Compulsory HCAP - Cancelled

ayagerard

ayagerard wrote: »

sent off an email to minister madagans office last evening asking her views on the above highlighted points
i asked for and
received an acknowledgement email stating that
( we will be in touch with you again shortly )

so we will have to wait and see what comes of it , cant do any harm

has any one received any thing back yet from the department on any of the points highlighted , or are they waiting for us mellow and forget , patience and public services seem to be all one sided

Cass

Nothing yet. Will update if i get anything. Although some i've written to i'm not expecting a response, but they're local so i wrote to them regardless.

ayagerard

ayagerard wrote: »

ayagerard wrote: »

sent off an email to minister madagans office last evening asking her views on the above highlighted points
i asked for and
received an acknowledgement email stating that
( we will be in touch with you again shortly )

so we will have to wait and see what comes of it , cant do any harm

has any one received any thing back yet from the department on any of the points highlighted , or are they waiting for us mellow and forget , patience and public services seem to be all one sided

5 weeks after sending off my initial email letter i have still not heard back from the minister wouldn't you think that she would have had five minutes to be polite as she is a politician and answer the couple of questions asked off her or is she hoping that we all forget about it ,has any one received any thing back about it at this point , they will all be off this week end and most of next week will be gone before they start if they will be home from abroad wouldn't you have to wonder what are they payed for, 120 odd days a year????????????

cavan shooter

A friend of mine traveled from down Limerick direction to do the Deer course that Countrysports Ireland were pushing. He is disgusted, pile of Shiite and doesn't cover you for the deer license. Not best please, feels he should have went for the HCAP..

solarwinds

cavan shooter wrote: »

A friend of mine traveled from down Limerick direction to do the Deer course that Countrysports Ireland were pushing. He is disgusted, pile of Shiite and doesn't cover you for the deer license. Not best please, feels he should have went for the HCAP..

How much lighter of pocket was he for the privelage.

cavan shooter

solarwinds wrote: »

How much lighter of pocket was he for the privelage.

€100 I think, plus travel. I warned him watch the snakeoil merchants....there is no need to do the course till 2020.

solarwinds

And a day of work if he's employed.

Cass

cavan shooter wrote: »

A friend of mine traveled from down Limerick direction to do the Deer course that Countrysports Ireland were pushing. He is disgusted, pile of Shiite and doesn't cover you for the deer license. Not best please, feels he should have went for the HCAP..

This was always going to happen.

New courses will start to appear left right and centre. Thing is some may actually be good but the ratio of dung to good will b heavily in favour of the former i'd imagine.

Cass

cavan shooter wrote: »

€100 I think, plus travel. I warned him watch the snakeoil merchants....there is no need to do the course till 2020.

I though this important enough to warrant a new post rather than it being ignored as part of a multiple response.

THERE WILL BE NO COMPULSORY COURSE IN 2020.

The Minister's office/statement said that a course of some kind will be considered by 2020, but only for those seeking first time licenses. From her statement:

In that regard the Minister is satisfied that the most appropriate course of action is to consider the introduction of an appropriate training and certification process for first time applicants for deer hunting licences to commence from a date which will be determined in due course but certainly no later than 2020.

So if a course is introduced, and that is IF, then it will apply to only those seeking their first license and not to those that have done courses or held a deer license for the previous years (IOW prior experience will count, like with competence certification)

Kat1170

cavan shooter wrote: »

A friend of mine traveled from down Limerick direction to do the Deer course that Countrysports Ireland were pushing. He is disgusted, pile of Shiite and doesn't cover you for the deer license. Not best please, feels he should have went for the HCAP..

He wouldn't be any happier if he did the HCAP and he'd be even more out of pocket.

Walter Mittys Brother

I see on facebook they are now running a fox version. What next? A rabbit one?

My mother always said "a fool and his money are easily parted".

Hopefully they're not setting themselves up for future mandatory courses on same

cavan shooter

Of course they will. But before then they like many others will feed on the fear of the ordinary shooter. I've seen it for to many years now as soon as there is something of concern to shooters some people will jump on the bandwagon of people's fear and harvest money from them.

I had this argument years ago and was dismissed as talking ****e. People make money on other people's fears. Fear of not being able to shoot deer, fear of losing my particular sporting firearm, someone always is there to take money of you.

Cass said it, It's not needed till 2020 and the so called Grandfather's will hopefully come into play. I have no problem with anyone doing a training course but please Stop feeding the monster.

Grizzly 45

Cass said it, It's not needed till 2020 and the so called Grandfather's will hopefully come into play.

Let's not hope, let's make sure that it happens!! We have 3years to make sure that, for once, we the shooters have a proper say in this, and not let others decide our fate.

ayagerard

cavan shooter wrote: »

A friend of mine traveled from down Limerick direction to do the Deer course that Countrysports Ireland were pushing. He is disgusted, pile of Shiite and doesn't cover you for the deer license. Not best please, feels he should have went for the HCAP..

i have no problem with any one doing these courses it just shows the persons interest in the subject in hand be it shooting , gardening, or knitting at this stage i don't mind what it is my problem is with relevance, cost, and necessity ,
relevance the last time i done a safe pass refresher course which is mandatory
in this country the chap in question gave a seminar in scaffolding that went on for 2 hours and you would think we were going for a diploma or certification, the sad part was no one in the room was working at heights,this was highlighted after tea , then he returned to the text and ground hog day 101 ,i and 15 more learned nothing that day ,i must have 6 off these passes done at a 100 a pop , but i am obliged to have to inter a work site , again these are a money making racket as the sams questions asked since the start and if you go abroad it is not recognized, cost 1500 a day to renew a card rent a room and boil a kettle, a nice earner ???? ( rant over )

all the courses that are there at the moment are for one purpose to collect money for there agencies with little regard for training or knowledge, read the text ,tick the box but don't ask a question as the answer will be well look in to it
a proper course ie training , with deer in mind , would consist of several modules , safety , management , diseases , carkas prep , anatomy , butchery,
necessity is there a need for these courses if you are only shooting for the pot i think not i think this a form of dictatorship to justify the penal costs of these courses ,look at eastern countries start with france spain portugal. with hanging meat, on the side of the street salami, lamb, now look at what we are dealing with here, board bia , mislabeling , horse meat , being honest i don't think the flys are a big problem when you are faced with the likes of the beef tribunal
with that said any one selling hanging deer to a dealer should have to have a recognised course of some kind by some independent authority , it cant be run by any of these gob****es looking to line there pockets , should be done on line in modules and if the man with one for the pot wants to do the course fair enough , but if he doesn't then he shouldn't be criminalised if he doesn't ,if he has been capable, responsible, and doing this for the last melinia , who has the rite to impose there will on him to profit from him, bulling comes to mind ,
i actually feel sorry for this chap and many more like him , being sold these courses not fit for purpose and there should be some consumer law to sort these twats out, every turn of the road now there is some one with there hand out ready to take your money white collar crime is robbery of a different kind

steyrman

cavan shooter wrote: »

A friend of mine traveled from down Limerick direction to do the Deer course that Countrysports Ireland were pushing. He is disgusted, pile of Shiite and doesn't cover you for the deer license. Not best please, feels he should have went for the HCAP..

What was his reason for doing it in the first place he must have knowing this before he went it’s nothing to do with h-cap countrysport Ireland have no input in h-cap it’s a separate money spinner I did read it was pre- h-cap to get you ready it might suit the lads starting not out but anyone who has being stalking a long time would run a mile from it

cavan shooter

steyrman wrote: »

cavan shooter wrote: »

A friend of mine traveled from down Limerick direction to do the Deer course that Countrysports Ireland were pushing. He is disgusted, pile of Shiite and doesn't cover you for the deer license. Not best please, feels he should have went for the HCAP..

What was his reason for doing it in the first place he must have knowing this before he went it’s nothing to do with h-cap countrysport Ireland have no input in h-cap it’s a separate money spinner I did read it was pre- h-cap to get you ready it might suit the lads starting not out but anyone who has being stalking a long time would run a mile from it

He thought it would get him over the hurdle for the training that's been touted as compulsory.

gunny123

You forgot the car nct, another money making racket hidden behind the health and safety excuse. But thats what is going to happen with the shooting sports if we let it.

steyrman

cavan shooter wrote: »

He thought it would get him over the hurdle for the training that's been touted as compulsory.

That’s fair enough it’s good to see so much interest in this people will look to make money at the drop of a hat at anything scaremongering comes into play hopefully the minister will set it in stone one way or the other but the h-cap is a a joke in every shape and form I’m stalking over 30 years shot as many as most of I make a mistake I know how and why a piece of paper is no replacement for experience. But that brings another can of worms for a level 2 of one of them lads bringing you out stalking another money making racket

cavan shooter

gunny123 wrote: »

You forgot the car nct, another money making racket hidden behind the health and safety excuse. But thats what is going to happen with the shooting sports if we let it.

I think that training that is a benefit is well worth doing. I really have a problem with training being touted as something which it clearly is not.

ayagerard

gunny123 wrote: »

You forgot the car nct, another money making racket hidden behind the health and safety excuse. But thats what is going to happen with the shooting sports if we let it.

you could spoil a perfectly good day with them and the nct ain't wort **** once you drive out of the shead feeling happy that all is well , you wish ,again not a problem a company not registered in ireland ( isle of man ) not accountable here, what certifications have the lads testing the cars are they qualified mechanics may be just not willing to go it alone or mainstream a judge will ask if current cert is available but problems will be overruled by a registered mechanic or psv officer ,insurance could be a problem without a cert but has no bearing on the quote
if europe can put all these great minds together in reach to rid us of all the microproducts that are doing all the harm wouldn't it be time better spent standardisering packaging and products where's by origin means origin off product not the packaging .product means what is in the package bones interns salt and all , they call it processing or adding value what it is a byproduct before the mincer so how could it be chicken after or fish if you cant see its eye you cant tel if it is fresh and i wont be having it on an island surrounded by water we export 80% of the fish caught here and import 60% of what we eat processed a cod fish finger might have 60% cod if you are lucky but what is the other 40% ill let you think about that ,
there is far too much of a grey area here very little published facts the ministers statement has not bee published in any paper and sow the hcap deer alliance countrysports ireland and every other crap provider can say you will need this course to shoot deer in ireland from 1-1-2018 it will be compulsory down the road we will even put up the price and screw you ,
we have no representation no magazine and no support the nrgc is the nearest pilliar to hide behind as there answer is their course what was needed was a straight forward no to the changes with out a discussion with their members and a vote on it what happened was sorrowful with people absent from meetings, kept quite,voted for without the consent , a wink and a nod approach and look at all the ground we have lost on this , every thing we read has a negative to our sport when was the last positive thing that you read , this negativity is what they are feeding on like wolves vultures one here two there , if we are united they haven't a prayer , tell every one you know there courses wont be accepted down the road if indeed a course will be come compulsory who knows keep yer money lads and stop financing the bottom feeders , if there is a course you want to do as all the questions first to be sure you are happy with it

Grizzly 45

NCT...How good. They let my previous jeep pass 6times[Jap /UK import] before they discovered the chassis and frame serial numbers didn't match, and that it was a cannibal. When I bought it,a track rod end needed a replacement for the NCT.The utter K...ker "Auther Daley" dealer:mad: I bought it off, went and replaced it with a 2nd hand unit from a SWB, which doesn't fit correctly and a wipe of a rag, and the NCT passed it.The end result, because of its short thread, the castle nut is under pressure and vibrates, so much it sheared the safety pin off and walked off the bolt, while I was driving.It collapsed the front wishbone and steering when I went over a speed ramp at 20 km.If that had happened on a motorway at speed it could have been fatal or a complete wipeout of the truck. That it was a worn and incorrect part should have been spotted by the inspection.So pardon me if I have ZERO faith in the NCT.

So, yes,I wouldn't expect anything else from these courses and refresher training here except a money spinner for the unscrupulous.Reading the IDMF plans they [want us paying for of course] things like an app that allows us to enter in GPS co-ords where we shot deer, doing their work for them..And deer tags, which won't do damn all to stop poaching, and won't stay at a "reasonable" price for longer than a season. It's time we say to both our own and the govt,quit screwing us any further.We are not money cows to be milked for NGO vanity projects to keep white coated professors behind their desks.Also, it is time probably and unfortunately, yet again to start another organisation that represents the majority of non HCRAP deer hunters in Ireland.

HCAP is a private,and probably now illegal deal between Coilte,the dept and vested intrests to shoot in state forestry. I doesnt repersent my views and the majority of deer hunters I know.So who represents us at the table?No one by the looks of things.Maybe by post 2020 we should have some competition to IDS/HCAP?

Cass

I see 57 people are due to take their range test on the 24th of this month, according to the deer alliance site. 24 of them are people who never done their test last year and deferred it, so that means 33 people "signed up" this year. It also says 24 are due to sit their MCQ on the 5th May.

Having been at pretty much every test for the last 9 years and allowing for the previous drop off it still shows a dramatic drop from last year. 8-9 years ago there would be three tests with an average of 140 per test (some had over 160). Over the last couple of years that number is closer to 90 per test with two tests per year.

The first test of the year always had the highest number of candidates but it seems with only 33 new candidates that trend is dropping off. Hopefully people are understanding that there is NO MANDATORY COURSE required and those 57 people are either shooting Coilte land where it is still a requirement or believe that it may help them in some fashion. I'd hate to think people are still being fed the impression that such a course is a legal requirement.

I said that because i emailed them [deer alliance] to inform them that they still had this notice up on their website, the fact it's wrong, and even though the response i got was "sorry, its a mistake and we'll have it taken down" it's still up on their website.

cavan shooter

One wonders if people are actually getting the message. I went for a pint last night and a deer stalker chap I know bet it down my throat that it was compulsory from June. To add insult to injury he said according to facebook, That you had to do a deer course and that Countysports Ireland are the lads to do the course with its only €100 and you don't need to do a range test to get the ticket also you can borrow a gun once it's a minimum 223.
I was going to argue but my better self decided not to as the pint woukd go soft and as the old saying goes "Never argue with afool, for he'll beat you down to his level then win on experience"

Cass

cavan shooter wrote: »

One wonders if people are actually getting the message. "

Slowly, too slow for my liking.

We only had a chap post a thread a few weeks back asking this very question [is it mandatory]. With the amount of people still believing it is, the fake stories on facebook and other social media, and with the false declaration of a course being mandatory still up on some websites its hard to people to believe otherwise.

All you can do is tell them its not, point them in the direction of the Minister's statement on the matter and hope they cop on.

garrettod

Cass wrote: »

....All you can do is tell them its not, point them in the direction of the Minister's statement on the matter and hope they cop on.

Would it be wrong to call upon the Minister's office to put the organisers right on the matter and have them request that the website is corrected ?

It wouldn't take a lot of effort for someone at the Minister's office to draft up a quick letter, but could be a small step in the right direction from a Minister who I doubt has ever stood in a field, not alone gone hunting.

Cass

I don't know if they would concern themselves but might do no harm. As i said above i contacted them and was assured it would be removed to avoid any confusion, and the fact it was still up was blamed on "computer error".

So i'll lash off a draft of e-mails and see if anything can be done about it.

wirehairmax

Deer Alliance no longer have the monopoly in Coillte, as of last week Country Sports Ireland are recognized as being able to provide a course which satisfies their requirements for hunter competency training.

solarwinds

wirehairmax wrote: »

Deer Alliance no longer have the monopoly in Coillte, as of last week Country Sports Ireland are recognized as being able to provide a course which satisfies their requirements for hunter competency training.

Makes sense now, this is why they are cozying up to the farmers they no longer have the monopoly on coillte. They will now try and get into bed with the IFA.

Walter Mittys Brother

solarwinds wrote: »

Makes sense now, this is why they are cozying up to the farmers they no longer have the monopoly on coillte. They will now try and get into bed with the IFA.

Oh no ! won't be long so until we're doing courses to shoot vermin & game as they'll convince the farmers shooters need to have them done to be on their land. Wait, CSI are already running a vermin one :eek:

cavan shooter

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

solarwinds wrote: »

Makes sense now, this is why they are cozying up to the farmers they no longer have the monopoly on coillte. They will now try and get into bed with the IFA.

Oh no ! won't be long so until we're doing courses to shoot vermin & game as they'll convince the farmers shooters need to have them done to be on their land. Wait, CSI are already running a vermin one :eek:

Am I the only one annoyed at the commercialisation of our sport.