Medical student assaults girlfriend

Don Kiddick

Chrongen wrote: »

You need to look at this within the context of the law, not your emotions or societal taboos.

Does the law change when the sex of the perpetrator and/or victim is different? I don't think it does. I'm pretty sure it's applied the same across the board and sentencing guidelines are the same as well.

With that in mind let's just say that both parties were males. Male A comes home with a takeaway and sits down to eat it. Male B shoves it in his face and then hits him. Male A follows him into another room and gives him a dig, a few boots and pours a can of pop on him.
What should be the punishment for male A?

I'm aware that in this case the parties were male and female and that hitting a girl/woman no matter what the provocation is taboo but does the law see it that way?

Is the punishment for assaulting a woman in exact the same way as assaulting a man the same or not?

I'm pretty sure booze was involved too. I'm sure both parties were drunk and held severe animosity/contempt for each other when pissed. I'm pretty sure the girl knew exactly what buttons to push to get a reaction. I've seen it before, petty, nasty, spiteful, vindictive behaviour by a female in a relationship doing things just to hurt or humiliate the male and force a reaction.
Doesn't excuse him kicking her but if she was in a pub or restaurant and took it upon herself to throw a meal into another woman's face and then clattered that woman and the woman beat the sh1t out of her in retaliation most people would say that woman A got everything she deserved and more.

She got a beating...that's all that matters in the eyes of the law... leaving mysoginistic opinions aside.

Triceratops Ballet

Chrongen wrote: »

With that in mind let's just say that both parties were males. Male A comes home with a takeaway and sits down to eat it. Male B shoves it in his face and then hits him. Male A follows him into another room and gives him a dig, a few boots and pours a can of pop on him.
What should be the punishment for male A?

Doesn't excuse him kicking her but if she was in a pub or restaurant and took it upon herself to throw a meal into another woman's face and then clattered that woman and the woman beat the sh1t out of her in retaliation most people would say that woman A got everything she deserved and more.

The genders don't matter, it is still a disproportionate reaction. In both your scenarios Male A and the woman who followed the other woman and beat the sh1t out of her demonstrate an inability to act in a proportionate manner and are clearly dangerous individuals.

Billy86

Hoboo wrote: »

Yeah, to Leitrim.

With a name like Hugh Moody there's surely non-Irish lineage in there somewhere. I'm just curious since the regular "deport all foreigners* involved in crime" crowd should have been along aaaaages ago. They always seem to miss certain threads.

*Foreigners typically being classified as someone with foreign ancestry for an arbitrary, undisclosed number of generations back.

WHIP IT!

Deleted User wrote: »

Given how incredibly violent he was, the fact that he lost all control and pursued her to punch and kick her, trying to get to her when she was locked in another room, the petty nastiness behind emptying the drink all over her, I would happily bet that this won't be the last time he inflicts violence on some woman. He really should seek professional help to address the underlying cause for that level of rage.

Would have to agree with this. This wasn't just an over-reaction owing to a moment of madness. There is serious malice on display here and most likely serious underlying issues - I have no sympathy for him.

On an unrelated side note, I honestly don't know one 22 and/or 23YO who is mature enough to cohabit with a partner. They were going out less than a year and moved in together? What happened to, I dunno, getting to know your BF/GF first??

Gijoseph

Gijoseph wrote: »

Nope. I think violence on any level is uncalled for however in self defence (within reason) it is necessary no matter what your gender is.

There is no suggestion whatsoever that he acted in self defence.

If you believe he did so, it just means you don't understand the law of self defence.

It has no application and thus his legal team did not even attempt to raise it. Your point has no relevance to this case.

LadyMacBeth_

I think it sounds like they weren't getting on. She stayed up fuming, waiting for him to come home. He comes back pissed as a fart. An argument ensues and she shoves his food in his face. Uncalled for, and she should have had better self control, of course. Then the slapping starts but I don't know who slapped who first. That shouldn't have happened either. Then she walks away and that's when his retaliation is just completely out of proportion to what happened earlier, yes she'd made him angry and I can see why, but it doesn't justify what must have been a brutal attack on her. I mean he punched her in the back so she fell to the ground and then repeatedly kicked her when she was on the ground, she must have sustained injuries and they had the potential to be serious. Pouring coke over her is just a complete humiliation, a horrible thing to do to someone after you've just beaten them. Then he tries to bang and punch his way into the room she'd locked herself into. The poor girl must have been terrified at this stage. Shoving food in a drunk person's face and possibly slapping them is not the wisest of decisions, and it would definitely make someone angry but his reaction was to badly assault her, he is definitely in the wrong.

Chrongen

Don Kiddick wrote: »

She got a beating...that's all that matters in the eyes of the law... leaving mysoginistic opinions aside.

Nothing misogynistic about it, mate. Misogyny is a deep-seated resentment of women and something that I find repulsive, so watch who you're accusing of such a thing if you don't mind.

PandaPoo

WHIP IT! wrote: »

On an unrelated side note, I honestly don't know one 22 and/or 23YO who is mature enough to cohabit with a partner. They were going out less than a year and moved in together? What happened to, I dunno, getting to know your BF/GF first??

I was married at 22 after knowing each other less than a year. Wouldn't be the norm but not complete madness either.

Regarding the OP, she shouldn't have thrown a takeaway in his face, nobody should do that to anyone...but in no way did she deserve what happened. He's clearly unhinged, going to get a can of coke and pouring it on her while she lay there injured is psycho behaviour.
What a scumbag.

WHIP IT!

PandaPoo wrote: »

I was married at 22 after knowing each other less than a year. Wouldn't be the norm but not complete madness either.

Regarding the OP, she shouldn't have thrown a takeaway in his face, nobody should do that to anyone...but in no way did she deserve what happened. He's clearly unhinged, going to get a can of coke and pouring it on her while she lay there injured is psycho behaviour.
What a scumbag.

I get that, absolutely. It's very rare these days, although would have been quite regular in our parents' generation.

The thing is, these kids were living together three bloody weeks and a horrific incident like this happens! How well did they know each other? Three weeks is still the feckin Honeymoon period. I'm over-simplifying here, I know, but what on earth were they doing living together in the first place??

hiddenidentity

well hes not on the medical register anymore which is a good sign i suppose..

davo10

Unfortunately for him, this kid's medical career is ruined. A conviction would probably have resulted in sanction from the medical council up to removal from the register. But any hospital scheme/medical position he applies for will throw up the details of this assault when his name is googled. I can't imagine any Hospital/Clinic would take a chance on employing him. A career in research beckons.

Chrongen

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

The genders don't matter, it is still a disproportionate reaction. In both your scenarios Male A and the woman who followed the other woman and beat the sh1t out of her demonstrate an inability to act in a proportionate manner and are clearly dangerous individuals.

Makes sense, and I'm not condoning the reaction. But not all perpetrators of violence are dangers to society. Case in point would be a bullying victim. He/she may snap one day and pummel the tar out of their tormentor in a fit or uncontrollable rage but they would never dream of hurting anyone else ever. I don't think this guy is a danger to society either. Maybe an adjournment in contemplation of dismissal if he adheres to certain conditions such as attending some anger management sessions, is squeaky clean for the next couple of years, etc.

I'm loathe to give guys a pass just because they have a "bright career" ahead of them and certainly I despise seeing rich kids get sprung because daddy has influence like those scum who killed the guy outside annabel's nightclub. But by the same token I don't see how society is served by handing this guy a conviction that will effectively put an end to his medical career. The woman also assaulted him. Should they both be convicted and stricken from the medical register or whatever the Pharmacist equivalent is?

Don Kiddick

Chrongen wrote: »

Nothing misogynistic about it, mate. Misogyny is a deep-seated resentment of women and something that I find repulsive, so watch who you're accusing of such a thing if you don't mind.

When someone says that woman got everything she deserved... that shows a deep rooted hatred of women imo .... but you're welcome to say otherwise

Chrongen

hiddenidentity wrote: »

well hes not on the medical register anymore which is a good sign i suppose..

Was he actually convicted and stricken from the medical register? I thought he was ordered to pay the woman 5 grand and that the case was adjourned until next year.

hiddenidentity

I checked the register on medicalcouncil.ie and hes not on it so I assume he didnt register or got kicked off

PeterParker957

Don Kiddick wrote: »

When someone says that woman got everything she deserved... that shows a deep rooted hatred of women imo .... but you're welcome to say otherwise

I believe they're saying it purely because she started the altercation.

Yes his response was completely disproportionate and deserved an assault conviction (do we have ABH/GBH over here, anyone know ??).

However I was always told that if you start a fight you have to expect that sometimes you might come off worse.

Would he have beat her anyway ? Quite possibly, no way of knowing.

Chrongen

Chrongen wrote: »

The woman also assaulted him. Should they both be convicted and stricken from the medical register or whatever the Pharmacist equivalent is?

Are you equivocating the two?

Tbh, I think society is less at risk from food-in-face-pushers than people who beat and kick others to the ground, try to break down a door to get to them etc. If the latter costs someone their career, so be it.

PeterParker957

hiddenidentity wrote: »

I checked the register on medicalcouncil.ie and hes not on it so I assume he didnt register or got kicked off

He's still on a PG course so he may not be intending to register at the moment, or kicked off - all possible.

Plus your exams are valid for two years so there's that amount of time to do it in - he may also not plan to practice in Ireland.

Lots of possibilities.

PeterParker957

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you equivocating the two?

Tbh, I think society is less at risk from food-in-face-pushers than people who beat and kick others to the ground, try to break down a door to get to them etc. If the latter costs someone their career, so be it.

Love how you refer to it as "food-in-face-pushers" like it's nothing.

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/derby-man-threw-food-assaulted-755241

Thoughts ?

PeterParker957

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Love how you refer to it as "food-in-face-pushers" like it's nothing.

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/derby-man-threw-food-assaulted-755241

Thoughts ?

Thoughts about an unrelated assault in the UK?

None really.

But then again, it would be like me linking an attack where someone is kicked and punched to death in China and saying "thoughts?". It has no relevance to this case.

PeterParker957

Deleted User wrote: »

Thoughts about an unrelated assault in the UK?

None really.

But then again, it would be like me linking an attack where someone is kicked and punched to death in China and saying "thoughts?". It has no relevance to this case.

It's a man pushing food into a woman's face.

Whereas you've directly posted that a woman pushing food into a man's face is nothing.

Fine, blindly carry on white knighting.

Chrongen

Don Kiddick wrote: »

When someone says that woman got everything she deserved... that shows a deep rooted hatred of women imo .... but you're welcome to say otherwise

And I will say otherwise. I stated that most people would say that a woman in the scenario that I described got everything she deserved.

If a mother neglects, beats, tortures or even kills her children and is sent to prison then I would say she got what she deserved just as much as if a father did the same thing. There's nothing deep-rooted or misogynistic about that as you claim is your opinion.

You are entitled to your opinion but in this case, quite frankly, your opinion is inane.

PeterParker957

Chrongen wrote: »

And I will say otherwise. I stated that most people would say that a woman in the scenario that I described got everything she deserved.

If a mother neglects, beats, tortures or even kills her children and is sent to prison then I would say she got what she deserved just as much as if a father did the same thing. There's nothing deep-rooted or misogynistic about that as you claim is your opinion.

You are entitled to your opinion but in this case, quite frankly, your opinion is inane.

+1

Think about it logically - we wanted equality. No one would bat an eyelid if two men had a bit of a barney so why is there such a catastrophe when it happens to a woman ??

If I started a fight with a bloke and got the worst of it - I'd be the lamest kind of hypocrite to start with the "you can't hit a girl!!". Why not ? I hit him.

Sustained, unprovoked domestic violence is NOT the same as starting a fight and anyone who does that deserves everything they get.

Chrongen

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you equivocating the two?

Tbh, I think society is less at risk from food-in-face-pushers than people who beat and kick others to the ground, try to break down a door to get to them etc. If the latter costs someone their career, so be it.

Not at all. But would you call what she did "assault"? Forget about what HE did. We can all agree that his actions amounted to assault.

Should she be charged too with some degree of assault or affray or some reduced charge? She did after all slap him as well. Should she be convicted and stricken from the register?

Billy86

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Love how you refer to it as "food-in-face-pushers" like it's nothing.

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/derby-man-threw-food-assaulted-755241

Thoughts ?

PeterParker957 wrote: »

It's a man pushing food into a woman's face.

Whereas you've directly posted that a woman pushing food into a man's face is nothing.

Fine, blindly carry on white knighting.

My thought is you may not have read your own link:

23-year-old Derby man accused people in a chip shop of staring at him then went to his then partner’s home and threw food and assaulted her.

A court heard how James Hooper also slapped the woman, grabbed her by the throat and threatened to punch her after smoking cannabis and drinking alcohol.

Dr Brown

davo10 wrote: »

Unfortunately for him, this kid's medical career is ruined. A conviction would probably have resulted in sanction from the medical council up to removal from the register. But any hospital scheme/medical position he applies for will throw up the details of this assault when his name is googled. I can't imagine any Hospital/Clinic would take a chance on employing him. A career in research beckons.

And rightly so. Would you want a scumbag like him treating your family ?

lillycakes2

all because he is a doctor - he gets away lightly. everyone should remember his name, I wouldn't want him examining me or anyone I care about that's for sure. He should be ordered to go to AA and Anger management.........

PeterParker957

Billy86 wrote: »

My thought is you may not have read your own link:

23-year-old Derby man accused people in a chip shop of staring at him then went to his then partner’s home and threw food and assaulted her.

A court heard how James Hooper also slapped the woman, grabbed her by the throat and threatened to punch her after smoking cannabis and drinking alcohol.

I know - I'm not arguing he's anything other than a pathetic bully.

It's the "food pushing", I was curious whether it was okay as a woman did it - that was the insinuation from a previous post.

riffmongous

PeterParker957 wrote: »

+1

Think about it logically - we wanted equality. No one would bat an eyelid if two men had a bit of a barney so why is there such a catastrophe when it happens to a woman ??

If I started a fight with a bloke and got the worst of it - I'd be the lamest kind of hypocrite to start with the "you can't hit a girl!!". Why not ? I hit him.

Sustained, unprovoked domestic violence is NOT the same as starting a fight and anyone who does that deserves everything they get.

Deserves everything they get, really? The law says otherwise anyway but do you really think that?

Billy86

PeterParker957 wrote: »

I know - I'm not arguing he's anything other than a pathetic bully.

It's the "food pushing", I was curious whether it was okay as a woman did it - that was the insinuation from a previous post.

But he didn't just "push food in her face" in the story you linked to - he also slapped her and grabbed her by the throat. That's like someone calling another person a cnut before headbutting them, then complaining that they're being arrested for "just saying words".