~ Pre-Clearance and PassportControl queries ~

CiniO

Ireland is not member of Schengen zone so that's why it needs passport control for people arriving from EU countries.
UK is exception as it has different arrangements with Ireland.
I don't know why they don't allow people flying from UK without passport control.


It's annoying allrigt f.e. when I arrive in Krakow on flight from Dublin I need to wait in long queue for passport control while I see other people who arrived from Spain, Germany, France etc. To be allowed right away without passport control

Yakuza

VG31 wrote: »

You can show photo ID other than a passport when entering Ireland from the UK.

Yep, flew to LHR with AL a while back, used driver's licence at both legs (but still had to queue with all the passport bearers.

Back in 2000, I flew over and back to/from EDI and if my memory hasn't failed me, we didn't have to go through passport control in DUB either. Of course, that was a different world, pre-9/11, Madrid, Paris, London terror attacks, shoe bombers, you could bring a lousy bottle of water with you as well as a decent bottle of shower gel etc etc..Ah nostalgia, it ain't what it used to be!

bfa1509

endacl wrote: »

Why do borders have border controls? Because borders?

I have no problem with borders. I do have a problem with poor, inefficient systems that make no effort to improve.

aujopimur wrote: »

Hopefully it will keep out undesirables.

You missed my line about how the non-EU citizens appear to pass through quicker than anyone else.

jimmycrackcorm

It's simply a case that DA doesn't have a separate facility and segregated gates for UK flights. It won't happen either whether brexit.

BoatMad

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's simply a case that DA doesn't have a separate facility and segregated gates for UK flights. It won't happen either whether brexit.

Mary Harney ended the ability to arrive in Dublin from the UK and not suffer checks. Remember you could exit the Pier A (?) with no checks

She signed the immigration control order, that requires all air passengers to present ID, this is not in violation of the CTA. The UK at present does not require permanent checks on CTA passengers

The second thing that happened was Europes Directives on ensuring that departing and arriving passengers dont mix ( as much as possible )

coylemj

BoatMad wrote: »

Mary Harney ended the ability to arrive in Dublin from the UK and not suffer checks. Remember you could exit the Pier A (?) with no checks

She signed the immigration control order, that requires all air passengers to present ID, this is not in violation of the CTA. The UK at present does not require permanent checks on CTA passengers

When she was minister for what?

BoatMad wrote: »

The second thing that happened was Europes Directives on ensuring that departing and arriving passengers dont mix ( as much as possible )

That should enhance the airport's ability to segregate UK passengers from others so they can bypass the passport queue, it is not the cause of the current situation.

They used to be able to route incoming passengers off UK flights straight through to the baggage hall but that stopped in part because Ryanair started to disembark passengers on the apron where they couldn't be kept separate from passengers arriving from other countries.

The general increase in passenger numbers over the years means that the airport simply isn't big enough to segregate incoming UK passengers from the rest. The terminals in Dublin airport are segregated purely by airline, not by destination so the current situation is going to continue, especially for as long as Ryanair is dumping thousands of incoming passengers onto the apron every day.

LXFlyer

As in the other discussion, the other problem is how arriving passengers from the UK that are not entitled to avail of the CTA provisions (in other words non-Irish & UK citizens) can be identified and checked were UK flights separated from the others.

coylemj

LXFlyer wrote: »

As in the other discussion, the other problem is how arriving passengers from the UK that are not entitled to avail of the CTA provisions (in other words non-Irish & UK citizens) can be identified and checked were UK flights separated from the others.

Very valid point but it's strange how it doesn't seem to be an issue for the authorities in the UK who happily allow virtually everyone off Irish flights to sail straight through arrivals. This despite the fact that if they're coming off an Aer Lingus flight, they may have shown nothing better than a bus pass when boarding.

LXFlyer

coylemj wrote: »

Very valid point but it's strange how it doesn't seem to be an issue for the authorities in the UK who happily allow virtually everyone off Irish flights to sail straight through arrivals. This despite the fact that if they're coming off an Aer Lingus flight, they may have shown nothing better than a bus pass when boarding.

That's ultimately an issue for the governments in both Ireland and the UK as to how they approach the management of the CTA. They have different approaches to it. The UK have spot checks, and I suspect will probably want stronger checks as part of Brexit.


Part of the issue is that the CTA is an "understanding" and isn't enshrined in common legislation - that may be something that can come out of the Brexit process.

George Sunsnow

No one coming into ROI can have entered here illegally meaning only a very tiny percentage traveling from here to the U.K. could (if at all even) be illegal entering there tbh

LXFlyer

George Sunsnow wrote: »

No one coming into ROI can have entered here illegally meaning only a very tiny percentage traveling from here to the U.K. could (if at all even) be illegal entering there tbh

In the context of overall arrivals into the UK, you're probably right - they would be much smaller in percentage terms than in the reverse direction.

Bear in mind that there are (with only a small exception) no common visas allowing entry to Ireland and the UK. People have to have separate visas to legally enter both countries.

George Sunsnow

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/British+Irish+Visa+Scheme

China and India

LXFlyer

George Sunsnow wrote: »

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/British+Irish+Visa+Scheme

China and India

That's the exception I referred to - that leaves a lot of other countries.

coylemj

George Sunsnow wrote: »

No one coming into ROI can have entered here illegally meaning only a very tiny percentage traveling from here to the U.K. could (if at all even) be illegal entering there tbh

The situation you describe in the second half (emboldened) of your post will definitely change after Brexit.

Whatever they say about a soft border, the fact is that anyone with an EU passport will be entitled to fly into Ireland without a visa and then hop on a flight to the UK. What happens next is the big unknown - do the airlines in Dublin apply some kind of preboarding immigration check so we all get waved through in Heathrow or will we end up at the end of a passport queue behind people from all over the world?

George Sunsnow

coylemj wrote: »

The situation you describe in the second half (emboldened) of your post will definitely change after Brexit.

Whatever they say about a soft border, the fact is that anyone with an EU passport will be entitled to fly into Ireland without a visa and then hop on a flight to the UK. What happens next is the big unknown - do the airlines in Dublin apply some kind of preboarding immigration check so we all get waved through in Heathrow or will we end up at the end of a passport queue behind people from all over the world?

It’ll be an esta type thing probably

JCX BXC

George Sunsnow wrote: »

It’ll be an esta type thing probably

That would wipe out travel between the UK and Ireland to a much lower number.

For some reason, I still don't see it happening. Perhaps this is naive.

JCX BXC

George Sunsnow wrote: »

Hmmm hasn’t Spain an EU member required API from other EU countries for years though which is essentially an Esta lite

Is that what you mean?

Nothing like an ESTA really, it's a bit more detailed than simply looking for your name and date of birth upon booking (which must be done upon check-in anyway)

LXFlyer

There is API sharing between Ireland and the UK already for all people flying between the two countries as I understand it.

coylemj

George Sunsnow wrote: »

It’ll be an esta type thing probably

I doubt if people with Irish passports will need to apply for anything in advance but the UK authorities will start to assume that there's a heap of EU (other than Irish) passport holders on board the same flight so potentially everyone will have to queue for passport control.

Or they may setup some kind of system where Irish passport holders get waved through a fast lane or there may be an automated lane where a reader scans your Irish passport and as long as it's current, the gate opens and lets you through. Though the automated option may be too expensive for the smaller UK airports.

coylemj

LXFlyer wrote: »

There is API sharing between Ireland and the UK already for all people flying between the two countries as I understand it.

Aer Lingus will let you board a flight to the UK with a bus pass so I don't think so.

JCX BXC

coylemj wrote: »

Aer Lingus will let you board a flight to the UK with a bus pass so I don't think so.

Really? I never knew they accepted PSC's.

coylemj

JCX BXC wrote: »

Really? I never knew they accepted PSC's.

I never mentioned the PSC. Aer Lingus will accept virtually anything with your photo on it for travel to the UK. Ryanair claim that their insistence on a passport is all about security, it is no such thing and is all about stopping people from giving a ticket they can't use to a friend.

This is the Aer Lingus guidance for UK & Irish citizens travelling between the two countries.....

If you’re a citizen of Ireland and/or Britain, you need to carry some form of official photo identification in order to be able to fly with us.

Note: To travel between Ireland and Britain with photo identification other than a passport, you must have been born in Ireland or the U.K. and also be a citizen of either country.

The following forms of photo identification are acceptable once they are in date:

• Valid passport
• Driver’s licence with photo
• International student card
• National ID card/government issued photo ID cards
• Health insurance cards with photo/social security cards with photo
• Bus pass with photo
• Work ID with photo

https://www.aerlingus.com/travel-information/passports-and-visas/travel-to-from-britain/

LXFlyer

coylemj wrote: »

Aer Lingus will let you board a flight to the UK with a bus pass so I don't think so.

The passenger data is provided to the other jurisdiction beforehand by the airlines - it may be limited to their name/email but it is certainly shared.

George Sunsnow

JCX BXC wrote: »

Is that what you mean?

Nothing like an ESTA really, it's a bit more detailed than simply looking for your name and date of birth upon booking (which must be done upon check-in anyway)

Well no Spain wants your passport details before you fly too aiui? Which is a lot like an esta lite

coylemj

George Sunsnow wrote: »

Well no Spain wants your passport details before you fly too aiui? Which is a lot like an esta lite

Spain and Portugal both require the API data but it's nothing like the ESTA process which involves an advance application which can be refused at which point you must apply for a visa. And even getting the ESTA approval does not guarantee that you will be allowed enter the US, you still have to do a stand-up interview with an agent at the point of entry.

In contrast, Spain and Portugal are in the Schengen zone which means that millions of people enter those countries from all over Europe (excl. UK & Ireland) every year with no identity check at all. And given that travellers from Ireland and the UK have to show their passports on arrival, it makes you wonder why they require the API data.

coylemj

LXFlyer wrote: »

The passenger data is provided to the other jurisdiction beforehand by the airlines - it may be limited to their name/email but it is certainly shared.

All they're going to get is the first name and last name of each passenger and the e-mail address of the person who made the booking. I seriously cannot see what use there is in collecting such flimsy data.

coylemj

Aer Lingus will let you board a flight to the UK with a bus pass so I don't think so.

LXFlyer wrote: »

The passenger data is provided to the other jurisdiction beforehand by the airlines - it may be limited to their name/email but it is certainly shared.

All they're going to get is the first name and last name of each passenger and the e-mail address of the person who made the booking. I seriously cannot see what use there is in collecting such flimsy data.

JCX BXC

coylemj wrote: »

I never mentioned the PSC.

A bus pass (free travel card) is now a PSC.

I've never been asked for passport info upon booking my flight to Spain, where have you been hearing George? It's simply name, only at check in am I asked for my passport info, as all airlines I've flown with require.

coylemj

JCX BXC wrote: »

A bus pass (free travel card) is now a PSC.

But not every PSC card is a 'bus pass' because there's hundreds of thousands of them out there which do not entitle the bearer to free travel, mine included. If they meant 'free travel pass' or 'PSC card' they would have said so. The PSC card is a Govt. issued id with photo which is a separate line item on that list.

JCX BXC wrote: »

I've never been asked for passport info upon booking my flight to Spain, where have you been hearing George? It's simply name, only at check in am I asked for my passport info, as all airlines I've flown with require.

After you've made a booking, Aer Lingus encourages you to provide API data on their website for flights to Spain and Portugal but they don't insist on it. If you don't provide the data in advance, it's entered on the system when you check-in and they pass it on to the authorities in the destination country as they do for the US flights.

bob50

I have never understood why Ryanair requires a valid passort for travel between Ireland and the Uk

i am a regular traveller to England and last month went over to a funeral with my brother who doesnt have passport. So had to use Aer Lingus he has a labour card with his photo on it and no problems. And the in august

As regards after brexit We are in the "common travel area" between here & the uk and have been for decades. So i dont see any issues coming up