All quiet on the Korean peninsula, but is Spain about to erupt?

BillyBobBS

100% behind Rajoy and the Spanish government on this. Hope he tells the EU and Merkel in particular to fck right off.

A Dub in Glasgo

100% behind the stance that Rajoy should resign on this. Some of those who battered the living daylights out of voters should be charged with criminal offences as well

https://twitter.com/AlfredBosch/status/914539643605012482

Ave Sodalis

bear1 wrote:

How is the eu to blame for the Catalans wanting to be independent of Spain?

Exactly, the Catalans have been considering independence long before the EU was even formed.

NIMAN

Watching the news coverage yesterday, couldn't help but think of Northern Ireland in the late 60s with the RUC beating civil rights marchers off the streets.

Very similar.

Christy42

Surely if you were in favour of a Madrid government you would likely avoid going to the polling station the police were removing people from and stat home? I mean sure they suppressed some independence voters but I reckon they suppressed a lot more no votes.

These were not free and fair elections. It seems unfair for potential no voters that they were caught between two ways of saying no. However we also can't simply disregard a yes vote because of violence from the no side.

From what I can see Catalonia were also a bit sneaky bringing in the referendum without giving opposition much of a chance to respond. I think the fairest would be to have a new one, that the Spanish government agrees to support in a years time. Anyone responsible for the violence from the government would obviously have to go as well.

I don't think this will happen. Referendums are hard to ignore politically and a dodgy build up to it means tensions are high and people can get more protective of the result even if it means the result is not as definitive.

y0ssar1an22

BBDBB wrote: »

Injured total rises to over 700


Article 7 of the European Union Treaty

"Suspension of any Member State that uses military force on its own population"

Fairly sure that won't happen

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

Key word there is military. As long as they're in police unifrom the state can batter the ****e out of ye.

interesting the below from bbc:

The national police and Guardia Civil - a military force charged with police duties - were sent into Catalonia in large numbers to prevent the vote.

link: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41463719

Gringo180

BillyBobBS wrote: »

100% behind Rajoy and the Spanish government on this. Hope he tells the EU and Merkel in particular to fck right off.

Only a thug would condone those scenes yesterday.

geraardo

The spanish government should have just let them have there vote, they didn't have to recognise or ratify it, but to go in with a heavy handed

approach like this is very scary i must say.

Is it really coming to this where people cannot gather together to either have a peaceful protest or a referendum like the one in the Catalonia

region without the police "or what ever these guys are" march in and just throw and hit people other police and firemen, its crazy.

Is fascism alive and well, i think so.

Another reason they won't get independence is Barcelona that place is just too much money to give up.

Waiting to see what leaders from around europe and the world have to say in response to this.

dav3

BillyBobBS wrote: »

100% behind Rajoy and the Spanish government on this. Hope he tells the EU and Merkel in particular to fck right off.

It's like the rotted dead corpse of O'Duffy has risen from the grave and is posting on boards.

Buford T. Justice XIX

geraardo wrote: »

The spanish government should have just let them have there vote, they didn't have to recognise or ratify it, but to go in with a heavy handed

approach like this is very scary i must say.

Is it really coming to this where people cannot gather together to either have a peaceful protest or a referendum like the one in the Catalonia

region without the police "or what ever these guys are" march in and just throw and hit people other police and firemen, its crazy.

Is fascism alive and well, i think so.

Another reason they won't get independence is Barcelona that place is just too much money to give up.

Waiting to see what leaders from around europe and the world have to say in response to this.

Spot on.

If they just continued ignoring it, life would continue on as normal.

By recognising the protest, they have given recognition to the idea of independence and that idea will be impossible to put back in the box.

Elmer Blooker

geraardo wrote: »

The spanish government should have just let them have there vote, they didn't have to recognise or ratify it, but to go in with a heavy handed approach like this is very scary i must say.

You would wonder why Madrid sent in the heavies.
There is an easier way. First let them have their vote, then get the media on board and declare that according to "sources" the Kremlin is behind the vote in order to break up Spain and the EU.
In fact I am very very surprised that a Russian interference/Putin connection hasn't been "discovered" ........ yet.

bear1

What's next now?
Catalonia declares independence resulting from a referendum declared illegal by the constitutional court.
Does Spain then throw more military into the mix to stop it going further?
Does Catalonia/Spain request help from the EU?
Wonder how much the Spanish government spent trying to contain this..

josip

I must admit that I'm following this with some bemusement.
Spain were very quick to try to use Brexit to gain some advantage with Gibraltar whereas it seems that they should have been looking east instead of south.
The EU establishment were also supportive of Spain's position at the time if I remember correctly, but now they have a much bigger problem to address.
I'm not in favour of Brexit, I just didn't like the way Spain were one of the first in to try and bite off a piece of the UK corpse.

Floki

Is Ireland going to be the first country to recognize the independent state of Catalonia?

WinnyThePoo

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

You would wonder why Madrid sent in the heavies.
There is an easier way. First let them have their vote, then get the media on board and declare that according to "sources" the Kremlin is behind the vote in order to break up Spain and the EU.
In fact I am very very surprised that a Russian interference/Putin connection hasn't been "discovered" ........ yet.

If no is bringing that up. Why are you? Got some inside comrade?

NoCrackHaving

dav3 wrote: »

It's like the rotted dead corpse of O'Duffy has risen from the grave and is posting on boards.

I always find it interesting how these sort of threads always bring out the fascist admiration streak in a significant minority of posters.

faceman

Floki wrote: »

Is Ireland going to be the first country to recognize the independent state of Catalonia?

No and rightly so. Leo has already made a statement on it.

Floki

:pac::)

https://twitter.com/othbcn/status/914750829080580096

ChikiChiki

Spanish cops are absolute thugs. Illegal referendum it may have been but no way in hell can their excessive force be justified. Hitting old ladies and injured with their batons just for the sake of it as hey walked down the street. Whoever gave the orders for such force is not fit to lead a country in the 21st century and anyone who says its justified is a thug.

Madrid could have dealt with this far better by sitting back and letting the symbolic vote happen and now have made the situation 10x worse.

A Little Pony

If they declare UDI then the Spanish Army will have no choice but to invade and put down the rebellion.

end of the road

faceman wrote: »

No and rightly so. Leo has already made a statement on it.

why rightly so. 90% of those who voted, voted in favour of independence.

Floki

faceman wrote: »

No and rightly so. Leo has already made a statement on it.

What is this country's official position on this?

What did Leo say?

(Can't find anything online about it. Only mentions on Twitter about him making a commemoration at Ballingarry for famine victims and how they died for their country and how we should honour their legacy).
Whatever that is?

Collie D

The silence from around Europe is pretty sickening. Any that have spoken up have focused on the referendum itself rather than the actions of the police and government of Spain. Is this what our leaders think is a righteous response to protest?

Neon_Lights

Leo said Ireland doesn't recognise the election apparently. That's not what I'm thinking and it's pretty rich, being head of a now sovereign Republic. If it was contra his interests it would be going about the change in the right way, the European heads have colluded and have an agenda on this it seems.

josip

All countries will keep shtum until a clear winner emerges and will then align themselves with the new reality.

Floki

Neon_Lights wrote: »

Leo said Ireland doesn't recognise the election apparently. That's not what I'm thinking and it's pretty rich, being head of a now sovereign Republic. If it was contra his interests it would be going about the change in the right way, the European heads have colluded and have an agenda on this it seems.

The only one that came out and condemned the brutality straight off was the Belgian PM and that's because they are trying to get their own referendum through on splitting up Belgium.
Leo condemned the violence eventually but doesn't recognise the vote.
The spanish police are no stranger to excess violence and no one ever gets prosecuted. They are the law after all. Can do what you want really.

The Eu said that it doesn't recognise the vote as it was against Spanish law and that if Catalonia does declare independence that it won't recognize it and it will be outside the EU.

Since when did Ireland join the bully boy club? Whatever happened to defender of small nations? We must have evolved upwards from those notions when we joined the club.

A Little Pony

Floki wrote: »

Neon_Lights wrote: »

Leo said Ireland doesn't recognise the election apparently. That's not what I'm thinking and it's pretty rich, being head of a now sovereign Republic. If it was contra his interests it would be going about the change in the right way, the European heads have colluded and have an agenda on this it seems.

The only one that came out and condemned the brutality straight off was the Belgian PM and that's because they are trying to get their own referendum through on splitting up Belgium.
Leo condemned the violence eventually but doesn't recognise the vote.
The spanish police are no stranger to excess violence and no one ever gets prosecuted. They are the law after all. Can  do what you want really.

The Eu said that it doesn't recognise the vote as it was against Spanish law and that if Catalonia does declare independence that it won't recognize it and it will be outside the EU.

Since when did Ireland join the bully boy club? Whatever happened to defender of small nations? We must have evolved upwards from those notions when we joined the club.

Welcome to the EU. Enjoy it.

Neon_Lights

Floki wrote: »

The only one that came out and condemned the brutality straight off was the Belgian PM and that's because they are trying to get their own referendum through on splitting up Belgium.
Leo condemned the violence eventually but doesn't recognise the vote.
The spanish police are no stranger to excess violence and no one ever gets prosecuted. They are the law after all. Can do what you want really.

The Eu said that it doesn't recognise the vote as it was against Spanish law and that if Catalonia does declare independence that it won't recognize it and it will be outside the EU.

Since when did Ireland join the bully boy club? Whatever happened to defender of small nations? We must have evolved upwards from those notions when we joined the club.

Its a very a ironic point of view to be having. So we want to free Palestine but not free catalonia.

I dub our taoiseach Leo the Licka**e

Neon_Lights

A Little Pony wrote: »

Welcome to the EU. Enjoy it.

If you look at the basque region Spain is crumbling into its traditional regions.

faceman

end of the road wrote: »

why rightly so. 90% of those who voted, voted in favour of independence.

With all due respect, you really need to educate yourself, assuming you're not trolling.