Is Marriage to much of a risk ?

Ayuntamiento

kuntboy wrote: »

It is high time the entire divorce/defacto laws were changed. Women are not entitled to 50%+ of a mans money, for any reason. In fact you are entitled to jack 5hit.

The fact that you "gave up the best years of your life" or your career to "look after the kids" or whatever is irrelevant. Men should be liable for child support and nothing else. Go out and get a job like everyone else.

Hey, you wanted equality, you got it.

It's very difficult to get a job after you've been out of the workforce for many years.
Which is why I think I'll always keep my hand in when it comes to working outside the home.
Do you not think that your wife staying at home to look after your children has provided a service beyond anything that you could afford if she had monetised its value?

Btw there's an increasing number of men who are staying at home with their kids nowadays because (shock horror) their wives out-earn them.

Ayuntamiento

DukeOfTheSharp wrote: »

Marriage doesn't really mesh with me to be honest, mostly because in my family, divorce is the norm and relationships rarely last. I chock that up to the relatively unhealthy family life we had growing up, same with our various cousins, basically one side of the family is a mess when it comes to marriage.

Couple that with the fact that over the years my health has been...well, awful, and I fear that I may pass that down genetically to a child, to the point where I genuinely don't want children who'd have to live through the hell I did, and you've got a one-two punch of BS that makes it difficult to commit to something long-term without the prospect of marriage. I get the appeal, I honestly do, but I've always maintained that the moment you start having arguments about what colour curtains to put in the kitchen, love has died and it's all over.

I'm sorry about your health issues. Children don't really interest me so I doubt I'll ever have any. It wasn't an issue with my husband. Marriage doesn't have to involve children.
My parents had a truely horrible marriage and I grew up wishing my mother would leave my father. It definitely tainted my view of marriage when I was younger and I never thought I'd settle down with anybody.
In fact I look at most of the marriages in my mother's family and they were all miserable or even downright toxic to some extent.
However I believe that was the result of a culture of marrying young, before you had a chance to live together or get to know each other, no sex before marriage, etc etc.
All this is why I'm genuinely shocked that I ended up in such a happy marriage. I had no other happy, functioning relationship to model it on. So don't ever give up on the idea that somebody could come along and change your prejudices completely.

failinis

DukeOfTheSharp wrote: »

Marriage doesn't really mesh with me to be honest, mostly because in my family, divorce is the norm and relationships rarely last. I chock that up to the relatively unhealthy family life we had growing up, same with our various cousins, basically one side of the family is a mess when it comes to marriage.

Couple that with the fact that over the years my health has been...well, awful, and I fear that I may pass that down genetically to a child, to the point where I genuinely don't want children who'd have to live through the hell I did, and you've got a one-two punch of BS that makes it difficult to commit to something long-term without the prospect of marriage. I get the appeal, I honestly do, but I've always maintained that the moment you start having arguments about what colour curtains to put in the kitchen, love has died and it's all over.

The same with me, I was warned this year to never get pregnant as complications from a genetic disorder may make me bleed out far too easily - plus the whole "you could pass this on to a child" issue.
Marriage is not = children either to be fair - I am not maternal so I can't say I am too upset at the above personally.

Also gay marriage is illegal in NI still, if I marry in ROI or in England then if I return home its not counted as a marriage etc so thats a balls up.
Someone did mention living together for 5yrs or so means the property rights and similar do fall into place though with is good.

I don't want someone to be my "carer" either, wasting their life by obligation if I continue to get worse as is predicted.

I can't say a lot of my family sides have marriage issues, but my parents have/had (are the separated or together again I don't keep track anymore).
Just cut your losses and get out or stick through it.
Wanted my mum to leave him but she always took him back. I want both to be happy, but if thats them together or apart, that is for them to decide.

MadDog76

MadDog76 wrote: »

I'm married ......... very happily married ......... and I kind of feel sorry for anybody who never gets to experience how that feels.

I feel sorry for anybody who has such a narrow view of other people's lives, lives you know nothing about. It's not for any of us to assume what is the "right" or "wrong" way to be.
Try being a little more open minded and accepting that other people are different to you.

Ayuntamiento

I remember reading a gossip magazine in the doctors a few years ago and there was a feature on some coronation street actress who'd just had a baby with her footballer boyfriend.
The interviewer asked her did they have any plans to get engaged. Her response was 'oh we're not ready for that level of commitment yet but it's definitely something that we'll think about down the line'
They have a child together for the rest of enternity but marriage is too big a commitment!! 😂

Marriage is too much of a risk if done early in my opinion..

My girlfriend and I didn't slip out of honeymoon period until like three and a half years in or something and then it took some time and work to change what we had so we'd last long term. Had we been married, we'd have divorced like so many of our friends.

I reckon we'll get married after 8-10 years together because it will make certain things easier but by then, the "risk" is far lower than a proposal after two years and a marriage a year later.

Lia_lia

I never really wanted to to get married, it's only since I've got a bit older that it's making sense. The idea of a big wedding sounds like a nightmare though. Would never be into that.

I have friends who were with their partners for 1 to 2 years and have got engaged. Never really understood this. I don't know how you can know you want to marry someone after 1 or 2 years, especially when you don't live together. But I guess it's common in other countries.

I've been with my boyfriend for 4 years but it still seems way too soon to be getting married. I guess it depends on age too.

intheclouds

I love being married!

it's basically hanging with my best pal and having a great laugh everyday.

We often joke we'd be banned from being in the same nursing home cos we set each other off on the giggles too much.

minikin

Yes it's too much of a risk, unless both of you would be perfectly happy living together unmarried.
If one party insists on it then don't do it, being married won't make you a better couple or give you a stronger relationship.

We were happy together six years, with a fantastic daughter and I got the "we have to get married" pressure from her nibs and her family (her father was ill at the time). So we did 'the right thing', committed all sorts of money to the big day (both of us were actually made redundant just before the wedding) everything went downhill two months after the wedding, expectations were raised with the marriage that everything would be fantastic afterwards... cue four years of misery and now separation.

I have lost everything, put all my effort and resources into the family, home and relationship which I have been unceremoniously evicted from and the motivation to improve the situation is gone as her hand will be out for more if I do so.

Now I'm not saying it's a bad idea to get married but...

Malari

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

For me, it wasn't. We were together 9 years before we decided to get married, two months later we had our ideal low-key wedding with 20 people. I love being married to him. But I'd never presume to tell other people that marriage is the only way to go. It works for us, that's all.

Us too. Small wedding after 10 years together. There was a health scare and a significant purchase and we thought being married would just protect the other person in case anything happened to either of us.

I'm a solitary person and he's the only person, including friends and family, that I have any interest in being around for extended periods of time. I enjoy his company immensely.

But there's no template. What works for one couple is not going to work for the next.

Ayuntamiento

minikin wrote: »

Yes it's too much of a risk, unless both of you would be perfectly happy living together unmarried.
If one party insists on it then don't do it, being married won't make you a better couple or give you a stronger relationship.

We were happy together six years, with a fantastic daughter and I got the "we have to get married" pressure from her nibs and her family (her father was ill at the time). So we did 'the right thing', committed all sorts of money to the big day (both of us were actually made redundant just before the wedding) everything went downhill two months after the wedding, expectations were raised with the marriage that everything would be fantastic afterwards... cue four years of misery and now separation.

I have lost everything, put all my effort and resources into the family, home and relationship which I have been unceremoniously evicted from and the motivation to improve the situation is gone as her hand will be out for more if I do so.

Now I'm not saying it's a bad idea to get married but...

It sounds to me like money was the thing that put an end to your relationship, not marriage.
You obviously have very different attitudes about how to manage it since she wanted the extravagant wedding that you could ill-afford. And then the stress of redundancy and having basically no money.
The other thing that jumps out at me is your interfering in-laws. And the fact that your partner sided with them over you.
These are the issues that broke you up surely?
There seems to be lots of stories of big expensive weddings resulting in marriages not working out.
My wedding cost less than €1,000 and I have a very happy marriage. It probably helps that we didn't start our married life in tons of debt.

minikin

Ayuntamiento wrote: »

It sounds to me like money was the thing that put an end to your relationship, not marriage.
You obviously have very different attitudes about how to manage it since she wanted the extravagant wedding that you could ill-afford. And then the stress of redundancy and having basically no money.
The other thing that jumps out at me is your interfering in-laws. And the fact that your partner sided with them over you.
These are the issues that broke you up surely?
There seems to be lots of stories of big expensive weddings resulting in marriages not working out.
My wedding cost less than €1,000 and I have a very happy marriage. It probably helps that we didn't start our married life in tons of debt.

I'm not looking for a post-mortem but thanks for your suggestions - they're completely wrong as it happens. We were back on our feet financially within weeks of the wedding... the issue was, as I said, raised expectations.

Wibbs

minikin wrote: »

If one party insists on it then don't do it, being married won't make you a better couple or give you a stronger relationship.

+1. Any extra pressure adds to what risks there are. From my observations the general patterns seem to be: Long pre marriage relationship is better. Ditto for engagement. "Panic buying" in people's thirties is often a disaster. Whether that be a public it's all over disaster or long standing private one(the latter being much worse). The "I want children, so let's rush through the Honeymoon period, get engaged, married and down to procreation" trajectory. I've personally seen those kind of relationships fail at a far higher rate than first love married at 20 relationships. Getting hitched on the back of a pregnancy, "surprise" or not is another extra pressure. Very different backgrounds/cultures/ages/intelligence/relationship attitudes(some men and women just aren't built for them IMH) would be other pressures.

Obviously these would be generalisations of course and plenty with some or even all of the above go on to be successful, but the risk is higher. Depends on background culture and laws too. EG marriage is demonstrably and statistically a higher risk in say America or Sweden where separation and divorce stats are higher than in Ireland. Even then it is, contrary to popular, the minority who get divorced.

pilly

Been there done that once, would I do it again? It was a failure for both of us but that's not to say it wouldn't work with someone else. Honestly, I don't know.

Never say never I suppose but you do get to a stage where it's difficult to see yourself answering to someone every day. I can make a plan for this evening without consulting anyone and that's a great feeling. On the other hand it can be lonely but I'm lucky in having my children whom I know will always be around (barring death).

I have to say I would be full of regret now if I didn't have children. At the end of the day it's good to have someone who loves you unconditionally and whom you love unconditionally. Some people can get that from their parents or siblings I suppose but I never have.

RobertKK

Public state/civil marriage is an outdated concept, and law has replaced 'till death do us depart' with 'till divorce do us depart'.
People basically lie on their wedding day, given 'till death do us depart' has no legal standing and people can be unknowingly or maybe even knowingly lying to their supposed loved one as they say their vows.

I can't see myself ever being or wanting to be in this institution.

Ayuntamiento

minikin wrote: »

I'm not looking for a post-mortem but thanks for your suggestions - they're completely wrong as it happens. We were back on our feet financially within weeks of the wedding... the issue was, as I said, raised expectations.

Yeah it's good to keep those expectations nice and low 😄

kunst nugget

I got married 13 years ago to my wife at the age of 25 which I know many would think as madness here but we'd already known each other 5 years and lived together for 4. It could have gone tits up and I'm sure for a lot of other couples it would have but we are stronger together now than we were back then. We have weathered every storm and come out the other side closer than before. She knows all my worst aspects and still loves me unconditionally as I love her. We don't take each other for granted and we are honest and open if things are getting to us rather than bottling it up. They were lessons hard learned tbf but it means nothing ever festers between us.

Is marriage too much of a risk? Possibly… I can't speak from the point of view of a person that's lost it all like minikin above and truth be told if I wasn't married myself that's a story that would put me off big time. I could say that I'm lucky but I think we've both worked at the relationship and both of us have picked up the slack at various times because we know that we work best together. Don't enter into marriage unless you truly know the other person has got your back and you've got theirs and that both of you are willing to work through the good times and the bad.

osarusan

Serious question here - what are these raised expectations people are talking about?

I mean, for people together for a few years, who have children together even...in what way were expectations raised?

pilly

osarusan wrote: »

Serious question here - what are these raised expectations people are talking about?

I mean, for people together for a few years, who have children together even...in what way were expectations raised?

I was wondering that? How would it change expectations?

kunst nugget

RobertKK wrote: »

Public state/civil marriage is an outdated concept, and law has replaced 'till death do us depart' with 'till divorce do us depart'.
People basically lie on their wedding day, given 'till death do us depart' has no legal standing and people can be unknowingly or maybe even knowingly lying to their supposed loved one as they say their vows.

I can't see myself ever being or wanting to be in this institution.

That's a pretty pedantic reason to be against the institution of marriage.

kunst nugget

osarusan wrote: »

Serious question here - what are these raised expectations people are talking about?

I mean, for people together for a few years, who have children together even...in what way were expectations raised?

I'd wager that one side had an idea of how mature married people should behave and goals that they should achieve that didn't chime with what the other thought which created conflict.

intheclouds

RobertKK wrote: »

Public state/civil marriage is an outdated concept, and law has replaced 'till death do us depart' with 'till divorce do us depart'.
People basically lie on their wedding day, given 'till death do us depart' has no legal standing and people can be unknowingly or maybe even knowingly lying to their supposed loved one as they say their vows.

I can't see myself ever being or wanting to be in this institution.

Outdated how?

There's still billions of people doing it worldwide in vastly different societies.

What's the more up to date thing to be doing?

kunst nugget

intheclouds wrote: »

Outdated how?

There's still billions of people doing it worldwide in vastly different societies.

What's the more up to date thing to be doing?

Phone sex. It's all the rage…

minikin

Her raised expectations:

That we would no longer have to work together (practically, emotionally, financially) in every sense to keep the relationship improving.

Some people think that the marriage is the end goal, at which point you can stop trying and the other person has to accept it because they are now your husband.

Some people think they are owed a lifestyle now that they have married you.

Some people just think being married is going to make them happier because of all the effort they put in to the big day... it's like christmas... sometimes the time when all the decorations are taken down can be the lowest of the year because you realise the fuss is over, the attention is gone.

Sometimes the realisation that 'this is it', this is what I have for the rest of my days can make some feel regret... it's the foreverness of the commitment than can freak some out.

I really should have listened to the alarm bells when the pre-marital course I suggested was refused out of hand, live and learn!

nice_guy80

Marriage is promoted in the state as per tax laws and inheritance laws

It's a protection for both parties in a long term relationship as far as I can see

osarusan

minikin wrote: »

Her raised expectations:

That we would no longer have to work together (practically, emotionally, financially) in every sense to keep the relationship improving.

Some people think that the marriage is the end goal, at which point you can stop trying and the other person has to accept it because they are now your husband.

Some people think they are owed a lifestyle now that they have married you.

Some people just think being married is going to make them happier because of all the effort they put in to the big day... it's like christmas... sometimes the time when all the decorations are taken down can be the lowest of the year because you realise the fuss is over, the attention is gone.

Sometimes the realisation that 'this is it', this is what I have for the rest of my days can make some feel regret... it's the foreverness of the commitment than can freak some out.

I really should have listened to the alarm bells when the pre-marital course I suggested was refused out of hand, live and learn!

Thanks for that.

It still seems strange to me that somebody who had been in a relationship with somebody else for a few years would actually expect things to be drastically different after a wedding - they're exactly the same people they were before they got married.

If you're comfortable answering - do you think that your relationship would have continued to be strong if you had never got married, or do you think you might have run into these problems down the line anyway (no longer needing to work on the relationship, being owed a living, etc)?

kunst nugget

osarusan wrote: »

It still seems strange to me that somebody who had been in a relationship with somebody else for a few years would actually expect things to be drastically different after a wedding - they're exactly the same people they were before they got married.

Ah, I've definitely heard of people who think their partner will magically change once the ring is on the finger. Children is the big one as far as I can see. Someone who has zero interest in making babies is somehow going to be besotted with the notion of having a child when their partner has them married.

osarusan

kunst nugget wrote: »

Ah, I've definitely heard of people who think their partner will magically change once the ring is on the finger. Children is the big one as far as I can see. Someone who has zero interest in making babies is somehow going to be besotted with the notion of having a child when their partner has them married.

Yeah, I see this too, but I'd imagine that this will eventually bubble to the surface, marriage or no marriage.

I mean, if somebody is just waiting to get married so they can stop making an effort, they'll eventually stop making an effort anyway, or else get fed up waiting to get married.

I can understand a drastic change when a couple haven't been together that long and don't have kids, or don't even live together, and their relatively carefree lives are replaced by kids and a mortgage - but for people who were already together years and had kids...I wonder why they expected things to change.

minikin

Thanks for your questions, I'm sorry that any of this seems strange to you.
I can't answer on behalf of my ex, whom I still care about, regarding what might have been her perspective. From my perspective I had always been clear that I never felt the need for a marriage - children yes - in maintaining a mutually loving and respectful relationship. It seems to be that people are less inclined to take their partner for granted if the only bond they have holding them together is their treatment of each other, their performance as such. It is in both their interests to treat each other as they want to be treated.

Reminds me of employment, if you work in the private sector you are motivated to perform to your utmost otherwise you get dropped... marriage would be more like the public sector where you can do what you like and are protected by the system and the union (of marriage).... who wants to join a union for feck sake.

intheclouds

minikin wrote: »

Thanks for your questions, I'm sorry that any of this seems strange to you.
I can't answer on behalf of my ex, whom I still care about, regarding what might have been her perspective. From my perspective I had always been clear that I never felt the need for a marriage - children yes - in maintaining a mutually loving and respectful relationship. It seems to be that people are less inclined to take their partner for granted if the only bond they have holding them together is their treatment of each other, their performance as such. It is in both their interests to treat each other as they want to be treated.

Reminds me of employment, if you work in the private sector you are motivated to perform to your utmost otherwise you get dropped... marriage would be more like the public sector where you can do what you like and are protected by the system and the union (of marriage).... who wants to join a union for feck sake.

I can't really agree with the logic here. Relationships can end easily and so can marriages, as you have found out. Being married is no guarantee of staying together anymore. Back in the day before we had divorce maybe but not now.