US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

Silane

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Probably best to do nothing and let the fat one throw tantrums every so often and generally just ignore him.

But if its going to be military action I'd imagine the plan is to have the Korean peninsula re united and the South Koreans take control.

No way would China let that happen, if it kicks off they will take control of North Korea

Noddyholder

Mr.Micro wrote: »

With Trump having the codes, anything is possible. If the US keeps poking a stick at NK, then an unpredictable Kim may feel he has lost, so **** it, launch.

Its not the US poking the stick its NK , Or is folks with a dislikeing for the US blind to everything else around them.

China's foreign ministry said it had no advance knowledge of any test and it firmly opposed Pyongyang's action.

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe called the announcement a threat to his nation's safety.

South Korea's presidential office held an emergency meeting and later said the government would take all possible measures to respond to its neighbour and long-time foe's actions.

ChikiChiki

ChikiChiki wrote: »

On another note its been reported that new ICBMs were paraded in Pyongyang today.

Just watched that parade on the news site and I am thinking, just how much of NK's military resources are actually in that parade?
I know their troop numbers are huge so in that respect only a small percentage, but what about the hardware.
Talk about a perfect target if someone was mad enough to press the button.
Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if much of that hardware was simply models being paraded while the real stuff is on active service elsewhere.

Noddyholder

President trump is not doing anything any other President would be doing ,

Paul Haenle, an Asia adviser to both George W Bush and Mr Obama, the Trump strategy for North Korea was “not that different” from those of his two predecessors as US president. “The idea was you either fix this problem with us or we’re going to have to go it alone — and the repercussions of that you will not like,” he said. “It’s just more urgent now because of Kim Jong Un and how rapidly he’s moving on his missile and nuclear programme.”

https://www.google.es/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiJh7fXh6bTAhXBxRQKHcAKDxcQFghjMAs&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2F3eb2ef5c-1849-11e7-a53d-df09f373be87&usg=AFQjCNFKlwql28huljdFS1TaQxAwEEZvOw

CoolHandBandit

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Probably best to do nothing and let the fat one throw tantrums every so often and generally just ignore him.

But if its going to be military action I'd imagine the plan is to have the Korean peninsula re united and the South Koreans take control.

Nobody can afford to "do nothing". Having this lunatic with nuclear ICBM's is not an option nor should it be. I hope war is a last option but i honestly think the hawks in America have made up their mind and they realise they have a pretty narrow window before it's too late. I'm still hopeful the fat one will be taken out from within when war is inevitable and the NK generals know a war is unwinnable.

sjb25

NoviGlitzko wrote: »

What's the solution here?

Bomb the place into oblivion.
Setup a new puppet government.
Tell the people it's democracy.
Setup a central bank.
Loan them billions to rebuild.

Sure have seen this story before.

.

The_Valeyard

Someone needs to blink first here and soon.

bilston

RoboKlopp wrote: »

ChikiChiki wrote: »

The Trump administration would be in my opinion.

On another note its been reported that new ICBMs were paraded in Pyongyang today.

Nervy times in South Korea I'd imagine!

They've been here before, every April in fact, this is the time of year tensions get ratcheted up.

This year is different for two reasons, one is Trump, he is unpredictable, nobody knows what is going on in his mind and he has already shown in the past week he is not afraid of taking military action which could have dangerous consequences.

The second reason is that with every passing year North Korea gets closer and closer to having the ability to hit the US with nuclear weapons, they may even be there already. I don't think Trump will let that happen. It may even be too late.

I think one way or the other this situation will come to a head at some point.

There are obviously two solutions, a military one or a diplomatic one. Either way China is the key. The Americans acting as they are is maybe a way to convince the Chinese they mean business which in turn increases the pressure on them to find a political solution. If the North Koreans see a large US fleet to their east and a mass of Chinese soldiers to their west they MAY realise the game is up. A solution could include them giving up their nukes in return for a Chinese guarantee of their security. Unfortunately that may not be possible as that sort of solution hasn't worked out too well for Ukraine.

A military solution is very dangerous and unless US or Chinese special forces could somehow take out all North Korea's nukes in advance it's hard to see how any war wouldn't go nuclear to some degree, albeit it would be fairly limited unless China and the US turned their guns on each other which I don't think is very likely at all. Even a conventional war would be more like the Battle for Japan than the invasion of Iraq and would be very costly for the whole of the region. Plus once the genie is out of the bottle who knows what direction of travel we go in. For example if Japan got involved what would that mean regards China.

I just hope Trump has people around him who actually explain the consequences of any potential action in North Korea. His attack on Syria last week seemed very emotional and reactionary without much thought of the consequences of his actions. I even heardsoneone on Sky News suggest that Ivanka pressured him into It because the TV pictures of dying children upset her so much (and to be fair they upset me a lot too). That may not be true, but either way he really cannot afford to act emotionally against North Korea.

You say nervy times in South Korea, the question will South Korea get a say in what happens, Soeul's very future depends upon it.

Capt'n Midnight

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Any war with NK would be incredibly messy with no winners.

The military - industrial complex thingy would make lots of money for the super rich, Trump would get re-elected, patriotism would rise so Congress could roll back civil liberties a bit more.

Only the nobodies would be losers.

Bobeagleburger

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The military - industrial complex thingy would make lots of money for the super rich, Trump would get re-elected, patriotism would rise so Congress could roll back civil liberties a bit more.

Only the nobodies would be losers.

and the dead obviously.

archer22

Those who think China is going to become America's Poodle in an assault on North Korea needs to cut back on the wacky baccy.
While China seeks peace on the Korean peninsula and will try everything politically possible to achieve this...but this does not mean they will ever support American aggression against their neighbour.
China has its own problems with American provocation both in the South China Sea and the American "pivot to Asia" which in plain language is ..containment of China by surrounding it with military bases.
China has developed its DF-21D ballistic missile system for one purpose and one purpose only...TO SINK AMERICAN CARRIERS.
The Chinese want peace...but its not peace at the price of humiliation like they suffered previously at the hands of foreigners.
They remember well Whitey sailing up their rivers bombarding their cities and parking off their coast forcing them to smoke opium.
They might not overly love Kim Jong Un but they will certainly support their North Korean neighbours against Whiteys new round of gunboat diplomacy ...thats a certainty.

bilston

archer22 wrote: »

Those who think China is going to become America's Poodle in an assault on North Korea needs to cut back on the wacky baccy.
While China seeks peace on the Korean peninsula and will try everything politically possible to achieve this...but this does not mean they will ever support American aggression against their neighbour.
China has its own problems with American provocation both in the South China Sea and the American "pivot to Asia" which in plain language is ..containment of China by surrounding it with military bases.
China has developed its DF-21D ballistic missile system for one purpose and one purpose only...TO SINK AMERICAN CARRIERS.
The Chinese want peace...but its not peace at the price of humiliation like they suffered previously at the hands of foreigners.
They remember well Whitey sailing up their rivers bombarding their cities and parking off their coast forcing them to smoke opium.
They might not overly love Kim Jong Un but they will certainly support their North Korean neighbours against Whiteys new round of gunboat diplomacy ...thats a certainty.

No they won't. China can't win a war against the United States anymore than North Korea can. They won't fight the Americans.

The_Valeyard

bilston wrote: »

No they won't. China can't win a war against the United States anymore than North Korea can. They won't fight the Americans.

If it comes to it. I'd say China will take over North Korea. In fact I would not be surprised if they already had North Korean generals loyal to China ready to activate and help with the transfer of power.

Fiery mutant

If it happens, I think China will take the lead. The U.S. Will focus on taking out the artillery on the North/South border, Chine will move from the other side. Take out the air bases and then there's not much left.

Don't forget many of these Generals you see in these photo shoots with Kim, probably are not very good generals in my opinion, hand picked by Kim and basically just puppets to his bidding. When it comes down to actual combat, I don't see them putting up much of a fight.

Gatling

The_Valeyard wrote: »

If it comes to it. I'd say China will take over North Korea. In fact I would not be surprised if they already had North Korean generals loyal to China ready to activate and help with the transfer of power.

A unified Korea is a threat to China so likely it won't happen or they will do a massive land grab to use as a buffer zone

Cheerful Spring

Kim had a parade today.

He displayed new missiles for a wider world audience

North Korea showed two new kinds of ICBM enclosed in canister launchers mounted on the back of trucks, suggesting Pyongyang was working towards a "new concept" of ICBM, said Melissa Hanham, a senior research associate at the US-based Middlebury Institute of International Studies at Monterey.

The Pukkuksong submarine-launched ballistic missiles were also on parade.

It was the first time North Korea had shown the missiles, which have a range of more than 1,000 kilometres, at a military parade.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-15/north-korea-parades-missiles-threatens-us/8446050

Its look like we not going to see a nuclear test. The pressure may have worked for now?

The_Valeyard

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Kim had a parade today.

He displayed new missiles for a wider world audience

North Korea showed two new kinds of ICBM enclosed in canister launchers mounted on the back of trucks, suggesting Pyongyang was working towards a "new concept" of ICBM, said Melissa Hanham, a senior research associate at the US-based Middlebury Institute of International Studies at Monterey.

The Pukkuksong submarine-launched ballistic missiles were also on parade.

It was the first time North Korea had shown the missiles, which have a range of more than 1,000 kilometres, at a military parade.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-15/north-korea-parades-missiles-threatens-us/8446050

Its look like we not going to see a nuclear test. The pressure may have worked for now?

Hopefully. Looks like Kim blinked first.

A Little Pony

If they test another nuclear missile it is then a declaration of war.

The_Valeyard

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Hopefully. Looks like Kim blinked first.

But meanwhile he continues his development. A submarine borne nuclear weapon would be a very ominous development, though I guess many Powers, not just the US, would compete to take out such a sub in the deep ocean where no tales could be told......

The_Valeyard

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But meanwhile he continues his development. A submarine borne nuclear weapon would be a very ominous development, though I guess many Powers, not just the US, would compete to take out such a sub in the deep ocean where no tales could be told......

Kim: What happened to our submarine???

Admiral: *shrug shoulders*

Gatling

A Little Pony wrote: »

If they test another nuclear missile it is then a declaration of war.

No it will be put down to provocation and condemned at the UN ,

Till he actually targets the south or an American facility then it's carry on as usual

castletownman

Is any else reminded of Deadwood when Mr.Woo tries to explain a robbery to Al Swearengen when picturing Trump's communication with China/NK?

Alpha_zero

A preemptive strike against North Korea would be futile, it would have to be overwhelming force as unlike Syria North Korea have the capacity to strike targets further away with considerable firepower.

Also American would likely need to consult China before any strike as there would be a risk they would intervene in any conflict.

China are prepared to move into North Korea should the regime collapse. Ultimately America have two options on North Korea negotiate or attack.

pjohnson

Gatling wrote: »

No it will be put down to provocation and condemned at the UN ,

Till he actually targets the south of an American facility then it's carry on as usual

Does Donnie know this?

Discodog

Trump has hinted at deals. Maybe you help with NK & we won't intervene in your new Islands. NK has to be stopped & it won't be by negotiation unless Kim is overthrown.

threeball

Deleted User wrote: »

The best case scenario would be for the NK regime to collapse after a short war and for the US & China to agree not to occupy the country and just allow reunification.
If Korea was ever to reunite, the costs of reviving the north would be a millstone around their economy for decades, so it's unlikely to be than much of a threat to China.

Somehow I don't think the South Koreans will be quite as German about achieving equilibrium. The North will be used for cheap labour while it slowly begins to find its feet and the people there will be delighted to have it. There is not a chance that the people of the south open the border and let millions of uneducated, undernourished unemployed people flood the country. It will never happen. Jesus people here don't want the North of Ireland as it would be an economic burden and they're virtually on the same level to ourselves.

Alpha_zero

An immediate reunification would be a disaster for South Korea causing their economy to crash. North and South Korea have the widest gulf in GDP for any nation to share a border and speak the same language.

Also North korea would provide an even cheaper labor force for China and Pyongyang would serve as a deep water port for china, also the Uranium deposits would be useful for China

scamalert

well true SK wont want NKeans if say war happens, but China is actually at good positions they hold most wealth from NK in their banks, also constant issues with foxconn- apple factory ,lack of labor put nk to work and they will be happy grinding 20hours per day.Then land which is so secured from south side that basically impossible to know how many mines and traps there is,where china could roll in and keep it.

trouble is all of them live at least 50years behind,so they would be useless in modern society but if china used this to their advantage to build economy and factories it would work well to tackle main issue which is brainwashed people that dont know any other way in life.

Alpha_zero

The regime could implode and collapse without a fight, however the collapse could also happen after a fight. While their military is largely outdated, they still have significant numbers of Ballistic missiles, and with Seoul in Range of almost every North Korean heavy ordnance, they still retain a massive retaliatory threat but with conventional/chemical and possible nuclear strikes against targets in Japan and South Korea.

Also their is a possibility that China will support North Korea in a conflict.

Beyondgone

Kim might od on whatever his usual poison is and all this will be moot. Is there a Kim Chung-wan to take over from him?