US considering Preemptive Strike against North Korea.

Laois_Man

cnocbui wrote: »

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-assads-implausible-claims-about-chemical-weapons

http://www.thenational.ae/world/middle-east/syria-chemical-attack-samples-from-site-test-positive-for-sarin

Those ones.

I don't think the debate is centered around the fact that chemical weapons were used in Syria

The debate is centered around who used them!

Showing that there Sarin used presents no reasonable path to conclude anything!

Allah snackbar

I'm sure I'm being naive here , but from satellite images North Korea compared to South Korea looks like it has very little in the way of power stations and generating it's own grid , if anything was to happen I'd have thought the obvious thing to do would be to target them and wipe out it's power grid cutting off supply to the capital and all military areas , or am I totally underestimating North Korea , what are it's military capabilities compared to Russia or America ?, if one was to believe documentaries or the news it seems to be a very backward nation

cnocbui

Laois_Man wrote: »

I don't think the debate is centered around the fact that chemical weapons were used in Syria

The debate is centered around who used them!

Showing that there Sarin used presents no reasonable path to conclude anything!

I already addressed the debate part in referencing Putin's proven track record of lying at will. It never occurred to me to consider that someone might actually pay any attention to anything Assad might say or give it credence, I have to admit.

The two of them are busy contradicting each other quite nicely in their stories, so those two cancelling each other out leaves the truth as the remainder.

WinnyThePoo

I'd be worried for the civilians if there was ever a move on north Korea. I could see Kim slaughtering his own people. 'if I can't have it, you can't' attitude.

The Chinese would not want north Koreans streaming over either.

Gatling

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

I'd be worried for the civilians if there was ever a move on north Korea. I could see Kim slaughtering his own people. 'if I can't have it, you can't' attitude.

The Chinese would not want north Koreans streaming over either.

I can imagine a Johnstown massacre on a Biblical scale

TeaBagMania

No one likes a dictator
Look back at the Iraqi invasion, lob a few mortars, destroy a couple tanks and half the army surrender's
IMHO the NK peoples true dedication to kim is few and far between

A Little Pony

Liberty must take the day. Time to free them.

TeaBagMania

On another note, its time to bring home the USS Pueblo

Capt'n Midnight

Dubh Linn wrote: »

Would a ground invasion by the US be an option? With the help of China and S Korea of course? What about an aerial bombardment? Or is N Korea effectively untouchable?

Why would China support the US ?

Why would China need to invade ?
Back in February they stopped importing coal which cut off a huge chunk of North Korea's source of hard currency.

Why would China invade They play the long game, there's no Mid Term elections. Since they still have the option of cutting off food exports they don't even need to lift a finger.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/13/world/asia/china-north-korea-trade-coal-nuclear.html

cnocbui

I wonder if it might not be an idea for The US to propose to China that they jointly dismantle North Korea, allow South Korea to unify with it as Germany did with East Germany after the fall, and in return, the US makes a binding commitment to pull all troops out of South Korea and to reduce the strength of it's alliance with them and to also timetable a withdrawal of it's troops from Japan in the near future if China sticks to the bargain of not messing. Perhaps a slight reduction of China's ridiculous maritime claims could see an agreement there as a sweetener.

China gets to be good guy, and gets' the US out of it's neck of the woods, Korea is unified and the potential refugee problem evaporates, Trump gets his US pull-back from being the world's big stick and a serious threat to stability in the region is eliminated for good. The only loser would be one spoiled, fat petulant child.

Elmer Blooker

I have a feeling that if the US attacks N.Korea the films of adoring crowds cheering Kim Jong-un may not have to be faked anymore.

cnocbui

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

I'd be worried for the civilians if there was ever a move on north Korea. I could see Kim slaughtering his own people. 'if I can't have it, you can't' attitude.

The Chinese would not want north Koreans streaming over either.

It's not always quite that easy or straight forward when you order your troops to shoot their own mothers, fathers, siblings, girlfriends and acquaintances.

Capt'n Midnight

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

If North Korea is carrying out nuclear fission they are not idiots.

Fission is easy, just get a big enough heap of uranium and away you go.

The first nuclear reactor was just naturally occurring uranium surrounded by graphite blocks.


To make atomic bombs there's two routes. Uranium bombs which are very easy to make but take a lot of energy to do isotope separation (South Africa did this) OR plutonium bombs which require lots of fuel reprocessing and are very tricky to detonate. Of course plutonium bombs are easy if you can get the plans and can import specialist trigger components (Israel did this)



India and Pakistan have gone to war and didn't use their nukes. North Korea knows that they can't attack anyone with nukes and hope to survive the backlash.

Capt'n Midnight

A Little Pony wrote: »

I hope the US has invasion plans in place like Normandy. Its a matter of time.

Wait until the 90% of the army is fighting the Russians and then try to sneak in , but get caught on the beach because of bad planning compared to your allies who have it much easier ?

The_Valeyard

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I have a feeling that if the US attacks N.Korea the films of adoring crowds cheering Kim Jong-un may not have to be faked anymore.

And the exact opposite could happen, once the veil comes down, the country may not be as United behind dear leader as we are lead to believe.

rossie1977

A preemptive strike or invasion of north Korea would result in a situation a million times worse than what happened in waco Texas.

Laois_Man

cnocbui wrote: »

I already addressed the debate part in referencing Putin's proven track record of lying at will. It never occurred to me to consider that someone might actually pay any attention to anything Assad might say or give it credence, I have to admit.

The two of them are busy contradicting each other quite nicely in their stories, so those two cancelling each other out leaves the truth as the remainder.

Did you also go to any effort to reference the proven track record of Donald Trump's lying at will?

Gatling

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I have a feeling that if the US attacks N.Korea the films of adoring crowds cheering Kim Jong-un may not have to be faked anymore.

Imagine that would leave only Mugabe ,Assad and putin to dealt with

FionnK86

Best hope for a peaceful resolution is for;

1. US to bribe top ranking officials who are already in danger within the regime.
2. Stage a small mutiny, and when situation escalates...
3. Force a UN invasion, with support of China and Russia to secure nuclear arsenal and stabilize regime

Russia/China see Kim Jong-Un as stable despite the media reporting, however they would not be happy with a bunch of new faces running the show, and would quickly intervene to stop the US getting too much power over a new regime.

A moderate communist regime supported by China is the only way forward for North Korean people. Too much democracy too soon would not be any good, just look at Iraq.

cnocbui

Laois_Man wrote: »

Did you also go to any effort to reference the proven track record of Donald Trump's lying at will?

No, he makes Putin look like an amateur.

skankkuvhima

I think some people on this thread need to grow up a bit and realize we are talking about serious issues. Just because Donald Trump said something that hurt your feelings doesn't mean it's ok for Kim-Jong Un to have weapons of mass destruction

It's a bit tiresome tbh

cnocbui

rossie1977 wrote: »

A preemptive strike or invasion of north Korea would result in a situation a million times worse than what happened in waco Texas.

And yet also infinitely preferable to having NK nuke Seoul or Tokyo. Wouldn't it be lovely if the present circumstances were not as dire and as serious as they are?

cnocbui

Gatling wrote: »

Imagine that would leave only Mugabe ,Assad and putin to dealt with

House of Saud?

bear1

archer22 wrote: »

China does not give a fock about America and will not be dictated to by them..if it comes to war they will support North Korea.

And China has the technology to sink that piddly little carrier group in a few hours

I'll nominate this the most delusional post on this thread.
Worlds biggest and most advanced navy.. piddly.

Gatling

cnocbui wrote: »

House of Saud?

Definitely add to the list , should be top of the list actually

The_Valeyard

Gatling wrote: »

Definitely add to the list , should be top of the list actually

Id put them around 3rd.


Plenty of African warlords remain and one European despot left to deal with in Belarus. But yeah, the list is slowly going down. All the old boys club is gone, Saddam, Gadaffi, Castro, Idi Aman, Marcos, to name a few.

But there is a point to be made that people need to out personal opinions about Trump aside when dealing with an issue like North Korea.

SeanW

The_Valeyard wrote: »

But there is a point to be made that people need to out personal opinions about Trump aside when dealing with an issue like North Korea.

The Left is not capable of this.

KenjiOdo

Dubh Linn wrote: »

They say the Korean war ended in the 50's. In my opinion, it is still ongoing.

No a ceasefire exists at most, north and south are still at war. Hence the DMZ, acts as a buffer zone between the two nations any military personnel entering the DMZ is to be shot on site...

Luggnuts

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Explain how someone who keeps millions of people in labour camps and does nothing to better the situation of their own populace is the better of two evils?

Millions of people in labour camps? So how many million out of curiosity?

archer22

archer22 wrote: »

China does not give a fock about America and will not be dictated to by them..if it comes to war they will support North Korea.

And China has the technology to sink that piddly little carrier group in a few hours

Yeah, now China has had a taste of democracy and progress and western values, sure OBVIOUSLY they'll hitch their fortunes to a totalitarian despot in North Korea and a regime where millions ate grass to avoid starvation. And to seal this Great Leap Backwards into isolation, they'll take on the US militarily.