All quiet on the Korean peninsula, but is Spain about to erupt?

A Dub in Glasgo

They are shipped in from the rest of Spain as well as local police

https://twitter.com/catalannews/status/914453409453023232


https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/911173118827393024

Richard Hillman

One thing that struck me in Spain about the Civil Guardia is that they are seriously built guys that wouldn't be out of place at an MMA ring. Not the type that you would fancy yourself against in a riot situation

mad muffin

This is what happens when a country is living on dictator time for over 70 years…

osarusan

Samaris

On top of the rest of it, wasn't this very situation commented on by spods all over Europe back when Scotland tried it? If just people spectating from the internet could see it coming, surely Madrid, with in-depth knowledge of the situation, should have seen it coming?

So why in heaven's name are they reacting in this "caught-on-the-hop" clamp-down method? They had plenty of warning this could happen, even if Scotland didn't vote independence.

Elmer Blooker

I don't think this referendum can be taken seriously when the organisers are now telling the voters that they can print their own ballot papers at home!
Print how many? A hundred maybe?

Samaris

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I don't think this referendum can be taken seriously when the organisers are now telling the voters that they can print their own ballot papers at home!
Print how many? A hundred maybe?

Well, the records of who lives where and how many people of a given name there are should sort things out to a large extent. I don't know what the rules are regarding ID either.

But really, when the referendum is being dropped on to this extent, what other choice is there? There's no really good options. And there's the almost certain fear amongst the population that people who do vote have their names somewhere as having voted in this illegal referendum and what could that mean later on. This may or may not be a fear that will ever come true, but given what's going on, that cannot help but have passed through many minds.

The_Valeyard

The Spanish government action today may just ignite the flames of open rebellion.

RasTa

Well this is pretty crazy

https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/914428231977197568

bear1

Madrids reaction to this has been completely over the top and you'd nearly side with Catalans for their own independence.
I wonder if Catalonia was actually the poorest region would Madrid care as much?
Let them vote and then see what happens but because of images of Spanish police on the attack it will just result in people voting in anger rather than logically.
Madrid has shot themselves with this and the eu should call them out on their approach to what was a peaceful event.

A Dub in Glasgo

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I don't think this referendum can be taken seriously when the organisers are now telling the voters that they can print their own ballot papers at home!
Print how many? A hundred maybe?

Maybe so, the paramilitary police have smashed their way into the polling stations and stole the voting boxes and the voting forms anyway. Voters had to show ID and the polling station had an internet connection to the electoral register. The police cut the internet links at the polling stations this morning

bear1

RasTa wrote: »

Well this is pretty crazy

https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/914428231977197568

Absolutely disgusting behaviour from them. Throwing women down stairs as well.
Bet those actions will be defended too.

The_Valeyard

bear1 wrote: »

Madrids reaction to this has been completely over the top and you'd nearly side with Catalans for their own independence.
I wonder if Catalonia was actually the poorest region would Madrid care as much?
Let them vote and then see what happens but because of images of Spanish police on the attack it will just result in people voting in anger rather than logically.
Madrid has shot themselves with this and the eu should call them out on their approach to what was a peaceful event.

If you were unsure about Independence or not, the over reaction today by State thugs has probably swung people thay way.

As stated earlier, if the Spanish are not careful, they will create their own 1916

kupus

Italy wants to divide north and south. Then the very north of italy wants to be independant, more germanic than italian.

Tis funny to hear the singsong italian accent spoken with what seems like a german dialect but is italian

Belgium wants to split in three. French Netherlands and Germany.

Catalan region, basque region, scotland, northern ireland,
Bosnia wants o split into three again. Albania/kosovo wants a part of Macedonia. Greece wants a part of macedonia.

Interesting times.

tonycascarino

kupus wrote: »

Italy wants to divide north and south. Then the very north of italy wants to be independant, more germanic than italian.

Tis funny to hear the singsong italian accent spoken with what seems like a german dialect but is italian

Belgium wants to split in three. French Netherlands and Germany.

Catalan region, basque region, scotland, northern ireland,
Bosnia wants o split into three again. Albania/kosovo wants a part of Macedonia. Greece wants a part of macedonia.

Interesting times.

..and Germany (using the EU) want Europe in its' entirety

The_Valeyard

kupus wrote: »

Italy wants to divide north and south. Then the very north of italy wants to be independant, more germanic than italian.

Tis funny to hear the singsong italian accent spoken with what seems like a german dialect but is italian

Belgium wants to split in three. French Netherlands and Germany.

Catalan region, basque region, scotland, northern ireland,
Bosnia wants o split into three again. Albania/kosovo wants a part of Macedonia. Greece wants a part of macedonia.

Interesting times.

The end of nation states?

bear1

kupus wrote: »

Italy wants to divide north and south. Then the very north of italy wants to be independant, more germanic than italian.

Tis funny to hear the singsong italian accent spoken with what seems like a german dialect but is italian

Belgium wants to split in three. French Netherlands and Germany.

Catalan region, basque region, scotland, northern ireland,
Bosnia wants o split into three again. Albania/kosovo wants a part of Macedonia. Greece wants a part of macedonia.

Interesting times.

Not really correct about Italy.
The only region and I use the word region loosely is Trentino alto adige.
And primarily it's bolzano as for example Trento would already consider themselves Italian.
Bolzano And it's surrounding areas want to unite with Austria and so have German as their first language.
They enjoy a lot of autonomy.
Lombardy wanted to be it's on country and then you have the usual Sicily and sardegna regions which want independence but these regions aren't wealthy so I can't see being able to survive if they left.

Turtwig

This is the height of stupidity by the Spanish government. There is a very real danger that the more fringe separatists Catalan use the apparent impotency of peaceful and democratic protests to push for more violent conflict.

Turtwig

Turtwig wrote: »

This is the height of stupidity by the Spanish government. There is a very real danger that the more fringe separatists Catalan use the apparent impotency of peaceful and democratic protests to push for more violent conflict.

Yes, it's a bit like putting G clamps on a pressure cooker and screwing down the safety valve, allowing the vote to go ahead would have released the steam out of the system.

bilston

Very odd reaction by the Spanish police, as I understand it this referendum has no validity. They'd have better to leave well alone. This just makes emboldens any independence movement that exists in Catalonia.

bilston

The BBC are reporting a Catalonian govt spokesperson as saying that 337 people have been injured in clashes. That's a pretty extraordinary figure. The Spanish govt says 11 police have been hurt. Obviously a lot are probably pretty minor injuries but it shows the scale of these clashes.

Buford T. Justice XIX

The_Valeyard wrote: »

If you were unsure about Independence or not, the over reaction today by State thugs has probably swung people thay way.

As stated earlier, if the Spanish are not careful, they will create their own 1916

I think they already have. It looks like a much more restrained version of the Black&Tans, Auxiliaries and B specials except this century they are being filmed right, left and center with every second person having a camera phone.

What international observer would support a government that sent in troops to throw men and women down stairs?

Who wouldn't support Catalonias quest for self representation when observing how their fellow 'Spanish' police force enforce their authority?

The fight is lost now, all the Spanish Authorities can hope to do is limit the damage.

Ulysses Gaze

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I think they already have. It looks like a much more restrained version of the Black&Tans, Auxiliaries and B specials except this century they are being filmed right, left and center with every second person having a camera phone.

What international observer would support a government that sent in troops to throw men and women down stairs?

Who wouldn't support Catalonias quest for self representation when observing how their fellow 'Spanish' police force enforce their authority?

The fight is lost now, all the Spanish Authorities can hope to do is limit the damage.

And watch out for the Basques demanding the same as the Catalans.

tomwaterford

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

And watch out for the Basques demanding the same as the Catalans.

This could be interesting....but I think basques have a section of France aswell,which complicates things further?

BillyBobBS

Bizarre how the Spanish police under instruction from Madrid are handling this.

dresden8

Where's that lone gunman when you need him.

What'll happen if a cop gets shot?

Yakult

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Fully body armoured police throwing voters down stairs and dragging them out of the polling stations by the hair... lovely way to project a democacy in the EU

No such thing as 'democracy'

The people just think that they have democracy, but look deeper and you see nothing but a dictatorship which is smartly painted to look like something else!

4068ac1elhodqr

bear1 wrote: »

Not really correct about Italy.

Italy is the 2nd fav to leave the EU (after Greece). Think they probably will.
Centrally positioned on the med with various bordering countries they may even survive outside the EU, pending progress with the Brexit model as an example.

Catalonia on the other hand only has France (aside from the rest of Spain). Only 7.5m people, rated BB, half the 'area GDP' of Dublin (inc the SE area) (per capita) .

If it ever leaves Spain and the EU, may well have to rely on cheap tourist holidays or some sort of tax-haven status.

bear1

Rory Hollow Muffin wrote: »

Italy is the 2nd fav to leave the EU (after Greece). Think they probably will.
Centrally positioned on the med with various bordering countries they may even survive outside the EU, pending progress with the Brexit model as an example.

Catalonia on the other hand only has France (aside from the rest of Spain). Only 7.5m people, rated BB, half the 'area GDP' of Dublin (inc the SE area).

If it ever leaves Spain and the EU, may well have to rely on cheap tourist holidays or some sort of tax-haven status.

Italy's economy isn't doing too well so I wouldn't bet on them leaving.
Their discontent with the eu is 2 fold.

1) the practical abandonment of the eu towards Italy regarding the migration issue

2) the euro which has left many still bitter from the conversion with the lira.

It's probably going completely off topic but I'd be confident in saying Italy won't leave the block

4068ac1elhodqr

bear1 wrote: »

Italy's economy isn't doing too well so I wouldn't bet on them leaving.

Neither would I as the odds are too short at around 3/1, so no value.

Think they will, and it will be due to the main singular issue that created the event known as Brexit. All projections are for uncontrolled migration to continue across the Med in the coming years.

The question is if Italy could (maybe) 'just about' survive outside of the EU, can the same be said about Catalonia?

If the Catalans leave Spain, they will likely leave the EU at the same time, and have to reapply for re-membership (in the same way that Scotland will eventually have to).