All quiet on the Korean peninsula, but is Spain about to erupt?

lawred2

P_1 wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41463719

Can't see Madrid's reaction to this being any good.

I'm sure they see room to up the ante on the Catalan womenfolk..

P_1

P_1 wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41463719

Can't see Madrid's reaction to this being any good.

No surprise, as in reality only the yes people came out to vote, if the government had allowed the vote it's quite likely the result would either been a yes with a low turnout or a no.

As it is the separatists can claim moral victory because of the the violence surrounding the whole fiasco.

Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont says the region has won the right to statehood following Sunday's contentious referendum which was marred by violence.

He said the door had been opened to a unilateral declaration of independence.

That can only lead to bloodshed if he goes down that route.

batistuta9

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That can only lead to bloodshed if he goes down that route.

they're required to announce independence within 48 hours

bear1

I think we are heading into a serious **** storm between the 2 governments.
And considering madrids handling of this then it isn't surprising at all that the result was to be independent.
A serious sit down and in fact I'd suggest the eu get involved and mitigate this before it gets even further out of hand.

seachto7

Doltanian wrote: »

The Catalans should arm themselves and start killing the Spanish Police, send them back to Madrid in bodybags. They tried to have a democratic referendum and these thugs were sent in from Madrid to crack innocent peoples skulls.

These are no different to the black and tans being sent into Ireland, the Catalans must fight back and make a Universal Declaration of Independence from Spain. Had the Spanish done nothing and kept their army of thugs at home and let the referendum pass off peacefully it would probably have been rejected. Instead the people will rise against Spain and I for one support them. ETA and the Catalans should immediately take the fight to the Spanish because the Spaniards have shown they are unwilling to accept peaceful democracy just like the British tried in Ireland.

The vote today was illegal anyway so the police were probably needed there but their violence was out of order ...

BillyBobBS

bear1 wrote: »

I think we are heading into a serious **** storm between the 2 governments.
And considering madrids handling of this then it isn't surprising at all that the result was to be independent.
A serious sit down and in fact I'd suggest the eu get involved and mitigate this before it gets even further out of hand.

The EU are a fecking mess. Why the hell would anyone want them involved???
They have invented the refugee crisis that is destroying the continent.

A Dub in Glasgo

seachto7 wrote: »

The vote today was illegal anyway so the police were probably needed there but their violence was out of order ...

States declare the legality or otherwise of things,what Parks did was illegal, what Mandela did was illegal, what Gandai did was illegal, what Connolly did was illegal... need I go on?

Pero_Bueno

They have said they will declare independence.
Now the real fun starts ....

jesus god help us all ....

seachto7

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

States declare the legality or otherwise of things,what Parks did was illegal, what Mandela did was illegal, what Gandai did was illegal, what Connolly did was illegal... need I go on?

Not recognised by the EU either ?
It's hardly like the Scottish referendum

A Little Pony

Doltanian wrote: »

737max wrote: »

allowing a peace movement descend in to violence in Ireland brought over three thousand deaths and decades of misery for everyone which nobody wanted yet you would want to incite similar in another country.  
You Sir are a grade A Moron.

The situation in Northern Ireland was you had one population subjugated along ethnic and religious lines, what should they have done? Just put up with it and shut-up? I don't condone terrorism but there is terrorism and there is fighting for justice and liberty. Going by your logic perhaps the allies should have just allowed Hitler to steamroll Europe to prevent losses. Freedom isn't free and we would all be British Citizens today had our own forefathers not stood and fought the good fight. This is Catalonians moment. They acted peacefully and the Spanish forces are the aggressors here not the Catalans. Should it erupt into fully blown Civil conflict then the Catalans will get plenty help from around Europe that is for certain.

The troubles was full of thugs just murdering innocent civilians walking to the shop to get a pint of milk or census collectors or pub shootings/bombings, shankill butchers etc. Nothing honorable about any of it. It's been 20 years and it's best it was forgot about.

Gringo180

Spanish authorities basically behaving like a rogue state. You wouldnt see that carry on in Saudi Arabia.

A Little Pony

bear1 wrote: »

I think we are heading into a serious **** storm between the 2 governments.
And considering madrids handling of this then it isn't surprising at all that the result was to be independent.
A serious sit down and in fact I'd suggest the eu get involved and mitigate this before it gets even further out of hand.

EU is to blame for this. Spanish youth unemployment is ridiculous, same with Greece. High unemployment mixed with Nationalism creates political chaos.

Harry Palmr

Pretty amazing mishandling of this, once blood is spilt by the state against a region or peoples in a democracy it can only lead to a wider/deeper campaign against the same.

They've made a rod for their own backs.

tigger123

What a massive cock up by the Spanish government. Created martyrs out of the protesters and recruited a shed load of new supporters for them.

dresden8

Deleted User wrote: »

No surprise, as in reality only the yes people came out to vote, if the government had allowed the vote it's quite likely the result would either been a yes with a low turnout or a no.

As it is the separatists can claim moral victory because of the the violence surrounding the whole fiasco.

Yup. Rajoy has fncked up on a spectacular scale. He may have created the destruction of Spain by his stupidity. Cameron wasn't the worst leader after all.

suicide_circus

bear1

A Little Pony wrote: »

EU is to blame for this. Spanish youth unemployment is ridiculous, same with Greece. High unemployment mixed with Nationalism creates political chaos.

How is the eu to blame for the Catalans wanting to be independent of Spain?

A Dub in Glasgo

end of the road

the catalans today took part in a democratic, legitimate act
they voted for independence, and were met with terrorism and brutalism from an aggresser nation, which want to prevent them, against their will, from being an independant state.
this must not be allowed. the catalans must get their independence.

737max

No Comrade, being beaten off the streets doesn't entitle what might be a minority to enforce Independence on what might be the majority. You are making a leap.

There we go lads, it's been decided.

end of the road

737max wrote: »

No Comrade, being beaten off the streets doesn't entitle what might be a minority to enforce Independence on what might be the majority. You are making a leap.

the majority want independence. been beaten off the streets by government forces makes those forces and government illegitimate.

bear1

If they had been left hold the vote peacefully it would have most likely resulted in a "remain in Spain" verdict. Even in the event of a vote for independence, it would have been purely symbolic as it has no legal weight under the Spanish constitution.

The appallingly misjudged reaction to this by the Spanish government strips away their credibility. Rajoy should step down.

bear1 wrote: »

How is the eu to blame for the Catalans wanting to be independent of Spain?

Because people love blaming the EU for everything that goes wrong in life.
This guy had a good take on it on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/GuitarMoog/status/914539185087934466

Lots about Schroedinger's EU today. Blamed simultaneously for being an all-powerful superstate and for not controlling its Member States.

Accused of wanting its own army and castigated for not sending gunboats to Barcelona 2/

An appalling infringement of sovereignty, simultaneously rendered impotent by its respect for sovereignty 3/

Unelected, unaccountable power hungry bureaucrats simultaneously castigated for requiring the consent of democratic Govts before acting 4/

With all that said, EU leaders should definitely be vocally chastising Rajoy and the Spanish authorities for this monumental fúckup. Seems only the Belgian PM has really denounced it thus far.

bear1

Seems like businesses will strike on Tuesday against madrids actions.
Rajoy has made himself look a right moron.
Not sure what can happen now, Tuesday Catalonia will declare themselves independent, but Madrid still controls their finances so I wonder what Barcelona will do now. Likewise Madrid as they have made this issue worse.

737max

end of the road wrote: »

the majority want independence.

How do you know that? Do you feel it in yer waters? As with Scotland it could be a case that those who don't want it and happy with the status quo keep stumm until forced to declare one way or another. Those living in the region who wish to stay in Spain haven't been forced to declare their wishes to remain as part of Spain or leave yet.

KERSPLAT!

end of the road wrote: »

the majority want independence. been beaten off the streets by government forces makes those forces and government illegitimate.

A majority want to vote, a minority want independence.

737max

Deleted User wrote: »

With all that said, EU leaders should definitely be vocally chastising Rajoy and the Spanish authorities for this monumental fúckup. Seems only the Belgian PM has really denounced it thus far.

Merkel had a call with Rajoy today which went something along the lines of "This stuff that I'm seeing on TV where your bootboy police are assaulting protestors; what's that all about then?"
It is a bit early for other E.U. leaders to condemn. They need to manouevre before they can condemn the Spanish Government. If he is unapologetic or doubles down then he'll find he is as welcome as a Tramp reeking of piss and b.o. at the next E.U. shindig.

Your Face

Never forget

Hector Bellend

It's all democracy and sh1t.