

oh and before you ask, the case is not up in court yet, so they can commit more crimes to take into consideration while they are waiting.

my view? jail the fkers, for as long as possible, intro a three strikes rule and keep them locked up in a small cell forever. no sky tv, no gym, no fancy rehab bs. treat them like the scum they are.

now explain how am wrong?

Doltanian

How about a proper justice system and just execute the scum, one bullet to the head and bill their family’s for it.

There is no justice in Ireland, the majority of the Gardai are corrupt and the judges are in the side of the criminals and the parasitic legal profession, if any thieves come to me I’ll deal with them myself, and if anyone of my family were murdered etc I would execute them myself.

Until sentencing gets longer and more prisons are built and bring back hanging and the death sentence then or is a complete waste of time.

People can’t be rehabilitated they need to be put down and anyone with 10+ convictions should be killed or 3+ serious convictions. The liberal left wing politics is the biggest threat to Ireland, all drug addicts around the country should be rounded up and taken into prison and executed. If there was a proper harsh justice system things would quickly change for the better. Look at places like Dubai and Singapore to see what zero tolerance can achieve.

Dr Crayfish

splinter65 wrote: »

But what exactly do you mean by rehab? Rehab implies that this person was once a regular good guy/girl.
No. They weren’t.

Well aren't you lucky you weren't born into squalor with abusive alcoholic or junkie parents? There but for the grace of God go I.

WoollyRedHat

Why can't we livd underwater? Ridicolous.

Petyr Baelish

There Irish Prison Service is currently working on a large number of projects throughout their estates in sites such as Castlerea, Mountjoy, Wheatfield, Cloverhill, Portlaoise and Dochas. There is a major expansion planned for Limerick prison next year.

BillyBobBS

hurler32 wrote: »

The Government announce Capital Investment programmes for Time, Im sure im not alone when I say we need a new prison or 2. The hard facts are we have no prison space hence hundreds are on Bail at any given time free to commit more crime like that poor Elderly Mans ordeal in Terenure this week. Others like those cousins in Limerick where the man dies as his house was been burgled get micky mouse sentences.
Dublin has lost count of the weekly shootings where as many parts of Rural Ireland are just burglary after burglary with no consequence . Extra Jails /Prison Space might help the lawlessness out there?

If only it was that easy. Doesn't work in America and they have the death penalty to boot and i say this as a victim of crime.

splinter65

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Well aren't you lucky you weren't born into squalor with abusive alcoholic or junkie parents? There but for the grace of God go I.

Oh well that’s alright then. Poor thing. Please go right ahead beating that old woman about the head with your 48 previous convictions.
I’m so sorry Santa didn’t bring you an Xbox when you were 10.