Graham Lenihan "no good right wing comedians"

timthumbni

In my days at least there were a few decntnright wing comedians like Jim Davidson and Ben Elton. Too many snowflakes nowadays....

DickSwiveller

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

The problem with conservative viewpoints I have is that they sometimes tend to be more an attack on the left than an expression of right-wing ideals, I's just loony left this, soft touch left that; and I'm supposed to take this as a comprehensive well-thought-out viewpoint.




That said, I would totally agree with this: but I've had several occasions where I've had to point out the fourth-wave feminism and liberalism are actually not the same thing.

"The problem with conservative viewpoints I have is that they sometimes tend to be more an attack on the left than an expression of right-wing ideals, I's just loony left this, soft touch left that; and I'm supposed to take this as a comprehensive well-thought-out viewpoint."

You need to get off the internet and read proper conservative journals like the Spectator and National Review. Some very interesting conservative writers who have a lot to say on many issues.

Ralf and Florian

timthumbni wrote: »

In my days at least there were a few decntnright wing comedians like Jim Davidson and Ben Elton. Too many snowflakes nowadays....

Ben Elton right wing? That's up there with someone saying recently in another thread that the Indo is Marxist.

Prune Tracy

ligerdub wrote: »

There's more to Linehans post than suggested by the title here. He suggested that not only are there no good right wing comedians, he said they have no imagination and that there are no good writers either!

I've a few problems with this. The first is pretty much the vagueness in which he can make this statement. If somebody can come back to him with some examples where he's wrong he can just say "well I think we all know I meant more along the lines of [insert name]". It's disingenuous twaddle.

What he really wants is people to think purely of comedy and by that to think of Davidson and Manning and the typical 1970's and 1980's British stand-up.

The "writers" comment is obvious nonsense. The comedians thing is lower down the nonsense scale, but nonsense none the less. It's the absolute "none" which kills his point.

Modern comedy is almost entirely unwatchable now. For starters it seems less on merit than in the past, particularly on UK tv. It's almost entirely left leaning now too.

If you want to see a lack of imagination, look no further than the poster boy of comedy in the UK in 2017, Mr Russell Howard. His show has been marketed as the antidote to the mad world we (to him at least) live in....Trump, Brexit....grrr the madness right guys? Every joke is the standard "isn't Trump a c***? Isn't Brexit stupid? Boris Johnson, what an embarrassment." There'll be the standard joke about Ryanair for good measure too. Every joke can be seen from a mile away.

I had the misfortune to catch some of his schtick and it's just painful. Every section has a political slant, mostly unchallenged garbage, and then he mixes this in with an interview (where he suddenly loses his London accent and) with some lefty type opposite him in the most unchallenged line of questioning ever.

He's one example, but it's an example that's cloned everywhere. Watch any comedy panel show and it's the same thing. It's like the late night talk shows in the US. Trevor Noah, Colbert, Corden, Myers, Fallon, Kimmel......not only do they all share the same views, they all say pretty much the same jokes! Ireland is no different, anywhere there is some sort of opening monologue it will include the above mentioned dull joke.

The argument about the validity of their political views is neither here nor there, the lack of imagination is off the scale! It's as if we are meant to forget we've been hearing this material ad nauseum for well over a year now.

Maybe Linehan should watch/read some of the content of Gavin McInnes, Tucker Carlson, Mark Steyn. All of these guys are formidable people with conservative views. They also include a lot of humour in their work. Norm Macdonald is one of the funniest comedians in the world, he generally leaves his political views out of his material. Where he does include politics he uses it in more of a slapstick fashion. When you hear his personal views on many things though you can see how conservative he is. This is a common theme with conservatives in the arts. When it comes to sharing political views, a left leaning individual can do as much as they want with almost zero downside for their career, quite the opposite in fact. It's one of the main reasons why you see a lot of stand-ups include political material in their act these days. The exact opposite is true when it comes to conservatives. It's be apolitical onstage or you'll be in the gulag.

Actually if there's one thing to me which separates the conservatives from the lefties is that I see a lot more humour from conservatives. The left has become hellbent on cynicism, witchhunts and hysteria over non-issues. That said, I wouldn't accuse somebody as being unimaginative purely on the basis of their political views.

As for Linehan, if you're a fan of his work and want to preserve a favourable view of him, you'd be doing well to give his social media presence a total swerve. He's petty, childish, anti-debate and there's a strong hint of a bully about him. It's a real shame. There's a good example of this in one of his responses to a tweet early on after the tweet linked in the original post to this thread.

Like Stephen Fry, Linehan is someone whom I used to admire but who has turned into an extremely unpleasant individual.

I agree very much - same with satirical "news" pages like The Daily Mash, NewsThump and The Poke. "The Tories are evil, the Tories are evil" - I honestly don't think they know what they're talking about.

I find McInnes too aggressive and a bit too polarising at times (not that I never agree with him) but I must check out the others.

timthumbni

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

Ben Elton right wing? That's up there with someone saying recently in another thread that the Indo is Marxist.

That was my own effort at being funny. Who says sarcasm is dead......

_Dara_

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

That’s news to me. Can you point to a few examples of prominent left-wingers who believe prostitution should be criminalised? To give credence to the above generalisation, you’ll need a good few names. Not one or two.

ToddyDoody

Who are these right wing people of which you speak?

Isn't D. Trump not funny?

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

Skylinehead wrote: »

Mod: Get back on topic, not the bloody Clintons for the billionth time. That goes for everyone.

I agree. But can boards.ie have the same policy for ramming a Donald Trump 'joke' into every single thread?

It's a boring cringe-fest at this stage.

Edit: See above post as an example.

ToddyDoody

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

I agree. But can boards.ie have the same policy for ramming a Donald Trump 'joke' into every single thread?

It's a boring cringe-fest at this stage.

Edit: See above post as an example.

I thought I was being original.

Perhaps I'm out of touch.

Also, thank you. Your positive attitude is refreshing.

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

ToddyDoody wrote: »

I thought I was being original.

Perhaps I'm out of touch.

Also, thank you. Your positive attitude is refreshing.

Is that you, Graham?

Ralf and Florian

Interesting read.

https://richardhcooper.blogspot.ie/2012/05/look-at-conduct-of-graham-linehan-and.html

Hotblack Desiato

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

Kenny Everett made no secret of his support for Thatcher and he was in my opinion anyway, very funny. He didn't fit the stereotype of a right winger tbh being openly gay and having a very irreverent sense of humour.

Kenny Everett appeared on stage at a Tory party conference. But he was also sacked by the BBC for telling a joke on live radio which called Thatcher a cnut.

Austria!

In some circles it's discussed frequently how comedians are usually left wing (they are), and how that's because of greater empathy or imagination among liberals, or about comedy working better when punching up instead of punching down. It's actually none of that though.

If you want to make it in comedy you have to move to a city. If you move to a city you become liberal.

Also, the reason there are more men doing stand up is mainly because stand up requires a lot of travelling alone to gigs often late at night and women don't like that.

ToddyDoody

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

Is that you, Graham?

https://www.ok.co.uk/celebrity-feature/999767/blind-date-remember-cilla-black-voiceover-host-our-graham-skidmore

...and I'm sure Cilla never groped anyone.

Hotblack Desiato

Austria! wrote: »

If you move to a city you become liberal.

LOL

Also, the reason there are more men doing stand up is mainly because stand up requires a lot of travelling alone to gigs often late at night and women don't like that.

Doesn't seem to bother female solo singers.

flaneur

The best comedians are the people who can poke fun at the emperor and see he or she is not wearing any clothes.

If the establishment is right leaning, they’ll probably seem left wing.

The problem is there’s been a redefinition of “left wing” as anything that isn’t the US Republican Party or the Tories.

You can be a left wing conservative and I think there are plenty of these showing up in the politically correct, wanting to shut down anything that might offend anyone ever type brigade. Those people are just modern say Mary Whitehouse conservatives.

What you want in a comedian is someone who can stand outside the herd and see it for what it is. They’re mostly free thinking liberals, often left leaning but it’s more about their freedom from dogma and ability to be irreverent that makes them funny.

I think we really need to be careful of this use of the word “liberal” to describe what are just modern social conservatives who don't like anyone being able to critique anything. They’re neither liberal nor left.
They’re just conservatives. All this attempting to create safe spaces in universities and shutting down debate is conservative and very deeply so. It has nothing to do with liberal values at all.

Also the US Republicans aren’t “liberals”, other than about economics. They’re massively conservative and big state on all sorts of social issues where they think they know best and they’re very happy to spend big on anything military or law and order focused.

There’s a lot of confusion with these labels and it’s becoming worse.

Ralf and Florian

Austria! wrote: »

In some circles it's discussed frequently how comedians are usually left wing (they are), and how that's because of greater empathy or imagination among liberals, or about comedy working better when punching up instead of punching down. It's actually none of that though.

If you want to make it in comedy you have to move to a city. If you move to a city you become liberal.

Also, the reason there are more men doing stand up is mainly because stand up requires a lot of travelling alone to gigs often late at night and women don't like that.

Unless you're a muslim immigrant.

DickSwiveller

flaneur wrote: »

The best comedians are the people who can poke fun at the emperor and see he or she is not wearing any clothes.

If the establishment is right leaning, they’ll probably seem left wing.

The problem is there’s been a redefinition of “left wing” as anything that isn’t the US Republican Party or the Tories.

You can be a left wing conservative and I think there are plenty of these showing up in the politically correct, wanting to shut down anything that might offend anyone ever type brigade. Those people are just modern say Mary Whitehouse conservatives.

What you want in a comedian is someone who can stand outside the herd and see it for what it is. They’re mostly free thinking liberals, often left leaning but it’s more about their freedom from dogma and ability to be irreverent that makes them funny.

I think we really need to be careful of this use of the word “liberal” to describe what are just modern social conservatives who don't like anyone being able to critique anything. They’re neither liberal nor left.
They’re just conservatives. All this attempting to create safe spaces in universities and shutting down debate is conservative and very deeply so. It has nothing to do with liberal values at all.

Also the US Republicans aren’t “liberals”, other than about economics. They’re massively conservative and big state on all sorts of social issues where they think they know best and they’re very happy to spend big on anything military or law and order focused.

There’s a lot of confusion with these labels and it’s becoming worse.

It's you who is completely confused. Do you know anything about conservatism, or are you just regurgitating the usual banal cliches? Classical conservatives like Edmund Burke were basically classical liberals who stood up for individual liberty above all. The religious extremists who want to ban everything are not conservatives in the traditional sense. Just as the pc mob don't represent traditional liberal values, they are almost certainly not conservatives.

Also, people like Raegan, Bush etc couldn't be further from conservatism. They basically believed in state power, something genuine conservatives despise.

You're right that nobody understands the different labels.

flaneur

DickSwiveller wrote: »

It's you who is completely confused. Do you know anything about conservatism, or are you just regurgitating the usual banal cliches? Classical conservatives like Edmund Burke were basically classical liberals who stood up for individual liberty above all. The religious extremists who want to ban everything are not conservatives in the traditional sense. Just as the pc mob don't represent traditional liberal values, they are almost certainly not conservatives.

Also, people like Raegan, Bush etc couldn't be further from conservatism. They basically believed in state power, something genuine conservatives despise.

You're right that nobody understands the different labels.

Did you actually read my post ?!?

There are two parallel meanings of the word conservative. In an English language normal usage meaning - traditionalist, opposed to change, pro orthodoxy etc etc

In a political context it can be defined in the context of pro business economic liberal combined with social conservatism and that is a definition that is really rather vague as conservative parties can vary from quite pro individual liberty to being dogmatically conservative on a range of social values and adopt very traditionalist and often religiously inspired values. The British Conservative Party has aspects of both philosophies and alternated and changed a lot over the years, depending on who was on the front bench and the public mood at the time.

I didn’t mention any political definition or cite Edmund Bourke’s philosophies and theories at all.

What I’m saying is that the current definition of “liberal” in present day US media parlance is often very socially conservative and pro censorship and policing of freedom of expression. Also left wing and liberal are being used interchangeably and there’s no notion of what they mean other than “them over there!”

You can’t call someone calling for the shut down of freedom of speech or who takes offense at absolutely everything ‘a liberal.’ They’re just social conservatives with a different orthodoxy.

While the current definition of conservative is more akin to right wing traditionalist, nationalist.

The labels are redefined all the time and are far from set in stone based on one academic reference.

Comedians and satirists need to be able to stand outside the dogma of any political philosophy and see things for what they are. A good comedian is quite capable of sending up any political establishment.

Lenihan’s sending up of the Catholic Church and to an extent late 20th century Irish political and social orthodoxy was pure genius. He called it out for what it is, without being so offensive as to cause massive upset. It probably was perfectly timed as the church was losing influence anyway, but it really did make a very powerful and often mysterious institution suddenly seem a lot more human and flawed.

That’s great comedy and I think it did bring about a little bit of social change here, even if we are unlikely to give it any credit for doing so.

I don’t agree with Lenihan in the sense that most good comedians, including him, can see right through any dogma be it dressed as right or left.

_Dara_

Linehan is kinda annoying. I used to follow him on Twitter but then got sick of him so unfollowed him. Love Ted and Black Books though, don’t really care about the real-life personalities of comedians and comedy writers so long as they are able to make me laugh. If they’re law-abiding, fine by me.

A Little Pony

Samaris wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Fantastic post. Sick of seeing it on British TV. It's about time it was challenged and opposite opinion to leftist views exist on TV.

That's one issue, right there. It's not that you want to see conservative opinions, just "the opposite to leftist". Left = bad. Right may not have to equal correct or original, just...the opposite of left. Where does that take anyone, apart from the trenches of wingnut opinion?

I doubt your view is overwhelming; there are certainly healthier outlooks on it, but the push for "anything, as long as the liberals are annoyed" just ain't healthy, imo.

Btw, I may not agree with everything the poster you responded to said, but it was well-considered and detailed.

It's too one sided, it alienates people from a conservative point of view. I want to see more conservatives on TV.

_Dara_

Samaris wrote: »

Times change and so do opinions. There has been a massive swing towards not mistreating and side-lining homosexual people (and even recognising that lesbians are real and not a conspiracy theory!)in the last ten to fifteen years. The "marriage means X" argument is one I'm dubious on, but I could accept people being unable to seperate it from the Christian view of it, even though I disagree with them.

I have little problem with people, including people in power, changing their minds over a long period of time. I consider it a very different thing to running on a platform of X and then doing Y without even the attempt of X (compromise and something no-one loves but everyone can live with is also fair enough.)

Agreed. I think it’s very possible to change your mind about a previously strongly-held belief. It shows a measured and curious mind to me as well as humility and a lack of obduracy. All good things. It’s not hypocritical. Hypocrisy is, as you say, saying one thing and doing another concurrently.

DickSwiveller

flaneur wrote: »

Did you actually read my post ?!?

There are two parallel meanings of the word conservative. In an English language normal usage meaning - traditionalist, opposed to change, pro orthodoxy etc etc

In a political context it can be defined in the context of pro business economic liberal combined with social conservatism and that is a definition that is really rather vague as conservative parties can vary from quite pro individual liberty to being dogmatically conservative on a range of social values and adopt very traditionalist and often religiously inspired values. The British Conservative Party has aspects of both philosophies and alternated and changed a lot over the years, depending on who was on the front bench and the public mood at the time.

I didn’t mention any political definition or cite Edmund Bourke’s philosophies and theories at all.

What I’m saying is that the current definition of “liberal” in present day US media parlance is often very socially conservative and pro censorship and policing of freedom of expression. Also left wing and liberal are being used interchangeably and there’s no notion of what they mean other than “them over there!”

You can’t call someone calling for the shut down of freedom of speech or who takes offense at absolutely everything ‘a liberal.’ They’re just social conservatives with a different orthodoxy.

While the current definition of conservative is more akin to right wing traditionalist, nationalist.

The labels are redefined all the time and are far from set in stone based on one academic reference.

Comedians and satirists need to be able to stand outside the dogma of any political philosophy and see things for what they are. A good comedian is quite capable of sending up any political establishment.

Lenihan’s sending up of the Catholic Church and to an extent late 20th century Irish political and social orthodoxy was pure genius. He called it out for what it is, without being so offensive as to cause massive upset. It probably was perfectly timed as the church was losing influence anyway, but it really did make a very powerful and often mysterious institution suddenly seem a lot more human and flawed.

That’s great comedy and I think it did bring about a little bit of social change here, even if we are unlikely to give it any credit for doing so.

I don’t agree with Lenihan in the sense that most good comedians, including him, can see right through any dogma be it dressed as right or left.

Very good post. I still don't understand why you refer to modern so-called liberals as conservative. I think a more fitting description for some of them would be religious extremists. Their religion is a secular religion, like Stalinism. Its key tenents are equality/diversity/political correctness at any cost, and they will ensure that those who don't agree with them are sidelined and smeared.

_Dara_

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Lenihan is longer funny and wasn't been for a while, he's at that stage where satire is replaced by genuine resentment. It seems to be a condition that's common among Irish entertainers in the UK media.

It’s just a lot of comedians in general as they get older. Linehan was 26 when Ted debuted. Middle age is often an enemy of comedy. Vim and vigour damps down a bit.

Dyr

Linehan reminds me of every sniggering little drip I knew growing up, the kind who always looked like he expecting the dig he deserved to land at any moment

flaneur

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Very good post. I still don't understand why you refer to modern so-called liberals as conservative. I think a more fitting description for some of them would be religious extremists. Their religion is a secular religion, like Stalinism. Its key tenents are equality/diversity/political correctness at any cost, and they will ensure that those who don't agree with them are sidelined and smeared.

Because it isn’t anything like stalanism. Nor is their “religion” secularism. In many cases they’re not even secular.

Secularists couldn’t give a hoot what your religion is, as long as the state isn’t taking sides and imposing any religion on anyone.

There’s an element of “offend nobody. Ban all things offensive” in some politically correct philosophies. It’s being erroneously called liberalism. It’s actually just social conservatism of a different type.

If you end up with a society where views aren’t challenged, ideas aren’t put out there and things are beyond discussion, it’s anything but liberal.

I would consider some of what’s happening now as just a cool version of Mary Whitehouse, a woman who spent her life complaining about all things “offensive” on television in the 80s.

20Cent

He's not really a comedian though he writes comedy. It's not his job to amuse us all the time like a court jester. Quite like him. No nonsense and straight talking.



Anyone find a funny right winger yet?

server down

20Cent wrote: »

He's not really a comedian though he writes comedy. It's not his job to amuse us all the time like a court jester. Quite like him. No nonsense and straight talking.



Anyone find a funny right winger yet?

I can think of plenty of non politically correct comedians - from Larry David, to Seinfeld, to Chris Rock.

Since it’s impossible for this thread to define the right wing (a poster just called politically correct beliefs conservative) I doubt we are going to find a solution.

Certainly I can’t think of any very religious conservative comedians.

DickSwiveller

20Cent wrote: »

He's not really a comedian though he writes comedy. It's not his job to amuse us all the time like a court jester. Quite like him. No nonsense and straight talking.



Anyone find a funny right winger yet?

By no nonsense and straight talking you mean an intolerant fanatic?

20Cent

DickSwiveller wrote: »

By no nonsense and straight talking you mean an intolerant fanatic?

Intolerant fanatic of what?