~ Pre-Clearance and PassportControl queries ~

coylemj

bob50 wrote: »

I have never understood why Ryanair requires a valid passort for travel between Ireland and the Uk

It's to stop people from giving a ticket they can't use to a friend. The rule predates 9/11 and has been in place for years, they don't trust their staff to accept any other form of id. It has nothing to do with security.

A lot of the forms of identification that Aer Lingus accepts for UK travel can be easily forged, especially a student card or workplace id.

delricyo

It's all well and good when the airlines say that you only need a certain ID when travelling within the CTA. But you could still be required to prove nationality when you arrive at either side.
I was let in with a work ID before, but I'm not sure if I'd try it again.
I saw a Garda from Dublin airport being interviewed on the customs TV show and he explained that you need to prove nationality. Probably ok for the people with the Irish heads on them, and a work ID from an Irish company

George Sunsnow

coylemj wrote: »

Spain and Portugal both require the API data but it's nothing like the ESTA process which involves an advance application which can be refused at which point you must apply for a visa. And even getting the ESTA approval does not guarantee that you will be allowed enter the US, you still have to do a stand-up interview with an agent at the point of entry.

In contrast, Spain and Portugal are in the Schengen zone which means that millions of people enter those countries from all over Europe (excl. UK & Ireland) every year with no identity check at all. And given that travellers from Ireland and the UK have to show their passports on arrival, it makes you wonder why they require the API data.

Schengen is meant to be a mirror of internal USA travel
People with expired visa’s can still travel freely inside the schengen zone unless caught ,the same as the USA
Iirc Spain started requiring API after the Madrid train explosions atrocity
It’s to control terrorism
The very fact that information is used that way via booking means it can be easily used to assess visa correctness too which in fact it was to the states prior to esta invention
That’s why I’m calling API esta lite,it is a possible mechanism to refuse boarding to those minus the correct visa

coylemj

George Sunsnow wrote: »

Iirc Spain started requiring API after the Madrid train explosions atrocity
It’s to control terrorism

So they keep an eye on the Paddies and Brits, log their passport details and dates of birth while at the same time they have an open border with the rest of Europe? If they really wanted to 'control terrorism', they should have pulled out of Schengen. AFAIK all of the recent terrorist attacks in mainland Europe have been carried out by people who have moved around within the Schengen zone.

George Sunsnow wrote: »

The very fact that information is used that way via booking means it can be easily used to assess visa correctness too which in fact it was to the states prior to esta invention
That’s why I’m calling API esta lite,it is a possible mechanism to refuse boarding to those minus the correct visa

I don't know what you mean by 'visa correctness'. Anyone holding an Irish or UK Passport has the right as EU citizens to enter Spain and Portugal without a visa.

JCX BXC

Passport numbers don't even have to be correct, I accidentally entered two numbers the same on my last trip and it wasn't noticed.

George Sunsnow

coylemj wrote: »

So they keep an eye on the Paddies and Brits, log their passport details and dates of birth while at the same time they have an open border with the rest of Europe? If they really wanted to 'control terrorism', they should have pulled out of Schengen. AFAIK all of the recent terrorist attacks in mainland Europe have been carried out by people who have moved around within the Schengen zone.

I think my point is they can use the information ,not that their data base of potential trouble makers is good
It would be very easy to cross reference api with visa rules

I don't know what you mean by 'visa correctness'. Anyone holding an Irish or UK Passport has the right as EU citizens to enter Spain and Portugal without a visa.

I mean if pax don’t have the correct visa to enter the U.K. from an ROI airport then this can be flagged via API as it had been done to the states for decades before esta

The NI border is their problem,a big one

Lau2976

Just as update, boarding for my 9 am flight opened at 6, preclearance was called at 6.30 but didn't open until 7

coylemj

Lau2976 wrote: »

Just as update, boarding for my 9 am flight opened at 6, preclearance was called at 6.30 but didn't open until 7

How do you know that the flight was open for boarding at 6 a.m. if you hadn't made it past US pre-clearance, was there an announcement to go to the gate?

Can't see why anyone would board a plane three hours before scheduled departure, or why an airline would staff the plane and the gate that early. If the flight status on the information screens was 'boarding' that usually doesn't mean anything if there's more than an hour to departure.

Locker10a

coylemj wrote: »

Lau2976 wrote: »

Just as update, boarding for my 9 am flight opened at 6, preclearance was called at 6.30 but didn't open until 7

How do you know that the flight was open for boarding at 6 a.m. if you hadn't made it past US pre-clearance, was there an announcement to go to the gate?


Can't see why anyone would board a plane three hours before scheduled departure, or why an airline would staff the plane and the gate that early. If the flight status on the information screens was 'boarding' that usually doesn't mean anything if there's more than an hour to departure.

I presume they mean the screen said "go to gate" at this time incorporating the time it takes to pass pre clearance, and then board 200+ people onto the aircraft

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Jacovs

Probably did mean check in, 3 hours before departure is about standard for most transatlantic flights.
Also, most of the transatlantic aircraft havent even arrived into dub 3 hours before their scheduled departure, nevermind already boarding.

Lau2976

That's exactly what I meant. Sorry traveling the past few days has turned my brain to mush!

Ron75

Hi, I hope someone might be able to advise.
My mother-in-law got her schengen visa via a travel agent from the French embassy. The plan however was and is to use it to go to Spain or the Canaries for short holiday. The travel agent informed her that France must be the first country she visits.
I googled a bit but couldn't find any such condition. Has anyone heard of such rule?

coylemj

It makes sense that you have to first visit the country that gave you the visa, otherwise a rumour would go out that one or other countries were a soft touch for issuing visas and they would be flooded with applications.

Did she tell the travel agent that she intended to travel to Spain or why was the application sent to the French embassy?

Doltanian

The first entry must be made through the issuing country, so she should enter France first but could travel onto Spain and the Canary islands afterwards.

shinju

In the past, unless things changed it could be the first country of arrival or the country where spending the most time.

tedpan

Doltanian wrote:

The first entry must be made through the issuing country, so she should enter France first but could travel onto Spain and the Canary islands afterwards.

Correct, same as if you were from outside the EU and had a UK visa. You would be able to travel to the UK and Ireland, but must enter the UK first.

shinju

It could be either the first port of entry or the country where spending the most time. Preferably the latter.

If entering in Spain then she may be asked for proof of onward travel and accommodation etc for France.

I wonder how the French embassy issued the visa without proof of travel to France.

To avoid hassle, book a multi city ticket i.e. Fly in to France an return via Spain (with connection flight between) or vice versa

Otherwise, most people really do not want to go on holiday with their mother in law, so it would be a perfect excuse for cancellation me ��

mayo51

Hi guys. Have booked flights to America. I am unsure of what is needed to travel such as visas etc.
Could someone give me advice or a checklist on what I need?
Thanks guys!

mayo51

Hi guys. I recently booked a trip to America
Can anyone offer advice on what I need to travel such as visas etc
Thanks guys

coylemj

If you have an Irish passport and you are going for leisure (tourism) only and for 90 days or less, you need to apply for and obtain ESTA approval. It's a pre-screening exercise which you must do before you present yourself at a point of entry to the US, which includes the pre-clearance facilities in Dublin and Shannon.

It lasts two years or when your passport expires, whichever comes first. It covers multi-entry so you don't have to reapply after each trip. It costs USD 14, you pay with a credit card and you need to have your passport at hand to enter the details. If you know the name and address of the hotel you will be staying on your first night, have those details as well though you can add them later so if you have not yet booked a hotel, it's not a problem.

Here is the official website, do not attempt to use any other website as there are fake 'fronting' websites that will obtain the approval but which charge you a lot more than $14. You should get approval straight away, there is no need to print anything.

https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/

Ron75

Thanks everyone.
Plans have changed a bit and we're considering of going to my parents to Germany for Xmas. I therefore checked with the German embassy who advised that my MiL can travel freely between the schengen countries, but the officer at immigration / border control has the last word. It would definitely help if we could provide proof of booked holidays to France which we don't have nor plan to have.

So, there's no written rule you can rely on.

We might look at flying into Paris for a night and then flying over to Germany or just cancel as it's going to be very pricy and also lots of hassle with the 3 of us and a 2yo.

Or I give my wife a weekend off in Paris with her mum LOL

wandererz

Ron75 wrote: »

Thanks everyone.
Plans have changed a bit and we're considering of going to my parents to Germany for Xmas. I therefore checked with the German embassy who advised that my MiL can travel freely between the schengen countries, but the officer at immigration / border control has the last word. It would definitely help if we could provide proof of booked holidays to France which we don't have nor plan to have.

So, there's no written rule you can rely on.

We might look at flying into Paris for a night and then flying over to Germany or just cancel as it's going to be very pricy and also lots of hassle with the 3 of us and a 2yo.

Or I give my wife a weekend off in Paris with her mum LOL

These things can be very straightforward. However, it would help if you could provide decisive information. That way we can provide correct or relational information.

I have been through it all (or quite a bit).

For example, i was once thrown in jail overnight in Paris along with the rest of my Irish colleagues/friends.
The police took my glasses (so i could not see). They spoke in French (which i did not understand).

After that i did not get the next visa for France.

Nevertheless, i applied to Belgium & Netherlands & was approved and subsequently traveled to France in any event by means of some great train journeys!

Ron75

I like your example of the UK visa. It's basically like a micro schengen visa

Doltanian

Only certain nationalities can travel to Ireland on a U.K. Visa, the majority of non-EU passport holders would require both an Irish and U.K. Visa to visit both respective countries.

From wikitravel below.

Citizens of China and India who have a valid UK visit visa and endorsed with "BIVS" and who have cleared immigration in the United Kingdom can visit Ireland visa-free for up to 90 days (or until their current permission to enter/remain in the UK, whichever is shorter).

Citizens of Bahrain, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, China, India, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Montenegro, Oman, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, Thailand, Turkey, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, and Uzbekistan who have a valid UK 'C' visit visa for any purpose (except "Visitor in Transit" and "Visitor seeking to enter for the purpose of marriage or to enter a civil partnership") and who have cleared immigration in the United Kingdom can visit Ireland visa-free for up to 90 days (or until their current permission to enter/remain in the UK, whichever is shorter). This exemption also applies to nationals of Oman, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates who have entered the United Kingdom on foot of a C-visit Electronic Visa Waiver (EVW).

Ron75

Doltanian wrote: »

Only certain nationalities can travel to Ireland on a U.K. Visa, the majority of non-EU passport holders would require both an Irish and U.K. Visa to visit both respective countries.

From wikitravel below.

Citizens of China and India who have a valid UK visit visa and endorsed with "BIVS" and who have cleared immigration in the United Kingdom can visit Ireland visa-free for up to 90 days (or until their current permission to enter/remain in the UK, whichever is shorter).

Citizens of Bahrain, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, China, India, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Montenegro, Oman, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, Thailand, Turkey, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, and Uzbekistan who have a valid UK 'C' visit visa for any purpose (except "Visitor in Transit" and "Visitor seeking to enter for the purpose of marriage or to enter a civil partnership") and who have cleared immigration in the United Kingdom can visit Ireland visa-free for up to 90 days (or until their current permission to enter/remain in the UK, whichever is shorter). This exemption also applies to nationals of Oman, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates who have entered the United Kingdom on foot of a C-visit Electronic Visa Waiver (EVW).

I found the below on https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/british-irish-visa-scheme/british-irish-visa-scheme

"Indian and Chinese nationals can travel to Ireland and the UK using the following UK visas:

all standard visitor categories where the maximum period for a single visit is six months"

Seems there's some different information out there. In the end it's always up to the officer to decide if one is allowed or denied entry.

bigar

The answer the OP. A Schengen visa is valid for the whole territory so it does not matter where you enter. Look at Schengen as one single country not a collection of countries. I have travelled a lot with people who had a visa issued by one country but were never stopped when entering Schengen from another country.

martin6651

From what I'm reading this right do I need a visa to travel to Belgium i.e Brussels

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

martin6651

Thank you Fred